xjwsforChrist

Good! No need to tell me though. I'm not the one judging here. I am making no judgement as to your devotion to Christ, your own love of Jesus. That is not so of everyone here.

The One who judges sees all. He knows, he knows me and I know Him. As to your own judgement and estimation of me, voiced above...well, those are your own thoughts and say more about you and those influencing you...who are not even worth replying to...than they do about me.

I think you are a good person, Loz. Don't let yourself down.

Chariklo, I don't judge you. Not at all. As you shared it isn't anyone's right to judge.

I actually admire the strength of your loyalty to the RCC. I feel it's misplaced, and hear from our Lord that it is, just as mine was when I affiliated with the WTBS. That's because both institutions bring shame upon themselves due to their deeds.

What perhaps you don't see, is that as members of the body we would be reprehensible if we didn't warn you as to that affiliation. It is an act of love towards you. And all the more so since you claim to be a member of Christ's body also.

I might easily have joined another religion after leaving the WTBS, really so easily. The emotional damage from them has affected so many of us and inclines us towards finding another/better/truer religion. It's completely understandable that you went back to where you felt you'd be safe.

Our Lord kept warning me though, every time I entertained the notion, He stopped me. And I listened to Him, despite feeling quite adrift for a while. I didn't quite understand then, I just obeyed the spirit. I do now. On the basis of that understanding it becomes incumbent upon me, as a sister in Christ, to share that warning.

You are here Chariklo, still, knowing how we all feel about truth and the Truth, so that what we share is no surprise to you. Our disdain for the RCC has been evident and constant. That's because of our relationships with Christ, and not at all because of any personal attack towards you. On the contrary our warning to you is an act of love. I hope and pray that at some point you are able to 'get' that, for your own sake. But you can, of course, choose for yourself and no one here judges you for what you choose. We can't lie to you though, that really would be unloving.

I hope that this helps.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

As to this, just to clarify, I think you should reread what I actually wrote. I wasn't suggesting that you don't speak to Christ, I was agreeing that you don't speak simply AS TO Christ, at least not here. When you speak as to Christ here, it is always wrapped up in the RCC beliefs, as opposed to being simply about Christ himself and His words. That's what is apparent to observe. No judging whatsoever, simply observation.

I apologise if I didn't make myself clear.


Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Amen... Amen... and AMEN, dear, dear Loz (peace to you, dear, dear sister!).

A THOUSAND times... AMEN!

May those who wish it (and even those who may not wish it but would benefit from it)... be given ears to HEAR... and get the sense of these truths you have stated. MAY they. TRULY.

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

I DITTO THAT AMEN....

Dear Loz, that was lovely what and how you shared with Char. It is truly the way we as those that profess to be of the body of Christ see it.

It is not any more of a personal attack than when our Lord was trying to reveal to Us what the WTBS really was. Or was NOT!
It is all the same, just different forms of institutions.
They are all unclean as they have a leader or leaders who DO stand even if they think they do not or admit they do not...stand between the sheep and CHRIST as the only LEADER MAN NEEDS.

Thank you for sharing in a spirit of Love my sister. I hear ya!

Love to you ALL
Justmom

Merely observation from your own perspective, Loz. I assure you that the majority here do not share your view. You don't have to believe me, though!

The whole church throughout the world, all Christians everywhere, united in love of Christ in the Spirit, and obedient to the Father, are members of the Body of Christ. Professing it doesn't make it so of one. Following Him does. Without pride, without trusting oneself, recognising one's faults and humbly acknowledging them, and without any self-aggradisement.

Professing and proclaiming oneself to be "part of the Body", as such, is entirely inappropriate. Following Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, accepting Jesus' teachings and obeying his injunctions, and being part of the worldwide fellowship of billions of Christians...not arrogantly proclaiming oneself as "part of the Body"...those are the things that enable us to be His. Not a voice. Not announcing that one is part of a select few.

Who can say? But it would appear, on the surface at least, that proclaiming special status for oneself and deciding that membership of the Roman Catholic Church is a major fault that would exclude another...or even deciding that another's status is inadequate,.,these are the things that would appear not to be of Jesus Christ.

"Thank God I am not as other men are." "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner."

Which one do you recognise as approved by Jesus?

You think you don't judge? Think again! Each time you condemn another you do the same fourfold to yourselves!

As an afterthought:

Loz wrote, and no doubt justmom and Shelby agree, "I feel it's misplaced and hear from our Lord that it is".

Jesus does not behave like that. Increasingly, I wonder just exactly who it is that you are all hearing. A very worrying thought.

For myself, I shall continue to trust in Him, who is able to keep us from falling. Not give any credence at all to the very wrong and mistaken views from the three of you above.

I do understand Char your feelings on this of course.

When I share, it is using backed by what it is written. It is not MY words nor MY understanding.
It is in scripture when our Lord tells us

Char said...

Professing and proclaiming oneself to be "part of the Body", as such, is entirely inappropriate. Following Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, accepting Jesus' teachings and obeying his injunctions, and being part of the worldwide fellowship of billions of Christians...not arrogantly proclaiming oneself as "part of the Body"...those are the things that enable us to be His. Not a voice. Not announcing that one is part of a select few.


