xjwsforChrist

Absolutely, dear P (mornin' and peace to you, luv!). Which is why James exhorts us with the following, which I received from our dear Lord himself as part of HIS training:

"Do not merely listen to the Word (me), and so deceive yourselves (self). Do what it (I) say(s). Any(one) who listens to the Word (me) but does not do what it (I) say(s) is like someone who looks at his (her) face in a mirror and, after looking at himself (herself), goes away and immediately forgets what he (she) looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom (which law is LOVE), and continues in it — not FORGETTING what they have heard (from me), but DOING it — they WILL be blessed in what they do/that task (for DOING it)."

When he explained this to me, he also helped me understand that this is NOT about abstractions. It is TRULY about listening LITERALLY to his voice... and what he SAYS... and then DOING whatever it is he says. For example, there were two times when he woke me in the middle of the night and said, "Your sister is hungry; feed her." He did not mean share some bible verses/scriptures with her. He meant to literally get up out of my warm, cozy bed and literally pack up literal food... and take it to her. At 3am/4am in the morning. And so I did. NOT because I am "something", but because he SAID to do it. And I didn't look for any kudos - none were deserved. Because I did "what I OUGHT to have done"... what I would have wanted someone to do for ME, had my household been in need of food. Yet, I received GREAT blessings... because he gave me MORE truth as to himself and the Father. For ME, NOTHING has greater value! I mean, to be led... into ALL truth... the full realization of which is PURE LOVE?? What can top that?

He tells us to "DO" things all the time. And not necessarily big things. Okay, maybe he tells one to build an ark. But he tells another, "Join yourself to that chariot." Or "feed my sheep." Some things are big, yes. But MOST are small... if not tiny. Maybe even the size of a mustard seed.

The question, though, is... do we LISTEN?? Not "do we HEAR"... because HEARING is not the point. The POINT is... do we LISTEN? I.e., pay ATTENTION to... SO AS TO HEED/OBEY? And so, means ACTIVELY DOING what he says WHEN he TELLS us to do something.

For example, when he told Philip to join himself to the Ethiopian eunuch. Or when he told Ananias to receive Saul of Tarsus. When he told Peter to go to Cornelius. When he told the Prophets to tell Israel their error. When he told John the Baptist to go before our dear Lord. When he told Peter to feed his sheep. When he told Noah to build the ark. When he told Abraham to leave Ur. When he told Lot to leave Sodom. When he told John and others to "write" what they were given to see. Etc., etc., etc. What if these didn't DO what he told them to DO?

How could they say they HAD faith (in him)... if they DIDN'T DO what he told them to DO?

The thing is, most don't really believe he speaks. To them or to anyone. And so, when he DOES tell them to do something... they dismiss it. Overlook it. Justify it away. Usually by lying to themselves (and saying they told themselves, or "something"... "a little bird", etc., "told" them). They almost NEVER attribute what they hear to HIM... and so, they rarely DO what he tells them TO do.

The HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) is NOT dead... or absent... as MOST of the world believes. He is ALIVE. And for one to say they BELIEVE that... yet deny that he SPEAKS... to them or to ANYONE... is NOT TRUE faith in him. It certainly isn't true faith in his RESURRECTION. The LIVING... SPEAK. It is the DEAD that are silent.

We can say we believe/have faith in God and/or Christ all day long; however, if we don't DO what they TELL us... and that is NOT limited to what is "in the Bible," but more importantly, what they say to one NOW... then, as dear James wrote... one is fooling oneself. Utterly. Unfortunately, convincing someone that they ARE fooling themselves is not always an easy task. I mean, we all know JWs are fooling themselves... but try to tell an active, still believing one that they are. How will they receive this? Will they not deny it, even view you as an enemy, even though you're truly only trying to HELP... help them "SEE"... where they are in error in their following after FALSE prophets and FALSE christs? Where they are hanging onto false teachings and doctrines fomented by men... designed TO misled, on behalf of the Adversary... EVEN the chosen... which teachings they've allowed to be SO strongly entrenched (in them) that for some, it literally TAKES an act of God to remove them?

