xjwsforChrist

Shelby, I just noticed your signature line a post or so ago, where you told us you had no desire to belong to gated community or a country club.

Same here! But, if I may ask, how did that come into your mind? Have I missed something? I probably have, but I just can't see where such ideas have been mentioned. It seems a comment a bit out of the blue, somehow. I agree with you though. I'd hate either of those two things too. I cannot stand that kind of exclusiveness.

Perhaps, dear Char (peace to you!). Wouldn't be the first nor I think the last time, I'm sure - LOLOLOL!



I'm sorry; I must have missed that "if such is appropriate" part. I did not get that it was implied, so my apologies for missing that it was.



I am not sure everyone would agree that is a gift from God. Some have absolutely no relationship with God and yet still have this ability, while others do claim/have such a relationship but still don't possess it. I am one of the latter, sad to say. Which is why I know I need God - LOLOLOL!



I mean NO offense but SURELY you know that pure evil is NOT readily discerned... as if it were it would be manifest... and overcome out... MUCH quicker and it often it. A heinous killer would be caught BEFORE killing, if not after the first kill. Yes? Yet, how many become serial killers? I guess, though, if one has never seen/experienced "pure evil" one might have difficulty accepting the reality that it even exists.



I think depends on the definition of "ordinary instances," dear Char, which is not necessarily the same for all. I mean, I have an opinion as to the Zimmerman-Martin case. You think everyone should hear that?



But your comment kinda does suggest that, absent all of this subsequent clarification. I mean, that is the POINT, is it not, for listening in the first place? Else, folks are just... talking. Yes?



They're not alone, though, dear one. Not by a stretch. The WTBTS didn't INVENT this tendency; they only saw it, and use it. Capitalize on it, for purposes of gaining members and money. But they're not alone. EVERY aspect of human life does this. From advertising to proselytizing, from politics to grassroots social reformers. Yes?



YES!! So I am glad that you can now see how that aspiration CAN be a two-edged sword! GOOD show, girl!



One does not always KNOW another's intent, does one, so as to KNOW when to BE wary... and of WHOM, yes? Hence, my profession of Christ's viewpoint being tantamount with ME. I KNOW I cannot lean on my OWN understanding, especially given that it once led me TO listen to the WTBTS. For ME, that dictates that rather than thinking I DO know "something"... anything... WHAT I know is that MY judgment isn't trustworthy. His, though, ALWAYS is. So, what do I do? Trust in myself and lean upon my OWN understanding... which has PROVEN faulty... or trust in HIM... and lean on HIS... which is NEVER faulty?

I'm not a gambling woman, dear Char... but I know a PERFECTLY "sound" investment when I see one. And I've only ever seen one: Christ.



Well, I am glad you can see that. Perhaps you can see the other side, too, though: that respect and openness CAN (and often does) include the REJECTION of others' views, too. Even outright. And that's something I must thank the WTBTS for, helping me see that not all WILL agree with/accept your beliefs... but... so what, don't take it so personal. Christ, though, taught me how to BETTER take on such rejection... by not taking it personal at ALL.

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Same here! But, if I may ask, how did that come into your mind? Have I missed something? I probably have, but I just can't see where such ideas have been mentioned. It seems a comment a bit out of the blue, somehow. I agree with you though. I'd hate either of those two things too. I cannot stand that kind of exclusiveness.

To the contrary, dear Char (peace!), I included it to show that not only do I realize there IS some exclusivity in our world, but I don't necessarily want to rid the world of all of it. I recognize others' right to certain kinds of exclusivity... and have absolutely NO desire to be a part of it. Not because I'm against whatever it is, but simply because I have no desire to be a PART of it. That they don't WANT me to be... is irrelevant. My well-being and peace of mind isn't based on what others want me to do or not so, allow me to do or not do, what me to say or not say... or how... or when... or why.

I good within myself BECAUSE of Christ who dwells IN me... and so if someone doesn't WANT my POV I'm totally okay with that. Because I don't necessarily want THEIRS.

Which I spoke to and think WAS in line with our discussion.

