xjwsforChrist

It is not that it is a sensitive subject... it is just that we are not speaking of the same thing. All parties have agreed to this.

I can agree that what you have described for yourself is prayer, Char.

It is those who are describing something other than prayer, who are being told that we are wrong to do so.


Anyway... agreeing to disagree... and moving on... hopefully ; )


Peace,
tammy

Exactly that. It's tomahto, tomayto, the difference not in nationality but in different traditions and understandings.

Call it prayer, call it conversation or anything you like! Makes no difference. Talking with Christ or talking to and listening...all one and the same good thing!

Just seen your reply, Tammy. That's OK. It's just one point of view over another, Tammy. Christ is Christ and talking to/with him/praying is talking to/with him/praying.

I know you don't see it that way, but why does the name matter so much to you? Your tradition is different. You say "we are told"...may I ask by whom, when, where and how? We are all different, different accents, different education, different countries, different ways of looking at things. But we are all humans and god is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, all over the world, so, since we are all here explicitly FOR his only Son Our Lord Jesus Christ, what's the problem?

You have sidewalks, we have pavements. You have a trunk in your car, we have a boot. They're all the same thing though!

And I am not saying you are wrong at all! I am saying we are all right!

Please note that the following conversation is not done to argue... but to explain. No anger, no sensitivity, just conversation.



It matters because it is a way of dismissing that our Lord speaks with us, in the way that we have described. HE initiates conversations, answers questions, speaks to us, etc. The kind of conversation that you frown upon, Char (and just read your comments from this thread and a couple others as to how you have stated that you feel about this 'phone conversation' thing)... and that many other people frown upon as well, when it comes to truly hearing Him speak... rather than sort of hearing him THROUGH some other medium.

It is not a tradition for me. It is not a tomayto/tomahto. It just is what it is, and some of us are trying to explain it.

I get that traditionally, some are taught that prayer encompasses everything to do with any communication to or from God... including visions, dreams, etc. Do you consider those prayer then also? That doesn't make any sense to me. A vision is a vision. A dream is a dream. A prayer is a prayer. My Lord speaking TO me, is my Lord speaking TO me. He is not praying to me, or even with me. He is speaking TO me.

We say that God answers our prayers. We don't say that He prayed to us, right?



I am not sure what you mean here?



Yes, they are. These are different words to describe the same thing. Like synonyms. If that is what we were talking about, then no problem.

But we are speaking about two different things that some are trying to call one thing.



I don't know if that helps at all.

Peace,
tammy

FYI:
Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity, an object of worship, or a spiritual entity through deliberate communication. Prayer can be a form of religious practice, may be either individual or communal and take place in public or in private. It may involve the use of words or song. When language is used, prayer may take the form of a hymn, incantation, formal creed, or a spontaneous utterance in the praying person. There are different forms of prayer such as petitionary prayer, prayers of supplication, thanksgiving, and worship/praise. Prayer may be directed towards a deity, spirit, deceased person, or lofty idea, for the purpose of worshipping, requesting guidance, requesting assistance, confessing sins or to express one's thoughts and emotions. Thus, people pray for many reasons such as personal benefit or for the sake of others. Yoga is also a common form of prayer.
Most major religions involve prayer in one way or another. Some ritualize the act of prayer, requiring a strict sequence of actions or placing a restriction on who is permitted to pray, while others teach that prayer may be practiced spontaneously by anyone at any time.
Scientific studies regarding the use of prayer have mostly concentrated on its effect on the healing of sick or injured people. Meta-studies of the studies in this field have been performed showing evidence only for no effect or a potentially small effect. For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that there is "no discernable effect" while a 2007 systemic review of intercessory prayer reported inconclusive results, noting that 7 of 17 studies had "small, but significant, effect sizes" but the review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies failed to produce significant findings.[1][2] The efficacy of petition in prayer for physical healing to a deity has been evaluated in numerous other studies, with contradictory results.[3][4][5][6] There has been some criticism of the way the studies were conducted.[7][8]

