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The issue with the "bitarian view" ( that there is only Father and Son and that the HS is, depending on the group, The Father, The son or just some "force") is that:
You are missing the TRUTH, still, dear P (mornin' and peace to you!): that there is
holy spirit... or holy water/blood/breath/seed... which is JAH's life force (His blood, breath, and seed - the things that GRANT LIFE, even in THIS world)...
and that there is the HOLY
Spirit: Christ, the
HOLY ONE of Israel... who, like JAH, is a
SPIRIT... the LIFE-GIVING Spirit!
I will try and explain this to you as CLEARLY as possible; however, if one doesn't want to look up the scriptures/verses I include... absent going to and asking Christ himself... then one may STILL not get the TRUTH as to these things. Why? Because one will be relying on one's OWN understanding... and NOT JAH/Christ/holy spirit... and so will believe whatever it is they WISH to believe (still)... even if it ISN'T truth. If one would allow oneself a bit of humility, however, and condescend to at least CONSIDER what is written about these things... then one MIGHT be able to open oneself up to RECEIVING the truth... perhaps even from the SPIRIT of the Truth.
In that light:
The first, holy spirit that is JAH's life force is:
1. "Water"; and
2. "Oil" (of exultation)
As such, both of these are POURED OUT... UPON those who are chosen to receive it. The first, so as to CLEANSE... and the second, so ANOINT. If either WASHES... or FILLS... the one who receives it.
3. Blood;
4. Breath;
5. Semen/seed
As such, it grants LIFE... the REAL life... because it is the life that comes from JAH... NOT from our FLESHLY fathers... and so one who RECEIVES it we be LIKE JAH: able to know "good" (life) AND "bad" (death)... and yet LIVE. How so? Because this SPIRIT is what allows them to be resurrected... to ETERNAL life! Our OWN blood, breath, and seed/semen... CEASES when WE die, yes? But HIS blood, breath, and semen... continues FOREVER.
This is the SPIRIT... LIFE that Christ OFFERED up FOR mankind. After his resurrection, he BLEW it upon his Apostles. Because it can be granted in the form of BREATH - that is how ADHAM came to life: because JAH blew HIS spirit into Adham's nostrils. He then POURED IT OUT... upon those present in the upper room at Pentecost. He POURED it on such ones... by BLOWING UPON THEM, too! This is why they "heard a noise like a wind"! And before any of THIS... JAH poured it out upon HIM... in the form of a DOVE. Why the form of a dove? Because at THAT time, it was in the form of JAH's SEED: "This is my SON, whom I have APPROVED." It simply "floated down" and came UPON my Lord... ANOINTING him as JAH's Chosen One (Christ).
The second... Christ... AS the HOLY Spirit... is the Christ, GLORIFIED (
John 7:37-39). He is a SPIRIT (as JAH is a spirit)... and he is the HOLY One. So... the HOLY Spirit... unlike all OTHER spirit beings (excluding JAH Himself)... who are NOT glorified and so are not "HOLY".
Where you and so many are getting hung up is:
1. The double use of the words "holy" and "spirit." For some reason, you can only see ONE rendering of those words, which I have to admit absolutely boggles MY mind. MANY words have double if not more meanings/uses. MANY. Why these two cause so many to "stumble"... is... inexplicable. Both words, "holy" AND "spirit" means several things... and are APPLIED to several things.
2. The "person" that is the Holy Spirit. This is ONLY because of three errors:
a. The misRENDERING of ONE Greek word "
ekeinos" which means "he/she/it"... and the scribes
chose to render as "he"... instead of accurately as "it"; which they did because THEY didn't have holy spirit leading THEM... and so relied on their OWN understanding.
b. The misUNDERSTANDING of Christ's direction to his disciples at
Matthew 28:19, which led to another misRENDERING... one of THAT verse. My Lord did NOT tell his disciples to go baptizing "in the name of" the Father... and "the name of" the Son... and "the name of" the Holy Spirit. We can KNOW that because, first and foremost... the "Holy Spirit" that those who believe in a Trinity believe IN... DOESN'T HAVE A NAME! They can only refer to "him"... AS "him," "he", etc. If "he" HAD a name... Christ WOULD HAVE MADE IT KNOWN to those who belong(ed) to him. As he made the FATHER'S name known to them.
John 17:6 What my Lord SAID was:
"Go, make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father (who's name they now KNEW)...
INTO THE SON (meaning INTO Christ... by means of being baptized INTO HIS BODY)...
IN HOLY SPIRIT (the "FIRE"... and "water"... that CLEANSES us so that we are BAPTIZED... into CHRIST, INTO HIS BODY)."
We can KNOW this... because JOHN, the ORIGINAL "Baptizer"... SAID that Christ would baptize us... WITH FIRE. And so, we have, for example, this account:
"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive holy spirit when you believed?”(Notice, I have removed the word "the"... because that is the CORRECT translation of the verse. The word "the" does NOT exist before ANY rendering of the words "holy spirit". I also
uncapitalized them... because there were NO capital letters in the Greek and so where such exist they have been placed willy-nilly
by those who lean on their OWN understanding and NOT because of the leading of Christ!)
