xjwsforChrist

As always Shel, thank you for you views
Just one thing and I know you don't do it with any bad intention, but using the term "true believer" is a bit too, well...I wanna saw "JW'ish" but the reality is that too many use it, so I will say that we always need to remember that WE don't decide who are "true believers", Our Lord does.

On a side note:
On the day Our Lord tells me to stop using the bible to help people come to Him, I will.
As of yet He hasn't ( it may because I use it only when it is used against Us).

Peace to you this morning Paul,

I apologize if I misunderstood. Yes CHRIST is the fulfillment of everything written in scripture prior to Him about Him. I was referencing the NT writers and the value of it ( or lack of) since the NT does not contain scripture (other than revelation).
All eyes and hears were to be on CHRIST now as the law would be written on hearts. He was glorified, given all power and authority and He speaks to us all individually. No need for a book or a law that one could never hold up.

Thank you for this, love your sister in Christ, Kim

I understand where you're coming from, dear P (peace to you, luv!). But there is a difference between a believer and a true believer. One example I personally know of:

I was talking to a JW man in the parking lot of my local market a few years ago. As I'm sure you can guess, every WTBTS he came up with was able to be reasonably overturned. This did sit well with him. Of course, we got to the topic of Christ speaking, which exasperated the man even more than HE cared. I know this because of his surprise at his own words. He was adamant that Christ doesn't speak. CAN'T speak. When I asked him how it was that we could hear demons speak but not Christ, his response was fascinating; however, I am SURE most "believers" agree with him. His answer was:

"Because he's DEAD!"

Ummmmm... so much for my Lord's resurrection, which I am SURE... because I was once a JW and know what they teach... that he TAUGHT/TEACHES that Christ rose from the dead. And ascended into heaven. And sits at the right hand of God. If that is TRUE, though, how can he be DEAD??

Now, try to tell this man he isn't a believer? I have no doubt he would respond as you have, luv, or similar: that we don't decide/know who are true believers. But that's not entirely true, is it? I also had at the time (and have, if he has not changed his position) NO doubt that that man was/is NOT a TRUE believer. Because the person HE believed IN was, apparently, a dead person. Christ, however, the Word of God... is ALIVE. AND... he SPEAKS! So, someone who says he does NOT... CANNOT be a TRUE believer (IN Christ). Can they?



You are absolutely right - we do not DECIDE. But that does not mean we don't KNOW, does it? Did our dear Lord not give us ways to know ("By their FRUITS you will know them!")? Does he not tell us who such ones are NOW? I can quote, if you need, where Paul, Peter, John, and Jude made the distinction, even naming some by name. The Body was told that wicked me would arise from among them. you really believe that our dear Lord didn't reveal to his TRUE servants who the FALSE ones were?? Do you REALLY believe that, say, WTBTS GB member, Geoffrey Jackson is a TRUE believer... of God OR Christ? That ANY of them are??

Our Lord said he wouldn't keep ANYTHING that HE knew from his friends. And we KNOW that HE knew what was "in a man." To say someone is not a true believer isn't wrong, dear one... IF THAT IS THE TRUTH. BUT, as you SAY, one can only KNOW that... IF one has RECEIVED that truth FROM the Truth. Yes? Else, how did Peter know that Ananias had lied to (and so proven himself FALSE... versus TRUE... to) JAH and Christ (holy) spirit? Would not JAH's spirit... or Christ himself... have REVEALED that to him?

What of those who kill others, saying "God" told them to do it? Or who called themselves "christians", yet, will take up arms and kill other "christians" for the sake of their (worldly) king and/or country? Can we not SEE... by their WORKS... that their claim is FALSE?

We are not to JUDGE others, no. But saying that one is not a true believer is not judging them. Indeed, if everyone was a TRUE believer, what is the purpose of OUR ministry? WHO would we even NEED to speak with, share what WE have been given? Is it not UNbelievers that we are sent to? And do not many, if not most of them, claim to be BELIEVERS? Else, is it not solely Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists... and any others who have NO knowledge... or BELIEF... in Christ... that we should go to? If calling oneself makes one a "christian," then there TRULY is no need for the Bible, dear one, because such one ALREADY know ABOUT Christ, yes?

But... is what they "know" TRUE? If not, then how can they BE a TRUE believer? How can someone who believes in lies be a believer in the Truth??



