xjwsforChrist

Lots of talk about it over at JWN. Article after article of... well, as one poster put it...



To which, I added:


One poster astutely asked:


Interesting times in WT land...

I noticed this, very telling. They are really tightening the rope and also appealing to the doomsday GT hype people love. You must obey the organization even if the GB are imperfect. You must not associate with disfellowshipped family members, look what happed to Aaron's sons. You could be burned up like them if you do.

How are elders appointed now?

So are they tightening the screws?

Elders are going to be appointed by COs directly starting September 1.

From one of the articles (emphasis mine):


Why, yes, obedience to Christ = obedience to the organization

Jesus' Kingdom started 100 years ago. But Jesus went to pee and forgot to return!

Now he is back (what a loooooooong pee!) and is directing the GB that is radiating with bright new light!

Every new issue f the WatchTurd will get brighter and brighter!

and here too OUTLAW!! LOL!! Especially HERE!

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

Makes one ponder if ones consistent phone calls addressing and targeting the issue of active online elders, and many active baptized jws, co-mingling, volunteering with apostate groups, as active baptized jws, and then going to the kh and wearing such a foull mask in disguise....has, perhaps just a smigeon of a relation to gb trying to tighten up their petrified balls and get a grip on their spiritual rape of children inside their filthy whoreganization.

Too, I find myself pondering the results of the reactions I will no doubt bring forth when I find this elder at the meeting this sunday. I'd love to get a first-hand idea on just what an active elder DOES online....you know, the ones not on sites like these.

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

More from this AWFUL November 15, 2014 Watchtower Magazine issue: Scare Tactics galore to make them think the end is near and they must obey listen and be blessed.

Spiritual face palm (mornin' and peace to you, all!).

This just... I mean... ya'll know I have low tolerance for inexcusable ignorance... and this smacks of it. Because UNLESS each CO so appointing "elders" is "anointed" HIMSELF (i.e., has received holy spirit), just on what BASIS have they "authority" TO appoint? ANYONE? Over ANYTHING? Even the dang Apostles had to have the approval of Christ and assistance of holy spirit to help choose/appoint THEIR helpers (and NOT religious leaders but merely men who oversaw the distribution of food and other goods to widows and orphans. If for helpers in the distribution of PHYSICAL food... HOW MUCH MORE SO... in the distribution of SPIRITUAL food?????????).

BUT... the JW ranks can't "see" it. Nope. Can't see that these are ALL charlatans and imposters, POSING as "reverent men", leading them. MISleading them. Can't see it... because they are not just asleep, but COMATOSE. Because ANYONE with even the REMOTEST sense of logic... would see the SCAM in this. They SHOULD have seen the scam in the PREVIOUS "arrangement" (how does holy spirit appoint men who lie, cheat, scam, rape, molest... or worse... OVER God's belongings??!!!).

The GB can (falsely) claim that it is by the "authority" given THEM (sure, right!)... and the "holy spirit" THEY have (sure, right)... which they "have given" to such men (sure, right)... that allows it. BUT... LOGIC asks: HOW CAN YOU GIVE SOMEONE HOLY SPIRIT... and they NOT BE "ANOINTED"... BY such spirit... TOO?? How can one RECEIVE holy spirit (and I mean this as to these "COs" as WELL as "elders"... now AND before)... and not BE... ANOINTED?? How does that WORK??

It doesn't. And it's not just a lie... it is absolutely blasphemy. Because it is saying Christ, the Holy Spirit, has done something... by means OF God's holy spirit... that he has NOT. And has NOT been done BY such spirit!

And so I have to pray for long-suffering and love as to these people. Because if it were left to me, I'd have NO alternative but to think nothing more than that they're ALL so frickin' DUMB. STOOPID... if they believe these men have any authority. Heck, if they believe the GB has any authority. But... praise JAH, pity won't allow me to think SO badly of them. They ARE naked and pitiable, and miserable... and blind. And... comatose. Not just asleep. DEEP in sleep.

Because this one, this error, this FALSEHOOD... is SO obvious... to those who are awake.

Talk about what SHOULD be a double "ah-HA" and "DUHHHH" moment for them...

Ah, well...