How is it inappropriate? To confess union with our Lord in inappropriate??

Demonstrating our faith in him and being obedient to HIS words and what he tells us as to union with him is from HIS OWN VOICE. So who's voice are you listening to to tell you what constitutes union with CHRIST?
How do you not reconcile that HIS voice is the one we are to listen to that tells us how we are to be and remain in union with him as the body???

" Not all professing would belong to him". Matthew 25
" That HIS sheep know HIS voice". Not the voice of the GB or the Pope. Those are strangers voices. John 10

" That many are invited, but FEW chosen." Matthew 22:14. Invited to what char? Chosen for whom?

" To get out of this harlot that professes union with CHRIST, but is not " Revelation 18

" To quit touching what is unclean, and CHRIST will take us in as sons and daughters."

" Remaining chaste as a virgin ( in a spiritual sense of course )

How do you understand from Holy Spirit this? Those that belong to him would or should know this right?

As a side thought ....

To point out once again the hypocrisy in the two different but very similar institutions.

The RCC just received some NEW LIGHT while the Pope was visiting Brazil.

We all know how the church has felt and for years as to those that are Gay!
They believe along the same lines as the WTBS, that it is a choice and it is a sin. Grave sin!

But now the Pope announces that although " homosexuality is sinning ( which we ALL sin just differently ) that being Gay is NOT a sin."
So God never knew this all along. He was confused as to what really sin is or is not?.....
Or is it MAN was confused and that he had been misleading and judging this whole time????

The Pope just acknowledged that since being gay was not a sin, it proved what science has come to learn. That a person CAN BE born this way. Not a choice for them. ( some choose yes) but then as he mentioned, " who is he to judge?" Maybe not him, but a whole lot of folks and popes have already condemned millions. Much blood quilt.

So which has been right all along? GOD or MAN?
And folks have been following the judgement of the church but NOW must follow the NEW LIGHT.

Also members of the body of CHRIST are both men and women and children. Yet NOW they entertain possibly women being priests. NOW?
Is this NEW LIGHT as well???

I believe it's similar to the WTBS in that, they are losing many members as they announce and they must make some changes even compromise what they have long believed and condemned for in order to regain increased membership.
So could reform in these institutions really be just a desperate measure to gain members and not really caring if they are promoting THE TRUTH?
Imagine the increase ( probably a third of the world) if they become " cool" with gay people.


Just a thought that been stirring inside
My lord shows me comparisons all the time.

Love Justmom.

P.s. waiting to see what new light awaits in the future.

Would that that were true, dear Char (peace!)... but the many sects, factions, religions, beliefs, etc., prove that it is not. That one claims to be a "christian," yet denies the reality, power, and purpose of holy spirit... and the voice and leadings of Christ, the Holy Spirit... totally deny such claim. In addition, history has shown that most are NOT united in love... of Christ or any one else. It's one of the very reasons that atheism is growing as it is: the conduct of so-called "christians"... as to their fellowman. Their own brothers, let alone their enemies.



EXACTLY! Funny, though, you seem to overlook that truth... and continue to profess to be something, yet denying having received the very CHOOSING that makes one so! One can CALL oneself a "christian" all the day long; however, if one hasn't received an anointing with holy spirit... one is not a christian (chosen person). One can be a disciple of Christ, yes, and not have received such choosing. As many WERE... before the outpouring of holy spirit. However, once one receives such spirit... one cannot DENY that choosing... and not blaspheme.

You don't yet understand this but, just like those you decry (JWs/the WTBTS) you THINK you are something... when perhaps you are not. You don't SEE, however, that your calling yourself such... without having received the actual CHOOSING... is no different than those. Like you, they also profess to be "christians," as well as to be united with/in Christ.



No, dear one. THAT... is a "disciple." And, again, MANY were such... and followed him... for a time. Many of such left OFF following him, though, when he either said or did something that didn't comport with what THEY wanted (to hear/see/receive). And many followed him NOT because of what he SAID... but because of what he DID (fed them, healed them, etc.). They weren't interested in DOING what he was teaching... but merely receiving some kind of personal benefit from him. He addressed that when he told them that the only reason they were following him was because they wanted some food... and not because they wanted to learn from him.



Well, that should not BE the case, no... but if you think that IS the case, you're in error. I give you Paul and Peter, just to name a few. But that is part of the process of being "subdued" by Christ: what is required FIRST... is faith. Not perfection, of any kind. Faith... so that one WILL listen to him... HIS voice... and thus HIS instructions TO such one... and then obey what he SAYS. Then, HE disciplines and trains such one so as to overcome such things.

Even so, one cannot say one trust's HIM... and not his or her self, can one... if one won't even acknowledge that he DOES speak... but rather, consistently opines on what THEY think/believe is right or wrong... right? We OPENLY acknowledge to you who it is WE trust... and it is not ourselves. We not only recognize our faults but openly acknowledge them, even to you. And it isn't we who are self aggrandizing: YOU deny that Christ even speaks to you... directly, literally... but that you "kind of, sort of, in essence," THINK you hear him... but that really it's your own voice... or that of others that teaches you. So, not only do you aggrandize yourself... but others... while COMPLETELY disregarding and overlooking him. I realize that you don't SEE it that way... but that truly is what it is.



