xjwsforChrist

Smile... yes, it is, dear LQ (peace to you, luv!). A hard one for dear Hubby to grasp... until my Lord gave me that verse to show him. If one remembers that our dear Lord himself was the TRUE Passover Lamb... and had to be SLAUGHTERED on the "14th day, between the two evenings," then one will see why he had to do HIS meal the day BEFORE: because he would have already been dead by the time of the actual Passover (he died at 3pm on Nisan 14... when the Passover STARTED).

So, he ate HIS meal... on Nisan 14... BEFORE he was killed as THEIR "lamb" (which was to be eaten on the 15th). If THEIRS was ALSO on Nisan 14... and they ate when HE ate... then they already HAD their Passover Lamb... BEFORE he was killed. Which would mean he WASN'T the Passover Lamb AFTER all... so what would be the POINT of his "sacrificial" death?

While the Passover lamb is SLAUGHTERED on Nisan 14 (anywhere between 3-6pm, which is the TRUE time of "between the two evenings")... the Passover MEAL is not EATEN until after SUNDOWN... and so on Nisan 15th (because sundown starts the NEW day AFTER the lamb slaughtering).

And so, celebrating it at the CLOSE of Nisan 14... which the WTBTS does... is correct. HOWEVER, to say that THAT was the SAME night as our dear Lord ate HIS meal... is WRONG. He had eaten HIS meal almost 24 hours earlier! On Nisan 14, JUST after the START of the day (over from Nisan 13th).

Sorry, I know I'm being redundant... but it took several hours for dear Hubby to grasp this, so it might be a bit difficult for others, too. Here's the timeline:

The Passover protocol for Israel:

1. Anytime on Nisan 10th - Lamb is to be selected

2. After Nisan 10th but BEFORE 3pm on Nisan 14th, preparation is to be made for (a) the Passover meal, and (2) the Festival of Unfermented Cakes/Unleavened Bread

3. Between 3pm-5:59pm (or "between the two evenings," meaning from when the sun openly descends to actual sundown) on Nisan 14th - lamb is to be slaughtered. (Note: This could NOT have been after dusk and before actual dark at the START of Nisan 14... because they meal would have been EATEN on Nisan 14th, as well. But THAT could not BE... and I will explain in a second).

4. AFTER sundown AFTER the lamb has been slaughtered and COOKED (which would take a couple/few hours - remember it had to be BLED... FIRST... THEN skinned, prepped, THEN cooked!)... the ATE the lamb... ALONG WITH bitter greens and... UNLEAVENED bread. Since sundown marked a NEW day, the EATING would have taken place on the 15th... which is entirely CORRECT. Why? Because, along WITH the lamb they had... the UNLEAVENED bread! And so:

a. SLAUGHTERING the lamb (on the 14th) started the Passover (Meal); and
b. EATING the lamb... WITH THE BREAD (a few hours later, on the 15th)... started the FESTIVAL of UNLEAVENED bread.

Which is EXACTLY how they were supposed to do it!

The problem is folks getting mixed up over the Passover starting on the 14th and the Festival having to start on the 15th. They just can't fathom that this is only a matter of a couple of hours difference (3-5:59pm is the 14th, then 6pm on being the 15th)... because they keep thinking/teaching that the Passover started at the START of Nisan 14th. It did NOT - it started at the END of Nisan 14th. And the Festival on the 15th. They didn't START the two on the same day, but once STARTED, they ran concurrent, the Passover for a few hours and then the Festival for seven (7) days.

The Passover was NOT a day long event - remember, the Israelites had to eat it in haste! Somehow, though, it's turned into them having all day to eat it!

Now, the timeline with CHRIST as the Passover Lamb:

1. Nisan 10th - Christ is "chosen" by the people when he rides into Jerusalem

2. Nisan 13th - During the day (between 9am and noon), Christ tells his disciples where to get the Passover meal ready

3. Nisan 13th - His Passover meal is prepared, with the lamb slaughtered sometime after 3pm... but BEFORE sundown (which would make it Nisan 14th)

4. Nisan 14th - After sundown they eat the meal, which they FINISH (because they were to (1) eat it that night, (2) eat it in haste), and (3) burn any leftovers)... after which they leave the room for Gethsemane

5. Nisan 14th - About midnight to early morning, Christ is arrested and trotted back and forth between Herod and Pilate. This is the beginning of the JEWS "preparation" for THEIR Passover and the Festival of Unfermented Cakes... and this trotting and trial was THE "Preparation" for CHRIST (to die as the "sacrifical" lamb)

6. Nisan 14th - Christ impaled about mid-morning and dies about 3pm

7. Nisan 14th - About 3pm, Christ dies. At the SAME time, between 3pm-5:59pm (or "between the two evenings," Jews slaughter their animal lamb

8. Nisan 15th - As above, AFTER sundown and AFTER the lamb has been slaughtered and COOKED (which, again, would take a couple/few hours - remember it had to be bled, etc.... they ate THEIR animal lamb... along with bitter greens and... unleavened bread... signaling the state of the FEAST of UNLEAVENED bread.

