xjwsforChrist

PAULSACRAMENTO SAID

RE: the 144K
The number is symbolic, nothing more.
It is a typical jewish "raising of the guard" for a holy war.
Hence a equal number from every tribe.
Since they are "holy warriors", (pure and "virginal"), they are marked as special BUT it is clear they are special because they have been chosen for a special task -holy war.
They are NOT anymore special than any other believer.
In Jewish apocalyptic writings, a select "pure" group was always selected for a holy war.

JUSTMOM SAID


Good Morning everyone...

Bear with me, as I am slow at typing. Cannot EVEN come close to Shelby. I can talk faster than her <lol> but slow at keyboarding.
I would like to mention a couple things from 3 of you this morning.

First...HellPuppy, to answer your questions in a nutshell.
The WTBS have always taught that the 144,000(which includes the governing body members of 8/at times the numbers change) collectively make up the Faithful and discreet slave class on earth. Many come and go as they die off during their generations but while they are here on earth they are to dispense spiritual food at the proper time. Matthew 24;45-47. The new understanding is that NOW only the existing governing body members of 8 men make up that faithful and discreet slave (class) which excludes any others around the world that partake at the memorials each year, (approx 12,000 I believe now)so they have elevated themselves even above their own body members of annointed brothers and sisters and deleted them from being part of this collective slave class that supposedly is supposed to be involved in the feeding work.
Hope this helps!

Dear Paul S

You mentioned (we need to realize that without the bible to direct us to Christ, we would not even know about Christ) I do have to disagree with you. Although the bible can be used for many things as 2 Timothy 3:16&17 mentions (although it is referring to SCRIPTURE not all of the bible) we are saying that Jah's hand is short. That HOLY SPIRIT alone cannot bring people to Christ. ? We refer to it a lot because many will not "believe" unless they see something they can see or read but.....really ...this IS a lack of faith. The law is supposed to be on our hearts now not on stone tablets (the bible). Relying on things written is where so much confusion can come in. Yes we are supposed to test out inspired utterances I understand but it was not to test out with what was written down it was to test whether they "originate with god" So....we are to look at God's chief agent/ His Son Jaheshua and ask WWJD (what would jesus (Jaheshua) do?) If everything we know and have heard about him from spirit isn't something we see him doing or saying/ then it cannot originate with god. It CAN be that simple. We just "get in the way" so we don't hear.
justathought
Love justmom

Good morning Morgan

Thank you for sharing
Please be encouraged by the fact that I understand your frustration as to questioning your being of the body and also that you cannot hear as Shelby does, but.....
I will share with you what helped me. Two versus 1 Corinthians 12:1-18
There is "ONE" body and "MANY members. Different gifts. Verse 11 says" But all these operations the one and the same spirit performs,making a distribution to each one respectively just as "HE" wills.
12 "One body, many members all belonging to Christ."
18 "Jah has set the members in the body, each one of them, just as HE PLEASED."
The body members cannot say one to the other, "we don't NEED you" or "you are not as valuable". Jah knows us all individually and loves the body the same. Our gifts or talents may differ but it doesn't change where or who we belong to. Remember that!
Also remember Matthew 18 and 25 where the master distributed "TALENTS" to the slaves (5 talents, 2 talents, 1 talent) EACH according to HIS ABILITY
All they were told to do is "INCREASE" what had been given them. They were not to compare or be jealous that one got more. The reward was the same all long as they did not hide their talent. So be content with what has been given us and yes we always want to pray for faith to hear/when we can't hear very clear sometimes it is usually something in our hearts going on or we didn't like what we heard and dismissed it. It happens with me constantly.
This encourages me, I hope it does you as well!

As far as the great crowd not being sealed as the 144,000 are. My understanding is all will be sealed (could be wrong) but the 144,000 are mentioned specifically because it was a guarantee to Abraham because of Jah's love for him that this number would be set aside as a priethood from his direct line. A little flock (Jews & Israelites) other sheep in John 10:16 that were not of that fold would also come into that covenenant and be "one' flock under "one'shephard. That is the unnumbered great crowd
that Peter said "stop calling unclean what god has cleansed" And I ask why wouldn't they also be in heaven? They are priests/they are standing before the throne/they are annointed and chosen?
questions? feel free to ask
with love to you all
justmom

OUTLAW SAID

Good morning Hell Puppy..

The governing Body used to represent the the Anointed/Faithful & Discreet Slave..
Now they claim only they "ARE" the Faithful and Discreet Slave..
The 144,000 were demoted by the WBT$ Governing Body..
Now the Anointed are no more important than the average JW..
The WBT$ has replaced the 144,000..
With the 8 members of the WBT$ Governing Body..

The WBT$ governing body has replaced Jesus as mediator for the average JW..
Now they have replaced the Faithful and Discreet Slave as well..

Old raking order..

God..
Jesus..(sometimes the WBT$ GB..Jesus needs to learn his place in Watchtower World.. )
Anointed..
WBT$ GB..
Average JW..
Non JW`s and Dog Meat..

New ranking order..
God..
Jesus..(sometimes the WBT$ GB..Jesus needs to learn his place in Watchtower World.. )
WBT$ GB..
JW`s and Anointed JW`s..
Non JW`s and Dog Meat

.......................................OUTLAW

_________________

JUSTMOM SAID




Funny but true Outlaw

I actually believe as sad as this sounds I think the new ranking order is more like

God
WTBS/Governing Body (who's this jesus' guy?)
JW's and Annointed JW's
Non-JW's and Dog Meat


justmom

PAULSACRAMENTO SAID





Fair enough and I don't think I worded that properly because, as Jaheshua told those that would silence His followers, "even the stones would proclaim Him".
The thing is that the HS did choose to use the written word of man to guide people to Christ.
In our desire to draw people to the HS we must never neglect that the bible was used for that and continues to be used for that.