May I ask you... from WHOM did you receive that understanding? Because it certainly isn't from Christ... or Paul... or the Apostles. Indeed, every one of THESE say just the opposite. So... WHO is "telling" you this? You own self? Those you follow? And on what do you/they base it?

I would be MORE than happy to share NUMEROUS scriptures/verses that indicate otherwise, but I think I should most probably let you tell us on what you base your belief in this, first. Because I really DON'T like contradicting you, dear Char. But you continually, consistently, and repeatedly leave me NO choice. You continually, consistently, and repeatedly state things... as if you "know"... things that MOST "christians" tend to believe and think is true and so they KNOW... which are NOT true, not at ALL. WHY??? Why not consider that PERHAPS what you've been taught IS wrong, utterly wrong... and that perhaps Christ DOES speak... literally... and can and WILL speak to YOU... just as he does to US? Why do YOU keep putting up a block, keep making yourself as one who must be goaded?



Again, I must ask: on WHAT do you base this understanding? Because it is FALSE. TRULY, dear Char. It IS. Why will not even allow yourself to CONSIDER that it might be... that you MAY have been misled, are yet BEING misled... and so don't hear because you don't BELIEVE he speaks?? As you state, "not a voice." You COULD... if you would just condescend... even a tiny bit... and consider that PERHAPS... YOU are the one who is wrong here. You are following a RELIGIOUS tenet, dear one... NOT Christ.



One who IS a member of hte Body of Christ can say! Of COURSE they can! What would be the point in being a member if one could NOT? While a "weed" may THINK itself a "wheat"... but be in error... the "wheat" CERTAINLY know who and what it is! But you have been misled to believe something different. By WHOM? Do you truly think the apostles and early Body didn't know who they were... and didn't tell OTHERS?? What would be the POINT in receiving holy spirit? Was it not to DECLARE the good news of the kingdom? What is that good news, dear Char... and who is it FOR? If it's for EVERYONE... then how would "everyone" KNOW... if NO ONE PROFESSED IT THEMSELVES??



You are in grave, grave error... and what you are being used to do, here, is "shut UP the kingdom of the heavens before men." We are not to HIDE our light [under a basket], dear one... but SHOUT what we hear! From the rooftops, even! But what you are doing... is what the false christs and false prophets have been doing for MILLENIA: attempting to "guilt" the Body of Christ, even the Prophets... into silence, into denying who they are! Do you not SEE?

I remember something very profound that occurred with me twice, as a JW, something that YOU are doing here, in the SAME manner... and perhaps unbeknownst to YOU, for the same reason. When I professed to be "of the anointed," I was demanded by two Circuit Overseers... one even adamantly so... "Why don't you ACT like it?" I didn't know what they meant! I LEARNED that what they MEANT is that the "anointed" don't "go around telling folks." No, they keep that good news to themselves... even "hide" themselves within the congregations/organization. No, the ONLY "public declaration" that such a one would make would be as to the WTBTS being the "way" to "Jehovah." YOU... are doing the SAME thing: the only "way" to JAH/Christ... is through your RCC. That JAH/Christ has put their spirit ON someone... no, nope, don't talk about that. Can't talk about THAT! Not even if one acknowledges that they were/ARE a sinner... and such spirit has manifested to THEM... God's unfathomable mercy! No, no, don't tell anyone about THAT!

What, though, is the GOOD news... of the kingdom, dear Char? What NEWS are we SUPPOSED to be telling others ABOUT? That Christ, although risen from the dead and living... is SILENT... and speaks to us through books and other men... certain men... who themselves deny that he speaks to mankind, let alone to them... but if you want to know what he SAYS, well, they don't really know either but they're willing to take a shot at it and opine... and since that's the best you can do, you should listen to them??

Would not the GOOD news be that Christ died, yes, rose from the dead, yes, is alive, yes... and so can and DOES speak... FOR HIMSELF... to ANY who are willing... and ABLE... by FAITH... to HEAR him? So that you don't need ANYONE to be teaching you... but the anointing you receive from HIM... will allow HIM to teach you... directly?

Which, tell me PLEASE... is truly GOOD news, dear Char?



Exactly! Lord have mercy on me, a SINNER! So... do I go and tell others OF that mercy... and that by means of it ANYONE can receive that same spirit and be taught DIRECTLY by Christ? Or do I withhold that mercy... and let others continue in their error, including their erroneous belief that he DOESN'T speak... so that they DON'T hear... when he calls THEM?



Seeing as I have openly professed that I AM a sinner which is why I NEED a savior and am GRATEFUL for JAH's mercy shown to ME... many times... even laying some of them out publicly on another forum... twice... and not just quoted some verse trying to make others think I think that of myself when really I think I know it all... even though I profess I don't hear Christ and so certainly didn't get what I know from HIM... I think that's a question YOU should consider asking yourself.