Smile. I don't think that's what folks are saying to do here, luv. At least, I'm not. Because it is IN the Bible that such folks can read where Christ SAYS they should come to him, versus searching/studying the scriptures. But such folks are, UNTIL THEY DO COME TO CHRIST... UNbelievers. It is WHEN, dear one, THEY stop relying on the Bible... because THEY now LISTEN TO HIM... that they BECOME TRUE BELIEVERS. Because THEN... they are walking BY FAITH... based on listening to the VOICE of the Fine Shepherd himself with their ears... and NOT BY SIGHT... based on what they READ about him with their eyes).



Dear P... you know I would never lie to you. About anything. And I am not about what I am about to share with you now. I went to our dear Lord about this, about how to help you "see" what we mean. And his response was WONDERFUL to my ears! I am not sure how wonderful it will be to yours... or, better stated, to your eyes... because you're going to have to read it. He said, in response to my question to him about your statement above:

"Have I not so told him, child? Has he not read my words? What does HE believe my words mean, when I said, 'You search the scriptures because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life. And these are the ones that bear witness about me; yet, you do not want to me to have life."

I responded that I THOUGHT you believed what most of here believe: that it is not searching/studying the scriptures that lead to everlasting life, but coming to and getting to know HIM, that does. He responded:

"He understands that, yes. But he does not SEE what I mean, because he does not LISTEN to my words, so as to OBEY them. Even when he READS them."

What he mean was even though YOU read his words, dear one, YOU still don't SEE... discern... understand... KNOW... so that you understand what he... and we... are TRYING to help you see: NOT that you shouldn't use the Bible to help unbelievers who NEED to see things "in writing," but that the Bible does not lead people to Christ... nor does it make believers. That it's only a tool for those who need to SEE (it in writing) and so walk by SIGHT... versus those who are able to HEAR and so walk by FAITH.

He said I was to share the account of the Ethiopian Eunuch with you and that Eunuch didn't become a believer in Christ BECAUSE OF WHAT HE READ. He became one... when Philip PERSONALLY explained to him the TRUTH about the One he was reading ABOUT:

"Now the spirit of of the Lord spoke and directed Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which is a title, not a name, and is similar to the Egyptian term "Pharaoh", but applied to Ethiopian queens). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. The spirit said to Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”

Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.

“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."

Notice, (1) the Ethiopian was a "believer," as all Jews considered themselves believers (and he was a Jew; hence, his sojourn to Jerusalem TO WORSHIP and his READING ISAIAH); and (2) the Ethiopian had the scriptures... although only Isaiah, most assuredly from the Septuagint... but Philip did not. Philip... WAS LED BY THE SPIRIT, which he HEARD... and OBEYED.

Let's continue:

"This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:

“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”

"The eunuch asked Philip, “Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?”

"Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about [Jesus]."

The man HAD a Bible, luv - at least, a book from it. Yet, he didn't understand who he was reading about. Philip did not have a bible - he had HOLY SPIRIT. And by LISTENING TO AND OBEYING that spirit... HE taught the Eunuch. And WITHOUT a Bible. How do we KNOW? Because:

1. The NT hadn't been written yet; and
2. There was no OTHER book (of the Bible) to explain Isaiah!

Philip was able to explain who Isaiah was speaking about... BECAUSE THAT VERY ONE DIRECTED HIM TO THE EUNUCH.

And we can know it was our Lord's spirit... and not an angel (which two terms were OFTEN misinterchanged during the copying of both the OT and the NT) by two things:

1. Verse 29; and
2. Philip didn't SEE anyone. The ONLY Ones who spoke (and speak) and was/is NOT seen at the time (of speaking) was and is JAH and/or Christ (Matthew 17:5; 1 Timothy 1:17; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 11:27; . Angels were (and are) ALWAYS seen when they were sent to speak to someone.

Anyway, I have shared with you hear all that I have been given to share on this matter, at least at this time. This is NOT meant to be an attack on you OR on YOUR faith. As always, it is an attempt to perhaps emulate Priscilla and Aquila ([b]Acts 18:24-26), albeit perhaps not as succinctly or diplomatically. I do my best, I know you know that, so I hope you will continue to bear with me and tolerate my very far from perfect attempts to share truth with you.

Please, though, don't let my (or anyone's) attempts run you off. You are dear and valuable to us, more than I can say, and I KNOW EVERYONE here would agree. We do perhaps have some WTBTS "baggage" in how we present, but I believe some, if not a lot, of that is necessary. Because it IS primarily JWs/exJWs that we speak with. And for most of THEM, that "forehead of flint" is a necessary and valuable asset. We may not always know when (or how) to turn it off... and I believe we're ALL working on that, but our words are always, always, shared with you and EVERYONE here out of love.

