xjwsforChrist

That's because you obviously misunderstand me, dear Skals (peace to you!). Which isn't surprising: your "views" are based on anger, which tends to "cloud" them. Mine is based on truth. Indeed, the letter from this latest mom shows the very mentality of JWs: IMMATURE. And so, to send such a letter as the first one to immature people... and expect them to GET it... to WANT to get it... is not only irrational but bordering on ridiculous. There is a proverb, though, that MIGHT help you see what I mean (and I emphasize "MIGHT" because I'm not sure your form of self-inflicted "wisdom" will ALLOW it to get through...):

The one who corrects a ridiculer invites dishonor,
And whoever reproves someone wicked will get hurt.
Do not reprove a ridiculer, or he will hate you.
Reprove a wise person, and he will love you.
Share with a wise person, and he will become wiser.
Teach someone righteous, and he will add to his learning. Proverbs 9:7-9


THIS is what I was saying as to the lady's letter to her parents. IF her parents WERE "adult" in their mentality... she wouldn't have had to write such a letter in the FIRST place. Because they are NOT... but are UNWISE... what she might be HOPING for (i.e., them to wake up and get it as to their hypocrisy and how they've treated her) will most probably NOT occur. To the contrary, they will hate her MORE, hurt her MORE. SHE, on the other hand, won't benefit from being LIKE them... spewing "hate"... but will benefit from FORGIVING THEM... and MOVING ON... in HER heart. Because anger enslaves, dear Skally. The one who is angry. One can harbor it, but the one who does only hurts himself/herself. Those they are angry WITH... probably don't even KNOW... and most certainly probably don't CARE. So... who.. BENEFITS? No one.



If that is the case... and it is with almost every JW parent... yes. They ARE pitiful. Indeed, among the MOST among mankind to BE pitied. Or... who would YOU say is to be pitied? Victims of abuse? Do such want to BE pitied?! I should think NOT. NO victim wishes to be pitied... but perhaps helped, understood. But they don't want anyone's PITY. Perhaps, though, you misunderstand the connotation OF pity.



That "we" are to treat "them" BETTER than "they" treated "us"? Abso-frickin'-lutely!!! Give them what they DIDN'T give us? Yes! Else... how are "we"... ANY DIFFERENT... than THEY are? If "we" give THEM what "they" gave/give US... are WE... not JUST LIKE THEM?? If, however, we treat them BETTER... does not that... ALONE... MAKE US BETTER [than them]?? Common logic... and common sense. As the saying goes: "TWO wrongs do NOT make a right."



You are not restricted at ALL as to speaking truth HERE, including your opinion of me. What you are restricted as to is malice, indecency, and being uncivil. If, then, you don't have words to describe your opinion of me that are NOT malicious, indecent, and uncivil... well, yes, you may have some restrictions. Otherwise, the only one holding you back is you. Speak your mind, then, dear Skals... but please don't take offense when I respond with mine... or as my dear Lord's mind directs and permits ME. Else, that would be... well, you know where I'm going with that...



Please... consider also going BACK and RE-reading, as well. Because you obviously missed MY points. Again, no surprise. That ol' anger "cloud", an' all...

As always, peace to you... the way CHRIST gives it (which is WONDERFUL, BTW)... if you can ever possibly allow ROOM (in your heart) for it.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar, who pities the woman who wrote the second letter to a 13-year-old... for whose personality she obviously takes absolutely NO responsibility for... yet, appears to have wanted some of the parental "glory" (she believed she deserved - yeah right) from her child. If anyone deserves pity, she certainly does... because she OBVIOUSLY didn't know what the heck SHE was doing (writing such a letter to a 13-year-old girl! OMG....)

Oh, oops, my bad, dear Skalls ( peace to you! ). I thought she was asking if she should send it. In which case, I would again say it depends on what she WANTS. I get that she wanted/needed to voice her anger. And she may have done that.

Does she voice it to THEM... in THIS way? SHOULD she? Some will say yes. Some will say no. I say, again, depends on what she wants to accomplish. Just get her anger out? Then no. Hurt them back? Then yes. Write them off? Then yes.

Reach, maybe turn THEM back and AWAY from that harlot? Then again I'd have to say no. Because sending it to them won't do that. What it will do is "prove" to them that the WTBTS IS "right," that it those who LEAVE who lack love and so "belong to Satan"... NOT those who STAY and continue to perpetuate such abuse.. and hate.