WHO has condemned anyone here... except YOU, dear Char? No one here has judged OR condemned you. If anything, perhaps your own conscience judges you... and so you are fighting against that, while aiming your arrows at US... but that's on you. You want to associate with/be a member of the RCC? By ALL means, luv... DO that! More power to you and may you go your way in peace! We don't care, truly! We ONLY take issue with the RCC because of IT'S history and current conduct, while professing some kind of a union with Christ. We DON'T take issue with YOU... but rather, shine the Light (that is Christ) ON that institution and its falsehood. Just as YOU keep shining a light on the WTBTS. How do you NOT see that it is NO different???





You're right: "Jesus" does not. But that's because "Jesus" is a construct of man. As for the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is the Holy Spirit and Son and Christ of the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies... who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, the Apostles, Paul... how would YOU know this? How would YOU know HOW he behaves? If you are speaking of Christ, the Son of God, who IS that Holy One and Holy Spirit... on what do you BASE your assertion that he does not??? On what those who you follow have TOLD you? But such is in ERROR! He DOES "behave" such. How many times is it recorded where he corrected those who came to him and/or opposed him... by telling THEM what he heard from the Father?? And if HE left US a pattern to follow, why would our doing the SAME... be considered as NOT from him?

You don't know him, Char. You know an "image" of him created by man. An ideology. But not HIM. But it doesn't HAVE to be that way. You CAN know him... by means of his BLOOD: holy spirit. Which you don't even acknowledge exists, but deny. How can be open to receiving something you won't ALLOW yourself to admit MIGHT exist?



Of course you do. Because YOU don't KNOW him. And so, because what we share is NOT familiar to you... and Who we share ABOUT is not known to you... you worry. You SHOULD. Just as WE worry about "whom" it is that YOU listen to. Man AND spirit!



In WHOM, Char? In WHOM are you trusting... and HOW? Certainly not in the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel... or HIS Christ... because how can you put faith in some of whom YOU have not heard, someone YOU don't KNOW? And by your own admission... you know neither of these!



Keep WHOM from falling, dear one? ALL of mankind? If so, then why did Adam fall, luv? Cain? Esau? Judas? Ananias? Sapphira? Nicolaus? And many, many... many others?

Not give any credence at all to the very wrong and mistaken views from the three of you above.

It is entirely your choice, dear Char. But you are mistaken if you believe we even WISH you to listen to us. Indeed, if you believe that... then you have missed the point entirely. As to ALL we have shared with you. Every bit of it.

Again, peace to you... and may you be GIVEN ears... if you TRULY WISH them... so as to hear when the Spirit and the Bride (once again!)... say to YOU:

"Come! Take "life's water"... which water is the blood of GOD, the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies... and is poured out by ONE, His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"

May you hear that call... and RESPOND to it... so as to RECEIVE such "water"... if that is what you TRULY wish to occur. If not, no one judges you: to his/her own master each one will stand or fall. And so it is up to the master of each one to judge them... not us. But if your purpose for being here is to defend the RCC, please understand, this is probably not the best place for that. If you want to talk about Christ, it probably is. At least, one of them.

Peace.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

This response has made me very sad indeed. It feels like trying to reach someone who's trapped in the WTBS and brainwashed. It really does.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Another angle on the shunning topic.

Has anybody else noticed that Witnesses (and ex-witnesses) sometimes impose shunning on themselves? I have seen children leave the Kingdom Hall, then move away leaving no forwarding address or phone number for their own brothers and sisters. I have seen divorced adults leave town before marrying "outside the truth" so that their faithful Witness children wouldn't be embarrassed by their "worldly" behavior.

It seems to me that this behavior is little different than when the faithful members fire the Shun Gun. The effect is basically the same: loss of family contact, blocked bonds of normal love and affection. The appropriate response is the hardest: saying (and meaning) that whatever has happened, whatever the others do, will not affect how I treat them or feel about them.

Forgiving is not the easiest thing to do, but it is the best. I'm not the way there yet, but I am working on it.

But perhaps there is a difference, dear GLT (peace to you!): on the one hand (where loved ones are shunned), LACK of love is the underlying motivation. On the other hand (where one distances himself/herself from loved ones, so as to not cause THEM embarassment/discomfort)... love is often the driving motivation.

The result can be the same, yes: families are ultimately divided. Christ never called for such, though. He did say it would occur, members of a household against one another, brother delivering up brother, etc., but not that such was on the doing of his Body. Rather, it would be those who could not accept such ones... of which there are MANY (those who cannot accept this truth) on this earth. Always have been, always will be. From Cain... until now.

Earthling man... whad'ya gonna do? Praise JAH... there is a savior!

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Because, as I have said, times without number, the Body of our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Son of God is the Church, the community of those who profess faith in her and belief in Him, the Son of Man and third Person of the Trinity. If you "profess" union with the Body, frankly, it's just plain weird.