What, though, if we were doing the SAME thing... fooling OURSELVES... by hanging onto similar teachings and doctrines... false and fomented by men... and designed to mislead US?

The thinking that we don't have to DO anything is one of those teachings. We CANNOT say we have faith IN Christ... if we are not OBEDIENT to him. And we are NOT obedient to HIM... if we don't LISTEN to him. And we don't LISTEN to him... when we don't DO what he tells us to DO. And we don't DO what he tells us to do... when we don't ACKNOWLEDGE what HE tells us to do. Now. TODAY. Not just close to 2,000 years ago.

The Word of God that is Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... is ALIVE. And... he speaks. Are we LISTENING, though... so as to be DOING... when he DOES?

Just some things to consider, dear ones, which I truly hope helps (those who want to be helped).

Peace to you ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Is there a way to mark a topic/post as FAVORITE? I wish there was. The last post by Shelby just made the top of my favorites list.

Nevermind. I'll just put in LQFAVORITE in here and then search for that later.

I agree LQ, a wonderful post Shelby. I particularly love this part:



So many mainstream religions teach that if we simply believe in Christ we are 'saved', but that's NOT what Christ says.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

No mainstream teaches that all we do is believe and we are saved.
The gospel teach us that:
John 3:16

The whole issue of "works based salvation" is that you can NOT earn salvation because it is a gift from God.
The works that are good that we do are because God is working IN US to do them because we know that we are saved by His Grace.
We do good works BECAUSE we are saved, not to be saved.
In short:
Belief in Christ = Salvation, Salvation = The HS in US, The HS in US = Good works out of love for God.

So, yes, to be saved "all" that is needed is believe in Christ.
With that belief comes good works that are fruit of the HS in US.

I'm sorry, but I cannot fully agree with you, dear, dear brother Paul (mornin' and peace to you, dear one!). Here is why:



Let's review what that verse says:

"God SO loved the world that He sent His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not die but have everlasting life."

Let's look at that word, "believes," though. The Greek word is "pistevō/pisteuō", which means basically what you're saying. It comes, however, from the root word "peithō." Now, here is what THAT word means:



Now, I want you to notice something, if you will indulge me. Items 1.d... and 2.b, which state, respectively:

"d. to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something"

and...

"b. to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with"

Do you see that? The problem is that, often, language translators go with what THEY think a word means... and/or want it to mean... and it's usually the most common usage. Or... the usage THEY'VE been taught to attribute... based on THEIR religion/faith. Which can be wrong, yes? But primarily, it's because such folks don't really THINK (beyond the most common usage) or don't want to LOOK/DISCERN (beyond the most common usage). Or, most important... don't want to rely on HOLY SPIRIT... to "guide" them in such translation/understanding. All of which result in errors... in understanding and, subsequently, translation... because such are based on one's own thinking... rather than on what the Originator of the statement may have MEANT.

In THESE instances, those relating to JAH and Christ, then, the result is often false teachings. Which is WHY Christ said, "WOE to you... SCRIBES." Because it is THEIR "false stylus/pen" that has done the MOST damage in leading people AWAY from JAH and Christ. I mean, people believe they are to follow "what is written." And so, what if what is written isn't ACCURATE?

Which is the case here. The word "believes" is accurate... but only to a point. It does not FULLY set forth what our dear Lord MEANT. Because it (1) takes the most common usage, and (2) does not consider the ROOT of the word and so what he may have TRULY meant.

How, though, can one know what Christ DID mean... when he said "whoever BELIEVES"? Well, if he was DEAD... one probably couldn't know. But THAT is the BEAUTY of his resurrection! He ISN'T dead, not at ALL... but is alive! He lives... and speaks! FOR HIMSELF... if one only has to faith to HEAR him. And if so... all one needs do is ASK him what he meant. And/or listen when he TELLS them (even if they didn't ask).

