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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Zoe wrote:
I want to revise my question to read is Christ to return visibly. I didn't mean in the flesh as I am sure he will not return as a man biput as a spirit creature.
'


Well, that takes care of the response I was about to type, lol.

He will return as He truly is... is my understanding. And visibly, as EVERY eye will see Him, including those who have pierced Him (as Leaving quoted and spoke of above). But not everyone will recognize Him... unless they know and recognize His voice.


Peace to you all,
your sister and servant and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Quote:
I want to revise my question to read is Christ to return visibly. I didn't mean in the flesh as I am sure he will not return as a man biput as a spirit creature.


WTBTS is of two minds on this. The return in 1914 to inspect was invisible. This is a somewhat recent change. Prior to that, they said he had returned, invisibly, but they could not get past too many other things that showed that he had not returned yet. So, it appears they revised it to show he only returned to inspect the temple in 1914 and appointed the FDS in 1919, but that his REAL return is yet future.

With that said, and based on Revelation 1:7 where it says that "every eye will see him", and that it indicates "those that pierced him" would, and that "all nations will beat themselves in grief because of him", then, I think, yes, it must be visibly.

Matthew 24:30 corroborates this:
"Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Who is the "they"? "All the tribes of the earth". Seems like it's visible to me, if taking this at face value.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Christ returning visibly for all to see and know who he is, is OF HUGE IMPORTANCE to know. Saying he will return invisibly makes it so those who don't care to know him or don't know him will not know it happened or what it's all about.

To me this is a big thing and makes a huge difference. Why would the WT teach such a thing that he came invisibly already and only Annointed JWs saw it mentally not visually. Yes I know why, because it's a lie and they want to pretend they are special and the rest of us have to suck up to them and their lies. The WT is denying people the right to what Christ offered to all and keeping it just for themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:29 pm 
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I'd like to respond to some things posted here (peace to you, all!)... and I have a LOT... and some of it will make you dear ones REJOICE! Well, it did me - LOLOL!

I'll start with dear Zoe's (revised) question first and share that everyone alive at the time... AND those who take part in the first resurrection... will see him, yes. The rest will not... until the second resurrection. Some of the latter, however, will all have seen him BEFORE that, though:

“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforter that will remain with you to time indefinite — the spirit of truth. The world cannot receive it, because it cannot see it nor come to know it. But you know it, for it dwells with you and will be in you.

"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Soon, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me because I live. You will also live.

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

"Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

"Jesus replied, “If one loves me he will observe my words. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our abode with them. One who does not love me will not obey my words. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the comforter, holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."
John 14:15-27

A LOT in his words here, dear ones. INCLUDING that those who LOVE him... will SEE him. Because they are ALLOWED to do so BECAUSE they love him. They SHOW that they love him... by LISTENING to him, to his WORDS... and OBSERVING/OBEYING them.

Because of your attempts to do that, listen to/obey... and thus show YOUR love for... him... I am directed (and PRIVILEGED!!) to reiterate the following and share with you further, the sacred secret of what he meant when he said:

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."

I am directed to take it backward, though, because it is kind of a... journey... "INTO"... the true temple of God. And so:

1. He is in US, dear ones... by means of SPIRIT. If we love HIM (and we show that love by OBEYING his words)... he and the Father come and dwell IN us, as the "temple" of God, the "place" where God lives/dwells/abides/resides/occupies... by SPIRIT.

2. We are "in" HIM... IF we are members of his BODY. That part is pretty self-explanatory, yes, but we must make no mistake: ONLY the members of HIS Body... are IN... him. All others are OUTSIDE of him... HE.. the "HOLY" in the "temple." If one IS in him, then, one has ACCESS... TO... him. Access [in]TO the "Holy" in the temple. Who, though, had access in ancient days? ONLY... priests. And so, by means of being members of his Body... and (king)PRIESTS... WE are "in" HIM.

And finally...

3. He is in the Father, dear ones... because EVERYTHING "good"... is "in" the Father. Just as everything good... CAME... COMES... OUT of/from the Father. But there's more, something even more wonderful: he... and good... come(s) OUT of the womb of the Woman... which is the SPIRIT realm (the "Jerusalem Above")... which womb... is the "ark" or HOLDING place... of God's COVENANT... with HIS SEED (note, the term "In the beginning" is an ERROR - as I have shared with you, the correct transliteration is "In the ARK")... which "ark"... womb... is IN the MOST HOLY... as it was when reproduced on EARTH... which MOST Holy... is JAH Himself (Christ being the "Holy").