How? Explicitly! From Jesus' own words! Along with billions of good, loving and believing Christians. I'll remind you, as Shelby and those who follow her seem to have forgotten: "he who believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life." As I have said many times, Jesus made it as clear as day. John 11:25. "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he may die, yet will he live"

"He who believes in me." Exactly, EXACTLY what I said. Yet Shelby, in her post, shuts the door of heaven to those to whom Jesus opens it. Justmom, you and Shelby ask from whom did I hear the understanding that I voiced? From Jesus Christ, Son of God, and may he have mercy on you for preaching counter to his own words and pressing your own fictional views onto others. Doing so is Jehovah's Witness-type behaviour. Excluding others, in your own words, from the promises He makes. God gave his Only Son to live and die as Man for us all, for the whole world...yet not in your eyes.

I am not the one who does not hear his voice.

I do believe you hear a voice, as the alternative would be mass delusion. If it isn't mass ( a minute, tiny, minuscule mass, fortunately) delusion, then you hear a voice. But not, most definitely not, the voice of Jesus.

If it isn't the voice of Jesus, and it cannot be since it tells you things going directly against the things Jesus said, then it is something else, from somewhere and someone else, and you can work that out for yourselves as to who it is.

Now, to move on:

Justmom, you write this.



NOT TRUE!!!! Lie!!!! Justmom, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and am sure that you wrote the above from sheer downright ignorance and not malicious lying. Let me tell you [b]what the Pope really said.

Note the direct quotations from what the Pope actually, really said below.

Referring to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Pope Francis said that people with homosexual tendencies must not be excluded but should be integrated into society. He said, "if a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worst problem."

The Pope's speech was echoing the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which says, and I quote directly from it: (Section 2357 has reiterated that "homosexuality is clearly disordered". (Note that he is intrinsically and expressly agreeing with what the Catechism says). Then, in Section 2358, it says "The number of men and women with homosexual tendencies is not negligible." They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be treated with compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity...."

Homosexual persons are called to chastity and they must not suffer discrimination. That is inherent in what the Pope says, and explicitly he was speaking against gay lobbies and pressure groups.

That is what the Church has always said. That is what the Pope said and what the vicious and malicious anti-Catholic brigade lampooned and lied about, and justmom has read the anti-Catholic untruths and not only swallowed them hook, line and sinker, but repeated them, crowing and mocking, but passing on the lies, on this forum.

No "New Light". Nothing new. No revelation. The Pope can and will issue any fundamentally new revelation and understanding from his position ex cathedra, (from the Chair of St Peter), but he did not do so in this instance. The sections of the Protestant media that are anti-Catholic have had a field day spreading malicious lies. Justmom repeats it. No regard paid to what the Pope actually said, the words he did NOT utter. No. Any old lie will do in this forum so long as it is against Jesus, all the while hypocritically asserting that it is from words directly from his lips. Words from somebody's voice, sure, maybe, but not, repeat not, from the voice of Jesus Christ, Son of God.

The Pope was constantly referring to and quoting the Catechism, yet the press pretended something diametrically opposite and here we see result. Justmom's words on new light gloatingly and crowingly repeated here.

Shame on you for repeating gossip. Shame on you for not checking your facts.

As for Shelby, well, she is not forgotten. When I can stomach her poisonous abuse, I'll answer it. In my own good time.

....justmom

P.s. waiting to see what new light awaits in the future.[/quote]

Wasn't that witty of justmom? Were we all supposed to roll on the floor laughing, or what?

Again, shame on you!

Okay, now you're not only contradicting yourself, dear Char (peace!), but falsely stating that faith should be in "the Church" (so NOT Christ)... while only our BELIEF is in him. No, no... I'm not twisting your words, at all. Here is what YOU stated:



Unfortunately, statements like these only further show that you do not know Christ, at all... and are not of his Body. Because those of his Body KNOW that:

(1) Our FAITH is to be in HIM... and ONLY him; and

(2) That one believes means nothing; the demons believe... and have belief IN Christ (Acts 15:16-18) ... but that doesn't make them part of Christ's Body.



What "words," dear Char... and HOW did you "hear" them? The Bible doesn't have a mouth; it can't speak. So HOW do you understand?



And I'll remind YOU, again, that you are one of only two who have OPENLY professed that I am the reason you are here... and of the two, you are the ONLY one who OPENLY professed that YOU followed ME. Do you not see your hypocrisy, yet? And had I joined you in revering the RCC... you would have continued to "follow" me, Char.



To WHOM was he speaking, though, dear one... and OF whom? Everyone, as you believe? But his words don't include everyone, do they, but only those who HAVE FAITH IN him (which is what the word you translate as "believes" really means. Yet, above, you profess that your faith is NOT in him... but in "the Church." Do you SEE?


Sorry, but no. While on the one had you make that claim as to the Catholic "Church," on the other hand you make it as to all of mankind. Again, you contradict yourself. Even more so, YOU don't believe in him, dear one... except to the extent he is still dead. Because dead persons... don't speak.



How so, dear Char? I never shut the Door that is Christ to anyone... including you. In fact, I herald that Door... SHOUT of him... from the rooftops! Where, though, is YOUR proclamation... other than your endorsement of the RCC? Even so, while I cannot do what YOU wish me... and endorse the RCC WITH you... I certainly don't judge those who have their faith in her, including you. Since "she" is their/your master, to HER you will stand... or fall. Not to me.

