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 Post subject: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Morning, One and All. May you have Peace.

Can someone point me to a post/thread where the subject of quoting the Bible is useful for unbelievers but unnecessary for believers. I remember reading one of those post/threads here but I can't find it. It pretty much discusses why we quote it for those who lack faith even though we do not believe it to be the Word of God. In the post/thread omeone called someone a hypocrite for quoting the Bible to prove their point when they didn't believe it was the Word of God.

Anyway, any assistance in finding that post/thread would be appreciated. Thank you.

--Armand


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:38 pm 
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Armand, is this the thread you're referring to?

http://xjwsforchrist.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=578


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Yes, LQ! This is the one. THANK YOU!!!!!!! Peace. --Armand


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:45 pm 
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This might come in handy too my brother.....


Peace to you all!

One thing that seems to stand in a lot of folks way is a lack of love... for the TRUTH. If Christ IS the Truth, then you not only need to love HIM... but TRUTH, as well. And not just some truth... or the truth "as we see it"... but truth AS IT TRULY is.

For that reason, I MUST share the following:

Quote:
The Bible has always been more than just about learning about Christ, though it most certainly points to Him.


The Bible does not point to Christ. The SCRIPTURES... some (but not all) of which are contained IN the Bible... point to Christ. The BIBLE contains MORE than Scripture... AND not all Scripture is contained in the Bible. Grasp the TRUTH of this.

Quote:
The bible is a collection of books and letters and poetry and while the one thing they have in common is the shared love of God, they are not all written to make EXPLICIT statements about God.


The BIBLE... is a COMPILATION by earthling MAN... which compilation is includes a collection of writings that do not necessarily have love of God in common. SOME of the writings do, but many actually tout a misleading and erroneous FEAR of God... NOT based in love at all... because it depicts Him as a vengeful, exacting despot who loves only those who love Him and does what He says. A great deal of it actually contains LIES about JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel, which is one reason why His SON was SENT: as that Son said, he came to bear witness TO THE TRUTH. About what? ABOUT God, his Father.

And so he said, "You see ME, you see THE FATHER." Thus, you do NOT see the angry, vengeful, exacting God that most of the Bible depicts in CHRIST, the SON. Why? Because the TRUTH is that the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, doesn't NEED us to obey Him - our OBEDIENCE doesn't benefit HIM - it is so as to SAVE OUR [eternal] LIVES.

And so, for example, rather than depicting the TRUTH... that Adham/Eve were WARNED not to eat of the TKOGB because they would die (by means of the ACTUAL of eating) if they DID... the lying pen of the copyists/scribes... and/or lying mouths of the false prophets... and or ignorant blindness of the teachers... depict it as the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies KILLING them for doing so. A LIE. And one of thousands!

Quote:
The bible was written FOR us but not TO Us.


The Bible was not written FOR or TO... ANYONE. Various books and letters OF the Bible were written... to specific people. "Moses, the Psalms, and the Prophets" were written to the people of fleshly Israel. The first contains the Law, which was for the people of FLESHLY Israel (including proselytites) ONLY. It was NOT for people of the nations NOR for SPIRITUAL Israel (the latter have the NEW Law, which is written on the HEARTS).

The gospel accounts were written for various ones: Matthew, Mark, and John... for the early Hebrew congregations... as was the letter to the Hebrews. Luke's account was written at the behest of and FOR... Theophilus. Paul's letters were written to the early GREEK and ROMAN congregations... and to specific individuals, including Timothy, Philemon, etc. John wrote to specific individuals, too, as well as to the various congregations.

We might not want to BELIEVE that... but that IS THE TRUTH.

Quote:
All that said, the bible is simply a tool that points the way to Our Lord


The Bible is not a tool that points to our dear Lord. There are fI've (5) things that point to Christ... and only 5... and the Bible is not one of them. They are, in order:

1. God Himself (He draws ones to Christ, even if they've never had, read, seen a Bible);

2. The [Old] Law (which is the Tutor to Christ), if one doesn't yet have the NEW Law written on their heart;

3. The Scriptures (Moses, which contains the [Old] Law), the Psalms, and the Prophets;

4. Holy spirit, in the form of the blood of God, which blood was given to and so courses through His Son, which Son grants it to whomever JAH gives to him; and/or

5. That Son, himself, who calls his sheep... by name.

Quote:
And, like any tool, if you focus too much on it ( the tool) you will miss the end, which is Our Lord.