On another note, that picture shocked me a little, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace to you, dear lady!). Because it prompted deja vue for me. It depicts... ALMOST EXACTLY... the place where I first attend Book Study back in the early 1980's! The JWs house that we met in (in the basement! LOLOLOL!), were something like 3rd-4th generation JWs. And they had turned their basement into a kind of "fallout" shelter, stuffed with canned goods, etc., in "preparation" for "Armageddon." Theirs was one of the (primary) designated places that "we" were to go when "Armageddon started."

It wasn't this dank; they had renovated the area and so it included a couple of rooms, at least one that was closed in with pane glass (it was a doll room - a gollymoffrey of dolls, stuff animals, tea sets, etc. - which was, understandably, off limits unless escorted). My understanding at the time... and this picture confirms it for me... was that there were several of these throughout the city.

What comes to mind NOW, though is: here they go, again, yes... BUT... this time they might have reason. A bit premature, yes, but I'm not sure they're entirely wrong, this time. The clock IS ticking... and they WILL be among who say, "Lord, Lord, didn't we... in your name?" to which he will respond to THEM:

"Get AWAY from me YOU workers of LAWLESSNESS. I... NEVER... knew... YOU."

Jehovah's Witnesses. What a comatose group of people. Praise JAH... to have been set free from them... AND their thinking!

Peace to you, all!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

This is a bit of a confusing topic in the Bible. Do appointments of elders in the Bible require holy spirit? I don't have an answer for that because it really isn't directly stated. There are two different Greek words for appoint: cheirotoneó (Strong's 5500) and kathistémi (Strong's 2525). cheirotoneó means "I elect by show of hands, choose by vote, appoint" and HELP Word studies says: "properly, stretch out the hands to commission (send forth)." kathistémi means " I set down, bring down to a place; I set in order, appoint, make, constitute" and HELP Word studies says: "kathístēmi (from 2596 /katá, "down" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – properly, set down (in place), i.e. "put in charge," give standing (authority, status) which enables someone to rule (exercise decisive force)"

In Acts 20:28, where it says "the holy spirit as appointed you as overseers", a different word is used: etheto (Strong's 5087). There are many variations of this word that mean set, placed, purposed, has put, has fixed.

At 2 Cor 8:19, Titus was appointed to be a traveling companion by the congregations. This was apparently by vote, since the word used is cheirotonētheis. However, when Titus was to make appointments (Titus 1:5), this was kathistémi, putting them in charge, not by vote, though.

So, I wonder, is holy spirit always involved in making appointments?

This brings us around to a discussion of laying on of hands, something that I don't fully understand. This seems to be a way to transfer holy spirit from one person to another for some purpose. In some cases, this was done for healing others. In the case of Timothy, the body of elders laid their hands on him. "Do not neglect the gift in you that was given you through a prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you." (1 Tim 4:14) WTBTS does not say this was for being appointed as an elder. They say, instead that he was set apart for a special service, that of being selected to travel with Paul. (Acts 16:3).

As an aside, this, of course, doesn't make sense because, according to WTBTS, the book of Acts was completed in 61 C.E., while 1 Timothy was written sometime between 61 C.E. and 63 C.E. So, this basically would be Paul saying, AFTER THE FACT, not to neglect the gift... of traveling with Paul. Talk about strange logic.

Ok, my head is spinning. Like I said, this is a confusing topic.

BTW, I ended up being automatically logged out before clicking the Submit button. I discovered something. If this happens to you, just click the back button as it will bring you back to your post. Then you can copy it to your clipboard, log back in and paste it. At least this works in Firefox.

It can be, yes... if one relies on (1) the interpretations of men, and (2) the false "stylus" of the scribes, dear LQ (peace to you, dear one!). I am glad it has come up, though, as it offers opportunity for me to share what I received from our dear Lord on it. I do not say that to invoke "higher" authority... or push MY "truth" over others... but simply because it is true: it is not mine, I did not conceive it or make it up, but received it from him. To say or let others think otherwise would be deceitful, if not blasphemy. In that light:



No... and yes. No, in that elders aren't appointed, per se. The "older" men weren't necessarily older. By "older" men, those who used such term in the early Body meant those who had walked with our dear Lord THE LONGEST. Those who had been with him, LITERALLY, and so had first hand (or just past that) knowledge. ALL of these received holy spirit... the Apostles first (John 20:22), then the others... when they were present in the upper room on Pentecost 30 CE, as our dear Lord GAVE them that spirit (Acts 2:1-4).