[On another note, I do wish you would come up with an original retort just once, rather than simply parroting me and what I've shared with you. It doesn't make you look credible, dear one, but merely another "JW-ish" type of person simply parroting what she's been told to say when asked a reason for her faith.]



WE are not the one who say otherwise or take issue with this, dear Char; YOU are and do. YOU say you don't hear him speak to you. Yet, NOW... you contradict yourself and say you heard it from him. Again... you contradict yourself. Which is it, then? DO you hear... and if so... HOW? Or do you not, in which case, what do you mean by the above? Please note, these questions are both rhetorical and not. Rhetorical... because I have no illusions that you can... or will... respond to them. Not, just in case I'm wrong. Based on history, I don't think so, though.



Okay, forget rhetorical. Show me... PLEASE... WHERE... in even ONE instance... I, dear 'Mom... or anyone here but you (and perhaps one or two others) have preached ANYTHING counter to Christ's words. ONE verse, dear Char. Just ONE.



That, too. Please... show me/us. Just ONE thing. AND... where we are pressing them onto ANYONE. You don't even know what we're talking about... and you certainly can't say we're pressing anything on YOU. No one is pursuing you, dear Char. WE don't come where YOU are; YOU come where WE are. Why??



And there you go: back to the whole world... yet, as above, those who "believe" in him. I feared I might have to find one of the many posts where you stated that... but you've done my work for me, thank you. But which IS it, dear Char? The WHOLE world... including those who do NOT believe in him (and there are many)... or those who believe in him? And if it's EVERYONE who "believes" in him... does that include the demons? Because remember, again, they believe in him, too.



Well, that's what WE said: that you DO hear... indeed, that you even once admitted it! YOU are the one who denies that, NOW. YOU are the one who says you don't hear. We have not said such ABOUT you. We have SAID that EVERYONE hears... but few LISTEN. Including, apparently, you.



Sigh. Yet another contradiction: we hear, yet you are "not the one who does not hear..."



Wait, and WE sound like Jehovah's Witnesses???!!! So, you believe that OTHER spirits can speak... and you have NO problem believing we hear OTHER spirits... but not THE Holy Spirit, the HOLY ONE of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... His Son and Christ... who ROSE... FROM the dead... and IS ALIVE? HE can't speak, although lesser spirits can... and we can't hear HIM (although, apparently you can, yes?)... but can hear lesser spirits?? You believe other spirits can and do speak... and people can hear THEM... but NOT the One to whom was given "ALL authority... in heaven AND on earth"?? What SENSE does that make, dear Char???

I will tell you: it makes NO sense. But, it is certainly a belief of Jehovah's Witnesses. And, apparently, you and those you share in faith with, as well. What a LACK of faith, though...

,

Again, I call upon you... before JAH/God, JAHESHUA/"Jesus"/Christ... all the angels... and all of mankind, including those here... to show ME where I have shared ANYTHING that goes directly (or indirectly) against the things "Jesus" said. Just ONE, dear Char. Keep in mind... YOU will have to know what he's said... whether as recorded (which you have proven time and time again that you DON'T know)... or as you have heard FROM him. Please... show me.



Actually, no, there's nothing for US to work out. There is something for YOU to work out, though... and it starts with the letter "b." I implore you... if you truly don't know, just admit that. But please don't continue to opine because what you're doing is dangerous. You are attributing the words of the Holy Spirit to "something else," by which I can't help thinking you mean anything other than the Adversary or one of HIS angels... and you don't want to do that, dear Char. Truly, you do not.

As for the discussion between you and dear 'Mom (peace to you!)... I will leave that to you and her, as I have no care of the matter one way or the other. One Pope is of one position, another of another. Earthling man, so there should be no surprise. Just like this Pope is more liberal about the matter, the former... and perhaps the next... will be more conservative. Politics. That's all it all is. Not faith in JAH/Christ. Because if it WERE... there would be no NEED for a "catechism" OR comment/position as to the matter. For the HOLY SPIRIT... which teaches ALL who belong to him... would have told ALL the SAME thing. Which is why, with that spirit... ones does not NEED any others to be teaching them! See?? Jeremiah 31:31-34; 1 John 2:26-28



I will comment here, though, and ask: what, fundamentally, is the difference between, say, the Catechism, Talmud, Book of Mormon... and the Watchtower? Are these not ALL supplemental commentary? Why? Wasn't/isn't the Bible sufficient? Wait... my Lord asks: wasn't/isn't HE... and holy spirit... sufficient? According to the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... it SHOULD be (Matthew 17:5; Hebrews 12:25



Stop it, Char. You are not a victim here and no one is abusing you. YOU have been the abuser... and we "fell out" you and I... when I called you on it. You want me to treat YOU better than you treated others, although those others had done neither you NOR me any wrong here. You want others to respect YOUR faith... while allowing YOU to attack and tear down theirs. IF you didn't profess to be a member of the Body of Christ, I would leave you to what you do. Because you profess to BE such, I cannot. Because the Body would not do such a thing. We would, yes, expose the falsehoods of those who CLAIM to know and be "leaders" in that Body, those false prophets and false "christs" (Matthew 24:24; Revelation 2:2, 6, 9, 13-15, 20; 3:9, 16-18).