One can also look to everything ELSE he said, including:

"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord'... and yet DO NOT DO the things I SAY?" Luke 6:46

Of course, many believe that ALL of the words contained in the Bible are "scripture," and that the Bible is the Word of God and so infallible. But that only makes the point. Because THE BIBLE says that CHRIST is the Word of God and that it is HE that God said/says to listen to. And Christ himself is recorded IN the Bible to say that it is not in searching the scriptures... but by coming to HIM... that one can receive life:

"You search the scriptures because you THINK that by means of them you will have life. And these are the ones that bear witness about ME. Yet... you do not want to COME... to ME... that you may have life..." John 5:39; 40

and...

"COME... to ME... all you who are toiling and loaded down. TAKE my yoke..."
Matthew 11:29

and...

John 7:37, 38

and so on. All of these require DOING something, not just believing WITHOUT manifesting that belief.

Now, I realize that some are also confused by the situation with Thomas and our dear Lord's words to him ("Because you see, you believe? Happy are those who believe and do not see!"). Some teach that this means one only has to believe (in Christ) without having seen him. Believe he exists, even though their eyes don't behold him. But he meant more than that, dear one. He mean that the time would come were there would be those who believed in him... and LISTENED to what he said/told them to do... EVEN though their eyes didn't behold a literal "person" standing there in front of them. They would hear... and OBEY... without regard for those who believed them "insane" for "listening to a ghost", etc. ("Whad'ya mean, he TOLD you?! WHO told you?! I don't see anyone! There's no one THERE!"). But such ones HEAR him... even though they may not SEE him... and so are still able to OBEY him!



Please bear with me, but I think you're confusing salvation... with everlasting life. Let me explain: the woman Rahab received salvation. She was indeed saved... from the destruction that came upon Jericho. Israel was saved... from perishing under Pharaoh. Noah was saved... from destruction in the Flood. David was saved... from death (under the Law) due to his error with Bathsheba. Many of the early Body was saved... from annihilation at the hands of the Romans. Lot was saved... from being destroyed with the inhabitants of Sodom. MANY were saved. BUT... although saved, they did NOT receive eternal life. Not yet. For they ALL died.

Why? Because of sin. The wage (cost/price) for sin... is death. And all of these had death IN them. And so... they all died. The GIFT, however, that JAH gives... is EVERLASTING life. Which gift will be given to THESE... by means of a resurrection FROM death. In that light, they are "saves"... from everlasting death and DESTRUCTION... by Christ... who RESURRECTS them:

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:54

But did you notice what he said they had to DO... in order to BE raised up (by him)? He said:

"Whoever EATS my flesh and DRINKS my blood..."


He didn't say, "Whoever just believes in me." No, such ones have to DO something. Something that MANIFESTS their faith IN him... and what he said HE would do (for them). They have to eat his flesh... and drink his blood. And not just any flesh or any blood... but HIS flesh and HIS blood. Meaning, they would also have to DISCERN that it WAS his flesh and blood that they were/are eating and drinking! But even more than THAT... they have to BELIEVE that BY eating/drinking... HE will DO what HE said.

That, dear brother... is the manifestation of faith... to the "preserving alive of the [soul]." Faith that "befits repentance." Faith... DEMONSTRATION by (a) work: actually DOING what he said. Eating his flesh and drinking his blood. And not just "observing" while others do it... while making a CLAIM of belief (in him).

Do you see?



I cannot disagree with you that HOW we do such good... how we are ABLE to do such... is the result of JAH working good IN us, through His Son. BUT... we are free-will agents, luv. And so we can CHOOSE... to NOT do good. To RESIST God's spirit working in us. Not just resist, but even DENY it. I am actually given an example to share with you here, to perhaps help you see what I mean:

King Saul was CHOSEN, literally, by JAH Himself to be the first human king of Israel. At some point, however, Saul chose to DISOBEY JAH... NOT listen... and do his own will. Hence, he consulted with a spirit medium, the woman of Endor, as to the outcome of a battle. Something he was TOLD... NOT to do. Keep in mind, this was a man who was not only personally chosen by JAH to be the king of His people... but who had JAH's very spirit ON... and IN him! How, then, could he go AGAINST JAH... and so something AGAINST what JAH had TOLD him to do? He could... because he always had the CHOICE to serve... or not serve... the MOST HOLY One of Israel. As we all do.

