xjwsforChrist

I must add something that my Lord is reminding me OF, after reading above of your conversation with Him:

I spoke above about the ones who do not do something that HE said to do out of ignorance. Such as partaking of his body and blood. If such ones truly love Him, but do not fully or accurately understand this one thing (or any other thing) that He has told them to do, HE will not abandon them. His love IS greater than that. (that would not be love at all, abandoning someone for not understanding, but who does truly love you and want to do as you command). If they will not hear from Him - cannot, for whatever reason - He will send those who do understand TO them, or send the one who does not fully understand to those who DO. (or perhaps something in their life will be placed there to help them see the truth) So those who understand can HELP; helping not for their own glory, but for His, and to send that one to HIM, thereby building UP His Body.

They simply expound upon and show what HE said (and says), to help that one hear the truth from Christ.

Like with Phillip and the Ethiopian. Like with the example of, I think Priscilla? and Paul. Like with Cornelius and Peter. Even like angels who came (and still come) to help explain. Like with me also, because I used to think that the literal communion/partaking of his body and blood (wind and bread) was NOT important. That his words were just symbolic of learning from Him. I wanted to do what He said, but I fought doing that one simple thing, making justifications as to why He did not really mean what He said. So I did NOT partake at all.

(And it had nothing to do with the jws, because I was not raised in nor baptized as one. But that mistaken belief did make it easier for me to accept what they said, that we do NOT partake. Instead of listening to Him... who said TO eat and drink of his flesh and his blood)



I hope that helps, at least with regard to His love for any and all who belong to and love Him, and also to those who are SEEKING Him truly. Not that His sacrifice for us does not show that already.


Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Paul, may I ask, what does this mean to you?



Because regardless of how you interpret eating and drinking of Him... our Lord in this verse is very clear that unless one DOES this, one does NOT have life in themselves.


So that the argument (apologetics, not anger) that one does not have to do ANYTHING in order to receive this gift (other than believe)... does this truly hold up with regard to the above verse? Perhaps arguing what is meant by flesh and blood is a distraction... from the truth that one does indeed have to do what our Lord said above in order to have life in them.


**
Please also understand that no one is saying that all those who do not currently partake cannot enter the Kingdom and so receive life. They do not have that life in them NOW, so as to be raised UP on the last day. But they are invited to enter the Kingdom (that comes down from heaven)... on the basis of the good they have done to Christ, by doing good to even the least of His brothers. They do this because the law -of love- is written upon their hearts.
**


Peace to you again,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

(Smile) No, I didn't mean that "loophole, luv (peace to you!). I meant the loophole of not doing "just so." Of not OBEYING... and so DOING what he SAID/SAYS. Dear, dear P... first, I am GLAD that you listened and asked. And perhaps he had you do so... so that you COULD perhaps learn where perhaps you're still struggling? Because, per your comments, HE didn't answer your "question" as to this matter... but directed you to go on an ask HERE. Why would he do that, rather than just TELL you that what you believe is accurate... and the basis for it?

So, please know, I, for one, am glad you listened... and OBEYED... at least in that regard.

As for your question:

As dear tams (peace, luv!) stated, we can't say we LOVE him... can we... and NOT do what he SAYS? I get it that you're having difficulty reconciling what he is recorded to have said... with what we are sharing with you here. Truly, I do. Your conundrum is did he REALLY mean to partake of bread and wine? Or did he mean simply to listen to his words - "feed" on his words, "drink in" what he said.

But, c'mon, luv: first he told them they had to eat of flesh and drink his blood. That UNLESS they did so, they would NOT have life in themselves... and IF they did so... HE would resurrect them. Meaning, he would bring them to life in the FIRST resurrection... versus them having to wait for the FATHER to do so in the SECOND resurrection.

THEN... he told them HOW ("Take, eat, this MEANS my flesh... blood"). THEN he told them how OFTEN ("KEEP doing this..."). THEN he told them WHY ("As OFTEN as you do it you KEEP declaring my death..."). You, though, dear one, stopped at his words before he even MENTIONED eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Which words some of those who LEFT him... AFTER he told them they would need to eat/drink... heard! THOSE words were WONDERFUL to them. His later words, however, apparently not so much. And that's kinda where YOU are, dear one: "stumbling" over this very same command.