If you FOCUS on it... indeed, if you focus on ANYTHING other than our dear Lord, the Copper Serpent raised up by JAH Himself... you CANNOT see (and will have a hard time hearing) him! The ONLY purpose the Bible serves... ZONLY purpose... is for UNBELIEVERS. Those who have not yet put their FULL and COMPLETE faith in Christ. Those who have FULL and COMPLETE faith in him do not NEED a Bible. They do not need SCRIPTURE. Why? Because:

1. They hear HIM; because
2. They have the (New) Law written on their hearts ; and so
3. They are granted HOLY SPIRIT, the ANOINTING of which is the means by which they are TAUGHT. God's spirit... blood... is IN them... which bloods SPEAKS. AND so they do not need anyone (other than Christ, their Leader and Teacher) TO teach them.

Quote:
Anyone can know Our Lord, with out without the bible.


This is TRUE. Many have and many do! "Many", however, does NOT mean multi-millions at a time ("Many are called; few are CHOSEN"). One cannot say they believe in Christ, believe he is the Truth and believe what he [is recorded to have] said... and then think EVERYONE or even almost everyone... is chosen. That is not the TRUTH. But that is not due to a flaw with God or Christ. It is OUR flaw. Because EVERYONE is called. Regardless of nation, tribe, tongue, or people. EVERYONE, however, does not LISTEN to the One CALLING... so as to heed his voice AND OBEY.

The issue that worries, even scares some people is that IF we are to rely only/mainly on what we hear from Our Lord and, the simple fact that humans are flawed, failed and notorious at being wrong, how does one deal with conflicting views?

It only worries those who don't know Christ. HIS sheep KNOW HIS VOICE. And HIS mouth ALWAYS speaks what is true, what is upright. And so there are no conflicting views. EVER. If there is a conflict, it is OURS. We are not looking at or listening to HIM but to another, including perhaps ourselves. What we WANT to hear or WANT a thing to be (or not be)... rather than what HE is saying/what is TRUE.

If we WANT to hear TRUTH, however, we absolutely will. And so, if we WANT to hear him... and what HE is saying... we WILL. Thing is... it ain't always "pretty." If all we want to hear are pretty, ooh you're such a good person, you did/look good, etc., well... you might hear that... but is it TRUE? And if not, where did it come from? WHO did it come from?

That's not to say all we should hear is bad. Sometimes, though, we can't even handle GOOD truth. So society, particularly religion, says no, you can't see yourself as a kind person. But what does CHRIST say? True, there's nothing to BRAG about when you do good (you did what you OUGHT to have done, good for nothing servant that you are)... but if you've been a good husband, good wife, good parent, good friend... then that is the TRUTH. It's what you DO with that truth... and how you treat others in the knowledge of it ("I've done a good thing. No need to brag to others or think more of myself than necessary but continue DOING such good thing to others").

But we often lie to ourselves so that we can never do ENOUGH. And then doing good becomes burdensome. Because it lacks fulfillment amd PERSONAL reward ("No matter HOW hard I try... HOW many hours in FS... it's NEVER enough! So why BOTHER?!").

Quote:
The bible can and should help us with that.


If the Bible could help us... we would not even be having this discussion. There would be no despair in the world, no war, etc. Because either everyone would be doing what Christ said (and finding peace that way)... or what the OT said... and finding it that way.

It is the conflicting views OF/IN the Bible... and various other "holy books"... which views have bern created and fomented by MAN... and particularly those who seat themselves in Moses' seat and/or claim to know and so teach, yet do NOT have God's blood, holy spirit, IN them... and so can't know God because they don't know His SON... so as to have HIS mind... that is the TRUE source of fear... of what "scares" people... and so leads to despair. That, in turn, leads to anger... and hatred.

I am truly sorry, dear, dear P... as I didn't mean to destroy YOUR perception/belief, but again, I had to share the TRUTH about these things. We live in a world where truth is not really important. It has its place but that place is very small, overshadowed by people not wanting to offend others and/or inconvenience themselves. And so truth is greatly skirted.

The Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH), Who IS the Truth, however, never put the need to not offend others or inconvenience himself... over truth. Living it, speaking it, being it... giving his life for it. He could very well have said,

"Look, folks, I'm not really God's son; I'm only a man, nothing more. You don't really need to to listen to me and I don't want to make the priests mad, so let's just forget all this faith stuff. Treat people like they treat you - why should YOU be wronged and not do something about it? Better yet, get them first, I say. And give up MY life!? Heck, Im with Peter - I don't know Hod, so don't come after ME; find somebody else to trade for Barrabas! I'm too young to die... and ya'll really ain't worth it to me, anyway!"

Lies, all. And so what of us if he had lied and HIS who and what he was... to spare himself?

We weren't promised a rose garden. We were TOLD that IF we wanted to follow HIM... we had to pick up our TORTURE poles/trees... and FOLLOW him. Whole LOT of inconveniencingredients ourselves... and offending others in that. WHOLE lot. Because a slave is not greater than his master.