As our Adversary had. That, one, too... CHOSE to go against the spirit of JAH... and do his OWN will. JAH Himself chose that cherub, and PLACED him. His own spirit was with and upon that cherub. Yet, that cherub CHOSE to do something DIFFERENT than what JAH had willed... and TOLD him to do - care for the garden and those placed in it:

“You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

"You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

"You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

"Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.

So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.

"So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

"By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.

"So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’" Ezekiel 28:12-19


We have that SAME opportunity, luv, to listen... and OBEY... or to CHOOSE to do our own will. EVEN if JAH's spirit has been given us:

"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

"Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), 37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.

"Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

"Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Acts 432:-5:4

So to this that just because one has God's spirit one CANNOT go against that spirit... is an error. We can not only do works that manifest the goodness of God's holy spirit... but we can RESIST that spirit. For example, as I COULD have ignored my dear Lord's voice... and just gone back to sleep (when he told me to get up and take my sister food). Or I could have deceived MYSELF and told myself he meant to "feed" her "spiritually. But I knew EXACTLY what he meant... as he ALLOWED me to know.

.

I don't disagree with this, either, luv. But with some "enhancement":

Belief in Christ... MANIFESTED through our works = Salvation (from everlasting destruction, either by taking part in the first resurrection or being resurrected to LIFE, vs. to judgment, in the second resurrection) = God/Christ working THROUGH us, by MEANS of God Himself dwelling IN us, THROUGH Christ dwelling in us = us "bearing" MORE "fruit" of that spirit.

So, yes, to be saved "all" that is needed is believe in Christ.

Which belief is MANIFESTED... by SOME "work," yes. I mean, we can believe God when He says He's going to bring a deluge upon the entire earth... and then just sit and wait for that to occur. After which we might be able to say to our neighbor, "Yep, see? I TOLD'ja! He SAID He was gonna send a flood upon the whole earth, and I believed Him. And Look! It's raining... and hoo-whee, that's a LOT of water!!"

Thing is... what neighbor? What... YOU? It FLOODED. THE ENTIRE EARTH.

In which case, it might have been BETTER... to BUILD AN ARK... to SHOW you believed Him. To SAVE yourself, your household... AND the animals He TOLD you to save. Do you SEE? YOU were SAVED... because you DID (something). You OBEYED His direction TO you so as to BE saved.



Sorta. And for us those of the Body of Christ, yes. Because WE cannot do "good" on our own. But remember, some of the nations (world) do BY NATURE... and so NOT by holy spirit... the things of the Law. Including loving THEIR neighbors... as themselves.

I hope this helps, dear, dear P, truly, luv.

As always, PEACE to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Now you are getting into the area of "one saved, always saved" and I don't wanna open that can of worms, LOL

I would think my comments suggest just the opposite, luv (peace to you!)... LOLOLOL!... although I wasn't touching on either way! But I TOTALLY get your not wanting to go into that topic. Me, either. At least, not just now. Because I think you get my "drift", here. At least, I hope so (wink!).

No, worries, though - the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, shows mercy to WHOMEVER He wishes to show it... and for whatever reason. Even none... if that's how He's feeling at the time. Usually, even such folks SHOW some gratitude for that mercy, though. By DOING something. Even if that's only TELLING others what happened to them... and by means of Whom.

Ennywho...

Oooh! Methinks ah "heahs" a (haf'a) salamyi sammich wit' bred n' budda pikkels "cawlin'" ME! An' ah IS hungree, so...