As always, the greatest of love... and peace... to you and your dear, dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Please, though, don't let my (or anyone's) attempts run you off. You are dear and valuable to us, more than I can say, and I KNOW EVERYONE here would agree. We do perhaps have some WTBTS "baggage" in how we present, but I believe some, if not a lot, of that is necessary. Because it IS primarily JWs/exJWs that we speak with. And for most of THEM, that "forehead of flint" is a necessary and valuable asset. We may not always know when (or how) to turn it off... and I believe we're ALL working on that, but our words are always, always, shared with you and EVERYONE here out of love.
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Agreed absolutely. Thank you Shel and peace to you my sister.

Yes Paul, I appreciate you my brother for your company and sharing here with me as well.
And I apologize if I come off in any way as unloving, I do not mean to.

Have a great evening you all ( peace to you) love your sister and fellow servant of CHRIST, Kim

Ummmm....



Sorry, folks. Typing (too?) fast. Sure there are other typos so please try to "hear" what was meant and if not, let me know and I'll try to correct/clarify.

Peace to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Peace to you, At!


Okay so here are a couple of questions after watching the video, that the Spirit asked me:

Who does the man say is speaking to him?

Who or what is the man witnessing to, and who are we (in Christ) supposed to be witnessing to?




There are a few other things that we can talk about, including his friend, the one he calls a prophet, but maybe start with those and if you want to discuss more, then we can do that too!


Peace and love to you Ataloa,
your sister, and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Shelby, I was sitting here trying and trying to figure out what could possibly be wrong with what you quoted here. I decided finally to ask our Lord what I am not seeing, and He told me to go look up at the original. Which is where the typo was that you corrected here. Lol.


Peace to you!
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Peace to everyone!

There are such good comments and information here, but my mind is a little boggled over the bible part. I guess ultimately the bottom line for me is that no, it did not lead me to Christ. But it is hard to separate all that out in my mind. I'm trying to imagine if we only still just had scripture and not all the other books that were not inspired.

Paul, I hope you are not feeling beat up; I am grateful for your contribution to the thread, which otherwise, would have died a week ago.



Sometimes he says it is God or of God; other places he clarifies that to mean Christ or through Christ, or possibly angels; I really cannot remember everything I've heard or read of his, since I have watched it all and read the comments several months ago, and I do not retain information very long.



Well, he's definitely telling everyone to read the bible; that it is the truth. And we should be witnesses of Christ, who we know is the Truth.

This question and answer stuff is easier for me Tammy; thank you. lol.

I think this is what I thought - that he was 'new' to reading the bible since his NDE and that possibly he just needed some things corrected. But now I've seen some information that I believe he said all that happened about 12 years ago when he started reading the bible and going to churches. So this puts a different perspective on it for me. It was just that the he was told by the angels he saw in the NDE to finally tell his testimony all these years later.

Here is something I just read in the comments today that I identify with:



He doesn't answer my questions, either. But he does let me 'see' some things that I read here and other places. That's what drives me to the bible, youtube, etc. is try to get questions answered that I'm really interested in.

I'm not saying it's not my own fault someway; it is just that I cannot have a conversation with Him as some of you do; I can only speak with Him and not know if He is listening.

Peace to One and to All:

Here below is a listing a just a few texts in the book of Acts telling of the early history of the Christian congregation(s) and of individual interactions between God and men, between Christ and men, between angels and men. Some of these texts are evidence that indeed Christ DOES speak, and for various purposes. And these texts are just OF THE RECORDED events. How many more of these events have occurred but haven't been recorded? For a so-called Christian religion or individual to say that Christ does not speak, but ONLY demons do, is utter stupidity, especially considering the biblical texts as shown below. God, Christ, and their angels, are quite active among humans. And, we must not forget that the first person Christ spoke to after he was resurrected was a woman. Hope you enjoy. . . . Respectfully, Armand

Acts 1:5, 8

Acts 3:22, 23

Acts 8:26, 29

Acts 9:4, 5, 10, 11, 15, 27

Acts 10:3, 13, 15, 19, 22, 30

Acts 11:7, 9, 12, 13

Acts 12:7, 8, 11

Acts 13:2, 4

Acts 16:6

Acts 20:23

Acts 21:11

Acts 22:7, 14-21

Acts 23:11

Acts 26:14-16

Acts 27:23-24

Now THIS is a most interesting comment, dear At (peace to you, dear lady!). Because we shouldn't NEED even the scriptures! We HAVE them... because of Israel's LACK OF FAITH. You might recall, JAH Himself was going to come down and speak to the people of Israel PERSONALLY. He even gave Moses directions to give the Israelites to prepare themselves (please READ this!):

"On the first day of the third month after the Israelites left Egypt—on that very day—they came to the Desert of Sinai. After they set out from Rephidim, they entered the Desert of Sinai, and Israel camped there in the desert in front of the mountain.