Now, he said HE would resurrect those who eat his flesh and drink his blood. If we LOVE him... TRULY love him... wouldn't we want to be resurrected BY him (versus by the Father in the second resurrection)... AND partake of the gift HE holds out to those who DO love him: co-rulership with him as king-priests?

Well, okay, then! And in THAT light, we should DO... what he said/says to DO, yes? True, as you stated, we DO so... OUT OF LOVE. Our DOING, though, is what MANIFESTS... makes APPARENT... that love.

Dear, dear P... you're a husband. If your wife constantly told you she LOVED you... but did not do what you ASKED her to do... would YOU not question her LOVE?? Surely, you would! And even though YOU would still love... and care for... HER... would it not mean MORE to YOU if SHE loved and cared for YOU in the same WAY? And so, just as you showed HER... YOUR love... SHE showed you HERS for YOU? Of COURSE it would!

Why, then, presume our dear Lord is any DIFFERENT as a HUSBAND?? And is he not OUR husband, we being his BRIDE??

WE cannot question CHRIST'S love for US, no. You are absolutely right in that. BUT... HE can... and certainly WILL... question OURS. It is his RIGHT to do so, luv, as is ANY husband's right. AND wife's!

You, though, are overlooking EVERYTHING he said... for ONE thing he said. One thing he said before he said SO MUCH MORE. But he ALSO said:

"I have MANY things to tell you... but you are not able to BEAR them, yet."

So, even THEN he didn't tell them EVERYTHING they "needed" to know. And so, if just "believing" was SUFFICIENT... what else WAS there? What else did they NEED to BE told? Why "bother" them with anything ELSE... if THAT was the be all end all??

And what if those who were around when he said what's recorded at John 3:17 just stopped there? Just took what he had said up to that point and considered that sufficient, the "end" of it? What if the apostles had decided, "No, we don't need to attend that last meal - he's pretty much said we don't need to do ANYTHING... except believe he is the Son of God... and we get LIFE! Why even GO???"

They went... because they LOVED him. And BECAUSE they went... because they OBEYED... they received MORE. More than just everlasting life. They received special POSITIONS: rulership over the 12 tribes of Israel! And only THEY received that privilege! Why? He told them:

"Because YOU are the ones that have stayed with me through my trials!"

That, dear one... staying WITH him... EVEN THROUGH HIS TRIALS... is DOING something. They stuck with him... out of love, yes. And they shared that meal with him, out of love, yes. And... he rewarded them MORE... for doing so! For OBEYING him.

So I can only speak for myself, but what I am sharing with you... trying to share with you... ISN'T about eating and drinking in order to get eternal LIFE - it's about OBEYING... as a MANIFESTATION of our LOVE. HE said that we should remain IN [UNION WITH] him. That if we DID, WE would receive life from him. And Paul clarified that when HE wrote:

"... there is NO CONDEMNATION... for those... who are IN Christ..." Romans 8:1

And so, once again, how did CHRIST say we can be "IN" him? He said:

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them." John 6:56

Now, you've ADMITTED that you partake of his flesh and blood, yes? So why are you ALLOWING the "blockage" as to understanding what he MEANT when he said to do so?

You have to ask yourself, luv, what your concerns are TRULY about. Because since you DO it... and recognize WHY you do it (love)... there should be no issue at all. We have shared, stated, and clarified WHO the "command" is for... and why.

I hope this helps, truly! Please, though, do NOT be discouraged if it isn't clear to you, as WE have shared it, still. TAKE it to our dear Lord. Ask HIM to clarify what is still unclear TO you... and if it's different, then come and share that with US. Until you hear from him DIFFERENT, though, surely you can see why WE can't change OUR understanding. Because it is the understanding WE received from HIM.