There are four more "steps" because, again, Christ was the TRUE Passover lamb, and do had to eat the meal with his friends a day BEFORE.

Now, as for the explanation you posted, dear LQ... if the Jews had ALREADY celebrated a Passover, then there was NOTHING that compelled them to have to do it AGAIN. Although there may have been more than one "Passover" instituted by the traditions of MAN... there was only ONE compulsory Passover instituted by GOD. And it started on the 14th of Nisan (between the two evenings, when the lamb was slaughtered)... and ended only a few hours after that (it was NOT a 24-hour long celebration, but one that HAD to be completed with a matter of hours: they had to eat it THAT night... and in haste. True, they could celebrate it the next MONTH, if they happened to be abroad when the first one was due, but there was no COMPULSORY Passover for the next day. The next day was the start of the Feast of Unfermented Cakes. But this "next day" wasn't another 24 hours, luv. It was only a few hours AFTER the lamb was sacrificed... when they ATE the lamb ('cause they ate it WITH the unleavened bread, which STARTED... THAT "festival").

I hope this helps, truly!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I'm a little confused here. Deut 16:6 says: "You should sacrifice the Passover offering in the evening as soon as the sun sets, at the appointed time of your coming out of Egypt." This would put it at the start of Nisan 14, wouldn't it, since those days started at sunset?

I have to admit... this is all very confusing to me. I've tried for the last two years to figure this out properly. There are arguments for the start of Nisan 14, and arguments for the end of Nisan 14. According to one source I looked at, even the Jews couldn't get agree on this. The Pharisees thought one way. The Sadducees thought another.

Sunday started at sundown the day BEFORE, dear At (peace, luv!).



The "regular" Sabbath started on Saturday (or Friday at sundown). He died on Thursday BEFORE sundown. So, they had the day OF Friday (BEFORE the Sabbath started at sundown... or Saturday)... to buy/prepare the spices.

He was buried in dirt? I never heard that. You mean the women were prepared to uncover him to prepare his body better?

Girl, NO! That was a typo! He wasN'T buried in the dirt! My apologies!!

As to the rest about him celebrating the day before Passover, that all makes sense (although I'll probably forget how it all fit together in about 5 minutes). I am glad to know that and about the Sabbaths.

Glad it does... and glad to have been of (some) help!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Dear LQ (peace, luv!)... you have fallen victim to the false stylus (Jeremiah 8:8 of the WTBTS (and other) scribes. You see, that is not what the verse says at all. Unfortunately, some, including the WTBTS, have interpreted the words of the verse as "WHEN the sun goes down"... and "as soon as the sun SETS"... and "sundown"... and "AFTER the sun sets"... and "AFTER sun down"... and words like these.

BUT... the ACCURATE rendering of the verse is, "AT THE GOING [DOWN] of the sun"... or "AS the sun goes [down]," or... as I shared with you our Lord shared with ME... "AS THE SUN DESCENDS."

The Hebrew word (from the Greek word) is "bow'" and you can find some meanings for that here:

http://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/ ... H935&t=KJV

Keep in mind, the Passover SACRIFICE (slaughtering of the lamb) took place AS the sun went down. That time, per our dear Lord... is about 3pm (I realize the descent actually starts at 12:01pm... but they didn't have clocks back then and so the VISIBLE descent of the sun... AT THAT TIME OF YEAR... was about 3pm. There's two other reasons/ways we can know this, and I will get to that, in a second. But Sun DOWN starts a new day. The lamb had to be bled, prep'd, etc., so the EATING took place AFTER sundown... or the NEXT day.



Well, hopefully, what I'm about to share with you will make it VERY clear - LOLOL! - and it is this:

When was the TRUE Lamb sacrificed? At what TIME did HE die? What part of the Law Covenant did Christ NOT keep? Dear one, regardless of what the Jews MAY have done... or what their TRADITIONS... MAY have been... CHRIST kept the TRUE Passover. Not only KEPT it... but WAS it.