Then Moses went up to God, and JaHVeH called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words JaHVeH had commanded him to speak. The people all responded together, “We will do everything JaHVeH has said.” So Moses brought their answer back to JaHVeH.

JaHVeH said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.” Then Moses told JaHVeH what the people had said.

And JaHVeH said to Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes and be ready by the third day, because on that day JaHVeH will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people."

Once Moses reported back that the Israelites had AGREED to His covenant, He (JAH) went from saying He was going to come in a dense cloud and speak to Moses so that the people could HEAR Him (do so)... to coming down and SHOWING HIMSELF TO EVERYONE.

What happened, though? Why DIDN'T He? Because the people lost their faith in Him. They had seen all that He had done to free them from Israel... all that He had done to care for them up to this point... but what He said NEXT (which Moses told to Israel, verbatim)... shook them with... FEAR:

"Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. They are to be stoned or shot with arrows

Wait... what?? They would be punished with death if they even just TOUCHED the mountain??? NO!!! That is what the false christs and false prophets... and LIARS... teach! It was NOT a punishment! It was a SAFETY! How do we KNOW? Let's read on:

"... not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’

SOUNDS like a punishment, doesn't it? Or... does it? It was not a punishment, dear one. The REASON no person (or animal) could touch the mountain... is because they would be irradiated! And so... NO HAND COULD THEN TOUCH THEM. They had to be killed with a stone or an arrow, but not with hands! Why? Because THEY... would pass on the poisonous IRRADIATION. The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... HIMSELF... was going to descend upon the mountain. How much "dynamic energy" would that have brought WITH?

So, He gave the directive that no man or animal was to touch the mountain when he descended... and if one did, they had to be executed. For the sake of EVERYONE else. It wasn't about retribution for disobeying - it was about potential killing off the ENTIRE nation... BY disobeying!

And so He told [Moses to tell] them:

"Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”

Meaning, once the horn sounded... THEN it was SAFE... for ANYONE to touch the mountain. But NOT before.

Well, the people were okay with this... at FIRST:

"After Moses had gone down the mountain to the people, he consecrated them, and they washed their clothes. Then he said to the people, “Prepare yourselves for the third day. Abstain from sexual relations.”

On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because JaHVeH descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.

JaHVeH descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up and JaHVeH said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see JaHVeH and many of them perish. The priests who approach JaHVeH must be clean else JaHVeH will break out against them.”

They would perish? He would break out against them? Why? To punish them? No! Because His "dynamic energy" would "reach out" to anything that tried to MOVE SUDDENLY... without HIS knowledge or permission. And we have modern day PROOF that THAT kind of energy does JUST that:

http://listverse.com/2010/03/25/10-famo ... radiation/

So, again, He was TRYING to warn and PROTECT them. Let's continue:

"Moses said to JaHVeH, “The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, ‘Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy.’”

JaHVeH replied, “Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to JaHVeH, or [he] will break out against them.”

So Moses went down to the people and told them.

So, okay, JAH is certain now that Moses relayed the message and no one was going to break out of the group and try to get a glimpse of JAH before He was ready (and able) to show Himself to the people (without killing them all). But, then what? Well... the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH Himself... speaks to the people. Exodus 20:1-18, 22

How did the people take it, though? Did they go, "HOORAY, God Himself is speaking to us! We can literally hear His voice!!"? Nope. Oh, no. No, they did not. Rather:

"When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance and said to Moses, “YOU speak to us and we will listen to YOU. But DO NOT have GOD speak to us because we might die!”

Yep. They were SO chicken... that they didn't WANT JAH to speak to them!! Moses even tried to calm them down:

"Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

[Wait, JAH was "testing" them? To keep them from "sinning"? Well, yeah, sort of - He KNEW they were hard-hearted, hard-headed, and stiff-necked (heck, they proved THAT just 3 days out when they started whining about not having any meat! AND in about a month they were going to build a golden calf, call IT "JaHVeH", give IT credit for bringing them out of Egypt, and worship IT!). They acted like inexperienced children... and so He did what most parents do when they have hard-headed children: use fear. Because LOVE (and KINDNESS)... doesn't WORK with hard-headed, hard-hearted, and STIFF-necked children. He'd TRIED that... with Adham... and with these when He brought them OUT of Egypt. Their lack of LOVE, however, led them to COMPLAIN rather than be grateful, which showed what KIND of "children" they TRULY (wink at dear P - peace to you!) WERE.]