Peace to you... dear, dear brother!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Well, since He quite obviously does NOT mean to eat and drink His blood literally, then it means He is using a metaphore or an analogy, right?
Since He was adressing the issue of "mana" from Heaven, it seems to me that He is speaking of taking in HIM, not only His words and His teachings of course BUT also His Spirit.

Yes, I see Shel.

And it is with heavy heart that I have to say that it is time for us to part ways.
See, what I received from HIM directly is NOT what you here are receiving.
He told me to come here and ask directly BUT He also said that I would not get the answer that I was hoping for, that it would NOT reconcile with what I was hearing from Him BUT that I MUST come here and "see" for myself.

He said that my path is a different one from those here, that my time here is at an end BUT I didn't want that to be the case...

Alas, it is.

We have gone in different directions and there is a reason for that.

I have seen things happening here, changes that I didn't feel comfortable with BUT I never said anything because I believe that we all must find our path to Christ, BUT my path is now taking me in a different direction.

I have to trust Our Lord and believe in Him because He saved me, He was there through the loss of my Father and gave me strength and love beyond what I thought possible, I trust in HIM and in His plan for me.

The understanding given to me differs from that which you all have here and I thought that I could still be here and simply voice my view to agree when I agree and to present a counter-argument when I didn't BUT I don't feel that is the case anymore simply because I don't think that what I say matters anymore here.

You all keep saying for me to ask Our Lord, the problem is that the answers I get are NOT the same as the ones you get.
When I asked Him about this He said, " There is only ONE TRUTH and I AM the truth, the light, the Way, trust in me".

I will miss all of you and I love all of you deeply, but my time here has run it's course.

May Our Lords love and grace be upon you all and all those you love and hold dear in your hearts.


Paul

This is very sad. I will miss you Paul.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

I understand you may feel it time to leave, dear P (peace to you, dear, dear brother!). I have to admit, though, that I DON'T understand:

1. How you can love us... yet have been silent (as to whatever you have been), if it means the difference between life and death for US;

2. Why our dear Lord would tell you one thing and others of us something else (and on reading all of the posts I have to say I'm not sure he did, but just that our understanding of the details differ);

3. And why such difference is the reason (for your departure). This isn't the only thing we don't see eye to eye... or perhaps even heart to heart... on... yet we still call and consider you a brother. WE recognize that WE are not anyone's teacher but only Christ is; all we can do is share what we receive from HIM. For instance, that now that we've been washed clean... by HIS blood... we are to REMAIN virgins... NOT fornication with women... the harlotous daughters of Babylon the Great... AGAIN. We recognize and ACCEPT that you are not there, yet, dear one... but we have NO doubt that as you continue to follow our dear Lord you will get there. I'm kind of confused, then, that you apparently don't have faith that WE will "get" where YOU are in our understanding as to this matter... if where YOU are is truly the right understanding.

BUT my confusion as to things isn't important, doesn't matter. What's important and matters is that you listen to the Spirit as he guides YOU. Obey and do just so. So I can only conclude that our dear Lord himself has told you to leave this city (otherwise you are choosing to do so and that's entirely okay - NO ONE is a captive HERE)... and NONE of us should stand in HIS way.

So with VERY heavy heart... and speaking ONLY for myself... I bid you adieu, Godspeed, and as ALWAYS... the GREATEST of love and peace to you, dear, dear brother... and to your dear household.

But PLEASE know, I TRULY understand your decision. Because just now our dear Lord reminded me: you are not the first to make such a decision because of this very matter... nor will you be the last. Indeed, it was one of the most divisive for his early disciples... and still is today. The WTBTS' entire denial and withholding of it, while yet claiming to "know" and be a FAITHFUL slave... is proof.

Perhaps because of OUR experience there, our dear Lord has seen fit to make this matter of much greater importance to us. Because it is the one and only thing that separates and divides HIM... within HER members. Given who they are... it must be VERY important to HIM that they do. Because that separation is the very thing of power they use: those considered "anointed" among them, who ALONE are ALLOWED to partake. This is not a menial issue, dear one, but them literally DENYING others ACCESS to the TREE OF LIFE... the leaves of which are for their CURING... and to the WATER of life... the blood of Christ.