S' all I was sayin'.

Peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

I was going to answer this, then read Shelby's response here:



Allow me to repeat,

"Abso-frickin'-lutely!!!"

If you do what they do... especially when YOU know better... how are you ANY different than those you condemn?

But besides that... skally.... where do you think you ARE right now? You KNOW what this forum is about, and who this forum is FOR... so I fail to understand how you seem so confused at the responses you get here that are in line with what CHRIST taught. This forum is FOR Christ. Those on this forum (xjws or otherwise) who are FOR Christ, cannot speak against Him... but must speak as HE has taught them... and HE IS TRUTH.

So YES... we do GOOD to those who persecute us, we forgive those who sin against us, we bless those who curse us. We love EVEN our enemies.

(Sure, sometimes we fail and need help from Christ to overcome our anger or pain, and instead do as HE said... because HE is truth, and every word from His mouth is truth... not some subjective truth, but plain and simple, nothing added to or taken away from... Truth)

In obeying Christ... we have peace. True peace... as Christ gives peace. Just as you can have His peace too... if you wish it.

Anger on the other hand can give the ILLUSION of clarity, the ILLUSION of righteousness, the ILLUSION of being right. Keep that anger within you long enough, embrace it long enough, call IT good long enough, and from my experience with people who do this... at some point, they can no longer listen to anything BUT that anger. ANd they don't want to lose that anger. I asked my Lord why they would not want to lose it... and He said simply, "Fear".


For me, I used to fear being free from worry. When I used to worry, worry, worry... I FEARED not worrying, because I thought that I would no longer be motivated to do anything to help others or to serve Christ or to show love. I did not realize - and it took years - that LOVE motivates one more than worry. Worry and fear and anger, etc, can also cause us to miss TRUTH... which comes from LOVE.


If you feel love and forgiveness... instead of pain and anger... you won't stop trying to save children from the wts. (you might help release more than children from the wts clutches... I mean, doesn't it make sense that if the parents get free, the children will also be free, since they go with their parents, until they reach a certain age at least?)


Now, I do get it. You and some others don't WANT to help your parents, or other adults in the jw religion. You (think you) don't care about them. I don't know how you can all feel that way though... they were once those same children that you are trying to help, but NO ONE helped THEM. As long as you don't want to help those who have the care of the children you say you are fighting for... then you are limiting yourself in how you might also help them. ANd that is not a rebuke against you or others who think as you do. Just something that you may be missing in your anger, that you might otherwise have seen.

Just something to think about. Your choice though.



Now, contrary to your words here (that I also find ironic):



You can absolutely speak truth. (if you cannot manage to speak what you believe is truth within the forum guidelines, well, that is on you) But what I find ironic... is that you somehow think that opposing what Christ taught and spoke and did is not going to be challenged HERE... with what HE taught instead.

I just wonder if you really heard what you wrote here ; )



May you have peace, as my Lord gives peace - true peace. Because I do wish it for you.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I started to re-write the letter, and then just went where my Lord sent me with it, and the truth that He showed me. I don't know if there is anything in it that was meant for this girl, or just to show a difference in tone (and not knowing anything about whether or not someone has faith - which for me is far easier to speak to someone when you are not taking everything from them, but are instead pointing to Christ who IS here and does exist and IS calling to them).


In any case... I started, and just went where the spirit led me:


***

Dear mom and dad,


I am writing to you because love hopes all things and despite all that has happened, my love for you has not failed. Even though it feels to me by your actions that your love for ME has failed, and that hurts more than I can put into words.

The choices you have made in obedience to the Society are confusing to me also. Because I cannot see how these things can have come from Christ, from God, or even simply from love.

Do you remember when I was 8 years old and we were all standing in the kitchen and dad was telling me I shouldn't complain about going to the meetings or out in service and how I should listen to the Society in everything? (Even though God said, "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.") Do you also remember dad telling me that if I don't do all those things Jehovah is going to kill me at Armageddon? That you both will be in the new system but I won't be? But not to worry, 8 year old Autumn because "Jehovah will remove all memory of you from our heads", you said, " it will be like you never even existed.


And now.. I *am* dead to you. Your Jehovah (the Society) has removed me - from your life, from your heart, from your love.

Armageddon has not yet arrived. The new system has not yet arrived. The appointed time has not yet arrived. But already - and contrary to Christ's own words - you (and the Society) have judged and condemned me.

