xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID

May you all have peace!

In another place the issue regarding the resurrected body has been raised (http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/frie ... -or-Christ) and, quite unfortunately, some very erroneous statements regarding that have been made. Because it is topic of interest to some, I am moved to address some of what was stated there here, if you will indulge me - thank you!



He did and the flesh will take part (briefly) in the second resurrection; however, that is in fulfillment of the words of our Lord, to fear Him that can kill the body AND the spirit in Gehenna. Such ones are either (1) resurrected to life (and thus, first to flesh... then after, due to having their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life, they receive "white robes"... bodies that can go in AND out and so are INcorruptible)... or (2) resurrected to judgment (and so to the flesh, but because of no white robe due to having no "covering" for their sins and so no name in the Lamb's Book... judgment, then destruction of the body AND spirit in the Lake of Fire ).

Flesh with IT'S blood... which is the vessel we have NOW... cannot enter into the kingdom of God. NOW, we can only enter IN SPIRIT... through Christ, the Door. Only the body gained in the REcreation... that has been born AGAIN (and so, must have died/changed FIRST), with the result being flesh with GOD'S blood... holy spirit... can enter (go in and out)... and do so through the "12 gates", not Christ... who is in the MIDDLE and, along with God, is now the temple.


Of course he did, initially, else Mary (of all people - she helped prep his body for burial and so saw more than most!) would have recognized him! She did not recognize him, though, by his appearance... until he changed that appearance so that she could. She DID, however, recognize... his VOICE. THAT's how she knew who he was! NOT by what she SAW. Unlike the fleshly body, which is BOUND and so can't go in/out or change its shape/appearance... the spirit body isn't BOUND... it is FREE. So not only can "go in and out"... but it can change. It can transform/transfigure! "Like" the angels!


Indeed, he did. In fact, he wrote JUST that - that we would change "unto Christ" (who is a SPIRIT)... NOT "unto Adham" (who was a man of flesh... with IT'S blood):

"But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being (soul)”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.[/u] And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man." 1 Corinthians 15:42-49

That is with regard to BOTH resurrections, though, as to those who DIE and must BE resurrected. Regarding the FIRST resurrection, however, PAUL also wrote about those who do NOT die ("I am the resurrection... AND the life! He that has died will be brought back to life; he that has NOT died... will NEVER die!"):

"Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that [Jesus] died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with [Jesus] those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, [i]we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, [color=red] and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

He reiterates this in his 2nd letter to the Corinthians:

"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

That "clothe(ing)" is with the WHITE robe... the body that doesn't have sin (and thus, death) IN it... and so CANNOT die, but must be destroyed - by fire. Which is why those spirit beings who sinned have been bound: they don't die - they are awaiting destruction.



I described my Lord AS HE IS... as he has PLAINLY shown himself to me, which is what he promised:

"'Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and s[color=#FF0000]how myself to them. [/color]Judas(not Judas Iscariot) said, 'But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” [Jesus] replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and [u]we will come to them and make our home with them." [b] John 14:21-23

That he hasn't shown himself to EVERYONE, even some others who might believe he SHOULD... plainly or otherwise... is his business, not ours. Some might consider that their denial of him might be the reason.



Unfortunately, the poster goes further in the misapplication of verses as well as her presumptions here. The MOST Holy One of Israel is merciful. Peter's denial of Christ was not done with a "corresponding God honoring spirit/attitude"? Nor was his hypocritical treatment of the nations when in the presence of Jews. Nor was Paul and Barnabas' sharp words with one another. More than that, SIN never honors God. When, please tell us, does sin EVER honor God? Yet, John wrote that we have sinned, do sin, and would sin... else God is a liar. And that if we are in union with Christ we are under obligation to obey HIS commandments, including releasing, forgiving, and so NOT judging. 1 John 1:5-2:6'

The MOST Holy One of Israel wants MERCY from us... not sacrifice... and we HONOR Him... when use our bodies to obey Him in THIS... when we observe HIS "fast", show tender compassion toward our fellow man, speak TRUTH with one another, manifest the "fruits" of HIS spirit, and things like these. Things that Christ set the example for us to follow!

So what do WE care if another sins (with the exception, perhaps, of blasphemy)? We either forgive and overlook the error... or we speak to that person alone, if necessary, and if he/she doesn't listen, take one or two others with us, and if he/she still doesn't listen, speak to the Body, and if he/she STILL doesn't listen... consider them as part of the world. We must remember, though, that God LOVED the WORLD... which includes these... and so, as Christ directed us, pray for [our enemies]. He did not say to judge such a one.



Here, the poster misstates more verses. The word used in this statement presented as "body"... is, in Greek, psyche... which is NOT the body... but the breath. We must love God... the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... with our whole HEART (kardia, or seat of motivation)... SOUL psyche - or breath/life force)... and MIND (dianoia - thoughts/understanding). Even if these Greek words were incorrect (due perhaps to the false stylus of the scribes), the body is not mentioned in loving God... because we cannot love God with our bodies. Because He is a SPIRIT. True, we are called the "Bride" of Christ and are promised in marriage to him, but to love Him with our imperfect, soiled, corruptible bodies would be like the angels who took wives from among the daughters of men. It is when we are "changed"... and put on WHITE "robes"... that our marriage to him will take place! In the meantime, we are given a TOKEN of that promise... that betrothel... in the form of an anointing with holy spirit!

The body of flesh is merely a temporary dwelling place for God (i.e., tabernacle)... which will be replaced by the permanent dwelling. It is not something we can love God WITH, per se. Just as the temple at Jerusalem wasn't something Israel could love God WITH. Such a teaching about the body flies in the fact of God's mercy, through Christ. If the body of flesh was as important as some believe... then Christ would NOT have cleansed the flesh of those whose infirmities profaned the Law. He certainly wouldn't have touched them. But he did touch them... and so cleansed them. And yet, they died... AGAIN. NOT because they sinned again... but because they were still clothed in the SOILED garment, the CORRUPTIBLE body, the unclean vessel... the body of flesh (with IT'S blood).

Many undertake to throw about "what Paul (and the Bible in general) says" but fall short - far, far short. Because they truly do not understand the UNdeserved kindness and mercy of God... and shown to mankind by Christ. They don't... because they are leaning upon their OWN understanding, rather than relying on the Holy Spirit, Christ, the Fine Shepherd... and the blood of God, holy spirit... to lead them "into ALL truth." If they would only condescend... bring themselves down, rather than trying to bring God and Christ down. But this would require a modicum of faith, just a mustard seed's portion... which, sadly, is not the possession of all [men].

Again, peace to you all!

A slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

AGuest wrote:





Thank you my sister,
Always encouraging reminders and truth.
Such a profound statement and so true. That we cannot love God with our BODIES! Because he is a SPIRIT, we can worship him in spirit with truth John 4:23,24 but our bodies ARE sin! And they will betray us everyday. Praise Jah that he does not look out the outside vessel or garment and judge us accordingly else NOONE will stand. It is our hearts we want to pray to soften so holy soirit will dwell in it and not harden ourselves to it.
I am continually grateful that he loves us and is so merciful and compassionate towards our weakness of the flesh.
Have a blessed day!
justmom

AGUEST SAID

Your pic and dear 'Mom's comments remind me of a funny (as in peculiar) and sad thing I know of, dear PSacto (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!). Dear 'Mom will know of what I'm sharing:

I once knew a man, a fireman by trade, who was quite a good-looking guy (well, in his and his wife's opinion, anyway - LOLOL! They never failed to let me know that - LOLOLO!). And because of his job, he was quite fit, as well. He was very concerned with his body... how it looked, whether it was "fit"... and the bodies others' (I knew because of the way he looked at others and comments he made about THEIR bodies - weight, muscles, size pants he/they wore, etc.). I had the privilege of staying with him and his wife for a time when former hubby and I split and so got to know him quite well.

He and I once had a discussion about this topic, the "uselessness" of the physical body and he had a hard time with it. He just could NOT wrap his head around the thought that the flesh was of NO use at all and so much focus on it was, well, folly, from a spiritual point of view. I even tried to help him see how our dear Lord's physical body proved that - it was a MESS, actually - yet, he is the Son and Holy Spirit... loved, chosen, and glorified by God, his fleshly vessel having absolutely NO bearing on that, whatsoever. So, we went back and forth about for awhile until, at some point, he indicated that he was done with the conversation (which I was actually glad of - I get a little "tired" of people who always need to discuss physical appearances, etc. - I have learned that "quality" in a person is in no way related to the pounds they carry!).

This was about 14-15 years ago, and his last statement to me on the topic was, "Ah, hell, I don't care - I'm bionic." And, to his credit, the man really did look to be great physical shape, too - very strong, muscular, not an inch of fat on him... and no wrinkles, although he was in his mid-50's. And he was rarely sick, indeed proud that he had never missed a day of work in about 10 years.

I remember that statement vividly, though... and it came rushing back to me when, about 7-8 years ago... I learned that he had dropped dead of a heart attack. While on vacation. He and his family were vacationing in Tahoe and my understanding is that he walked out of the bathroom... and dropped dead. Right then and there. No stint in the hospital, no partial recoup then decline. Just dropped... and it was over.

My point? So long as I AM in a body that's free... what the body LOOKS like is irrelevant. I don't care if it's tall, short, fat, slim, black, white, brown, whatever. My understanding is that I can make it do whatever I wish to, so how it looks WHILE I'm doing... not so important to me. Praise JAH, though, that since the spirit body IS free I can pretty much make it look like I want it too. Which, for MY taste... is more Marilyn Monroe/young Liz Taylor than, say, a modern [Victoria's Secret] skinny-butt "angel" - LOLOLOL! I SO want to ask those poor girls to put on a few pounds... if not some clothes - LOLOLOL!

Unfortunately (for guys like you), having a spirit body that sports insanely large boobs won't probably be the "turn on" it is for men of flesh - LOLOLOL! Just a little obscene looking in that realm - LOLOLOL!

The flesh IS of NO use at all, dear ones. At least, not in THIS world, where it has sin AND death IN it.

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

Yes I can vouch to that story. It is so sad. He was here one day and gone the next. I was actually surprised myself as I thought his wife was going to go first.
That is truly a sobering reminder that the outside vessel is so weak regardless of how physically beautiful it may look.

justmom

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Our bodies are a temple, given to us to treat in the best way possible.
To be strong and healthy and to take care of this bodily gift given to Us by God is important BUT we must NEVER fall into the sin of vanity and pride.
Like the planet that was given to us to be stewards of, we must take care of it and our bodies for the glory of God.

Now, my point of the Superman pic was not a "looks" one but one based on the Superman mythos-
Kal-El, as in EL = God.
How Superman is called a "god" by those jealous of Him.
How instead of ruling, the most powerful being in our universe SERVES Us and would even Die for us.
How Superman helps Us when some say He should solve the problems, etc..

That and how his powers have always reminded me of the angels:
Flight, super strength, from a different world, etc.

The Superman mythos has always borrowed heavily on judeo-christian influences.

And it would be so cool to have his powers ! LOL !

AGUEST SAID

Yes, I knew what you meant by the Superman pic, dear P (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!), but must admit that I perhaps I was trying to take the discussion to here... because of the comment by the OP as to the body being a "temple" (but didn't want to go on in the first post, so...), so thank YOU for doing so (LOLOL!):


Yes, our bodies ARE temples, yes (and can be temples of God, if we belong to Christ). But I have to point out the realities of that and I do so using the examples of Paul... and our dear Lord himself. Are bodies are temples... in that they are the dwelling place of spirit(s). They are even more so when they become the dwelling place of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). When THEY come and make their "abode" IN us, our bodies act as temples for THEIR spirit. And so we are called upon the PREPARE ourselves for that in-dwelling.

It is not by caring for the OUTSIDE of the "cup", however, that we do this; it is by cleaning the INSIDE of the "cup." Thus, if we think that caring for the vessel itself is "important," then we are misunderstanding the UNDESERVED kindness... and mercy... of both God and Christ.

First, let's look at Paul: if the body was important, our dear Lord would have healed Paul's blindness, which to SOME would have been considered caused by Paul's "sin" (perhaps due to his persecution of the Body, which is what some believe today). This wasn't the case, of course: Paul's deficit in the flesh was caused BY our Lord when appeared in his glory BEFORE Paul. Because his glory was SO bright, he placed his own scales upon Paul's eyes to protect them... from full and immediate blindness. Paul was still stricken, however, and his eyesight eventually failed virtually completely.

In an effort to regain his sight, however, Paul called upon our dear Lord to remove that affliction. Our Lord, however, let Paul know that it was not to be, that HIS mercy was extended to Paul in a different way... one NOT associated with his flesh... but with his SPIRIT.

Second, let's look at our Lord: under the law, lepers were considered unclean, as were women with a flow of blood (the latter for a time of days). Yet, our dear Lord was willing to take the uncleanness of others INTO HIS OWN FLESH[/]i. Under the LAW... he really wasn't even supposed to touch them, yet, he often touched others to heal them... or permitted them to touch him. He never recoiled, however; again, he TOOK their afflictions upon himself.