Yes... when appointing men... WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY "ELDERS"... to "oversee" the PHYSICAL care of the Body. Indeed, only men WITH holy spirit were so APPOINTED:

"In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Greek Jews among them complained against the Hebrew Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together and said, “It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to serve tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”

"This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and holy spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them." Acts 6:1-6

If you see here, these men already had holy spirit, so they did not receive it by the laying on of hands (which I will get to in a sec). But they were not appointed to LEAD anyone; as Paul wrote, "NOT that WE are masters over YOUR faith." They were appointed to ensure that the distribution of the food, clothing, money, and other items DONATED... by those who HAD... were FAIRLY distributed among those who did NOT have:

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord [Jesus]. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

"Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet." Acts 4:32-36

So, the "OVERSEERS" that the WTBTS lay claim to, were NOT men who taught or lead others spiritually, per SE. They were those men, FILLED with holy spirit... who were appointed to OVERSEE... the DAILY DISTRIBUTION (to the widows and orphans!). And not all of them were "elders" (those who had walked with Christ personally, or had been his disciple for a "long" time) but some were more recently converted and recipients of holy spirit.



It isn't directly stated, no. However, we have examples that show us that it is not NEEDED (Christ, granting it to the apostles, those in the upper room at Pentecost, Saul of Tarsus)... AND examples that show were it was done, including as to Timothy... and the 12 men mentioned at Acts 19:1-7.

I have received from my Lord that it is NOT necessary to lay hands for the receipt of holy spirit and that rather than have folks come to any of US to receive holy spirit... or to any apostle, etc.,... we SHOULD tell folks they need ONLY go to HIM, DIRECTLY. As he SAID:

"Come to ME... ALL you who are loaded down and toiling!"

and "Drink from ME!" [John 7:37-39[/b]

True, he has given his servants AUTHORITY to dispense that same spirit... but one with FAITH doesn't have to receive it second hand.



Okay.



Overseers over WHAT, though? Again, we are told that it was over the distribution (of food, etc.). The false interpretations of MEN, however, have changed the meaning of the Greek word "poimainō" from the intent of feeding PHYSICALLY, to feeding SPIRITUALLY. But John, who was one of the 12, clarified THAT, when he wrote, as to those who even DEIGNED to "feed" them spiritually:

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him." 1 John 2:26-27



That doesn't mean holy spirit wasn't involved, though, right? Not saying it WAS... but rather, perhaps the wrong Greek word is used here, due to a lack of understanding on the part of the scribes...



Doesn't mean holy spirit WAS involved. Don't forget, Paul had a LOT of ego going on... and a rather "take charge" persona, due to his former Pharisaical education and involvement... and made a LOT of mistakes. Including HIS "instructions" to the CORINTHIANS, which he had to "eat." Even so, what was Titus to make appointments FOR? Again, "overseers." And in this case we can absolutely know that it was over the distribution. How? The "criteria" stated by Paul. Why? Because HONESTY and UPRIGHTNESS was CRITICAL... to avoid theft, corruption, deceit, unfairness. These men were put in charge not only of food and other items to be distributed to the needy, but the money and goods of those who'd DONATED them! Imagine what would be said about... and what could be DONE to... ALL christians... if it turned out the men who were given such wealth to oversee on behalf of others turned out to be THIEVES and CHARLATANS, etc.? Those who were opposed to the Body would have had a FIELD day... and FODDER... to further persecute them! Even have them (all) killed! Some were LOOKING for reason to DO so! So, such men HAD to be irreproachable, in ALL aspects! There could not be ANY cause for even a THOUGHT of concern!



When the Apostles made such appointments, yes. They really didn't do ANYTHING or make ANY major decisions without holy spirit. Paul, on the other hand, made all manner of "decisions"... on his own and from his own thinking. Which is what caused much of the original division between him and most of the 12 (besides the fact that he had been a MAJOR former persecuter himself!). Paul was young when he started out, though, and brought a LOT of his Pharisaical training and background baggage with him. If you read his letters in chronological order, however... at least, those we have record of (as at least one, his first to the Corinthians, but my understanding is several... is missing).