Even though Christ said:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned."

And Paul also said:

"Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes."

I cannot tell you the pain that this has caused me. So much so that most of what you have heard from me over the years - if you have ever listened - has been anger. That anger is far EASIER to feel than the pain. Pain that you have chosen the Society over your own children. Pain that if you can treat me like I'm dead because I left the religion you raised me in, then you never really loved me in the first place. Pain, frustration, helplessness, despair... that not only have you done this to me and to your other children, but that you have done this in obedience to men... and not to Christ and God. It is not Christ who asks this of you. It is not His Father who asks this of you. It is not your children who have forced you to do this.

It is the Society that has asked - nay demanded - this of you.

When on the contrary, Christ said this:

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

Mercy.
Not sacrifice.

The society asks for the opposite of what Christ has said that His Father desires. The Society has asked you to sacrifice me - and I *am* dead to you - instead of showing mercy.


You cannot teach someone mercy by showing them no mercy. You cannot teach love, by showing no love. You cannot teach forgiveness, by showing no forgiveness.

Please, please... open your heart, your eyes, your ears... and SEE this simple truth... this simple truth that Christ taught, that His Father taught Him. Because I am still here, your children are still here, and we are in pain.




***



Peace to you all,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Tammy I`ve known Shelby for years..
I`ve spent time with you on line,then this forum and all the Jesus people..
"You All" have a different way of doing things,I understand that..
I may not agree all the time but I understand..LOL!!..

Some JW`s refuse to listen to Any Opinions except WBT$ Approved Opinions..
They continue their Abuses,it`s in their Best Interests..

All WBT$ Approved Opinions/Actions are as Good as "CASH" in Watchtower World..
They can be traded for approval,advancement in the WBT$,or business contacts for real cash..
Trading in WBT$ Approved Opinions/Actions can be Extremely Profitable for a JW..

Most of us JW kids have tried turning the other cheek,only to have to continuously repeat it year after year..Decade after decade..
We`re dealing with JW Parents who choose the Profits they can Garner from WBT$,rather than the Well Being of their Children..
Eventually some the JW Children tip over the WBT$ Money Changers Tables,in the WBT$ Temple..

I doubt Jesus would Blame Them..LOL!!..

........................................OUTLAW

_________________

Oh, I get that Outlaw. I truly did not mean the words you quoted as a rebuke. Just trying to show another perspective. I understand speaking - releasing so to speak - the pain that has been caused you. But for some, even doing this and/or embracing the anger (the wrath) does not seem to be working for them. They are still angry, they are still in pain. Maybe it is time to try another way.



Someone quoted earlier (maybe JM, or maybe you even, lol)... that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't with jw's.

If that is the case, then why not be damned (by men, not by Christ and God) for doing... what THEY say? (if you have even just a little faith) Or at least doing... what love says? If that is rejected, then so be it. You spoke truth and did what you could. You may find and/or receive release and peace, in the process.



Peace to you also,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Hey Tammy!..

Yes I understand you trying to show another point of view..
You and I have 2 different perspectives and I`m all right with that..

Probably JM..LOL!!

I`m afraid that won`t work for me..Not a believer..No Faith..LOL!!

In most cases it`s always rejected,in favor of Profiting from the WBT$..
It`s extreme capitalism with another form of currency..
Most JW`s are too weak to walk away from what they consider extremely profitable,at someone else`s expense..

If you`ve had a life before the JW`s it`s possible..You can always go back to the life you had..
If your a born in/raised in..You don`t have those options..
Every part of the life you knew,has been amputated..
Your childhood was stolen from you,now your friends,family,marriage,social life,are all gone,destroyed..
Theres nothing left but scars and ashes..
The people who did that to you are smiling and telling you it`s your own fault..
They`ll remind you every time they see you..They`ll take pleasure in it..
Many of us won`t survive..Oompa,farkel..Ect..ect..
They can`t cope with the extreme loss that is inevitable,when your born in and walk away from the WBT$..
Some us will fight back..
It may be the only thing that keeps us alive..

...................................................................................OUTLAW

_________________

I agree with ALL you've stated dear tec ( peace to you, luv! ). Especially:



Sadly, not everyone gets this. Few alcoholic children of alcoholics, or addict children of addicts, or abused children of abused children get this. Their OWN personal pain and anger won't let them see that usually their parents were victims of some kind of abuse, too.