Continuing:
"They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is holy spirit.”(Notice, I quoted "is holy spirit" versus "there is A Holy Spirit." Because this is the CORRECT transliteration. Again, no capitalization for the same reason. However, the reason for this is because the Greek word "
esti" means "to be" as with regard to a he/she/it. Now, those who are only familiar with the ENGLISH language may not understand why this is significant, but you, dear P, being familiar with Spanish, which derives from Latin... might. What does the word "
este" in SPANISH mean? It is the SAME premise, dear one. It can apply to a he, she, OR it, yes? When one adds the "a", however, they change the entire meaning and premise. It's like saying these men said, "... we have not even heard that there is a blood... breath... seed." Versus, "... we have not even heard that there is blood... breath... seed." See?)
Continuing:
"So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”He asked this... because there were TWO baptisms at the time, yes? John tells us of them: "I baptize you WITH WATER... but one is coming who will baptize you WITH FIRE." Yes? And so, since these men responded:
“John’s baptism,” they replied.Well, John's was the ONLY baptism... right? No, it was not! Again, JOHN himself told them of another baptism! And so, Paul told them:
“John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in [Jesus].” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord [Jesus]. When Paul placed his hands on them, holy spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all." Acts 19:1-5 c. Folks FORGETTING that it was the NATIONS that worshipped triune gods... NOT Israel (JAH was ONE, NOT two OR three!). And this is probably the greatest error for those who profess to be a member of Christ's Body... because, by means of his spirit, which leads, guides, and teaches them... they should KNOW better. They should REMEMBER one of Israel's greatest errors: following after the gods of the nations!
These three things are really the ONLY reason for the entire error of the Trinity teaching! But it doesn't have to be that way!
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If the HS is Jesus, how does Jesus "send himself" as per those verses in John?
Exactly! He did NOT send himself OR holy spirit - the FATHER sent HIS holy spirit! First TO Christ... then, THROUGH Christ. Our Lord didn't HAVE to ask the Father... because he already HAD that spirit. And so, HE could have rebelled... as Adham did! But he DIDN'T: he asked... OUT OF HUMILITY! Why? Because (1) he never forgot that those who were his were GIVEN him... BY the Father; and (2) having given himself TO the Father, he said that HE... could DO... NOTHING of his OWN initiative." Not even send holy spirit.
John 5:9, 10 And so, rather than usurp from the FATHER... he ASKED... the FATHER... to send it (
John 14:16)... which that One did (
John 15:26)... THROUGH our Lord.
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If the HS is The Father's siprit, why does it implied that He/it acts apart from The Father?
Dear P... nothing of the sort is implied, not at ALL. Even Christ can't even act apart from the Father, dear one. Because for him to do so would negate the very UNION he claims WITH the Father. And that's what he SAID, that he could do NOTHING... except what he learned from the Father, received from the Father, and/or saw the Father doing. Yes? And so he said that WE... those IN UNION with him... could do nothing... APART from HIM, either. Yes?
John 15:5, 6Quote:
If the HS is an impersonal force how can it teach, love, feel pain, joy and, perhaps more importantly, advocate for Us ?
If you are speaking of holy spirit that is God's blood/breath/seed... then "it" can't... but JAH CAN... THROUGH it! Because of the BOND it makes. Like... twins. Or mother/child. How these can "feel", say, when the other hurts, feels pain, is sick... is happy, etc. They are bound... BY BLOOD.
As for "it" feeling... the Holy Spirit that is CHRIST... can and DOES teach (which is why he alone is to be called "Teacher"!!)... love (because he ALONE fulfilled the Law COMPLETELY... DUE to love!)... feel pain (as when WE do; he groaned and wept when Lazarus died, felt pity for those suffering from illnesses, felt the piercing of his flesh... joy when another was "found", like Zacchaeus!)...
And HE... IS the advocate for us, dear one - the ONLY One who can plead for us with the Father:
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father— [Jesus] Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1, 2And...
"Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Romans 8:34And...
"Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because [Jesus] lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." Hebrews 7:23-25
HE... Christ... IS the helper/advocate/comforter/paraclete... dear, dear P! HE is! HE... is the AMEN... the SO BE IT... the YES! HE LIVES! And... he SPEAKS!
But... sadly... people are so busy looking elsewhere... at religions and such... and others... at some third person... at a Pope, the men of a GB, some church leader... even at Peter. And so, because their eyes are on THESE...
they cannot SEE the One God Himself RAISED UP! NOT just raised up from the DEAD... but RAISED UP... ABOVE Israel and ALL of mankind... so that if their gaze in on HIM... they will NOT DIE:
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” John 3:14, 15Dear one... HOW did Moses lift that image up... and WHY? And what happened when folks looked at it... and what happened when folks looked AWAY?
Christ is lifted up in the SAME way, dear one. "JUST AS" Moses lifted up that image... the ONLY image EVER to be commissioned... and gazing upon it sanctioned... by JAH Himself. Because THAT image represented HIS true "image"... His SON... the HOLY ONE of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH, MischaJah.
KISS... the SON... lest God be angry... and you perish! NOT "Kiss [the third person that is the Holy Spirit]."
Psalm 2:12I truly, truly hope this helps, dear brother. Truly. I REALLY hope it helps. But I also know that it doesn't matter what I say; it only matters if you can hear the SPIRIT... and his Bride... when they say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"Which you can hear, if you have ears to do so. May you be given such ears... if you truly wish them.
Again, peace to you!
YSSFS of Christ,
Shel