This isn't pretty business, following Christ, dear ones. And so, if we dnot want to get "dirty" (i.e., have people thinking we're crazy, insane, foolish... stoopid), it's probably not the "career" for us.

Truth is important. Has to be. Because Christ is the Truth. You cannot pursue the Truth... and not think truth is critical. One does not always have to SHARE truth ("Do not throw pearls before swine")... but we certainly must when we can and should ("Speak truth with one another ").

I hope you (all) can grasp the truth of what I've shared here. I also hope that ALL who are wishing it are given ears to hear when the Spirit and his Bride says to them to:

"Come! Take Life's (his) water... holy spirit... which is the breath, blood, and seed of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... free!"

If you ARE wishing... then OBEY... and DO what that Spirit SAYS... as to those HEARING. Revelation 22:17 Quit worrying about "looking foolish" to others and just OBEY. Be faithful in what is LEAST... so faithful in MUCH can be ACCOUNTED to you! HEAR... get the SENSE of it... and OBEY.

THEN... "seasons of refreshment WILL come upon YOU."

I hope that helps, truly.

As always, peace to you all, and to your dear, dear households!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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Peace, your sister in Christ, Kim


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:00 am 
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Well doo-dah!!! Thank you too, Kimmie. That was excellent. These two (what LQ linked for me and what you wrote here in your post) will definitely work for me. And, OF COURSE, Shelby. THANK YOU THREE!!! Peace.

--Armando


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:45 pm 
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Quote:
Can someone point me to a post/thread where the subject of quoting the Bible is useful for unbelievers .
It pretty much discusses why we quote it for those who lack faith.....Armand

Which is Friggin Irritating to us Non Believers..
We Don`t Care!!..
We don`t want to be Quoted the Bible..
We don`t believe in the Bible,God,Jesus or have any Faith.....None!..
The last thing we want,is to be Preached To.....By Anybody.....That includes Crazy Atheists!..LOL!!..
The best thing you can do is be a good example of a decent human being..
That will make "Believers/People of Faith" much more acceptable,to some of the prejudiced Non Believers..

Rabid,Crazy,Zealot,Non Believers,are Beyond any Reasonable Conversation..
And..
Need Professional Psychiatric Medical Attention..

It`s In The Bible!..
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..................................Image...OUTLAW

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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:26 pm 
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That may be true as to NON-believers, dear Sher'f (peace to you, my dear friend!); however, it is definitely NOT true for UNbelievers, those who CLAIM to care, want to be quoted the Bible ("WHERE is it 'written'?!"), CLAIM to believe in the Bible, God, [Jesus] or have faith.. and WANT to be preached to. The two (non and un) are not the same.

I assumed dear Armand's (peace to you, luv!) comment "why we quote for those who LACK FAITH", wasn't as to people who do not believe at all (and admit it), but those who claim to have faith but demonstrate that to not be the case at all. For instance, Jehovah's Witnesses (although, they are only one of a very large group of people who claim to be "believers"). Tell THEM that Christ speaks and... well, let's just say I know *I* would get WAY less of a fuzzy welcome with that one from THEM, unbelievers that they are (because of their LACK of faith... in Christ speaking, due to their lack of faith that he DOES speak... because of their lack of faith that he is TRULY alive - do you SEE?)... than I get from you, a "non" believer.

See? (Smile)

Peace to you, dear, dear friend... and to your household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel, who will never again "push' God, Christ, the Bible, etc., "down ANYONE's throat" (a la JW Field Service)... or quote anything FROM the Bible to someone who had no interest whatsoever in what is written IN the Bible...


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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:50 pm 
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Quote:
That may be true as to NON-believers, dear Sher'f (peace to you, my dear friend!); however, it is definitely NOT true for UNbelievers, those who CLAIM to care, want to be quoted the Bible ("WHERE is it 'written'?!"), CLAIM to believe in the Bible, God, [Jesus] or have faith.. and WANT to be preached to. The two (non and un) are not the same.....Shelby

Ahhhhh..I get it..
People who want to be Christians,have no idea how to Follow Jesus..And..
Usually "Pass Judgement" on people that do..
They irritate me too.....I think I need to make a list.....LOL!!..
Quote:
Shel, who will never again "push' God, Christ, the Bible, etc., "down ANYONE's throat" (a la JW Field Service)... or quote anything FROM the Bible to someone who had no interest whatsoever in what is written IN the Bible...

You`ve never done that for as long as I`ve known you..
Your a good example of a Follower of Jesus and a Decent Human Being..

............................Image...OUTLAW

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 Post subject: Re: Point me to. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:00 pm 
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Well, Shelby beat me to it, lol. So I won't worry about my post - same content (including there being a difference between non-believer and unbeliever), just somewhat different wording.

Peace to you and to your households!

Your servant, and sister, and a slave of Christ,
tammy


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