Even more, such children often have problems with their own children. Funny thing: THEIR problems are their parents' fault... but their childrens' problems... are their childrens' (own) fault.

Or... they want THEIR children to understand and forgive THEM... but they are unable to understand and forgive their parents. Or at least pity them.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know: "YOU weren't RAISED a JW, Shel, so YOU don't know!" Foolish person who believes that. JWs aren't the only people who abuse, mistreat, abandon, harm, or don't love/show love to their children. Abusive parents are NOT unique to Jehovah's Witnesses nor do JW kids have the market cornered on being abused. People of ALL religions raised by fanatics of ALL religions have similar... perhaps even worse... experiences.

You don't have to be raised a JW to understand child abuse. But being raised so apparently makes it more difficult to HEAL... and move past it.

If for no other reason than that, I am glad I wasn't raised a JW child. Although, as I've shared before, some people here don't know me. I... am a survivor. Of some things I've yet to see shared here. So what? Children in Rwanda are dying. Elsewhere... others are CHOOSING... ALLOWING themselves... to LEAVE OFF the "Woe is poor little [old-assed now] me" syndrome and FINALLY... GROW up.

If one can't move past their own anger and hate, then they should NOT be surprised when such is displayed toward THEM... by their OWN children. Unless we BREAK the cycle... we BECOME what our parents TAUGHT us [to become] by THEIR example... to BE. Mini-THEMS!! And THEN... we teach THAT... to OWN children.

And we can deny it ALL day long and say that is NOT so, NOT what we're doing... but that only proves my point. Because THAT is what [our] PARENTS said/say. And to do AS they DID/do... yet DENYING that we ARE doing the SAME thing... ESPECIALLY when we encounter problems... even rebellion... from our OWN children... is blindness... and hypocrisy.

Fingers should take care where they point... and rafters should be removed FIRST.

Peace to you, all!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar, who CHOSE to break the CYCLE of anger, abuse, hate, frustration... STUPIDITY... from the moment she brought her FIRST child into the world... and who LOVED the second letter, dear, dear tec... because she loved its truth... AND its love!

[quote]Sadly, not everyone get.

Only You do. I don't even need to read further.

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

And, only you DON'T.

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

You did [need to read further], luv (peace to you! )... but your loss that you didn't. As I've often shared, "Often times the search proves MORE profitable than the goal." Might'a been a [very] valuable "pearl" in there, luv. You'll never know, though, if you don't go look for it. You know, seek... and ye SHALL find... that sort of thing.

On the other hand, this COULD be one of those Proverbs 9:7-9 sit-chee-a-shuns, too, though, so...

If so, then, again... my bad.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

If you`ve had a life before the JW`s it`s possible..You can always go back to the life you had..

There are some that were not born-ins that struggle with trying to re enter back into society as well.
Some are still not happy people...

If your a born in/raised in..You don`t have those options..
Every part of the life you knew,has been amputated..

But dear Outlaw I must say that every part of the WTBS life and baggage that one knows and then amputated is a good thing. Let Go....Let God....is what can heal!
Every part of my life served a purpose while I was allowed to remain inside under men in charge. Everything that was a part of my life I can use to help others as well. It is an opportunity to show empathy and compassion for others because of my life.
It was by means of my Lord Jaheshua Mischajah that I have been healed.
I could not have done any of it on my own. It is by understanding his great mercy, love, compassion and forgiveness and what he did for me personally that I can now share and show others inside what he can and will do for them as well if they want it!

And it is free!!!

Your childhood was stolen from you,now your friends,family,marriage,social life,are all gone,destroyed..
Theres nothing left but scars and ashes..

Again, my Lord has healed and filled me with what was lost. His promise has been true. " Anyone that leaves houses, father, mother, brother, sister or land for the sake of MY NAME will receive many times more and will inherit everlasting life"...
And now even some family are returning to my life...


The people who did that to you are smiling and telling you it`s your own fault..

Who cares what they think LOL!!!!

They`ll remind you every time they see you..They`ll take pleasure in it..

Again, who cares what they think! If were happy that's all that matters.

Many of us won't survive ...Oompa,farkel..Ect..ect..
They can`t cope with the extreme loss that is inevitable,when your born in and walk away from the WBT$...

Yes, I agree, some cannot cope with it. But even more carry in them anger, rage and resentment that weighs heavy on not just the health of an individual but the spirit in them as well.