And so, the Son that came FORTH from (within) the FATHER... has returned TO... so as to be, AGAIN... IN the Father:

"Father, GLORIFY me... WITH YOUR OWN GLORY... which I HAD... WITH YOU... BEFORE the world was"... John 17:5

When he RETURNED to the Father, he RETURNED... to the spirit realm... which is that "ark"... which is "in".... the MOST HOLY! And we can know this because HE IS SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the Father... Who IS the MOST Holy... and so, he, too.. is ALSO "in" the MOST Holy. Where the "ark"... or SPIRIT realm... IS.

Please... please... forgive my caps. Not yelling, dear ones, not at all. But VERY excited. Because I once tried to explain this to some dear ones... who I'm not sure "got it" (maybe they did - I don't know). But maybe NOW they can see what I was trying to help THEM see when I shared that althought JAH and Christ can be in US... WE are in them!

Which is what the whole "temple" thing is ABOUT:

1. A "temple" is a dwelling place/home for a spirit;
2. JAH dwells, by spirit, in HIS temple;
3. His TRUE temple... is made of PEOPLE... not bricks and sticks;
4. In His TRUE temple, HE is the "Most Holy/Holy of Holies";
5. Christ is the "Holy";
6. His people are the pillars, stones, etc.

Yet, when describing the "NEW Jerusalem," John wrote:

"I did not see a temple in the city, because JaHVeH Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Revelation 21:22

THEY are the "MOST Holy" and "Holy" IN the "temple" that WE are. And so, if you look at the tabernacle/temple constructed by Moses/Solomon, you will see that the temple (Most Holy and Holy) are IN... the CITY. Just as JAH and Christ are in... us, the Body (of Christ).

By means of being that temple, however, the NEW Jerusalem... which city "belongs to the (spirit realm")... and in the (ark of the) COVENANT, which covenant BINDS us to them... WE... are IN... the MOST Holy One of Israel... having gone THROUGH... the HOLY (Christ).

I have more, but I don't want to mix them up in one post, so I will end this one and do another post.

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:57 pm 
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Next, I have been given another sacred secret to share, as to dear LQ's (peace, dear brother!) musing regarding "those that pierced him." I am to share:

Keep in mind that those who actually pierced him... won't be alive when our dear Lord returns... nor do they take part in the first resurrection. AND... some were not Israel (but Romans) and so did not know him, at ALL, but were simply doing their "job." How then, will THOSE see him?

Because, before our dear Lord returns he will, again, visit the World of the Dead. This time, though, he won't have to die to do that: he not only has already done it, but the "king" of THAT world can't hold him - he has the "keys"... AND... ALL authority (yep, even over death - Revelation 1:18; 9:1, 2, 11; Psalm 16:10

He will go because just as when he was here in the flesh and went to preach to those who died during Noah's day... there are some who died between the time he first went... and Pentecost... as well as then and now. Some who are there... because they had not put faith in him (so as to go "under the altar") but, due to JAH's mercy, will be given that opportunity. Because the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, IS MERCIFUL... and shows mercy to whomever He wishes.

Such ones will see him... and have one last chance to put faith in him... so as to perhaps be resurrected (at the SECOND resurrection) to LIFE... versus to judgment.

But there is another reason for him to go, another more important reason... and manifestation of the Father's mercy: to show himself plainly... to Israel, those who are not part of the first resurrection or change with such ones to "white robes" at that time. Because all Israel will be saved; however, they are not saved... UNTIL they SAY:

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of JAH."

Most did not do that.. before they died. But they will... must... before they can be resurrected to LIFE. Since ALL Israel will be saved... ALL Israel will give this blessing at some point. Either when he returns at the saying of it by those living... or when he goes to them where they are "sleeping" (in death).

I, SA, have shared this truth... and the one(s) above... with you, just as I received them from my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). I hope it gives some here hope... and more reason to put their faith in the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Because His mercy is GREAT. AND to listen to the Spirit and the Bride when such say to any who are WISHING and THIRSTING:

"Come! Take LIFE's (Christ's) water... the holy spirit of GOD, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which spirit is His breath, blood, and seed... by means of which one can ONLY become His "son"... and is poured out from the innermost parts of HIS firstborn Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"

KISS the SON... and praise JAH... ALL you people! Let every living... BREATHING... thing... PRAISE JAH!!