It is a way, yes. But it is not the ONLY way... nor even a NECESSARY way. Contrary to the teaching of the RCC/Catholic Church. No one laid their hands on ME, except my Lord himself. And actually, it wasn't his hands... but his breath.



Yes! And resurrecting. And "choosing"...



The "gift"... was HOLY SPIRIT, luv. Now, what his "WORK" was to be as a RESULT of that gift, what he was to DO with that spirit... OR how HE was to be USED now that he HAD it (i.e., as a traveling companion, distribution overseer, ministerial servant (which also included women!)... would have been by the leading of holy spirit... IF the Apostles were involved. By this time, with Paul, too.



Dude. It's the WTBTS. Whad'ya want?



Smile. Our dear Lord has given me a scripture to share with you, that the early Body understood, which is why the Apostles... James... and those filled WITH holy spirit... would have DEFERRED to holy spirit when making decisions:

"Trust in JAH... with ALL your heart and do NOT lean upon your own understanding. In ALL your ways take notice of HIM... and HE will make your path straight."

Having walked... or grown up... with Christ, the Apostles, James, and those before Paul would have known this. Paul had to learn it... and that didn't occur overnight. If decisions are made otherwise, one is standing on one's own. As Paul often did... not only to his ultimate detriment (remember, he was WARNED... BY a man with holy spirit... to NOT go into a certain city, yet he ignored that warning and went!)... but almost to the demise of at least one congregation (Corinthian).

If we have faith in Christ, however, REAL faith... such that we listen to HIS voice and not MAN's... we will do not just as he SAID... but as he DID: NOTHING... of his OWN initiative, but ONLY that which he saw the FATHER doing or the FATHER told/taught him.

Do you SEE, luv?



Works in Google Chrome, too!

Anyway, I hope what I shared helps, luv. I realize it doesn't answer specifically, but hopefully I've shared enough to give you a basis to go to our dear Lord... and ask whatever ADDITIONAL questions you feel you need to so AS to understand... FULLY!

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Most of what you say makes sense. The only part I question is this:



It seems like overseers were given the responsibility to teach, also, having to hold firmly to wholesome teachings and sound doctrine. Much of it was so that they could refute those who would oppose, but also to encourage others. In addition to overseers, there were to be deacons (ministerial servants). I have no idea what these are as the Bible does not say.

Now, with all of this said, I just went back and re-read 1 Timothy. Again. Probably for the third or fourth time inside of a year. I never got the big picture of it until now. I still might not have it all, but I am once again astounded at how WTBTS cherry picks and distorts this entire letter.

Contrary to Paul's comment as to some given as teachers... there were [to be] no teachers. How do we know? Because... CHRIST... said there wasn't to be. BECAUSE:

"you have one Teacher" (or "ONE is your teacher") Matthew 23:8

The ONLY teacher was... and is... Christ. If we test "PAUL's" words as to this matter, then... they fail... when held up against Christ's words (and on more issues than just this). In this matter, Paul is the liar ("Let GOD be found TRUE, though EVERY man a liar"). If we test JOHN's words, though, that those who've received an anointing don't need ANYONE to be teaching them... because the ANOINTING (with holy spirit) teaches them... they stand... when held up to Christ's words. Yes?

This is what JOHN meant when he wrote as to those who were trying to MISLEAD the Body. Do YOU... SEE... though? Without the "glasses" of your own paradigms... based on teachings and resultant beliefs you received from MEN? The only way you can is to have the COURAGE to say that Paul... was wrong (on some things). Many of the "older" men and most of the Apostles did, initially. Some of the Corinthian congregation did. Paul's response was to go off on them, even call some "superfine" apostles. But he was wrong, sometimes, too, as some of those were (the "older" men as to circumcision, Peter with his hypocrisy). "Christians" have NO problem saying humans are wrong... imperfect... except when it comes to Paul. For some reason, that dear brother is viewed as infallible... even when HE said he WASN'T! LOLOLOL!



Yikes. How does one know if the "teaching" IS WHOLESOME? Or if the "doctrine" is SOUND? Again, Paul said a lot of things that the Body and Apostles took issue with... AND that he had to eat. So, while SOME, perhaps MUCH of what he said might be reliable, some is NOT. And we can know if it's not... by testing it. Yes? And if it does not comport with what CHRIST said... then we must reject it. Yes? Else... we are followers of PAUL... not followers of CHRIST. Yes?