And so, if he, the Sacrificial Lamb... died... at 3pm on Nisan 14... then THAT was the START of Passover. But... as with the animal lamb, the "EATING" couldn't take place right away - it had to be BLED... FIRST.

And our dear Lord was bled, luv, JUST as the animal lambs were. Remember, AFTER he died... he was PIERCED... and blood and water came out? Why? So that he could be BLED. Why did he need to be BLED? Because:

1. The blood MUST be poured back into the earth, yes, AND... even MORE important...

2. Flesh... with ITS blood... CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM. It is only flesh... with JAH'S blood... HOLY SPIRIT... that can do! So his vessel had to be EMPTIED of HUMAN blood... so that he could GO... come BACK... then ENTER into the spirit realm (and no, I did NOT know this, but received it JUST as I am now sharing this with you!! PRAISE JAH!!!).

I will tell you as I shared with dear Hubby: do NOT look to the Bible, scholars, etc., to know what occurred... when... and how. LOOK AT/TO CHRIST himself! Do NOT look at the Bible, etc., to see if what HE says is right - listen to HIM... so as to KNOW... if what is WRITTEN is right!

HE validates what is WRITTEN. While what is written CAN corroborate... it does not VALIDATE... what HE says!

One must decide, luv: to put faith in Christ and what comes from HIS mouth, what HE speaks... or what the scribes have written. Remember, though, HE said... "WOE, to you... scribes!"

I hope this helps, truly!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

But weren't there two Sabbaths in a row?
Didn't the annual Sabbath start Thursday at sundown?

I never noticed that either. Just always assumed they (the Jews) all ate the passover at the time Christ ate with his apostles. Making Christ, the lamb of God, being sacrificed AS the passover lamb, on the day of Passover.

That is a truth I had not yet known, but of course that makes complete sense.

Peace to you,
tammy

Yes, luv (peace to you!)



No... and yes. Not Thursday by how WE count days (12am to 11:59pm)... but Thursday as to how JEWS counted days (6pm to 5:59pm). SO... (and PLEASE overlook my caps - my computer is acting up again and it's not wanting to highlight (so as to italicize), so caps are just earlier for me, right now)...

My Lord, the Sacrificial Lamb, was slaughtered (and so died at 3pm) on Nisan 14... which was STILL WEDNESDAY by the JEWISH days. "SUNDOWN" (or 6pm/the 12 hour), a NEW day (Nisan 15... which was a THURSDAY by the Jewish days) started... as did the Festival of Unfermented Cakes (because that's when the lamb was EATEN, along with bitter greens and unleavened bread... because it took that long AFTER it had died to bleed, prep, and roast it)... which was a HIGH Holy... or SABBATH... WEEK. Exodus 12:16; Levitcus 23:2, 7

Then, the NEXT day... at the NEXT "SUNDOWN" (or 6pm/the 12 hour), another NEW day (Nisan 16... which was a FRIDAY by the Jewish days) started... as did the REGULAR Sabbath.

And so, you had a "High Holy" Sabbath start one day (and run 7 days, for a Sabbath WEEK), with a REGULAR Sabbath starting the day AFTER the High Holy Sabbath started. Thus, you had a (High Holy) Sabbath (week) start on THURSDAY, followed by a REGULAR Sabbath starting the very date after, on FRIDAY.

Because you had TWO Sabbaths starting back to BACK... you had a "great" Sabbath. On the years when the Feast of Unfermented Cakes started on, say, a Monday, or Tuesday... or any day EXCEPT a Thursday, you did NOT have a "great" Sabbath. Because the High HOLY Sabbath wasn't DIRECTLY followed... the VERY NEXT DAY... by a REGULAR Sabbath.

So THIS year, 30 CE... you had:

- End of Nisan 13, lamb slaughtered and prepared for Christ's Passover meal with his friends, to be eaten after sundown;
- Beginning of Nisan 14 (once sun has set), Christ eats HIS meal with his friends;
- End of Nisan 14 (but before sundown and start of Nisan 15), CHRIST slaughtered and prepared as Lamb for JEW's Passover meal;
- Beginning of Nisan 15 (once sun has set), Jews eat THEIR Passover meal, with unleavened bread, which starts "Festival of Unfermented Cakes", a High Holy day and thus, a Sabbath
- Beginning of Nisan 16 (24 hours after LAST sunset), is Friday evening and the start of a "regular" Sabbath
- Because there were TWO Sabbaths in a row (back to back - the High Holy Sabbath on Thursday, Nisan 15, followed by the Regular Sabbath on Friday, Nisan 16), it was a "GREAT"... or Double... Sabbath.