Peace to you, all!

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and ALL those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Quote:
But there is another reason for him to go, another more important reason... and manifestation of the Father's mercy: to show himself plainly... to Israel, those who are not part of the first resurrection or change with such ones to "white robes" at that time. Because all Israel will be saved; however, they are not saved... UNTIL they SAY:

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of JAH."

Most did not do that.. before they died. But they will... must... before they can be resurrected to LIFE. Since ALL Israel will be saved... ALL Israel will give this blessing at some point. Either when he returns at the saying of it by those living... or when he goes to them where they are "sleeping" (in death).


Ahhh... there we go! That has been a question on my mind for a little while now, since we learned about Israel (who are alive) saying "Blessed is He who comes in the name of Jah", and I wondered about all those who had already died and so would not be here (alive) to say it.


Thank you for sharing as you have heard, and praise Jah and His Son, Jaheshua for giving these things to you to share,
peace and love to you,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:27 pm 
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He will go because just as when he was here in the flesh and went to preach to those who died during Noah's day... there are some who died between the time he first went... and Pentecost... as well as then and now. Some who are there... because they had not put faith in him (so as to go "under the altar") but, due to JAH's mercy, will be given that opportunity. Because the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, IS MERCIFUL... and shows mercy to whomever He wishes.

Such ones will see him... and have one last chance to put faith in him... so as to perhaps be resurrected (at the SECOND resurrection) to LIFE... versus to judgment.


Besides His great love and mercy to ALL of Israel, this point is also another reason to give all glory, honor and praise to our father JAHVEH for he is truly the God of ALL mercies.

This is truly wonderful news! Thank you for sharing from our Lord.
Love and peace to you and your entire household to time indefinite, your sister and fellow slave of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:52 pm 
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Yes, dear 'Mom and tec (peace to you, both!)... and my apologies to ALL (peace to you all, as well!) because I meant to add, but forgot to add the following, based on his words:

"For I tell you, you will not see me again after this point/time until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of JaHVeH."

Those of Israel/"Jerusalem" who have died, especially those of that time, are NOT exempt from this requirement! It MUST be said by them... AS WELL AS by their children! True, their CHILDREN... DESCENDANTS... WILL say it, as I shared before (it is what triggers our dear Lord's return!). But those who "pierced" him say it as well... BECAUSE:

"When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd, saying, "I... am innocent of this man's blood; see to that yourselves." And all the people said, "His blood shall be on us and on our children!" Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having [Jesus] scourged, he handed him over to be impaled."

Their CHILDREN are not RESPONSIBLE for having to make this declaration; the sins of the father are NOT paid for by the son. Rather, the CHILDREN... or DESCENDANTS... of these who uttered that oath, simply FULFILL the prophesy as to the saying ("Blessed is he that comes..."). And THEY received a blessing... his return... BECAUSE of such saying.

The "fathers", however, must lift the "curse" of their SINS... bearing false witness against their BROTHER, as well as MURDERING him... both of which are major violations of the Law to which they were bound by OATH.... which they willingly took responsibility FOR. That "curse" is lifted for THEM... when THEY acknowledge... KISS... the One they sinned AGAINST... the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who was sent ONCE to save them... and will come to do so... AGAIN. Their children FIRST... as part of the "great crowd"... THEN the "fathers", as part of the SECOND resurrection.

Just as it was their CHILDREN who got to see the Promised Land (of Canaan)... when Israel crossed the Jordan. The fathers did NOT, but were laid low in the wilderness. It was the CHILDREN of Israel who were blessed at that time. THIS time, the fathers WILL see the "promised land" (of the NEW Jerusalem), AS WELL... due SOLELY to JAH's mercy, which WILL be granted due to their acknowledgement... KISSING... of His Son. THIS time.

SO sorry I left all of that out... but I had to get to school and rushed. I should not have, so I apologize for that omission.

Peace to you, both... and to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:35 am 
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Loved that Shelby, thank you for coming back to add it all.


Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:39 am 
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Now I am confused again? Shelby your answer is very complicated for me but I think that you are saying that NO not everyone will see him when he returns. Only those who love him.

I was hoping and thinking after reading the earlier scriptures in this thread that everyone would see him visibly and then the whole living world would know finally that he exists and can't deny him anymore.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:00 am 
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Zoe wrote:
Now I am confused again? Shelby your answer is very complicated for me but I think that you are saying that NO not everyone will see him when he returns. Only those who love him.