OUTLAW SAID

Good morning justmom..

Your ranking order is closer to what goes on in Watchtower World..
The reality is..
Jesus has no place in Watchtower World..
Start talking about Jesus to a JW and you will scare them..

JW`s talk about The Truth/WBT$ Organization..
Then Jehovah/WBT$ Organization..
To them it`s all one and the same..

In Watchtower World..
Jesus is out of a Job..
And..
God wouldn`t have a Job without the WBT$..

.....................................OUTLAW

_________________

JUSTMOM SAID

Dear Outlaw

YUP!!!! So true.. One of things that actually scared/even stumbled some folks in the begining of our exiting days were when we started saying "Christ" "Our Lord" "Our master".
Imagine that!!!

It wasn't Jehovah this! Jehovah that!

I remember holy spirit showing me Revelation 12:17 "The dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of the seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to JESUS."

So "Jesus' Winessess?" I was so relieved I was NOT too crazy! lol just a little

Love justmom

JUSTMOM SAID



Hello PaulS
Yes "Stones" (which might refer to who?) 1 Peter 2:5 "YOU yourselves also as living stones are being built up as a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Christ."

It was "the law" that was a tutor leading to Christ! Galatians 3:24&25 "Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 Now that the faith has arrived, (the truth/Christ) we are no longer under a tutor."

This always encourages me
thanks for sharing
justmom

OUTLAW SAID

Hey JustMom..

Oh I believe you scared alot of JW`s..LOL!!..

You may as well say Satan as Jesus to a JW..
You`ll get the same response..
As a JW kid I knew enough to stay away from people who talked about Jesus..
Or worshiped Satan..LOL!!..

Christians follow Jesus.....That makes them Christians..
JW`s follow the Watchtower.....That makes them WatchTards..



.......................................OUTLAW

_________________

YPPUPLLEH SAID

How was it determined who was among the 144000? Did they get special ID cards from the Watchtower?
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

MEDEWTYSENU SAID


@HellPuppy They just figured they were of the anointed. In Charles Taze Russell's day (the founder) it was thought all members of the Org were anointed and so all would go to heaven. It wasn't until Joseph Franklin Rutherford came along and gave a talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" in Cedar Point, Ohio in 1935 that the notion of the "Great Crowd" was introduced and many people in the audience stood up and identified themselves that way. As the years progressed it was deemed that ONLY those who had years of service under their belt or who were in some special position were chosen although there was the "odd person" here and there who still claimed to be on the little flock. It was reasoned that who better to know how to manage people in the 1,000 year reign than people who were already familiar with such things (working at Bethel of full time missionary service). It was also considered that only a person who had proven their faithfulness for many years would be chosen. Unfortunately the leadership (the Governing Body) failed to take several things into account.

1) It's Yahveh who decides who is of the anointed, not men.

2) How long you're been a Christian has nothing to do with it. Saul of Tarsus was a Christian all of 30 seconds and he was told what he would have to endure for God's name. The Apostles were students of Christ for 3 1/2 years when he made the covenant with them (for heavenly life).

3) Rather than length of time it's Love for God and Faith in Him which seems to be (although no one can be really sure) part of the process which causes a person to be chosen. Anyone can be taught any skill, but Love and Faith cannot be taught in a classroom, it has to be learned on an individual level.

I'm sure there are other things I missed (got an Instant Message on Facebook and lost my train of thought) but for the most part being of the "anointed" somehow made you better that other JW's (at least in the GB's eyes and in many JW eyes IF you had the criteria of having been a full time missionary, worked at Bethel or were quite elderly, anyone else who claimed inclusion was deluded and to be avoided at all costs.

Morgan
_________________
"Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter"--Dr. Seuss

JUSTMOM SAID

Thank you Morgan

So true! I will add that around the time the discourse was given "milllions now living will never die," 1914 had come and gone and they ALL didn't go to heaven when Christ supposedly returned to gather the bribe.

The numbers were now growing instead of decreasing, more than a remmant of 144,000 and they didn't know what to do with so many people because of their false prophecy of 1914. So the great crowd was a perfect lie to bulk the surplus into as a group and give them "a earthly hope" and "SHUT UP THE KINGDOM HOPE"

As far as the annointed being long standing, faithful, older, annointed people worthy remember the Apostles were not even annointed until after Christ died and was resurrected and sent the "Holy Spirit". They were in the new covenant and promise by "eating and drinking" the manna and wine but they were not filled with spirit (annointed) until later.

So.....none of the societies calculations are correct!

Thank you for sharing your thought
justmom

YPPUPLLEH SAID

I would like to see or read transcripts of that meeting where the GB decided that they were the anointed;)

I wonder how that decision came about and am curious as to the method that led them to that decision

Do the GB all pray together in a circle and then stuff happens? Does one member being it up and others vote on it? It's fascinating
_________________
Love is a warm rubber puppy...

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

JUSTMOM SAID




1. Good Luck with that one!

2. Fear and Control!

3. Doubt it! Wonder if they even pray at all?

justathought
justmom

MEDEWTYSENU SAID

A link below to a site run by Cedars (a member of JWN) with lots of information pertaining to the Governing Body.
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-gov ... -explained
_________________
"Those that matter don't mind and those that mind don't matter"--Dr. Seuss