Just to clarify, I have never prayed to Christ. I reserve that for Jah, our almighty Heavenly Father, and approach Him through Christ, our mediator.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

So says a man of few words (peace to you, dear P!) - LOLOLOL! Unfortunately, I don't think everyone "gets" what you are saying. I think the difference between what you and WE are saying... and perhaps some others... is summed up in your words:



In PRAYER... one is talking to God/Christ. Which is totally fine. But most don't claim to hear God OR Christ talk BACK. CONVERSATION, however, is a two-way interchange: not only are YOU speaking to someone... but THEY are speaking BACK... to YOU! Literally. They hear YOU(R words) and you hear THE(M/their words). They don't "feel like" they hear you... and you don't "feel like" you hear them... but you both speak to and HEAR... EACH OTHER.

I know, I know: we've gone over all of this before. But since it's been brought up again in THIS thread, perhaps THIS time a light will go on for some. Perhaps not. All we can do is hope.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Very nice, Paul!

Okay then...

An example of CONVERSATION with my Lord.....

HE initiates..., You are asking me what you do about your father on law. You need to call him and reassure him of your love for him.

I say, what if he doesn't answer the phone because he knows its me? Or my mother in law answers and doesn't give the phone to him?

HE says, how do you know I have not already taken care of this situation for you? And even if they don't answer, you can leave a message or at least try. Is your heart willing to do this even if they reject your love on the phone. Then its not you their rejecting, its ME. You were obedient and showed love by calling. You receive the blessing for obeying regardless of whether they receive you or not.

I said, your right Lord , I'm sorry for my lack of faith. I will call right now.

I called and my father in law answered ( I can count on one hand how many conversations I've had with him in 15 years)... He was an elder! We talked for probably 10 minutes and he even asked how my boys were and his own son, my husband. Said to tell HIS son hello !! I almost fainted!

Of course I cried when I hung up because I was actually expecting to be hung up on. I could not believe that the way had been opened by Jah and Christ to be able to have this conversation.
Maybe hearts softening, I do not know??!!!
I PRAY SO!!!!!

I heard my Lord then say, " aren't you glad you called now? Made your day, huh?"

Now this is not a prayer. This is a conversation like you would have with an ordinary person.
This is the wonderful, beautiful privilege that we can have NOW that CHRIST being this Holy Spirit can dwell and live in us and be standing by 24/7 to guide us, teach us, discipline us, perfect us in his love!
We do not need MAN, a mediator, a go between of any sort. JUST HIM.

And our Father has provided this wonderful free service ( lol) ALL we have to do is seek, knock, ask, and HE will open up the door to us and come on IN US!

Some of you know this was a real actual experience a few weeks ago. This is how my communication is when I am open to listening clearly between me and my Lord.
This is NOT PRAYER!

I am not sure if you can understand this or even believe this, but this is how wonderful our Lord is. He is NEVER too busy for us.
Just talk to him! And understand its okay to listen and hear. He is alive and speaks.
This is how much Jah loves us. To give us this provision.

Just wanted to share
Love to you Justmom

The issue is, it seems to me, that some view prayer as one thing ( one way communication with God) and as such a two-way with Christ is NOT a prayer for them.
Yet others view ANY communication with God or Christ as prayer.

I don't think we can define for someone else what is prayer and what isn't so, we shouldn't even try.

I don't think we can define for someone else what is prayer and what isn't so, we shouldn't even try

Thank you Paul..

I was trying to define what it is to me. That there is a difference!

I am okay with whatever others want to call it for themselves. I am okay with the fact if they don't even believe this is how he works for me. But for me, I know and understand the difference.
And I appreciate so much this provision.