Now, again, the Israelites had seen what JAH had done to the Pharaoh of that time, his army, the people of Egypt, the land, etc. So, they KNEW He was powerful. But that had also seen His MERCY... UPON them! So, they SHOULD have KNOWN that they REALLY had nothing to fear!

But even Moses explanation ("There's nothing to fear; Dad's just trying to scare you because you DON'T LISTEN!") didn't change their hard-heads, nope. Because:

"The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was."

So, here you have Israel... with NO Bible, NO written Law... but rather the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH HIMSELF, speaking to them... and what did they do? Said, "Oh, ooh, ummmm... see, no. Uh-uh. Tell you what, Moses: how 'bout YOU go talk to God FOR us, then come back and tell us what He said? Yeah, that's it - YOU go. We'll stay right here. Because we're really just too CHICKEN to speak with God our own selves. I mean, shoot, we might DIE. So, no... no, you go, man. And whatever He tells you to tell us, well, then, we'll obey that."

Do you SEE? They didn't NEED a mediator - they MADE one. CHOSE him. JAH didn't choose Moses to mediate between Him and Israel - ISRAEL made that choice! And many today are making the SAME choice... by rejecting the Mediator JAH Himself CHOSE... His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA (the MischaJAH)... for THE BIBLE. The BIBLE is the MEDIATOR they have chosen!

And that is why your comment was so interesting to me, dear At. Because even if we had only the scriptures and not all of the other books, we would be no better off. ISRAEL HAD JAH HIMSELF. THEN... they had the scriptures! And yet... they STILL couldn't "see" Christ when he CAME to them... and STILL can't hear him now!

But that is not to be the case with US. As Simon Lazarus, the writer of the letter to the Hebrews, wrote (Hebrews 11:18-29):

"YOU have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded (“If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”). That sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”

"YOU have come to Mount Zion, to the [beloved] city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. YOU have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. YOU have come to GOD, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to [Jesus] the mediator of a NEW covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

"See to it that YOU do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

"At THAT time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain."

What cannot be shaken? GOD's kingdom, the NEW Jerusalem, which is of the SPIRIT realm:

"Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken

And is CANNOT be, we are not to be in FEAR, but:

"... let us be thankful, and so worship God in a way that pleases HIM, with RESPECT and awe..."

Why? Because...

".... our “God is a consuming fire.”

A consuming fire that punishes? No. A fire that cleanses. Removes the dross. What, though, if one's "dross" is, say, "to the bone"? Then that "fire" will consume TO THE BONE. It MUST. Because it must remove ALL IMPURITY. NOT in flesh... but in SPIRIT.

Hence, we have to cleanse the INSIDE of [our] cups... so that there is nothing for that "fire"... JAH's dynamic energy... to seek out (and destroy). But... we can't. Not by ourselves, and not completely. We need a "cleanser." Something that can "wash away" the errors of our SPIRIT, as well as the corruption of the flesh. And there is only one thing that can do that: God's BLOOD. His HOLY SPIRIT. And there is only One who can give us that blood: His Son, THE Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). We CANNOT do it by ourselves... and we CANNOT do it completely. We need him:

"You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from ME gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see." Revelation 3:17, 18

Notice, he didn't say, "Read the scriptures/Bible and you will become rich... cover your shameful nakedness... see.

[Jesus] answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you LIVING water.”

“Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:10, 13, 14

Notice, he didn't say "Everyone who reads the scriptures/Bible will never thirst." Or that the water "in the scriptures/Bible will become in them a spring..."

"On the last and greatest day of the festival, [Jesus] stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the spirit, which [b][u]those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the spirit had not yet been given, since [Jesus] had not yet been glorified." John 7:37-39

Notice, he didn't say, "Let anyone who is thirst read the scriptures/Bible." Or "Whoever believes the scriptures/Bible... rivers of living water will flow from within them."

But he DID say:

"You SEARCH/STUDY the Scriptures diligently because you THINK that in THEM you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." John 5:39, 40

And WHY did they refuse... and do people refuse YET? Because... THEY ARE LOOKING TO THE BIBLE (as the mediator between them and God)... AND NOT TO CHRIST (the TRUE Mediator between man and God, because he is the ONLY Way to get to/know/see/hear the Father)!

