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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Luke 9:35

"This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to Him."

Listen to Him.

Not to men; not to religion; not to doctrines or traditions of men, or even to books... but listen to Christ.

As Peter said when Christ asked him if the twelve wanted to leave Him also (after His teaching on eating his flesh and drinking his blood):

"Lord to whom will we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."



May you have ears to hear (if you wish them) as the Spirit (Christ) and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May those who hear SAY "Come!" And may all who seek and thirst "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life!"

Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:47 pm 
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tec wrote:
Luke 9:35

"This is my Son, my Chosen One. Listen to Him."

Listen to Him.

Not to men; not to religion; not to doctrines or traditions of men, or even to books... but listen to Christ.

As Peter said when Christ asked him if the twelve wanted to leave Him also (after His teaching on eating his flesh and drinking his blood):

"Lord to whom will we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."



May you have ears to hear (if you wish them) as the Spirit (Christ) and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May those who hear SAY "Come!" And may all who seek and thirst "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life!"

Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy



Amen Sista..... g:)
Love your sister in Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:17 pm 
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Of course, these words always come to me when someone presents something "new" as to Christ (or for many, "Jesus"), dear Tams ( peace to you, luv! ).

Or when I (accidentally) here, say, some televangelist. Why you i read this or that... or listen to him or her... when I have the "Horse" himself, whose lips ALWAYS speak what is upright and true? Why waste my time?

Of course, if they're saying what they're sharing is from HIM, of COURSE I'm going to CONSIDER what's being said... all the while asking him whether he DID say or reveal it... and then LISTEN to what HE says about that.

Just seems the easiest way to get from Point A (a lack of knowledge/truth)... to Point B: the truth. Which IS Christ.

Easy-peasy! LOLOL!

Peace to you, all!

A slave of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:30 pm 
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I was researching another topic this morning, and came across a verse in, of all places, Exodus. You'll love this.

Exodus 23:20,21:
I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him.

I never realized this was said to the Israelites way back then. Even WT agrees this "angel" was Christ.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Peace to you this morning My brother LQ,

Based on a few verses with reference to Exodus that you shared, my understanding ( and I could be wrong) is that this angel would be Michael ( Ark angel) and NOT our Lord Jaheshua.

This is because of what Daniel 10: 21 says,
"...Michael is the prince of you people."

Michael as ONE of the only TWO Arkangels, his position was to " guard the cover and the ark" or womb of Sarah and the seed that was inside. That seed being Israel. So he would be a guardian of the ark or Jahs people Israel and would definitely " Come in the name of JahVeh" as Tammy shared in another thread...

So not only are we to test the inspired expressions (hold them up the light that is Christ), we may also test the spirit uttering the expression. Because while a man may not (yet) know the name of Christ, but still hear and listen to His words.... a spirit that comes from Christ must know His name.



But because of what Hebrews 1:5-8 says, Jaheshua could NOT be referred to as an angel.
For it states,
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”fn? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?

And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”fn
But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

Glad to hear from you my brother,
Love your sister and fellow slave of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah, Kim


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:29 pm 
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Quote:
But because of what Hebrews 1:5-8 says, Jaheshua could NOT be referred to as an angel.
For it states,
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”fn? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?


You know, I had this thought after I posted what I posted. But it didn't occur to me this might be Michael. Interesting... I will consider that.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:32 pm 
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Not trying to be contentious or disagreeable (may you ALL have peace, and particularly you dear 'Mom and dear LQ!)... but I did not hear the same as to this matter as you did, dear 'Mom. In the spirit that prompted Priscilla and Aquila to expound some things more accurately to Apollos, although he, too, was filled with (holy) Spirit (but just not acquainted with some things, yet), I would like to pose the following (for those who might wish to consider the matter):

The Greek word for angel, which is "haggelos" (pronounced "angelos" - the "ha" makes the "an" sound)... means "messenger." The Hebrew word "malak" also means "messenger." Angels are definitely messengers, we would all agree. But... are all messengers "angels"... meaning, the spirit beings brought into existence for the very purpose of ministering to JAH, Christ... and the members of Christ's Body?

The Hebrew writings that we have today are ALL translations FROM Greek. So, whatever the understanding WAS in Greek... would be the resultant translation. Consider, though, what... or who... went before Israel. LEADING them through the wilderness. The "Shekinah"... LIGHT. Who... was that light?