Peace, dear, dear brother! TRULY!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

In theology and Christian doctrines, salvation always means "eternal life", ie: salvation after our human death.
It never means being saved at a particular time or from some event.
When a doctrines refers to salvation it means after we die ( unless we speak of the second coming and who are alive then).

My issue with using the term "works" has always been NOT that there are things that we should do, BUT that some may think that doing certain things is what will lead to salvation.

I just wanna be clear that IMO, salvation is based on our faith and belief in Our Lord.
That "good works" come from that faith is, to me, obvious.
That said I understand why some need to be reminded of good works.

In theology, yes, dear brother (mornin', peace to you... and THANK you for this opportunity to share further, the WONDERFUL good news about our dear Lord!). And in "Christian" doctrines, I would say "doctrines," yes... but that such are "Christian" is questionable. MOST so-called "Christian" theology and doctrine is based on MISunderstandings of what Paul "believed" (and so taught)... OR HIS misunderstandings and so erroneous teachings... which was sometimes in opposition to what the Apostles believed... and taught. Even more, what Christ himself taught. Paul didn't have first-hand, intimate knowledge of our Lord as did 11 of the 12, nor did he know "all truth" when he first started out. He LEARNED such, as our dear Lord SHOWED him... over time. He had to SUFFER, though, to learn much of it and turn from his (former) "pharisaical" ways and way of thinking.

That said, a year after telling the Corinthians what appeared to be that they didn't need to "do" anything, he wrote to the ROMANS, both Jews and non-Jews, in the 10th Chapter of his letter to those dear ones:

"Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “[Jesus] is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

As you can see, Paul wrote that there is something to DO. One who is SENT, is SENT... to DO (something). Preach... Christ. Declare WITH THEIR MOUTH... and NOT just believe with their heart. But Paul didn't stop there:

"But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."


I need to clarify here, that that last statement "the message is heard through the word ABOUT Christ..." is an ERROR. That is not what Paul wrote... or meant... but what the scribes who erroneously translated his words state. What he WROTE... and MEANT... was:

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing... by the Word of God."

That Word... is Christ... who SPEAKS. And the true MEANING of that verse is "by hearing (what God has to SAY)... THROUGH, BY MEANS of, on ACCOUNT of... and so, HEARING LITERALLY... that Word of God, Christ.

But hearing... WHAT? Before we get to that, let's continue:

"But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”

WHOSE words? THOSE who LISTENED to the Word (of God)... and DID what he TOLD them to do: TELL OTHERS ABOUT HIM... he, the GOOD news (of God's kingdom). But let's continue with Israel:

"Again I ask: Did Israel not understand?

Apparently, they didn't. Because although they WILL be saved, yes, they will only be saved as SUBJECTS of God's kingdom. Because, they were "pass[ed] over"... and lost their place AS KINGS ... as those who were SUPPOSED to be "a royal nation", "a people for SPECIAL possession"... in the kingdom. Pass(ed) over... in favor of those of the NATIONS... who DID hear... get it... and DID what they heard to DO. As Paul continues:

First, Moses says,

“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”

And Isaiah boldly says,

“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”

But concerning Israel he says,

“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”


To be DISobedient... means to DISobey... as to DOING... or NOT doing... something. To be obstinate means to REFUSE to do... or not do... something. For Israel, it was to put faith in CHRIST, the One JAH CHOSE to lead them... and so LISTEN to and FOLLOW that One... an a manifestation OF such faith. Which listening and following is MANIFEST... by DOING... what that One SAYS (to one).

As a NATION, Israel failed utterly in this direction not only from Moses, but from JAH Himself. Certainly, then, they wouldn't... don't... listen to the One JAH raised from the dead.

Deuteronomy 18:15, 18; Matthew 17:5; Luke 16:31

But this isn't limited to Israel of old, no. Remember, "Christians" came FROM Israel... through the Jews. And so, "Israel" today. And still, even down to this day, they show themselves the "sons" of their forefathers: disobedient... and obstinate.