But... they just don't "get" that. Don't hear... and get the SENSE of that. Even though it is the TRUTH... and was said BY the Truth. They lean upon their own understanding, as such has been given them by those who TOUT the Bible as "the word of God." That is a LIE. God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, has only ONE Word. ONE. His Son. The BIBLE even tells us that. John 1:1, 14; Revelation 19:13 Yet, they don't even "listen" to the Bible, the very "word" they CLAIM to be God's.

If the Bible IS the word of God... why don't they listen to IT, then?????? It SAYS that Christ is the Word of God. NOWHERE does it say that it is... or that "scripture" is. They don't listen... because they don't WANT to. They WANT to believe what they believe... EVEN if it's WRONG.

And that is why the scriptures, the Bible... cannot make christians. It cannot give holy spirit... it cannot give life... and it cannot lead ANYONE to God OR Christ. The ONLY way to God... is through His Son. And the ONLY way to His Son... is by means of the Father. NOT the Bible. THEY choose, not we. And they choose... those who LISTEN to the voice of the Fine Shepherd:

"MY sheep KNOW MY VOICE."

And it is because of knowing that voice... and the One to which it belongs... that they are led... into ALL truth. Including THIS truth, about the Bible.

I hope that helps, dear, dear At. I know it seems hard to hear, but it truly isn't. You just have to get past your fear. Fear of what? Being killed? Maybe. Appearing crazy/foolish? Could be. Uncertainty? Definitely. But THAT, dear sister, is where faith comes in: the assured expectation of the thing hoped for, the EVIDENT demonstration of reality, THOUGH NOT BEHELD (seen with the EYES).

When one can walk by FAITH... one no longer NEEDS to walk by SIGHT. And so, one no longer needs to READ, SEARCH, STUDY the SCRIPTURES/BIBLE... which requires physical "sight." One only needs to LISTEN.

May you be given ears to hear and get the sense of the truths I have shared with you here, dear lady. And may any here who don't yet have them but truly WISH them be given ears to hear with the Spirit, Christ, and his bride say to THEM:

"COME! TAKE Life's (Christ's - John 14:6) water[/b]... his blood and the blood of his Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, His breath, His seed... His LIFE... which life/water is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Chosen One, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA (the MischaJah)... FREE!"

Peace to you ALL... and to your dear households!

Your servant, sister, and FELLOW slave OF that One, my Lord, Master, King, Savior, and Redeemer,

Shel

Dear 'At... they didn't even listen to Christ when he was HERE. Standing right in their midst. And I don't just mean the Jews. The Jews, the Samaritans, the Romans, the Greeks, and many others. True, many DID receive him... but many, many... many more... didn't. If they couldn't "see" and so come to him when he was here in the FLESH... how do we suppose some will do so just by reading a book that tells (some truth) about him? Think, my sister... and LISTEN. Proverbs 8:4-11

Not arguing with any of that. I know Christ is Truth and He speaks - I have heard Him.

Yes!



Ataloa, I am not worried about you following after this guy. But perhaps you might also remember that you heard truth in the wts. No hell. No trinity. Those tend to be the two big ones. And you know that these are a lure... designed to mislead even the elect, just as Christ warned us. The wts is not the only one who has some truth. They ALL have some truth in them. Some have more than others. It is that bit of truth that lure some people to them, and away from Christ. But it is the lies surrounding those truths that give them away.

Some even have miraculous signs to go with whatever it is that they are saying. Some time back there was this person who seemed to be saying something that conflicted with what I understood from Christ... and this man went on an assignment and he asked for specific signs so that he could know that God really wanted him to do these things... and then he was given these signs (according to him at least). This threw me, and I wondered if perhaps I was the one who was mistaken in what I was hearing and doing. I researched a bit and saw that the other things he said were not in line with Christ, and of course he also never said that Christ spoke to him, but rather that God told him to do these things. Still... those signs threw me (or at least his claim of those signs) But then I sort of shook my head, and set it all aside.

I had to follow my Lord. Doesn't matter what others were saying or doing, or what signs accompany them. I must follow Christ, and His voice, no matter what.
Directly after that, my Lord showed me this passage (that I had never seen before):

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them,"you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3


I even knew, but allowed my own fear to cause me to overlook, that signs and wonders could accompany a false prophet. The second beast out of the earth performs miraculous signs and wonders as well, but is false. 1914 was a big sign to me from the wts, even though it is also deceptive, and it kept me with them longer than I might have remained otherwise. Because even when I knew some things they taught were false, I was.. "but... but... 1914!"