Also, whose voice was... and is... Israel to OBEY?

I understand that the word "angel" may (seem) to be the key here; however, I have to ask: what not Christ JAH's... MESSENGER? Is he not JAH's messenger even NOW?

Michael, although the prince of the people of Israel, was never sent to LEAD them. ANYWHERE. His job was to protect them, yes. even fight for them. So that they could, as a nation, return (to Jerusalem). But even he said that he was a FELLOW slave of Christ, yes?

Is it possible that the Hebrew word "malak" is RENDERED as "angel"... because the GREEK-speaking secretaries who translated the Hebrew FROM the Greek... DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHO IT WAS that was JAH's messenger in LEADING Israel... and/or exactly Who it was that led Israel THROUGH the wilderness and back TO Jerusalem?

Why would it be anyone other than the very One who is leading the TRUE Israel... through the "wilderness"... back to (the NEW) Jerusalem... NOW?

Words are important, dears ones. As is understanding their origin and etymology.

The Greek word "angel" means "messenger," absolutely true. However, one can be a messenger... and such in the form of a servant in a man's house, yes? But, such one is not a SON in the man's house. On the other hand, a SON... can ALSO be a man's messenger, yes? Yet, not a SERVANT (in the House). Because he is a SON.

We might want to think a bit about the term "messenger,"... so as to be able to move BEYOND the term "angel."

On a personal note, were I Israel of old, I think I can say that, under the circumstances of the time, I would have followed Moses. Who, though, did Moses follow? An angel? Or... the Son? If you are uncertain as to the answer, please consider:

"By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible." Hebrews 11:24-27

I can't seem to wrap MY head around it: if Moses KNEW Christ... and we have every indication he did... who would MOSES have followed... EXCEPT Christ?

Is it possible, dear ones, that the Hebrew word we have TODAY, "malak", which means "messenger"... is actually a MISTRANSLITERATION... by the Greeks scribes... of a Hebrew word that MEANT... "spirit" and NOT "angel"? Not "ruach", an in spirit (breath, life, being)... but spirit that is ALSO a messenger? Which is an angel, yes, but in THIS sense, a spirit that is a messenger, yet is NOT a public servant... but a SON?

Some get hung up on words like "holy spirit" and "the Holy Spirit." Is it possible that some also get hung up on the word "messenger" so that they TRANSLATED it as "angel", meaning "public servant,"... versus a different... more accurate meaning, which is "messenger", meaning "SPIRIT", meaning... Christ?

Just something for you dear ones to consider.

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:03 am 
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In case anyone's confused, etc., perhaps remembering that "angels" are also "spirits"... as is Christ. And both angles... and Christ... are JAH's "messengers." And both the Greek word "haggelos" and the Hebrew word "malak" mean "angel"... AND/OR "messenger."

One type of spirit messenger, however, is a servant (i.e., angels), while another type... is a son. Including and most particularly... THE Son. The WORD... or messenger... of God.

I hope that helps!

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:34 am 
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AGuest wrote:
In case anyone's confused, etc., perhaps remembering that "angels" are also "spirits"... as is Christ. And both angles... and Christ... are JAH's "messengers." And both the Greek word "haggelos" and the Hebrew word "malak" mean "angel"... AND/OR "messenger."

One type of spirit messenger, however, is a servant (i.e., angels), while another type... is a son. Including and most particularly... THE Son. The WORD... or messenger... of God.

I hope that helps!

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


Awwww, YES! Thank you for this clarification on Angels/ messengers.

That BOTH Angels and Christ are Jahs messengers, Duh? g:)

One being a servant and one being a/the Son. Both being spirits.

Yes, helps greatly.
I apologize LQ my brother for not understanding completely. As I do realize so much has been mistranslated. And Moses would listened to the voice of Jaheshua the Son as you mentioned in Exodus.

Thank you so much for sharing these verses and Shelby thank you my sister for clarification,
Love and peace to you all, your sister in Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:01 am 
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Yes, as I read that, also I heard that angel can also mean messenger... so not necessarily an angel. I wasn't sure if i heard that right, and I meant to look that up yesterday, but did not get to it. But if anyone would like to see, as Shelby shared about the word, 'malak':

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 4397&t=KJV



mal'ak

Root Word (Etymology)
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy

messenger, representative
-messenger
-angel
-the theophanic angel

Note that the first choice under meanings is "messenger, representative"... but angel is the word chosen and assumed to be correct by the scribes and/or religious teachers/leaders, at some point in translation. Thereby confusing (and hiding) the identity of THIS messenger.