Even so, Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

"For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel." 1 Corinthians 9:16-18



In theology and "christian" doctrine, perhaps not. But I can't really speak from those perspectives, dear one. I can only speak as the One we're talking ABOUT... the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) DIRECTS me to speak. By means of HIS spirit... and truth. And so, that "some [men]" believe... and so teach... a thing... is of not concern to me. It's either truth... or a lie. In this instance, it's a lie.



Men's doctrines, yes. But, as was said of Israel... such men "do not know the righteousness of God." Because they don't know the One who IS such righteousness. Else, they would know the TRUTH. Including about this matter. There is more than one kind of salvation. There is more than one resurrection. And there is more than one kind of resurrection to life. One that is to eternal life... and one that is to a brief period, after which there is destruction. ALL (who have not been already destroyed) will be resurrected, either in the first resurrection... or the second. Because there will be a resurrection of the righteous... AND the unrighteous. And most believe to be resurrected means to (correspondingly) be saved. It does not.



I totally understand. But, again, we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Rather than having an issue with the term... and that some might think doing certain things will lead to salvation... perhaps we should reflect. That there ARE certain things... works... to be don't... but not what most THINK they are (i.e., not things of the Law, per se). Then, we can concern ourselves with what CORRECT things those are... so that WE know them... and can accurately and TRUTHFULLY share them with others.

I say "per se" as to the doing works of the Law, though, because, remember, there ARE at least TWO things of the Law we MUST do... and that is "Love JAH with our WHOLE heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love our neighbor as ourselves." Because these ARE commandments under the Law, indeed, the two GREATEST. But there are others, the doing of which is SUMMED up in those two. For instance, can I be loving JAH, at ALL, let alone with my WHOLE heart, soul, mind, and strength... if I don't LISTEN to the One He sent to SPEAK for Him? Can I be loving Him... OR my neighbor... if I murder my neighbor? Or falsely speak against my brother? Or covet my neighbor's stuff?

When I love JAH (with my WHOLE heart, soul, mind, and strength) and my neighbor AS myself... I would AVOID doing these things, to the best of my ability, yes? And when I fell short, call upon the blood of the "sacrificial Lamb" HE provided to CLEANSE me of my error. Yes? But I would have to CALL upon that blood. How, though, can I call upon it... if I'm not even obedient to the One whose blood it IS? ("Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' yet do not DO the things *I* say??").



It IS, luv. But that faith is ACTIVE. It is not just an abstract belief. It is faith that LIVES. And, again, the living SPEAK. And... do. It is the DEAD who are silent... and INactive. And I don't mean the dead in BODY... but the dead... IN SPIRIT.



Again, for us who are the Body of Christ... yes. For you, perhaps. For me, certainly. I am NOT good. I would not DO good. It is my means of my dear Lord that I DO. BUT... I also know that there ARE people who do NOT have faith... in God OR Christ... people "of the nations" (i.e., those who do NOT belong to JAH)... who do good.

The account of the "Good" Samaritan is a perfect example of that... and this very discussion is the reason WHY our dear Lord GAVE us that example. There, ones who DID belong to JAH... because of being JEWS/LEVITES... and yet, did not KNOW JAH (as Paul said of Israel... PROVED they didn't (really) know Him... when they "passed over" their own brother lying, dying, in the street. THAT was a violation of the Law (which is summed up by and fulfilled in LOVE). They PROVED they didn't know Him... by their WORKS (of passing their brother by). Because HAD they known Him they would NOT have walked passed him... but HELPED him.

However, another... ALSO of Israel but considered by JAH (and thus, the Jews) as (temporarily) no longer belonging to Him due to THEIR rejection of Him... and so considered to be "of the nations"... showed by HIS works that he DID know JAH: he picked the man up... and made sure he was cared for. EVEN though... the man was considered his ENEMY. HE "fulfilled" the Law by his WORKS. Matthew 5:44-48

This man, however, did not do what he did BECAUSE of the Law... OR the spirit of JAH in him (because that spirit had not been poured OUT, yet - John 7:37-39).. but because of his own NATURE.