You know the same thing with regard to truth: they all have some truth, and that is what misleads those who are seeking truth, even the elect, if possible. But Christ has no part in lies. So no matter what anyone else is teaching or saying, you remain in HIM.

Also, I'm not sure if identifying with someone based on what they say they can't do is the best reason to pay them any mind ; )

(just teasing you, Ataloa, I know that you were drawn to his posts based on the bits of truth that he does know)

This man states that he cannot ask questions and receive answers. But you know that we can ask questions and Christ does answer, even if you might be having trouble hearing or learning to hear those answers. Sometimes we have a hard time hearing the answer, and sometimes we don't hear the answer right away and think it is not coming. I have waited a long time - as in years - sometimes for an answer to a question, because I had other things I needed to learn before I could BEAR to hear the answer to the question I asked at first. But if you ask something, then don't give up on Him if you do not receive (or are unable to yet hear) the answer. Show faith, and know that you will be answered when the time is right (according to His purpose) and when you CAN hear.



I don't doubt that this man saw what he said he saw, and he does describe that much of it was from when he was a child, and it may even have been from God or Christ or an angel from Christ. But it does not seem to me as though he turned to or remained in Christ to understand these things truthfully, or to be led into all truth. Instead he turned to the bible, and whatever church he chose as well.



Peace to you both dear sisters, and to you all,
your servant and sister and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Thanks for your kind words as always Shel and no, I don't ever feel "beat up" LOL

My faith in Our Lord is untouchable.

I am surprised that Our Lord said those things to you since He KNOWS that I don't use the bible for MY understanding, for that I always ask HIM.
I use the bible to help me with others, to help guide them to HIM and since they use the bible and they view it as authoritative, then I must use it to because any other message will be, if not ignored, downplayed.
I don't know who you guys here tend to debate and discuss things with but mine tend to be with either atheists ( always non-believers or former believers with desire to free people from "god") or fellow Christians that base their faith in God on the bible.
As you can see, stating to them that "Christ told me so" carries very little if any weight and as such, the bible becomes an indispensable tool.
My own personal feelings on the bible are:
It is a wonderful historical-sociographical account of the OT people and the first generation apostles and what they did and taught.
I came to Christ without it ( or perhaps more correctly, in spite of it) and I don't feel that everyone NEEDS it BUT I do realize that for those that rely on it and view it as authoritative that I need to start from there.

Trying to explain Our Lord to a non-believer is like trying to explain the colour red to a blind person BUT I find that with the bible, I can bring a context of sorts inot this and it is a starting point.


I know that my journey is far different that those of you here, I was told that from the very start.
I have made peace with that.

I love you all dearly for you faith in Our Lord and your kind words to me.

Well, you're a better "man" than I am, then, luv (LOLOL and peace to you!), because it CAN feel like that at times. I know I certainly have felt beat up (on another forum, though - LOLOL!). But I also know it comes with the territory so I just "lick my wounds", get some rest, and then return to the "ring" - LOLOL!



Yes! Which I is why I'm SO glad you're here!



I don't think it was about that, luv. I think it was about "needing" the Bible (for ANYTHING - ourselves OUR to teach other BELIEVERS). That was the point of what I shared with dear At (peace to you, dear lady!) above: the scriptures are for UNbelievers, those who LACK FAITH. The only reason we HAVE writings/scriptures is because ISRAEL didn't want to hear from JAH Himself! "No, no, YOU go and talk with Him, Moses, then YOU come back and tell us what He said!" And Israel had Moses to speak/listen to JAH for them... rather than doing it themselves. BUT... JAH knew that they wouldn't REALLY listen to Moses EITHER. Because they LACKED FAITH. SO... He "put it in writing."

Yet, they STILL didn't listen (to the writings) and most who profess to be "believers" don't listen NOW. Because if they DID, they would KNOW... they don't NEED the Bible. So, it is more about your belief that BELIEVERS need the Bible. TRUE believers do NOT. It is UNbelievers, who CALL themselves "believers" who do.

And so the response was due to your position as to "TRUE believers" versus "believers." Do you see?

I use the bible to help me with others, to help guide them to HIM and since they use the bible and they view it as authoritative, then I must use it to

Yes, luv, but those folks aren't TRUE believers. Because if they WERE... TRUE... BELIEVERS... then what you say next would NOT occur:



It IS ignored/downplayed because they are NOT... TRUE believers. Rather, they are people who walk by SIGHT... because they LACK faith. LACK... TRUE belief. IN the Truth. Their faith... is the BIBLE. Not in the TRUTH (Christ).