And Christ told HIS followers, starting with the Apostles, that they were to teach other to OBEY/OBSERVE... ALL the things he had commanded THEM. Wait... he told them to TEACH? Yes... and no. Teach, as in lead/instruct as a leader... no. Teach as in show HOW... by THEIR conduct... yes. By sharing what he had given THEM... yes. But... as BROTHERS. EQUALS. NOT as teachers/leaders.

Why do some put SO much store in Paul? Because they believe him... and the Bible... to be inspired. And he, in EVERYTHING he wrote. Which goes to show, such ones haven't READ the Bible, at least not completely/comprehensively. Because even HE denied that in certain instances. Yet, MANY as TRUE, something HE denied!



Again, we're talking Paul. Who fancied himself and teacher... and taught that others should be. When one has received holy spirit, however, that SPIRIT gives them what to say so as to refute, should that be necessary. How do we know? We test it against Christ, who said:

"Do NOT prepare ahead of time as to what you will say as what you will say... WILL BE GIVEN YOU... when the time comes."

Yes?? So, again... for those who had holy spirit... which meant God and Christ dwelt IN them... why in the WORLD would they need some MEN to teach them?? Again, back to John's words, that those who've received the anointing don't need ANYONE to be teaching them... because that ANOINTING teaches them.

Do we have precedent for that? We do... from the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies Himself. Pay attention to what He said, through His Prophet, Jeremiah:

"... I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares JaHVeH.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares JaHVeH.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know JaHVeH,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares JaHVeH."


It isn't that a day arrives and POOF! all who belong to JAH know Him, luv. They come to KNOW Him... as they come to be IN UNION with Him... as they come to be IN UNION with CHRIST... and so enter into the NEW Covenant. Which NEW Covenant IS JAH putting His law INTO THE MINDS and WRITING IT ON THEIR HEARTS. If HE puts it in their minds and writes it on their hearts... WHAT NEED do they have of someone ELSE... TEACHING them??

Test it, luv. Test that teaching thing.

("But Shelb," some will say, "Aren't YOU a teacher?? NO!!! And if that's what anyone THINKS... then they TRULY have not been paying attention to... or accepting... what I have been saying... for two decades now! I am NOT a teacher. Absolutely NOT. Do I share what I receive from my dear Lord? Yes! Because I am his SERVANT. But I have also shared... HONESTLY... that what I share is NOT mine, but HIS. And that I do it... BECAUSE I LOVE HIM... AND in the hopes that others will go to HIM and receive DIRECTLY FROM HIM, as well! I do not share what I receive so that others will listen to ME - truly, I do not care if others do or don't! I do it out of my love for him... and for who might GO to him, too! That PERHAPS... ones will consider that they, TOO, can SIMILARLY receive... by going DIRECTLY TO HIM!)



"Ministerial servants" were both male and female... and they were those who helped distributed the food, etc., DIRECTLY. The "overseers" would consider WHO had a need... and HOW MUCH they needed... then send the MINISTERIAL SERVANTS to DELIVER it... be it food, clothing, medicinal needs... AS WELL AS TO MINISTER to those who RECEIVED it. By "minister" I mean, helped them... PHYSICALLY... as well as checked on their well-being and reported back any concerns/NEW needs to the "overseers" (so they could prepare for the NEXT distribution!). They would fix things for them. Help them feed/clothe themselves. Clean. Do laundry. Get to meetings (held in homes), if someone was coming through. Heck, get out of bed, if need be. Which is why some... MOST... of them had to be WOMEN. Because the distribution was primarily for WIDOWS (elderly AND young) and orphans (who may have had widowed mothers! And you could NOT have some man visit, say, a single widow, luv. Say, an elderly widow who needed help bating? Surely, a MALE ministerial servant couldn't be sent! Or a young one, with children! Given the penchant for some men as to children, you couldn't just send a man to help a single mother. So there were WOMEN ministerial servants... like Phoebe (Romans 16:1).



And there you GO! In this case, the false stylus of the "scribes" (WTBTS Writing Committee)... ALONG WITH the false teachings of the "Pharisees" (WTBTS GBs... and their DO/CO/Elder minions)! Woe to them... BOTH! LOLOLOL!