To get this, one needs to be able to SEE the JEWISH "day (sunset to sunset) AS WELL AS our days (midnight to 11:59pm). Because it is the overlapping that caused so much confusion. In THIS case, and what many DON'T understand... is that the it was not just the LAST day of the festival a week LATER that was a Sabbath, but the FIRST day, as well. And that first day started before a day of REGULAR Sabbath. So, they had TWO Sabbath days in a row!

I hope this helps!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Okay, I've spent two days driving myself crazy with this, so I really cannot read any more about Nisan anything or the Jewish days (for now).

If you don't mind, can we just put everything in terms of how we view our days and week today? (Just for now)

Thursday 3pm - Christ died
Thursday 6pm - Passover/Sabbath starts
Friday 6pm - Weekly Sabbath starts
Saturday 6 pm - Sabbath over
Sunday 6 am - Tomb found empty


Times are just approximate; this is just to give me a clear understanding as to the time line.

Right, Wrong, or Gong?

YES, dear At (peace to you!)! And so he is in the grave:

Part of ThursDAY (Part of a day)
ALL of Thursday NIGHT (Night 1)
ALL of FriDAY (a full day)
ALL of Friday NIGHT (Night 2)
ALL of SaturDAY (a full day)
ALL of Saturday NIGHT (Night 3)
Part of SunDAY (Part of a day)

So:

1. "Parts of 3 days" (part of Thurs., all of Fri., all of Sat., part of Sun)...
2. "Three nights" (Thurs., Fri., and Sat., night)

I realize what I shared may SEEM a lot... but somehow you seem to have gotten it, so... maybe not? LOLOL!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Whew!

Okay, then, back to my original thought:



So, is that what you meant here? The few hours left after the death (Thursday 3pm - 6 pm) is when they would have had to buy the spices? That's the only time I can see that they could have; and then maybe prepared them Saturday night after Sabbath ended (having spent 48 hours being under Sabbaths).

That's mostly what was holding me up from getting the time line, because of thinking they wouldn't have had time to buy anything right before Sabbath, since I thought it was a closer call to getting him entombed than it apparently was.

Well shelby, just so you know *puts back of hand on forehead, closes eyes* "You had me at hello"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUFDSJzfHhA

Me

Ataloa:

Remember, after the sun set on Saturday afternoon/evening, the new day, the first day of the week began. Thus, the women could very easily have purchased spices and things on that evening before everyone went to sleep and thus anoint Christ's dead body the following morning. I realize that the Jewish culture then was agrarian but the "merchants" (considering their love for money) very likely could open at the end of the Sabbath for a few hours as the new day began before closing shop and going to bed.

Just a thought.

--Armand

That did cross my mind, Armand. I didn't think it would be very likely to be able to shop in the evening, but I know nothing of how they did their business back then.

Yes, dear At and dear Armand (peace to you, both!): since the Sabbath ended at sundown on Saturday, they had from sundown until about, say 9pm... perhaps even midnight... to buy from the marketplace. And since this was a Festival WEEK it would be reasonable for many merchants to open then (precisely at the end of the "regular" Sabbath). Although the regular Sabbath had ended, the Festival continued for seven days... or until the following Wednesday.

Since ALL Jews were supposed to be in Jerusalem for the Passover (the Law required them to slaughter and eat the Passover where JAH had His name... so they had to leave their homes, live in tents/temporary quarters for the week, returning to those tents once the Passover had been eaten... then travel BACK home - Deuteronomy 16:2, 6, 7)... there were, understandably, a LOT of people in Jerusalem during the Festival. So it would make sense, from a practical point of view (as WELL as maybe from a capitalistic POV)... that merchants would be open as soon as possible after the Sabbath, and perhaps for long hours afterward, if not even overnight.

Wouldn't that have violated the Sabbath that was the High Holy Festival of Unfermented Bread, though? Apparently, not, otherwise the women would have had to wait the entire week before going to prepare our dear Lord's body. Even so, given how many people were in Jerusalem during such Festivals, a merchant could probably do business under the cover of "mercy".

I hope this helps!

Peace to you, both!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes, I suppose that does make sense, Shelby; thanks. Also, I was imagining 'preparing' the spices to be a long involved process, but maybe it did not take very long.