Knowing dear 'Mom as I do, I don't think she meant that to BE funny, dear Char. Not at all. Knowing her, I heard her "incredulity" at the fact that more of such "light" will come. To mankind's shame.



No, dear, dear Char. No. Shame... on you, dear one. Shame on you... for stubbornly sticking to your "golden calf"... rather than walking in FAITH. Shame on you... that although like Moses, our dear Lord HAS gone up the "mountain" to prepare a way for us... he is NOT dead... can hear US... and we, him... yet you deny this... and keep trying to deny us our proclamation of this. Shame on you... for professing to be a member of Christ's Body... yet, having your faith, love, and loyalty... in a body of people who don't even belong to him. Shame on you... for not telling others the TRUTH: that the Son of God, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... is not only ALIVE... risen from the dead and grave... and so LIVES... but SPEAKS... and leads HIS Body... HIMSELF... and not through the various manmade organizations that purport to sit in his seat and stand in the Way... and be some kind of mediator/middleman conduit that folks must join to, be apart of, and follow the tenets of... in order to be joined to him!

Shame... on you... dear Char... for not OPENLY professing this truth, as you once were of the mind and heart to do... yet, allowing your hurt feelings... because someone disagreed with you and pointed out your error as to your poor treatment of another... you shrunk back. Shame on you... for listening to earthling man... and putting your trust in them... when we, the Body, were told NOT to put our trust in earthling man... or in nobles... because their breath goes out... and they DIE... just like the rest of us! Shame on you... for trying to point not only non-Body members, but the Body itself... to these men... and their tenets and catechisms, etc., rather than to the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, who the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel GAVE to mankind... to guide, and lead, and teach them... so that they need any other mediators!

Shame... on... you... dear, dear Char... because you are allowing you FEAR... which fear you acquired when you ran from the traps of the RCC into the trap of the WTBTS, and uncovered yet a deeper wasps nest of lies... but because you lacked the faith to keep moving FORWARD... turned BACK... and wish to take others back with you.

If returning to "Egypt" is what makes you happy, dear one... then, please... by all means: go. We wish you NO harm and mean you NO illwill. We, though... well, at least me and MY household... will keep following the Lamb. Wherever HE goes. And he's not going through the RCC, dear one. Truly. His "dragnet" went through THAT "city" some time ago. True, on occasion some will hear the call to get out of HER... but if you've noticed, most leave her... for the WTBTS. Which is where his dragnet is now. How long in which be in that "city"... only he knows.

But it is to the "inhabitants" of THAT is the "city" that our message to "GET OUT OF 'HER'" is primarily directed, not the RCC. Hopefully, except where YOU bring that "city" (the RCC) up... others will be able to simply move on past "her"... and focus on the other. When YOU bring her up, though, you should expect to receive comments from others as to her "uncleanness." You really should expect nothing less. Especially since YOU have absolutely NO problems pointing out the uncleanness of the WTBTS. Which is fine with US. We just think you should be aware of the three fingers pointing back at the RCC, is all.

Shame on you... for ALL of this... while professing to be a member of the Body of Christ. ALL of this, however, PROVES that you have not yet attained to that position, dear one. But... the Door stands open, still. May you, then... HEAR... when the SPIRIT and his Bride SAY to you (and by say, I mean SAY... as in WORDS):

[b]"Come! Take life's water... free!" [b]

But you would have to come to the One who pours that water out, dear Char... and there is only One who does: the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), who is the Son and Christ of the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies.

May you be given EARS to hear that call, dear one. Indeed, may the undeserved kindness and mercy of MY God and Father, that MOST HOLY ONE... and the love and peace of His Son and Christ... that HOLY One and Holy Spirit... be UPON you... if you TRULY wish it. Truly, dear Char.

My wish for peace for you remains.

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Char says...

Because, as I have said, times without number, the Body of our Blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Son of God is the Church, the community of those who profess faith in her and belief in Him, the Son of Man and third Person of the Trinity. If you "profess" union with the Body, frankly, it's just plain weird.



Char.... I am completely confused by this statement. So, you say....the body IS the church, those that PROFESS....faith IN HER....

Then you say, If we profess union with the body, frankly , its just plain weird!"

WEIRD HOW CHAR? You just said the body IS the church, those that PROFESS FAITH...

Why is is OKAY for YOU to say PROFESS and its weird for US to say PROFESS?

But then you say " profess faith IN HER!. Who's the HER? The RCC? Please tell me I am misunderstanding this?


Then you say....you DO hear his voice ? Then you've said you DONT hear him directly? ...
Then its NOT a VOICE that would identify you as " belonging to him" .....Then you don't talk with him directly but are SURE that we are truly listening to false voices, not His voice! How would you know Char who or what we truly are listening to? Is it because it does NOT agree with the RCC? The VOICE that you identify with hearing over our LORDS voice?
So it must SURELY be a wrong voice?