Some us will fight back,
It may be the only thing that keeps us alive..

Yes, and it is how one chooses to fight back. I personally have found that the advice in Romans 12:17-21 to work well.
[color=#4000FF]
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone.
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay, says the Lord.
On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

I must admit it is a challenge at times that I do not always do but I have found more open doors this way.


Thank you for the opportunity to share and may ALL who truly wish be given the ears to hear the spirit which is our Lord and the bride as his body say...COME!... and those thirsting come, take lifeswater which is holy spirt for FREE!
Love and peace to you all, your sister and fellow slave of Christ, Kim

I realize it's tough for most who grew up JW (peace to you, all!). Some would say, though, at least such have an EXCUSE for how you grew up. SomeTHING... as well as perhaps someONE to "blame." Not all do.

Some, many, also lose family and friends going IN... as WELL as coming out. And, as dear 'Mom pointed out, for some its hard to go back. Some may not have anything to go back TO. Perhaps all they left is gone. Are dead. Perhaps what they try to go back to is ALSO not forgiving even though the WTBTS is behind. Who knows?

ALL face challenges when leaving the Borg... because the Borg is designed to MAKE it a challenge. Those born in may have never known the outside. Those who went in may find it hard to reunite with an outside they were misled to forsake.

The only ones it ISN'T hard for are those who CHOOSE not to LET it be. These CHOOSE to shake ALL hold THEY have on the WTBTS... in ADDITION to the harlot's hold on them.

Some things in life we have NO choice in. Some things....are ALL about choices.

Some choose not only to have their bodies set free from the WTBTS, but also their MINDS and HEARTS... and SPIRITS.

Those who can't see their way to do this should NEVER question why some African Americans are how THEY "are"... given that slavery ended over 100 years ago (and Jim Grow about 60 years ago). They should NEVER question why poor and certain third world people can't break the cycle of poverty. Because the excuse is the same: their culture... and mentality... is ALL THEY KNOW. The 'hood... IS ALL THEY KNOW. Warlording... IS ALL THEY KNOW. Growing coca, poppies, Taliban, racism... what have you... IS ALL THEY KNOW.

Yet, they are ridiculed for not CHOOSING to change. Interesting, no?

Choice is a WONDERFUL thing. A FREEING thing. A RIGHT FULL thing.

One should not only endeavor to USE the wonderful, freeing right of choice... but use it wisely. Choosing to hang onto anger... hate... judgment... may not be a wise choice. Certainly isn't a non - hypocritical choice.

Just sayin.

Peace... the way Christ gives it: where you can not like a thing, be totally against it... but not have it consume YOU... to the point of eating you eat alive. Some mentioned in this thread did that. Let themselves be eaten alive. And in the end... who REALLY won?

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Hey JM..

I`m happy you found something that worked for you..
I`m not a believer and I`m not about to pretend I am..
I know you mean well but some of us are never going to be believers..
It`s just not going to happen..

Fighting back doesn`t mean returning evil for evil..
It could if you were nuts..LOL!!..
I fight to Live a Better Life than I had..I fight to Expose the Evil I Escaped..


Easier said than done Shelby..Thats why people die trying to get out..
They`d rather be dead than live a lie,sometimes they can`t cope once their out and they die anyway..
It`s a no win situation for those people..The rest of us do the best we can..
I`ve learned to live with the fact..
Very few people will ever understand the lives of those Born in/Raised in..

..........................................OUTLAW

_________________

Thank you Outlaw for your kind response and honesty,

This comment stood out to me and made me smile...
Very few people will ever understand the lives of those Born in/Raised in..


And I heard my Lord say... "Yes child, but I do completely understand. Was I not a born in myself?
But I am here for ANY that want me to take that load and burden and heal them!".

Remember Our Lord is one of those " few people" that can understand. He himself was a born in and raised a Jew according to their laws and traditions. And then stood up to his own people and told them their form of worship had been rejected and was not " truth". In turn HE was rejected, hated, persecuted, lost many he cared about and eventually even put to death for it.

I realize for UNbelievers this may not mean a whole lot, but for anyone that still has even a spark of faith to be able to see and understand that Christ knew and understood everything we have been through. Remembering he was " tested in ALL respects".

May you be given the Peace of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah the way he gives it, so you can be healed and find joy from what the WTBS did and does to you,
Love your sister and fellow slave of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah, Kim