This reminds me of an experience within the WTBTS, which caused me and my family great consternation. A single young man had joined our congregation and was assigned to work with us out in FS one day. When we met, he extended his hand with his sweater pulled down over his palm. Both my ex- and I gave him a look of confusion, which prompted him to explain: he had HIV and the "brothers" had told him that he needed to greet folks in this manner. Well, both ex-hubs and I scoffed at that and took his hand. Weren't we afraid of contracting HIV (back then, the mid-80's, it was taught/believed that perhaps it could be transmitted through touch)? I can't speak for the ex but, no, I wasn't. I was more "afraid" of treating one of God's sheep as a "leper", which I hadn't learned Christ to ever do. I BELIEVED that if I DID contract HIV, either I could call upon Christ to heal me... or give ME (and my family) the strength to deal with what might perhaps come of it.

I digress...

Now, let's look at the temple: was it a matter of the temple [i]itself becoming unclean... or what was going on IN the temple that made it unclean? As Christ exhorted his opposers, we are to clean the INSIDE of the cup (THEN (perhaps) the outside. Indeed, Paul is attributed with saying it best, in a way that makes it clearer:

"For physical training is of some value, but godliness has value for all]/i] things, [i]holding promise for both the present life and the life to come. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. That is why [i]we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially[/]i of those who [i]believe[/]i." 1 Timothy 4:8-10

I am a perfect example of this: from infancy I have battled with various illnesses of the flesh. Some requiring surgery (per my physicians). All of these I have turned over to my Lord to [help me] deal with. Now, does that mean I don't have to do ANYTHING myself to manage these? Of course, not - as long as I'm alive I have a responsibility... to the SACREDNESS of life, including MY life... to do what I can. However, I don't... can't... let such take the forefront and be the focus of my life... [i]such that they consume me and crowd out listening to, seeing... and accepting the mercy... of my Lord. Which many in the world do... because they are concerned with the outward appearance, particularly such that it APPEARS to be "healthy"... when perhaps it isn't. (Funny, a LOT of emphasis on a healthy "core" now... when for SO many years it was purely the muscles - LOLOL!).

I KNOW by means of whom I live... because I know how many times I should NOT have lived. If the body is "important", what of those who are born with disabilities, perhaps not even much OF a body... or one afflicted from birth? What of those who CAN'T "care for" their bodies, either due to a physical inability to do so... or because perhaps there's nothing they CAN do? Our Lord calls... and blesses... these, as well, dear one.

Not to completely "rain on your parade," though... please know that I DO get your point about the POWERS!... and I am glad that our LORD is choosing who will obtain such powers... and not us! Because I am not sure all (indeed, most) of mankind could handle such, at least not in a way that benefits his fellowman... over himself. Which is what we, those who belong to Christ, are being TRAINED... BY Christ... to DO: BE, TRULY... kings (and so those who champion and protect those they rule over)... AND priests (those who plead on behalf of... offer up 'sacrifices' for... and plead for mercy for... such others)! Which is borne of the "man" we are on the INSIDE... and not the "temple" we are on the outside!

It is not our strength or beauty of BODY, then, that will get us there, but our strength and "beauty" of SPIRIT... which we acquire as we are trained... and "disciplined" by CHRIST... that will.

I hope this helps and, again, the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear, dear brother!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

LARSINGER58 SAID

Okay. I'll acknowledge the potential confusion when you pose the question of whether Jesus was resurrected in the flesh or spirit.

The answer to that was that he was resurrected back into spirit form. Period.

But spirits, that is, angels, sometimes have the ability to materialize into a visible, human body. At that point, they cease being "spirits" but are human or at least "fleshly." So when Jesus materialized into a fleshly body, that was just through the capacity of his being an angel with permission to materialize. It in no way means he was not resurrected as a spirit.

So, just because you are raised up in spirit form, does not mean you cannot put on the human body again if you materialize. The physical bodies Jesus materialized after he was resurrected as a spirit where just that, materialized bodies.

THE 1ST AND SECOND RESURRECTION:

There were comments made on this. I'll just state how it works.

The 1st resurrection is 100% of the elect. Thus it is in no way an resurrection to judgment. The resurrection to llife or judgment are thus specific to the second resurrection where there is a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous. The 1st resurrection is 100% righteous. The 1st resurrection occurs before the 1000-year reign. The 2nd resurrection happens after the 1000-year reign, after Satan is killed, and thus during the period in the bible called "Judgment Day."