As to the comments the Pope said on all the news I watched and read, he did say that although he does not judge, " that homosexuality IS sinning, but being GAY is not."
Now I don't care one way or the other whether a person is gay or not, I am a sinner myself. We're ALL in the same boat that is sinking. CHRIST is the only life boat!
You may try to soften how the RCC views gay people. But I will tell you, Catholics and most Christian religions have a BIG problem with their orientation!

I don't really care if he was quoting from the catholic catechism! Why should he be using THAT ( uninspired book like the watchtower publications) over the BIBLE or Holy Spirit as a first choice?
Isn't he supposed to be annointed with this spirit ?...and it teaching Him?.....not the Catechism?

Char, I understand you do not agree with this. I also know you think I follow Shelby. Believe what you want. Okay by me! But you are falsely making an accusation that she shuts up the kingdom to individuals that Jesus has opened the way for.
This is an outright LIE on your behalf. She has repeatedly over and over and over again and we've had this conversation before Char, she has done NOTHING but share our Lord and the way to salvation through him. And that Holy Spirit is FREE!!!! It is a gift to ANYONE who is asking!!!!!

You can't ever say that about the RCC! Nothing has ever been FREE with them!!!!! If it was they wouldn't be hoarding the worlds wealth. Char what are they holding onto this for? Material riches are valueless in the kingdom, can't take em with you!

My sister Shelby words this much better than I ever could right now and my sprit bears full witness with this sharing to you!



No, dear, dear Char. No. Shame... on you, dear one. Shame on you... for stubbornly sticking to your "golden calf"... rather than walking in FAITH. Shame on you... that although like Moses, our dear Lord HAS gone up the "mountain" to prepare a way for us... he is NOT dead... can hear US... and we, him... yet you deny this... and keep trying to deny us our proclamation of this. Shame on you... for professing to be a member of Christ's Body... yet, having your faith, love, and loyalty... in a body of people who don't even belong to him. Shame on you... for not telling others the TRUTH: that the Son of God, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... is not only ALIVE... risen from the dead and grave... and so LIVES... but SPEAKS... and leads HIS Body... HIMSELF... and not through the various manmade organizations that purport to sit in his seat and stand in the Way... and be some kind of mediator/middleman conduit that folks must join to, be apart of, and follow the tenets of... in order to be joined to him!

Shame... on you... dear Char... for not OPENLY professing this truth, as you once were of the mind and heart to do... yet, allowing your hurt feelings... because someone disagreed with you and pointed out your error as to your poor treatment of another... you shrunk back. Shame on you... for listening to earthling man... and putting your trust in them... when we, the Body, were told NOT to put our trust in earthling man... or in nobles... because their breath goes out... and they DIE... just like the rest of us! Shame on you... for trying to point not only non-Body members, but the Body itself... to these men... and their tenets and catechisms, etc., rather than to the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, who the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel GAVE to mankind... to guide, and lead, and teach them... so that they need any other mediators!

Shame... on... you... dear, dear Char... because you are allowing you FEAR... which fear you acquired when you ran from the traps of the RCC into the trap of the WTBTS, and uncovered yet a deeper wasps nest of lies... but because you lacked the faith to keep moving FORWARD... turned BACK... and wish to take others back with you.

If returning to "Egypt" is what makes you happy, dear one... then, please... by all means: go. We wish you NO harm and mean you NO illwill. We, though... well, at least me and MY household... will keep following the Lamb. Wherever HE goes. And he's not going through the RCC, dear one. Truly. His "dragnet" went through THAT "city" some time ago. True, on occasion some will hear the call to get out of HER... but if you've noticed, most leave her... for the WTBTS. Which is where his dragnet is now. How long in which be in that "city"... only he knows.

But it is to the "inhabitants" of THAT is the "city" that our message to "GET OUT OF 'HER'" is primarily directed, not the RCC. Hopefully, except where YOU bring that "city" (the RCC) up... others will be able to simply move on past "her"... and focus on the other. When YOU bring her up, though, you should expect to receive comments from others as to her "uncleanness." You really should expect nothing less. Especially since YOU have absolutely NO problems pointing out the uncleanness of the WTBTS. Which is fine with US. We just think you should be aware of the three fingers pointing back at the RCC, is all.

Shame on you... for ALL of this... while professing to be a member of the Body of Christ. ALL of this, however, PROVES that you have not yet attained to that position, dear one. But... the Door stands open, still. May you, then... HEAR... when the SPIRIT and his Bride SAY to you (and by say, I mean SAY... as in WORDS):

[b]"Come! Take life's water... free!" [b]

But you would have to come to the One who pours that water out, dear Char... and there is only One who does: the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), who is the Son and Christ of the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies.




Whether or not you can understand this, we DO love you and pray that you can have eyes and ears to understand that what you see in the WTBS, you will some day see the same with the RCC so that our Lord Jaheshua, the holy one, son of JAH, the Most holy one of Israel will be ENOUGH for you

Love to you always
Justmom