Love Justmom

I think the DIFFERENCE, dear, dear P (peace, luv!)... is how we are defining the word "with", here. We are explaining how we speak to him (which some might consider prayer)... AS WELL AS that and how he speaks TO us. What do we CALL his speaking to US? Some might call it "inspiration", but for us, that is not accurate, either. We certainly would never say that he is praying to US... nor do I think you would, either. Since we are talking about a TWO-way interchange then, how can it be PRAYER... if only one IS praying/can pray to the other?

And that is the part that some seem to have difficulty with. Because they pray TO Christ (which is entirely their prerogative), they assume we do, as well... and that our hearing FROM Christ falls into the category of "prayer." For us, though, is doesn't... and can't. For them, while they can BELIEVE whatever they choose to... I don't think THEY would say Christ PRAYS to them, either.

So, what IS he doing as to them? I can't say. All I can say is as to ME... and that is that he is speaking... literally... to ME. With and in his VOICE. NOT through the pages of a book, or through some "feelings"... or in essence. But literally and actually.

But he is not praying to me. And since he is not... how can it be called "prayer"?

That one doesn't understand what IS occurring is not reason enough for us that do to deny it, dear one. I am sure you understand this.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

So, what IS he doing as to them? I can't say. All I can say is as to ME... and that is that he is speaking... literally... to ME. With and in his VOICE. NOT through the pages of a book, or through some "feelings"... or in essence. But literally and actually.

Imagine how many people would be out of a job, position or title, if individuals TRULY used this avenue of communication between THEM and JAH?

Personally I would rejoice at this. IN TIME!!!!!!!!


But he is not praying to me. And since he is not... how can it be called "prayer"?

Thank you.


Love justmom

Imagine how many people would be out of a job, position or title, if individuals TRULY used this avenue of communication between THEM and JAH?

Or... ADMITTING/PROFESSING it, dear 'Mom (peace!). SOCEITY doesn't ALLOW for! In the past, so many were crucified, thrown to the lions, burned, dunked, hung, tarred and feathered... and more... for such. Today, they are called crazy, schizo, delusional, mad, charlatans, liars... and more. Sadly, SOCIETY (and even more sadly, "christian" society more than any other!)... isn't conducive to one making such a profession. And so many don't... and most outright deny it (can be done)! Rather, they foment the LIE... that Christ does NOT speak!

It is truly sad... and frustrating... because there really is nothing to fear... from HIM. Nor from anyone else, at least, not for those who DO hear, except as you said: losing jobs, businesses, even family. But that is not because of HIM... but because of the jealousy and LACK of hearing (due to the lack of FAITH) on the part of those who do NOT hear.

People fear anything they don't understand. Rather that SEEK understanding, however, they simply oppose, condemn... even kill... those who share/speak of things they don't understand. Even their own brother/father/mother/child.

We gotta keep praying for these folks, though, if for no other reason than perhaps their WAKING UP and GETTING it... will result in glory to JAH... and to His Precious Son, our dear Lord, the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

May HIS kingdom, then, come and be established HERE, in the PHYSICAL realm... so that HIS will is done HERE... as it is in the spirit realm... where ALL hear them BOTH!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Thank you, justmom. That's pretty well what I said, so I'm grateful to you.

What is so uncomfortable to simply answer with : I do not know what the difference is? Some Human Beings Believe they Know of Things other Human Beings do not.

How can This TRULY Be? We are all just human. We all teach and are taught by each other. Truly we are all equal. Why such the yearning for anything different?

Gotta run. Sweet dreams all. MySELF and my Spiritual Being, my GOD, ARE NOW RETREATING TO THE BEDROOM TO HAVE A LITTLE ONE ON ONE CONVERSATION/PRAYER AND ALSO TO GET THE MUCH NEEDED REST FOR TOMORROWS EVENT. [darn that pesky capslock]

Really, you do not have to be gifted in any special way to communicate [[EDITED to add "to YOUR Spiritual Being ]] the best way your heart can endure at this time. Remember, it can get quite emotional. Yet, you will Be Fine.

~s-Kally~

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."