Anyway, I hope this helps, dear, dear LQ. You have to be careful, luv. Just because it's included in the Bible doesn't mean God OR Christ taught it, agreed with it, or sanctioned it. As our dear Lord said to me:

"ALL that I tell you IS written, but not ALL that is written is what I will tell you."

He meant that all that he tells me is written... SOMEWHERE... but not necessarily in the Bible, and that not all that is written, including in the Bible... is what he would tell me.

I think you understand. I hope you do.

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Good morning! And, peace to you!



Well, then, no wonder people are so confused as to what the Bible says. It IS full of contradictions. People's excuse, mine included? "While Christ said one thing, it was later clarified by Paul." Yup. That's what I've thought for years and years and years. And now, WTBTS has the audacity to act like Paul and even further "clarify" things by making up whatever it wants. "Oh, yes, we have to preach the good news, but we are also like Jeremiah and Ezekiel, warners of the wicked."



I'm unsure of what you meant by that last sentence? Could you expound, please?



I've heard you say this before. My thought on this is that the producing the Bible canon was a grave disservice. Just briefly reading the history of how the modern Bible came about is a dizzying experience. For the last year or two, I've questioned Paul's comment: "All scripture is inspired of God..." Surely, he could not have meant what we have in the New Testament today. They weren't considered "scripture" at that time. Historians tell us that many collected writings of the apostles were in circulation by the end of the first century, and many people considered them as authoritative. But, were they actually inspired of God? I mean, how do we know? Anyone can say they were inspired of God to write this or that. Doesn't mean it's true (that they were inspired of God, that is.) How do we know?

Us viewing Paul's statement, "All scripture is inspired of God" and thinking that includes the New Testament is as ridiculous as what the WT said in last week's study article. In a consideration of 1 Corinthians 13, this was stated (in the Simplified version):

Paul also said that love “believes all things.” We believe what we read in the Bible and are thankful to be taught by Jehovah’s organization.

Neither the Bible, nor "Jehovah's organization" existed when Paul spoke those words. He definitely did not mean these. Just the same, he definitely did not mean the New Testament when saying "All scripture is inspired of God".

Smile. But people don't HAVE to be confused, luv (mornin' and peace to you!), if they listen TO Christ. Either directly (best), or at least to his recorded words, such as those recorded at John 5:39. 40:

"You search the scriptures because you THINK that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life. And these bear witness about me; yet, you do not want to come to ME that you might have life."

Literal translation: "Searching/studying the scriptures/Bible won't save you. I am the only one who can do that. But you keep looking THERE... instead of coming to ME. Therefore, you are confused... and will remain confused... and WITHOUT life... UNTIL you come to ME. I... am the Way... NO ONE comes to the Father... EXCEPT... THROUGH... ME."

We keep looking to the scriptures/Bible to corroborate Christ and whether what he is recorded to have said is TRUE... rather than looking to CHRIST... to corroborate whether what is written (in the Bible) is true.

The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, did NOT give us the Bible, dear one. MEN gave us the Bible. HE gave us His SON. Hebrews 1:1, 2 Even as to the OLD Law. Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... Joseph... Moses... NONE of these had God's Law written (on stone tablets/paper, in delible ink). ALL of these had the Law written ON THEIR HEARTS. It was UNFAITHFUL Israel... who started out WITHOUT a written Law... whose lack of faith, murmuring, and other demonstration of NOT having the Law written on their hearts... who NEEDED to have it written... spelled out... on STONE... for them. But it is the FORMER ones that we are to be like, them and Moses... and not the UNFAITHFUL people Israel.

The former ones (and Moses) HAD the Law written on their hearts... BY Christ. Because of their faith IN him. Now, some will say, "Wait, Christ hadn't even come yet, so how is it you say they had the Law written by HIM? How could they have even KNOWN him?" Dear one, he is the WORD of JAH. As HE said:

"BEFORE Abraham, I am."

The entire 11th Chapter of the letter to the Hebrews BEARS WITNESS to these and their faith in CHRIST. Thus, as Lazarus wrote of Moses:

"By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward."

Think of it: if Christ is the WORD of God, how could any of these, whom it is recorded had DIRECT communication WITH God... NOT have known Christ?? If "NO ONE come to the Father EXCEPT through (Christ)"... how did THESE do so... WITHOUT Christ in the picture SOMEWHERE??