Which is why it is utterly RIDICULOUS for one who claims to be a "Christian" to go around CONDEMNING those who are NOT. Our job is to offer Christ... to ANY who wish to receive him, yes. And to pray for those who don't. Even so, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it... and for the most part, that IS based on works:

[b]"To the extent you DID it... to the least of these my brothers... you DID it... to ME."

Such ones don't KNOW they're doing/did it. Because they do it BY NATURE. We, though, don't necessarily DO by nature the things of the Law. And so Christ, our dear Lord... has been sent... NOT just to give his life and blood for us... but to TEACH, GUIDE, and LEAD us... those of us who do NOT know how to do such things... BY NATURE.



And I am one such person. Not that it's hard. It isn't. And it ALWAYS feels good. However, it is not IN MY NATURE to do good works. And so, I had to be taught... and led. Which is why I MUST follow him. Because left to my OWN nature... I would prolly just write most folks off. Sorry, but this is the TRUTH. I KNOW me... and so I am GRATEFUL for what he has taught me... and led me/is leading me to do. I DESERVE to be written off by HIM.

Praise JAH... for His mercy (in NOT giving me what I DESERVE... and NOT writing me off)... and grace (giving me what I DON'T deserve... sonship... AND a place in his kingdom... which is granted along WITH everlasting life).

I hope this helps, dear, dear P. If not you, then whoever else might need to "see" as to these things.

The GREATEST of love and peace to you, dear, dear brother!

Here is the thing though Shel,
The vast majority of what God asks us to do would NOT be qualified as works by the very people that preach the "works that make God happy".
They would say that to be loving, to honour God, to worship God, to give and take care of others out of love for them and God, is not work.
They would point out that many non-Christians and even atheist do that ( minus the God part of course).
They would point out that the "true work" is to preach the gospel ( in their way of course) and obey the laws ( like the Sabbath for example) and that unless you go to church and get baptized (their way of course) and only observe the special days they deem fit, only then are you doing good works.

My point has always been that when we accept Our Lord and believe and proclaim ( in deeds more than words IMO) Him, that what we do are NOT works.
No more than it is work to eat, to drink water, to bathe, to cut our hair when it is too long, to trim our nails when they are too long, to take care of our family when they need us, etc, etc.

I hear you and agree, of course , but I am simply expressing my view that doing what Our Lord asks of us ( whatever it may be) is no more "work" then cleaning the tears from our children's face or blowing their nose.

See, the thing is, dear, dear brother (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and how I think "differently" from some... most... due to have learned from our dear Lord himself:

Rather than just let such ones continue in their error (which usually translates to continuing to mislead others as a result of such error)... I exhort such ones to:

(1) Look up the definition of "works", and then

(2) (RE)read John 5:17, 19-21.

Because not ALL "work" is labor and toil. Surely, we should consider the creation an act of LOVE on the part of JAH, yes? Yet, such are HIS "works." From which He is resting. Genesis 2:2, 3 Perhaps because the very activity of creating, itself, took SO much energy FROM Him. Required so much EXERTION and ACTIVITY on His part.

Yet, as our dear Lord is recorded to have said:

“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

“Very truly I tell you, the Son can DO nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father DOES the Son ALSO DOES. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."

Work... is ACTIV(ity), luv. DOING "something." It can be physical, yes. It can also be mental... or spiritual. Even when work IS labor, however, it can be labor... OF LOVE.

And that... love... is what should be the MOTIVE... for OUR work(s). Not wanting to be something... or somebody. Not even for want of some "reward." The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... didn't make the creation because He wanted something IN RETURN. He did it... out of love. Same as why His Son, our dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA... the CHOSEN One of JAH (MischaJah)... gave his life and blood.

So, I DO hear you, dear, dear P. I just hope you TRULY hear ME.

Words... are VERY important. Because it is with THEM that we lead... and mislead. Speak TRUTH... or... that which is NOT true. Whether such words or verbal... or written.

Peace to you, dear one. Truly.

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel