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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:47 am 
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MEDEWTYSENU SAID

There is also indication that the "disgusting thing" standing in a holy place (amongst the other anointed) is this Evil Slave. The anointed is God's Temple (Body of Christ/Bride of Christ) and as such are his representatives on Earth at present.

When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place, . . . then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.”—MATTHEW 24:15, 16.

It's time for every faithful witness to get out of the WTBTS. The Governing Body have set themselves up as an object of worship (disgusting thing) and any person who wishes to remain faithful to Yahveh must leave immediately.

Morgan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:48 am 
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JUSTMOM SAID

MedewtySenu wrote:

Quote:
EDIT*
They have essentially replaced Jesus with themselves with this teaching.
Now here's the interesting thing. According to Revelation 7:1-3 the anointed (which includes the present FDS) are taken to heaven or resurrected before the four winds are released and the Great Tribulation begins. Which means they are no longer present on earth when the Great Crowd is chosen and brought out at the conclusion of the Great Tribulation. So as of right now, there are no "Other Sheep".

If you read Revelation 7:9 it says this Great Crowd came "out" of the Great Tribulation, showing very clearly that none of the Great Crowd have even been chosen yet because the Great Tribulation has not yet begun. Since this is the case and since the FDS is taken to heaven before the Great Tribulation begins then who are the Governing Body claiming to be mediators for?

The answer? No one, since they haven't yet been selected because the GT hasn't yet started or ended........


Matthew 24:45-51 is the parable they often quote (the Governing Body) for their "authority" however they mistakenly attribute the rest of the parable to Christendom, which wouldn't make any sense. In the Bible, God always disciplines his own people first AND then the nations. This scripture actually is a prophecy that the WTBTS is unknowingly fulfilling at present.
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Notice that part of the Faithful and Wise Servant becomes the "evil slave" because their master "seems to be delaying, (because of the false promise of 1914). This "Evil Slave" (while still being of the anointed) begins to treat the domestics (God's people) badly and eats and drinks with the drunkards....You may recall when the UK newspaper the Guardian reported that the WTBTS was a United Nations Non Governmental Organization (NGO) and the WTBTS in response to the article resigned their NGO status? There was a lot of flak about that and the WTBTS tried to talk their way out of it, but the damage had been done as they had used their political affiliations to get around certain restrictions in other countries. This political union was (according to scriptural principle) adultery/fornication with Babylon The Great..........I'll let that sink in for a moment. THE WTBTS has in essence become unclean and this is why God's people are commanded to "Get out of her MY people, unless you want to share in her sins" Revelation 18:4

The "Evil Slave" is running the organization at present, it has allied itself with the nations and has uttered false prophecies over the years. What do you think will happen to the Governing Body and any JW's who remain within the organization when Jesus does return?



Hello Morgan and thank you for sharing

I agree with your understanding except I see something a little different in Revelation 7:3 It says "Not to harm the earth and the sea or the trees until AFTER we have SEALED the slaves (144,000) of our God in their foreheads."

I do not see that they are taken before the great tribulation just they will all be sealed at that time. (No more calling/chosing)
Isn't this also described in Matthew 24:29-31 "IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days..........(31) [b]"he will send forth
his angels and gather his chosen ones from the four winds"

verse 40-41 "some will be taken and some abandoned"

Also as far as the great crowd in Revelation 7:9 and 13-17 "It was asked who these were and where did they come from? but I don't see that they had not been being gathered prior.?

By the Governing body of 8 narrowing themselves down to being the only ones described as the FDS (Faithful and discreet slave) amplifies how self-righteous they truly are!!

Thank you for your encouragement as always
Justmom


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:48 am 
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DING SAID

1. The "Laodicean Messenger" (Russell)
2. "Jehovah's visible organization"
3. "The faithful and discreet slave"

are all concepts that have been used by the leadership of the Watchtower Society to supplant Jesus Christ and substitute subjection to themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:49 am 
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JUSTMOM SAID

Yes Ding

You are so right. Couldn't agree more.
Simply put!