Some people worry so much... TOO much, IMHO... as to what others think about them... AND what they think. A few, though, don't allow themselves to fall into this particular kind of... mmmmmmmmm... enslavement.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Well, yes...and I wasn't concerned as to whether or not anything you said was in line with the discussion or not! It was still interesting! I had merely wondered what prompted the comment...sorry if you thought I minded!

I'm interested by most things.

Not sure where the bit about some people worrying comes in...but I'm assuming it's another random comment, and as such is equally interesting and nothing I personally would disagree with. Not that that would matter anyway; agreement or not is unnecessary for a discussion to take place.

No, I didn't think you minded (peace!). I was responding to your comment that my comments seemed "out of the blue." I meant that, to the contrary, I believed they were within the discussion. That's all.

Peace!

A slave of Christ!

Shellama

Language and vocabulary again! Not this time between two nations or cultures, but just an ambiguity i certainly hadn't foreseen or intended!

tto clarify: "out of line" has a number of meanings, related but not the same. One, "out of order" meaning not acceptable, not the done thing, not what one should be doing, almost breaking the rules.

Another meaning has no pejorative implication, no sense of a flaunted code, as with that first meaning. This second meaning is "out of sequence", without an immediately obvious link to what has gone before. That was my intention, what was in my mind when writing that paragraph. Merely that I was genuinely interested in how the thought under discussion came into your mind.

It seems likely that you read it as with the first meaning, the first interpretation. Perhaps you felt latent criticism? I don't know.

There was none. It was just a straightforward remark. No hidden implication.

But the minutiae don't really matter, do they? They could bog us down!

Ummmm, okay (peace!). I hear you. No need to get bogged down, no. To be clear, though, since it seems i wasn't, I took you to mean the second. At least, that's the one I meant when I stated "to the contrary."

I hope that helps... and again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

PRAISE JAH AND JAH'ESHUA!!

Peace to you all!

A few hours ago a dear one brought my attention back to this thread and topic with the question, Is paradise in Hades? after he inadvertently misread a post in this thread.

I had to review the thread to know what he was referring to and in doing so had to reconsider Sabatious and dear PSacto's positions:   Sab believed(s) paradise is indeed in Hades and PSacto/Paul shared that that is also the view of Jews (with supporting info).

When I made the initial post, I shared that I was sharing what I had received from our dear Lord.  As I reviewed the thread, what I received was confirmed; however, my dear Lord shared that the Jews' position was because hope to enter the kingdom of the heavens (the spirit realm) had not yet been revealed or made available to them.  Indeed, that hope was not held out to ANYONE... until "Shiloh"... our dear Lord, JaH'eShua, the SON... came here and offered it.  Until then, the hope (for Israel) was (1) death, and (2) sleep in Sheol/Hades, until (3) resurrection back to THIS realm (Ezekiel 37:1-10)

So, I shared with the dear one who asked that it was understandable that some would believe AND teach that paradise is in/a part of Hades/Sheol but that that wasn't the TRUTH.  The TRUTH is that it is in/part of the SPIRIT realm ("heaven") that was "planted" on the physical realm... or "earth" (Genesis 2:7, 8; John 15:1).

I realized that that corroboration could be challenged, of course, based on the Jewish beliefs and so I told the dear one that could only put faith in what I received AND that my dear Lord would confirm it at some point by providing a "2nd witness" as to the truth of what I'd received.  I also shared that, while such 2nd witness was often rather quick, there have been times when it took a year/years.  The dear one understood.

I am VERY elated to report that not only did the 2nd witness not take a year/years, but this time not even a day.  Not even half a day.  To corroborate that my dear Lord did NOT mean that the man hung next to him would be with him in paradise that very day (i.e., after they'd both died and gone to Sheol/Hades), he asked me a question (note, I SO love what has come to be known as the "Socratic Method"... although it's actually the method of the Father's spirit... except when used by the Adversary, of course).

He asked me,

"How long was I in Sheol, child?"

to which I responded, of course,

"Three or parts of 3 days, my Lord,"

to which HE asked,

"And did I stay there?"

to which I responded,
"No, my Lord, you didn't."

He THEN asked me,

"And where would the LOVE be in promising someone who put their FAITH in ME that they WOULD be WITH ME... only to leave them BEHIND?  Wouldn't LOVE have required that promise to be FULFILLED and fulfilment made NOT by leaving them in 'paradise' but either staying with them or taking them with me when I left?  Did I not promise to NOT abandon my sheep but to RETURN and take them WITH me to where I was/am?"

to which I responded,

"YES!  It WOULD, my Lord - of COURSE, it WOULD!"

My (wicked) heart, though, thought of his leaving his early disciples with the plan to return for them, but before I could formulate the entire thing, he asked,

"And so, is it to Sheol I am to return? If paradise is there, would I not be there, as well, in Sheol, or return to that place for that man? Yet, I am NEVER to return there, yes?"

To which I responded,

"Never, yes!"

He then asked me,

"And is paradise to be destroyed? Will it, too, be thrown into the Lake of Fire? For certainly, Sheol will be, yes?"

Yes, Sheol/Hades IS to be destroyed. But paradise... NEVER. And so, can one believe in the Son, in Christ, AND believe that paradise IS in Sheol/Hades? I personally can't see how.

Had our dear Lord meant that the man would be with him in paradise THAT very day, then that togetherness would have lasted less than 4 days.  Why even make the promise??

WE know, though, that our dear Lord’s promise to be WITH him... is ETERNAL.  That he would not have meant he'd be with the man in Sheol but, due to man's FAITH, in hid KINGDOM.  Which togetherness is eternal for those who have faith in him.  And the man did have such faith.

Again, TOTALLY understandable that the Jews believe(d) paradise was/in Hades.  Just as they believe only in a resurrection to earth/physical life.  Because although the gift of eternal life and the kingdom of the heavens IS theirs (first and after the nations have been brought in) due to ABRAHAM'S faith, those who didn't/don't/haven't accepted the Son as their appointed king don't know of it.  Don't have a hope FOR it, even though, if a Jew or Samaritan, it is theirs to have.

They CAN'T know of it, though.  Because the Son, our dear, dear Lord, Master, Savior, and King, JaH'eShua, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel... is the ONLY Way FOR them to do so (Matthew 23:39).

We must continue to pray for Israel - not the earthly statehood which people are the Israelis. Rather, the descendants of Abraham thorough his son, Isaac, and Isaac's Son, Jah'Kub. The TRUE "Israel."

Peace to you ALL, to your dear households, and let EVERY living, breathing thing PRAISE JAH... and KISS THE SON!!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel

Peace to you all today and peace to you my sister,

Yes!!! Praise be to JAH and His son our Lord, savior, life and resurrection JAHeshua.

This made me smile so much and the simplicity of the explanation…

That our Lord was in Sheol parts of three days, did not stay there, would not have made that promise to that man of faith next to him on the stake/cross and then left him behind. Also that it is Sheol and hades that are thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed. Certainly can’t be paradise, where the promise to inherit is everlasting.

Always so simple and a ‘aha moment’

Thank you for the sharing and hope this finds you all well,

Peace and love to you all and to your households for all eternity,

Your sister servant and slave of JAHeshua
kim

YES, dear Kimmie!

Peace to you and your dear household, my dear sister!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel

Greetings Everyone: Praise JAH, the MOST HOLY ONE, and His Son, the Holy, JAH’eshua. May you have peace as our Lord provides it.

As AGuest shared, the Jews believed only in the resurrection of the physical body; however, note what Paul, in his letter to the Corinthians, and John, in the Revelation, write regarding the location of paradise and the location of the tree of life, as to where it is. Please see. . . .

“2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.”—2 Corinthians 12:2-4.

“7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.”—Revelation 2:7.

“Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.”—Revelation 22:2.

May JAH, the Most Holy One of true Israel, bless.

Peace to you all!

I do not have anything to add, except thank you for sharing as you received!

I just want to also say,

Praise JAH and His Son, Jaheshua!