I was hoping and thinking after reading the earlier scriptures in this thread that everyone would see him visibly and then the whole living world would know finally that he exists and can't deny him anymore.



Good morning ZOE and peace to you...
There was a lot to take in but I think the answer to your question here is this...

I'll start with dear Zoe's (revised) question first and share that everyone alive at the time... AND those who take part in the first resurrection... will see him, yes. The rest will not... until the second resurrection. Some of the latter, however, will all have seen him BEFORE that, though:

She goes on to shares as to how ALL of Israel is saved ( those alive at his return or that have been dead) but as to those in the world that are alive when he returns they will all see him.
Hope that helped,
Love, your sister and fellow servant of Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:19 am 
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Thanks JustMom
So to make it very simple then, the answer to my question is that everyone alive at the time of his visible return will see him. good and bad people alike. Do I have that right?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:58 am 
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Zoe wrote:
Thanks JustMom
So to make it very simple then, the answer to my question is that everyone alive at the time of his visible return will see him. good and bad people alike. Do I have that right?


Yes...

Although remember what they " expect" him to look like is not as his truly IS!
But those that KNOW Him and KNOW His voice will KNOW its Him.

Love and peace to you, your sister and fellow slave of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah who is so much more merciful than we ever could have imagined.....Kim


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:15 am 
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Oh, no, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace to you, luv!): I am sharing that EVERYONE... WILL see him... those alive AND those dead!

In the account, he said every eye would see him [and] those who pierced him. He was speaking about those who pierced him LITERALLY (the group of Jewish leaders who HAD him impaled - and the Romans who actually did it)... as well as figuratively (both those of his day in the flesh who CALLED for his piercing... AND from that point on). "EVERY" eye will see him!

Those who pierced him literally are dead, though, luv, so how CAN they see him... before the SECOND resurrection (which is the only resurrection for THEM, as only those who belong to him by UNION benefit from the FIRST resurrection)... AND gain LIFE (versus judgment, condemnation, and destruction) through that resurrection... unless HE goes to them, where THEY are and SHOWS himself, plainly, TO them?

For the prophecy to apply only to FUTURE Jews, the "children" of those who uttered the oath, would be the "sins" of the "father" being held against the "son." Which CANNOT happen with the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies:

"The word of JaHVeH came to me: “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel:

“‘The parents eat sour grapes,
and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

As surely as I live, declares JaHVeH, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

“Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife
or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
He does not lend to them at interest
or take a profit from them.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between two parties.
He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares JaHVeH.

Suppose he has a violent son, who sheds blood or does any of these other things (though the father has done none of them):

“He eats at the mountain shrines.
He defiles his neighbor’s wife.
He oppresses the poor and needy.
He commits robbery.
He does not return what he took in pledge.
He looks to the idols.
He does detestable things.
He lends at interest and takes a profit.

Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.

“But suppose this son has a son who sees all the sins his father commits, and though he sees them, he does not do such things:

He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife.
He does not oppress anyone
or require a pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
He withholds his hand from mistreating the poor
and takes no interest or profit from them.
He keeps my laws and follows my decrees.

He will not die for his father’s sin; he will surely live.

But his father will die for his own sin, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was wrong among his people.

“Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.


But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares JaHVeH. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die."


Keep in mind, this is NOT speaking of death of the FLESH... but of the SPIRIT... which death is destruction in the Lake of Fire. Remember, the flesh "is of no use at all" and so when speaking of ones living due to their righteousness... or dying due to their wickedness... the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, is speaking of the SPIRIT that is sinning: IT... will be destroyed.

Which is why this account ENDS as it does:

“Yet you say, ‘The way of JaHVeH is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

"If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die.

"Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lor JaHVeH is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?


“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares JaHVeH. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares JaHVeH. Repent and live!


How can those who've already died, who are dead when EVERY eye [is to] see him... REPENT? They are dead, yes? Ah, but not so fast:

You may recall me sharing some time ago about my visit to the world of the dead. When my Lord took me to show me the condition of the dead - that they are not in pain, or mourning, etc., but are simply sleeping. If you remember, when we arrived there and I saw the bones (tons and tons of bones for quite a ways back into the "earth"), they all woke up. Not to life, but JUST enough to ask a question: "Is this 'it'? (which they didn't even have enough spirit... life... in them to know where they were, WHY they were there... or what the "it" they were "expecting" WAS).