Thanks
Justmom


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:49 am 
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MEDEWTYSENU SAID

I had realized after I made the post that I had made an error concerning the part about when the anointed are taken from heaven. Joel 2:28 straightened me out on this one. Sorry about that.

One thing that caught my attention and was pointed out to me by the Spirit is the verse in Revelation that speaks of a crowd of people standing before the throne, having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb and having palm branches in their hands (I don't have my Bible handy at the moment to give the chapter and verse). Originally the WTBTS identified this group as the Great Crowd, however the verse I mentioned in the above post seems to dispute that assertion. The verse clearly show the Great Crowd come put of the Great Tribulation (at the conclusion of Armageddon) but this verse shows certain ones already having white robes (clean standing before God) during the tribulation. It makes sense to me that these verses which follow the identification of the 144k are not talking about the GC at all but the anointed, given their placement before the throne. Of course I do understand that later on John has a vision of the 144k standing with the Lamb on Mounjt Zion (Heaven) and singing a new song.

I'll have to think about this some more before commenting further.

Morgan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:50 am 
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PAULSACRAMENTO SAID


The word used that describes the "great crowd" before the thrown of God in heaven, is the same one used that describes where everything else is before the throne in heaven.

ἐνώπιον enōpion

ex: Revelation 1:4
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who [fn]is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;


In both verses, enopion is used to locate where the 7 spirits and the great crowd are.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:50 am 
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JUSTMOM SAID

Quote:
MedewtySenu wrote:
I had realized after I made the post that I had made an error concerning the part about when the anointed are taken from heaven. Joel 2:28 straightened me out on this one. Sorry about that.

One thing that caught my attention and was pointed out to me by the Spirit is the verse in Revelation that speaks of a crowd of people standing before the throne, having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb and having palm branches in their hands (I don't have my Bible handy at the moment to give the chapter and verse). Originally the WTBTS identified this group as the Great Crowd, however the verse I mentioned in the above post seems to dispute that assertion. The verse clearly show the Great Crowd come put of the Great Tribulation (at the conclusion of Armageddon) but this verse shows certain ones already having white robes (clean standing before God) during the tribulation. It makes sense to me that these verses which follow the identification of the 144k are not talking about the GC at all but the anointed, given their placement before the throne. Of course I do understand that later on John has a vision of the 144k standing with the Lamb on Mounjt Zion (Heaven) and singing a new song.

I'll have to think about this some more before commenting further.

Morgan





Good Morning Morgan and thank you for sharing. I too have a habit of speaking while sorting things through. Sometimes gets me in trouble. lol

I believe the verse you are talking about with reference to the great crowd is Revelation 7:9-17. And I notice you mention the 144,000 being annointed versus it seems like the great crowd are "not" annointed. I may be reading your post wrong but RevelatiON 19:1-3 SAYS "There was a voice of a GREAT CROWD in heaven and back in revelation 7:9-17 they are before the throne rendering Jah sacred service in His temple with white robes made white with the blood of the lamb. My understanding is that it is the priests whom are only able to be "before the throne" serving in that capacity. Revelation 5:9&10 does mention something we were never taught and that is "they are singing this new song and praising the lamb because he was slaughtered and bought persons for God "out of every tribe,tongue and people and nation (sound familar/great crowd) ...and you made them to be a kingdom and "PRIESTS" to our god, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." So not only would they be annointed with holy spirit but they are also priests.

Would love your thoughts
Justmom


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:51 am 
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TEC SAID

That is my understanding as well, Justmom. The 144000 (of Israel), together with this great multitude from every tribe and nation that had washed their robes clean in the blood of the lamb, are ALL anointed, and serving as kings and priests.

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:51 am 
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DING SAID

I just heard of a loyal JW who is greatly upset by this "new light."

It remains to be seen how many will be awakened by this and how many will just ignore it as inconsequential.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:51 am 
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YPPUPLLEH SAID

Can a puppy get a super condensed version of what this means?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:52 am 
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TEC SAID

Code:
Hellpuppy wrote:
Can a puppy get a super condensed version of what this means?



I don't think I can help you, Puppy. I don't know that I understood what the GB ever taught to begin with.

But basically, if I understand correct (and I probably don't), the wts says that they don't listen to the anointed (even though those are the ones who are supposed to be in union with Christ/the 'heavenly class'), because they can't tell who they are; and so they do as they think is right?

Hmm. I don't think I got that right. Maybe Outlaw will come back and sum it up for the couple of us that don't know as much about these particular jw matters.

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:52 am 
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PAULSACRAMENTO SAID

ALL the receive the HS are anointed.
Before, during and after any tribulation.
Christ means anointed, Christians mean anointed ones.

1John 2:20
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.

You can only be a Christian when you proclaim and believe that CHrist is Lord and you can only proclaim and believe by the anointing of the HS.
All Christians that proclaim and believe that Christ is Lord are anointed by the HS.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:52 am 
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MEDEWTYSENU SAID

Seems to make sense that all would have the Holy Spirit if they asked for it. I mean considering the only real difference between the two groups is one goes to heaven and the other doesn't. Personally (and I have said this to Yahveh and Yaheshua numerous times) that I would be content to stay on the Earth considering I have never married nor had children. To be sure seeing God, Christ and the angles would be a thrill but my understanding is that once you go to heaven you don't get to come back to Earth (this seems to be supported by the parable of the Good/Evil Slave where some are beaten with many strokes and others with fewer strokes). Also Moses was kept out of the Promised Land because of his failure to always give credit to Yahveh (the occasion when he struck the rock for water rather than asking the rock to give forth water and when he became incensed at the Israelites and took credit for some of Yahveh's actions).

I have also wondered why I don't have as clear an understanding of some things as Shelby does. It might be my own failure to listen or it might mean something else entirely. I have wondered from time to time if I am actually part of the Bride of Christ because of this. However I do recall that Paul said that not everyone used the Spirit in the same manner. SOme were Prophets, others were Teachers, some spoke in tongues or interpreted what was being said and some were Healers.
Often if I have a question, rather than getting a direct answer the SPirit directs me to the Scriptures. It might be because most of the people I speak to won't listen to anything unless it comes from the Bible, despite Jesus words at John 5:39. It really bugs me sometimes.

No matter the case though, HIS wilol be done.

YSand FSofC
Morgan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:53 am 
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PAULSACRAMENTO SAID

I think we need to realize that without the bible to direct Us to Christ, we would not even know about Christ.
We would have only the words of others and IF written words can be twisted, as we all know they can, imagine oral tellings, especially when they don't all tell the same thing !
We just need to always remember that the bible POINTS the way to Christ and is NOT a substitute for Christ.
I tend to get most of my views, as I express them, from the bible and when I am asked about something, I answer it from the bible.
Why?
Because I have found that, regardless of how anyone views the bible, all seems to view it with SOME authority.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:53 am 
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MEDEWTYSENU SAID

My apologies for my bad grammar and now having to go back and edit my post. I was outside running on laptop battery power and didn't proofread.

I guess many of the old WTS teachings still influence me on some things. I have tried to sort them out but some still hang out like a bad habit. LOL

To respond to my previous post concerning the two groups. Yes it makes perfect sense to me that all Christians would have the Holy Spirit if they asked for it and it was granted to them. The "anointed" do not have a monopoly on that. The WTS has even admitted such in the past. So what is the difference then? If both groups are to preach and both groups are anointed with Holy Spirit then the only thing that seems to differentiate them is one is sealed in their foreheads and the other is not. The scriptures cited concerning those standing before the throne and having washed their robes do indicate that it's one big Great Crowd. Perhaps the "anointed" or rather those with The Heavenly Calling (THC) are taken from that crowd. I guess I got a bit confuzzled because the Bible in it's present form has chapters, verses and subheadings which give an indication of the context of the chapters. but this wasn't always the case and so I jumped to a conclusion that wasn't supported by the scriptures nor the content of the text.

I do wish I had a copy of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures for reference as my Bible in Living English isn't always the most accurate.

At the same time though I wonder why I don't get information in the same way that others do. If I try to directly ask Yaheshua for an answer I get silence, which leads me to conclude I may not be of the Bride Class after all since Shelby can do this and I cannot. It's frustrating to say the least.

Morgan
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