If one believes CHRIST... has faith in HIM... and what HE says... they COULDN'T have, luv. If what HE said is TRUE, that NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH HIM... it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for them to communicate with the MOST Holy One... WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE HOLY. And so, we have the TABERNACLE and TEMPLE... physical ANTI-TYPES... to SHOW us that, SHOW us how it WORKS.

[Forgive me; I'm not yelling, not at all - just typing fast - LOLOLOL!]



Smile. That's because you were taught, as MOST are... to "follow" PAUL, NOT Christ. Oh, sure, those who taught you such claim you are following Christ BY following Paul. But how can THAT be? If ANYONE, it would have been the Apostles, one of the 12... yes? Paul was not one of the 12, though. How do they get around that? By pushing the FALSE claim that Paul was chosen... for his ZEAL. That is a LIE. Paul was chosen... TO REPLACE STEPHEN.

As a young Saul of Tarsus, Paul was instrumental in having members of the Body turned over for execution. Including Stephen, whose death he directly approved. Stephen, who was no only willing to SUFFER for the sake of the Christ, but die. So, when choosing Paul, our dear Lord told Ananias:

"This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” Acts 9:15, 16

Paul was chosen to BEAR THE SUFFERINGS of Christ, which STEPHEN was willing to bear. Since Stephen had been killed... with PAUL'S approval... Paul was called to take his place. He was NOT called for some imagined "zeal" for the MOST Holy One of Israel. Indeed, he did not KNOW the MOST Holy One... JAH of Armies... because he did not know CHRIST, the HOLY (by means of Whom the MOST Holy IS known):

“Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am [Jesus], whom you are persecuting,” he replied. Acts 9:4, 5


Do you SEE, luv? Much... MOST... of what you "know"... NOT just about Christ, not just about the Bible, but even about PAUL... is not based on TRUTH... but the LIES told to you by "certain men." Those who, long ago, "worked their way" into households... false prophets and false CHRISTS... whose purpose IS to mislead, IF possible, EVEN the chosen ones. They are a scourge, and just as much now as they were when the started... which they did JUST after John died. When the "restraint"... which was the continuing lives of the Apostles... was removed. Once the last Apostle (John) died... these took over and have been wreaking havoc on God's people, the Body of Christ, ever since.

IF, though, we turn BACK... to CHRIST... to the WAY (that IS Christ)... turn our gaze toward HIM, look to/at HIM and NOT take our gaze OFF him... so as to KEEP eyes on HIS face and our ears tuned HIS voice... follow HIM and NOT "strangers"... THEN we can be led... into ALL TRUTH. Not just SOME truth - ALL truth. Including the truth about HIM, and even more, the FATHER. Which truths lead us to understand things like "in the beginning" - the "beginning" of WHAT? What IS the "beginning"? Where did we COME from? Why are we HERE? What REALLY happens when we die? Who is? What is? Why is? Where is? WHEN... is?

ALL truth. NOT just that which relates to the "spirit" realm and things of the SPIRIT... but things of THIS realm - PHYSICAL things. Including science.



Along with her sisters, the OTHER daughters of Babylon the Great, the MOTHER of the harlots. They ALL make up those of whom our dear Lord warned:

"... if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time."

Was he just talking to those of that day, as to the end of the PHYSICAL temple at Jerusalem? NO, luv! He was speaking to ALL of his sheep, the Father's "belongings"... for ALL generations... UNTIL he returns (for us)!



I meant that not only did Paul say he wasn't always inspired (and, truth be told, sometimes he wasn't even though he IMPLIED he was! Does that make him a blasphemer? Not for me to judge - JAH shows mercy to whomever HE wishes... and through Christ granted authority to the 12 to bind/loose. If THEY loosed Paul, who am I to return a judgment? He will have to answer for himself.).

Paul ALSO... WARNED... folks, though... AGAINST following "him", actually took issue with them for DOING so:

"My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

"Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." 1 Corinthians 1:11-17

[It is noteworthy, is it not, in light of Paul's words, here, that some follow Peter/Cephas, indeed, believe the Body of Christ to be built UPON Peter... rather than upon CHRIST? I digress.]

And...

"Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe [in Christ]—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:2-9

Paul recognized he was ONLY a servant (albeit, a kind of demanding one, but THAT was because of ROMAN laws at the time, which the Jews were trying to use to bring CHRISTIANS to prosecution and death! So he often stated things in a way that made it SEEM like it came directly from God... in order to SAVE the lives of some of early Body.).





If you think GOD produced it, yes. But He DIDN'T. HE... sent His SON. HE said listen to His SON. Yes? And if/when we DO that, LISTEN to GOD... and obey HIS command ("This is my son, the beloved - listen to HIM!")... we wouldn't even turn TO, let alone NEED the Bible. Like the gifts of the spirit (i.e., prophesying, tongues, etc.), it is for UNBELIEVERS. Those who DON'T listen/CAN'T hear! Believe me, if everyone LISTENED... to CHRIST... there would be NO need to ever REFER to what he is RECORDED as saying (much, but not all, of which is canonized in the Bible).



EXACTLY! All SCRIPTURE... IS inspired. But what is "scripture"? Everything in the Bible? Including the NT? What did CHRIST consider to be "scripture" (because, remember, he said they were SEARCHING/STUDYING the "writings/scripture"). If we can hear HIM tell us, we have a record of what he DID:

"Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, [Jesus] himself came up and walked along with them; but they were kept from recognizing him.

"He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”

"They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

“What things?” he asked.

“About [Jesus] of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see [Jesus].”

"He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

"As they approached the village to which they were going, [Jesus] continued on as if he were going farther. But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

"When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?” Luke 24:13-32

And...

"While they were still talking about this, [Jesus] himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

"They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

"When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.

"He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

"Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. Luke 24:36-45


As you can see, when he was HERE, the "scriptures" was "Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms." It was NOT the chronologies, histories/records of kings, etc. SCRIPTURE is what men (1) receive WHILE IN SPIRIT ("inspired"), (2) TOLD to write at God's actual direction, as (3) they are borne along by Christ, the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17). In that light, the ONLY "scripture" AFTER Christ was here... is the Revelation given to John. That is the ONLY writing that was written while the writer was in spirit (Revelation 1:10; 4:2)... DIRECTED by God (through Christ) to write (Revelation 1:19)... while he was borne along by Christ, the Holy Spirit, though that one's angel (Revelation 1:1,2 ; 4:1).

ALL of the other NT writings are merely accounts or letters. The accounts (gospels) were to serve as a record in case one was needed (Luke's was for the benefit of Theophilus, not the Body, and was NOT inspired of God but based on the eyewitness accounts of those interviewed BY Luke - Luke 1:1-4; Acts 1:1). The rest, excluding the Revelation, are no different from much of what is shared HERE: intended either as ENCOURAGEMENT (to others with faith/wanting faith)... and/or a public declaration of faith.



One can say, yes. See above.



It is more ignorance than ridiculousness, dear one, although for some of us, given what we know NOW... it is pretty ridiculous, yes.



Excluding the Revelation... YOU GOT IT, luv!!


Now, if you are inclined to say, "Well, now, Shelb, how is it that YOU know, if not FOR the Bible/scriptures, etc.?" my response is that I learned what I am sharing with YOU, from the same One... and in the same way... as those in the early Body: my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... Who is the TRUTH... is the One who "opens" the scriptures to ME. So that I, TOO, will know the truth (about them... and those writings that are NOT scripture). As he did with those dear ones... AND with me, his servant and YOURS... he can do with you. With ANY who ask... HIM... or the Father in his NAME... out of a clean heart. Meaning, with a PURE motive... and not so that they can lift THEMSELVES us as "something"... or use the information for profit... but ONLY for the "building up" of the Body, including oneself.

I hope (all of) that helps, dear, dear LQ, truly! And that perhaps, by means of this information and your progressive reasoning that is leading you to QUESTION what you have been taught by MEN... such will ALSO lead you to have ears to hear when he, the [Holy] Spirit and his Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take (his) LIFE's 'water'... the holy spirit of God, through which the anointing of is used, by His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... to teach YOU... and lead YOU into... ALL truth... so that YOU do not need anyone (else) to be teaching YOU... FREE!"

YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel ("those who seek JAH as their God")... and ALL those who go WITH... and a slave of Christ, the SON of JAH,

Shel