Now the 1st resurrection is very tricky and kind of sci-fi, really. It has two phases. The first phase is physical. The second phase is spiritual. These resurrected ones are likened to "seeds" that are implanted into physical bodies first, and then later transformed into spiritual ones. This physical body is not glorious and perfect though. 1 Cor. 15 describes those physical bodies as "weak", "corrupt," and "dishonorable." Meaning, meaning these resurrected ones are sown, one each into a body that is imperfect. What many don't realize is that God is not creating an imperfect body for these resurrected ones to appear in just before the second coming to be ready to rule with Christ on the earth in those physical bodies for 1000 years. No the bodies these "seeds" are implanted in are LIVING MODERN BODIES! That is, they are implanted into the minds of living elect.

How brilliant is this! This means the resurrection is 100% invisible to the common eye. This means you have no problems trying teach someone from the ancient past in an ancient tongue the nuances of the modern world, they instantly speak a modern tongue and share all the knowledge of a modern person!

So basically, the 1st resurrection occurs just before the 2nd coming, when Christ himself comes down to the earth and himself is "sown" into an imperfect physical body, just like those resurrected. Thus the body Christ exists in at the 2nd coming is that of an imperfect man. This is well covered in the Bible. Christ and the resurrected elect, now in modern bodies with modern identities will rule with Christ on the earth for 1000 years. Then Satan will be let lose for a short while and then killed. Then Christ and the physical elect on the earth will become judges during JUDGMENT DAY, when the 2nd resurrection takes place.

Now many of those resurrected at the 2nd resurrection have already been written the book of life and some already condemned to Gehenna. So for some, this resurrection is a resurrection to life, that is eternal life, and for some a resurrection to death, the "second death" or judgment. Again, this only applies to the 2nd resurrection.

Then, after the last person has been judged and cast into Gehenna, the lake of fire, and all who are alive are righteous and set to live eternally on the earth, then Christ who is still in the flesh at this point in a physical body, along with all the elect, those alive in the modern times and those resurrected within them, will then be given incorruptible bodies of a heavenly creature, changed within the twinkling of an eye and then go up to heaven to sip on pina coladas all day and fly around the universe sightseeing. That's right. The so-called "rapture" does not take place until after death is no more and that does not happen until the last man is judged and cast into the lake of fire. So carefully note exactly when corruption puts on incorruption per the scriptures:

1 Cor 15:54 "But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: "DEATH is swallowed up forever." This statement cannot be made until after Judgment Day and the last wicked person has been put to death.

But when you step back, doesn't all this make sense? Doesn't it make a lot more sense, over a period of 1000 years and with so many king-priests (1,440,000 today) helping out, that they should be hands-on in physical bodies on the earth? That is, rather than ruling from heaven, which is rather indirect? What will they do? Inspire dreams and visions for those actually managing earth's affairs? For 1000 years? Better Christ himself is here and those 1,440,000 (144K are natural Jews, making up 10% of the total - see Isa 6:13) king-priests with him right here on the earth! And what's wrong with it? What's wrong with Christ returning to human form for a second time? Isn't that what "second coming" really refers to? Plus, as noted, it makes more sense for God to "download" those being resurrected into modern bodies so that they share a modern identity. That saves you years of orientation and adaptation to the modern era for those of the ancient past.

Of course, being who I am, I got to know of two modern resurrected ones, that is, the new identity of two persons famous in the Bible, Daniel and Peter! So I can confirm the 1st resurrection took place before the 2nd coming. That is, when Christ calls those from the grave for the 1st resurrection, he does it while he is Michael the archangel, with an archangel's voice. So this is while Christ is still in heaven. Once he comes down to the earth and inhabits the body of one of his imperfect followers to be in the flesh with the resurrected, then he is no longer an angel. So that tells us the 1st resurrection occurs just before the 1st resurrection!

Now. If you don't realize Christ and the resurrected are in physical bodies and rule on the earth for the 1000 years, then the above will not make sense. I suggest you reassure yourself through scripture that this is the correct understanding, then go from there.

Otherwise, the time from getting physical bodies and then spiritual ones is a very long time, but the spiritual bodies cannot be given until DEATH is no more, for anyone. That does not happen until after Judgment Day and the 2nd resurrection, when that last wicked person undergoes the "second death." So if you are placing anyone in heaven, even Christ, before the end of Judgment Day, you have to go back to scripture and re-confirm this. NOBODY IS IN HEAVEN from the earth right now!

Even if you cannot come to these conclusions, I'd just note that the WTS is clueless about all this, confirming they are truly cast out of Jehovah's favor and are the "evil slave" and the "man of lawlessness."
_________________
The Bible is true and God is alive!