Here is where you're not hearing, luv: those who desire to free people from "god" were never TRULY believers. If they WERE, their faith would be like your's: untouchable. THAT is my point.



NOR are these "christians." Again, christians are those who have RECEIVED holy spirit. "Anointed/chosen" ones. IF they have received holy spirit (and so are NOW christians)... they base their faith in God ON THE ONE WHO GAVE THEM THAT SPIRIT: His SON. They do NOT base their faith in GOD... ON THE BIBLE. Even YOU acknowledge this about yourself, yes? They don't, because, as John wrote:

"I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for YOU, the anointing YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to teach YOU. But as his ANOINTING teaches YOU about ALL things and as that anointing is REAL, NOT counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him."

Did you notice what he said first, though? "... those who are trying to lead you ASTRAY." How were they trying to do that? By teaching them that something OTHER than the anointing they'd received would teach them. Something... like the BIBLE. ANYTHING else besides the anointing.

And so, while you may use the Bible the help others, those others are UNbelievers, luv. Not TRUE believers. Yet, even in doing so, what we should be TEACHING them is NOT that the Bible is the word of God, or that they need the Bible to come to Christ, get to know (of/about) him, etc. We are to teach them that CHRIST is the ONLY Way... the ONLY One we should be listening to and following... that we AND THEY... don't NEED the Bible... because WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN A SON. And THAT is the ONLY One we should be listening to, looking to, following... AND THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS SO. THAT is the only BENEFIT of the Bible: to tell us NOT to look to IT, but to the SON. Kiss the SON!

And any who tell others different are doing as John wrote: leading other ASTRAY. AWAY from Christ. Because they are leading them TO the Bible... because THAT is what such ones become DEPENDENT upon. What they LOOK to... to "know" God, "know" Christ, "know" Truth. Which is why they KNOW... NOTHING AT ALL.



It only carries little weight with NON/UNbelievers, luv. With TRUE believers, it rings TRUE. They KNOW it's true! HOW? ONE way:

"MY sheep KNOW... MY voice."

Since he IS the Truth, and HIS voice ALWAYS speaks what is true and what is upright... then for someone to say to a BELIEVER that "Christ spoke/told/said to me"... they would KNOW... by means of HIM... whether that was indeed true or NOT.



I understand that's how you feel, dear one. Our dear Lord (and, of course, I) just want you the get the TRUTH, that such ones who DO rely on it are NOT... TRUE believers. They CAN'T be, luv. Because, again, if they WERE... they would rely on HIM and him ALONE. Your "personal feelings" don't dictate TRUTH, my dear, dear brother. And THAT is what our dear Lord is trying to help you "see": that you are stumbling over this... and stumbling OTHERS... over HIM... BECAUSE of your "personal feelings" about this.



YES! To a NON-believer! But it is really our job to be concerned? All WE need do is share the TRUTH... and let JAH and Christ "worry" about whether the person is able to "see". The color red... OR Christ. Yes?



You can bring context in, perhaps. But a starting point to WHAT? To more faith... IN THE BIBLE. Because THAT is what you use as the "mediator." If, however, you STICK TO YOUR GUNS... and just share the TRUTH... then they will ask for MORE. IF they are (really/ever to be) BELIEVERS. Because they will hear HIM "call" them. NOT you or me... or the Bible.



I am not sure our journeys are do different, luv. I don't doubt that the TERRITORY through which we "journey" (you, cities of atheists/we cities of false christs/prophets) is far different, though. But while your journey is definitely among NON/UNbelievers, ours is among those who CLAIM to believers... but BELIE that belief by their works and lack of FAITH. It this those, who CLAIM to be believers... but are NOT... that we call to. So that perhaps they may BECOME believers. TRUE believers.



Thank you, dear P, and please know we love you, too. Not "like" a brother, but AS our dear brother.

As always, the greatest of love and peace to YOU... and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Thanks Shel, truly.
It is tough sometimes and I feel a bit overwhelmed with a sense of "hopelessness" in regards to those that don't believe.
I just feel I need to do more, that simply telling them to listen isn't enough, I hope that by suing the bible I can get them on the road to finally listening to Him...
Maybe it is vanity and pride on my part to think that I can do this, but I just feel that I need to do something more than just say "listen to Him and follow Him".
Maybe it was because I wasn't able to reach my father before he died ( though I know his spirit is with Our Lord) and that I am still not able to reach my sister and mother.
I don't know...

Just want you and everyone here to know how much you all mean to me.