I thought they were asking if "this" was the resurrection... the time for them to be raised up (to life or judgment). I NOW understand that for SOME of them... Israel who are NOT in union with Christ (and so under the altar)... AND those who might, at THAT time, PUT faith in Christ... just as those did who saw him when he went there when he died... the "it" is Christ RETURNING to THAT world (just as he returns to THIS one)... which return gives THEM the opportunity to SAY "Blessed is he...". They don't have that opportunity otherwise, luv!

Because such ones HAVE to REPENT of their OWN sins... including their literal and/or call for him to be impaled!

I realize some might say, "Wait, Shel! You're saying Christ goes BACK to Sheol?!!" And the response to that would be... YES!! He CAN... because HE HAS HE KEYS as well as ALL AUTHORITY. And, because... remember... he said he does not lose ONE, NOT ONE... which HAS to include ALL of Israel, INCLUDING those who are NOT in union with him. And so... he goes BACK... FOR such ones!

He is not locked out of Sheol, dear one - he has the KEYS... as well as the AUTHORITY... to go in and out of THAT place, as well! JAH can go there, yes? And Christ is now JUST LIKE the Father... having authority even over death, yes? Which means authority over the WORLD of the dead, yes? BECAUSE... NOW... HE knows good (life)... AND bad (death)... but LIVES. He is... the FIRSTBORN... FROM the dead, yes? He was living... then died (and went to that world to preach to the spirits THERE)... and lives AGAIN. Yes?

Were he to NOT go back there... and preach to those spirits who went there SINCE his resurrection... then he is NOT giving THEM the chance given to those of NOAH's day. Which would not only be UNMERCIFUL... but UNRIGHTEOUS.

But as we read in JAH's words through Ezekiel, the MOST HOLY One of Israel does not want ANY to die, but to REPENT. He MUST, then, give those who've died since the Son's resurrection that opportunity.

Which means... and I did NOT know this before... the teachings of MAN, that once one dies there is NO further opportunity to repent/accept Christ... is FALSE. It HAS to be. Because those who died during Noah's day were given such an opportunity. How much MORE will ISRAEL be given such, Israel who JAH LOVES... and considers His CHOSEN people?

Some will say "They had a chance to put faith in him when he was here in the flesh and after." Perhaps. What if they were CHILDREN when they died... and so weren't ALLOWED to put faith in him? What if they died BEFORE the good news about him reached their home/village/town/city? Died somewhere between his resurrection... and the disciples/apostles beginning to spread the word ABOUT him? Do not those folks warrant an opportunity TO hear?

Who, though, can TELL them? The dead are conscious of nothing... nor do they speak. So, I can't go there and tell them. You can't. None of MAN can... because any of US going there would be dead, too! But HE can go there... and show himself to them!

And in THIS way his words ARE true: EVERY eye... of those living AND those dead... WILL see him! Including those who pierced him.

I hope this helps, dear, dear Zoe. I realize it might go against what we know thus far, but I have NO doubt that the truth that he WILL go back to Sheol and show himself to those there IS written. Just perhaps not in the Bible. Then, again, this:

"I saw a star descend from heaven to the earth. The star had been given the key to the pit of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.


... occurs BEFORE this (the start of the great tribulation):


"The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God. It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number."


The "pit" of the "abyss" is the LOWEST part of the world of the dead. "Tartarus." It is were the spirits of SPIRIT beings (not mankind) are confined: in dense darkness (and thus FURTHEST away from JAH's glory/light/dynamic energy. Who has that key? Who ALONE can open the "pit"? Only the One to Whom the keys... "to death and Hades"... have been GIVEN. Yes?

Did you note, though, WHERE that abyss/pit IS? I'll give you few clues:

1. When my Lord took me to the world of the dead, I shared that it was "as if" we had gone about 3 or more miles... into the earth;

2. Water confines spirits;

3. The sea gives up those dead in it... and death and Hades give up those dead in them...;

4. "I saw a star descend from heaven to the earth.

5. "The star had been given the key to the pit of the abyss. When he opened the Abyss..."



I will leave you to ponder that, dear, dear Zoe.


As always, peace to you, to your dear household... and I hope this helps!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:33 am 
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Well its very complicated at the first read and of course open to interpretation but thank you for explaining your understanding of it Shelby. I have never understood this stuff before and so finding it fascinating now. I will never believe the JW version of things again but my mind still tries to think that way.


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