They are denied access not just to something they should HAVE... as YOU have... and I have... but our dear Lord said they MUST partake of... in order to be resurrected by HIM. To take part in the FIRST resurrection... AND to live forever. To have life WITHIN themselves.

They, however, have convinced millions... MILLIONS... of poor souls that they don't NEED his flesh OR blood... because they have life WITHIN themselves... WITHOUT him.

Yet, how can that BE... in light of our dear Lord's own words? Either he is the liar... or they are. I'm going with they are.

You, though, take care and may JAH bless you and your household... to time indefinite!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

My brother PaulS, Peace to you!

Yes, as Shel mentioned, we don't all see eye to eye on everything as our dear Lord is leading us into ALL Truth!
While some are babes, some mature, some holding on to strongly entrenched baggage, our Lords patience, mercy, and undeserved kindness continues to show us where we are nothing of our own.

That without him we can do nothing!

It is why for me personally I need to constantly plead for him to " Make ME do His will," and work on doing what He says not what I think he means.

I find in my conversations with many that were previous JWs that they say they have NO baggage left.
Yet the single, biggest baggage they hold onto is the fact they cannot come to the point where they can partake of our Lords body and blood. They may believe in him now, know that the WTBS took him out of the picture and replaced it with the GB and Jehovah in everything but...they still do not believe what our Lord said. Enough to listen and obey HIM!

Which is so sad, because they were okay with all the things big or small that the society told them to do. But what our Lord promises through him is just too much to ask.

Now I realize you said you do not have an issue with partaking ( you and your family).
It is just how and why you may feel is different. If we all truly say we love him, and he does not lose any that belong to him, then I have no doubt he will be clear as to what he says to us. It is always whether or not we want to do what he says or...what we want or think he means.

I have enjoyed your sharing and conversation and questions immensely my brother. They have helped me in my journey here as well. Thank you for being here. If it is our Lords will, we see each other again soon my brother.

May the Love and Peace our of Lord Jaheshua MischaJah be upon you and your family to time indefinite,
Your sister and fellow servant of Christ , Kim

Oh, my.... I'm a little flummoxed by this turn of events.

Paul, like others, I'm sorry to see you go, but understand your reason. I wish you all the best.

Now, a good point is raised here. I don't claim to hear... at least, not as some of you do. So, how can it be that two people who do hear so clearly get different answers?

I don't even get it.

Paul, my brother, I will first say that if you are going, then take with you our love and also peace, as our Lord gives both peace and love. May He lead you into all truth, if that is what you wish.


But before you go, I must also repeat that those who believe in and love Christ will DO as He has told them to do. If we do not truly believe in and love Him, we will not DO as He has told us to DO. So that the verses in John that you have placed are true... all we need to do is believe in Him... because if we TRULY believe in Him and if we TRULY love Him, that HE is the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Truth, the Life, the Resurrection... then we WILL do all that HE has told us, including anything that He has told us that we must do in order to have life in us so that He will raise us up on the last day.

THAT is how you reconcile those verses that you have shared with all of the instructions and commands that He has given us.

If we do not do as He has said, and if we teach others that they do not have to do as He has said (why do you call me Lord, Lord, but do not do as I say?), how can we say that we believe in Him or that we love Him? How can we even remain in Him?

We cannot.

Because HE has said, "If anyone loves me, they will do as I command. My father will love them, and we will come and make our home with them."

And,

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them."

And to Peter when Peter did not at first believe that Christ was right to wash his feet:

"Unless I wash you, you have no part in me."

He even said that they would not understand what He was doing until later... but that they should do as He had set the example for them TO do. Understanding may come later; obedience comes first... because LOVE comes first, and we love because HE loved us FIRST.


Of course, you DO partake, and you do so out of love for Him. As do we.

But as you know, there are those who teach that people can have life in themselves WITHOUT eating and drinking of Christ, contrary to what Christ Himself has taught. Those who listen to them instead of to Christ are saying no to Christ each and every year. How can one say no to Him, how can one NOT do what He says to do... and still claim to be taking in his words?

Consider perhaps his words here at the last supper when He gave the wine and bread, and told his twelve to eat and drink of his flesh and his blood:


"This is the cup of the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you." Luke 22:20

How can one be in the new covenant if one does not drink of the cup of the new covenant in his blood, that He poured out for us? And if one believes in Him, and loves Him, then one will also BELIEVE his words, and DO as He has said to do.



Just as you DO know that you must partake of Him... and you do so simply because you love Him.

So again, my brother, may you have peace and love for you and for your loved ones, and may you have these things as Christ give them. Keep listening to Him, keep following Him, keep LOVING Him... and may He bring you into ALL truth.


To ANYONE thirsting and anyone hungering, may you be given ears to hear the Spirit and the bride when they say to you, "Come! TAKE the free gift of the water of life."



Your sister, and your servant, and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Heya Paul,

It seems you have broken the chains that bound you here. I feel a bit of relief in how you revealed yourSELF here. I have pondered much of the same in my own human existence and spiritual well-Being, as my posting history here will attest to {and that of the old forum here, before it was revised and i deleted much of it}. Yet, I too, was questing for understanding upon these issues.

Paul, take good care. Of yourSELF and that of your family. I give you many well wishes.

Sincerely, ~sKally~

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

There are, were, and never will be any chains HERE, dear Skalls ( peace to you! )... and I take issue with you even implying such. Dear Paul cannot reconcile what we are sharing with what he is hearing... some if not much was possibly learned through his training at seminary or even possibly through his current religion. Perhaps not. If so, again, they are really just strongly entrenched things. Things which many BELIEVE are true... and are sometimes willing to stake their lives... and their household's lives... on... but are actually false. JWS are certainly of such stance.

Regardless, we have NEVER judged... or ENSLAVED... him... or ANYONE else. And never will. EVERYONE is free to come and go as THEY wish and desire... including YOU. Our invitation is an open one as is the Door we preach, Christ.

YOU are here because you ASKED and CHOSE to be. As everyone is.

Please... if this is NOT where you wish to associate... you or anyone else who might be so inclined... feel FREE... totally... to take your leave... at ANY time you wish/need... for ANY reason. And do NOT feel that you need to explain or justify to US why you are doing so.

Because the TRUE sons of God (through Christ) are a FREE people... SET free by Christ... who in turn do NOT "chain" others but RELEASE all.

I forgive your implication. I realize you simply don't know any better and so your comments, must sometimes be overlooked... and their error clarified. Hopefully, I've done that.

Contrary to YOUR divisively- intended comment, I wish YOU peace.

A slave of Christ,

SA, who just doesn't GET the rudeness of "guests" sometimes... but isn't surprised when they COMPLAIN as to not always being welcome elsewhere...

I can only think of one way, dear LQ (peace to you!)... and that would be different sources. As our dear Lord said, there would be those who "prophesy" in his name... yet...

We don't have to be concerned, though, do we? I mean, we have a MEANS to know: we can always test the (inspired) expression, can we not... if we can't hear for ourselves (yet)?

So anyone who IS confused should perhaps reread thread... SLOWLY, if necessary, and if they can't hear from Christ HIMSELF as to what is TRUE, then simply test it:

By what Christ would have DONE himself, had JAH issued the command; or

By love... for God AND Christ; or

If none of these help, then by what is WRITTEN as Christ SAYING to DO... and how that affected some.

If none of these suffice, then perhaps one might take a step BACK... rather than pushing forward with his/her own understanding. But EVERYONE... HERE... has the RIGHT... and is FREE... to CHOOSE.

I hope that helps, truly!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

I reread earlier, NOT because I was confused, but because I can't see how anyone CAN get confused, especially when they test things in line with the above bold text. It isn't as if Christ asks so much of us...and He has clarified it all for us, not only by what we hear but also that which is written. I really can't see why or where anyone would have a problem with obeying Him in this. But maybe I'm missing something....I keep wondering how our Lord feels when He sees us struggling to obey things that are no hardship at all...especially when He has articulated it so clearly for our understanding...

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"