Kind of opens up some verses that we might otherwise assume MUST be an angel, and so dismiss them even though they sound as though they should be Christ. I'm not thinking of any verse in particular, just keeping this in mind, so that I don't close my mind off (or harden my heart) when I hear His voice telling me that something translated as angel... is really about Him.


Peace to you all,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:25 am 
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You know, those verses have bothered me for a while (just in not being sure who this 'angel' was... Christ or Michael or another angel). Because is it Paul who speaks of Christ being in the desert with the Israelites? Whoever did speak of that made me thinking this 'angel' was Christ... but how could that be when Christ is not an angel?


So great question, and discussion that followed!


OH, I was just reminded about the cloud/smoke... that should give us a heads up too!



Peace again!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Quote:
I apologize LQ my brother for not understanding completely. As I do realize so much has been mistranslated. And Moses would listened to the voice of Jaheshua the Son as you mentioned in Exodus.

No worries.

I am still hung up on qhe question of: is Christ the same as Michael? I'm not convinced either way. Since Michael is a archangel, "arch" meaning "chief", this seems to make him, not necessarily an angel himself, but the chief of the angels, or "chief messenger". That is certainly fitting for the Son of God, isn't it?

At the same time, depending on the translation used, Michael is described as "an archangel" and "one of the foremost princes". But he is also described as the "your prince" and "the prince of you people". Christ is also described as the "Prince of princes" is Isa 9:6.

So I am having a hard time being convinced either way that Christ is or is not Michael. It's not a major point for me... more of a curiosity, though one I would like resolved eventually.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Michael IS an angel. (An arkangel... one of the two angels on the ark, meant to protect the seed - Christ - and keep their eyes upon Christ. Only Michael did and does this)

Christ is NOT an angel. That verse that you referenced above states that pretty clearly, correct?

So if Michael is an angel... and Christ is NOT an angel... how can they be one and the same?

As well, if Michael is described as one of the princes, even one of the foremost princes... could that really be referencing Christ? Does he have an equal among angels, that he would be 'one of' the foremost princes?


Just some things to consider. Certainly to ask about, so that you can hear the truth of this for yourself from the Source (who should know who He is!) and so you can be SURE.

Peace to you Leaving,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:41 pm 
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Quote:
Michael IS an angel. (An arkangel... one of the two angels on the ark, meant to protect the seed - Christ - and keep their eyes upon Christ. Only Michael did and does this)

Not sure where this comes from...

Michael is never described in the Bible as an angel... only an archangel, and a prince. The Greek word for archangel means, primarily, "a ruler of angels"

Quote:
Christ is NOT an angel. That verse that you referenced above states that pretty clearly, correct?

So if Michael is an angel... and Christ is NOT an angel... how can they be one and the same?


I can agree with this if Michael is actually an angel, that is, if "archangel" is actually an angel. However, what if the "archangel" is not himself actually an angel? Does the chief of the angels have to be an angel? An example we can relate to: the President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief of the military. Yet, he himself is not a soldier.

I don't necessarily see evidence either way in the scriptures, though. Arguments for or against are both pretty well-defined. To be clear: I am leaning toward, "no, Michael is not Christ", but there's enough logic the other way to make me hesitate on being fully convinced. Not to debate... this is certainly not a matter related to the building up of faith... as I said, more of a curiosity.

Quote:
Certainly to ask about, so that you can hear the truth of this for yourself from the Source (who should know who He is!) and so you can be SURE.

Oh, I've asked. Never heard.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Try reading the following, dear LQ (peace to you, dear brother, and doing this from work so in a hurry, so please forgive any typos), paying attention to the emphasized items:

“In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel (who was called Belteshazzar). Its message was true and it concerned a great war.[a] The understanding of the message came to him in a vision. At that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over. On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

"I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. Then I heard him speaking, and as I listened to him, I fell into a deep sleep, my face to the ground. A hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. He said, “Daniel, you who are highly esteemed, consider carefully the words I am about to speak to you, and stand up, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he said this to me, I stood up trembling.

Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

"While he was saying this to me, I bowed with my face toward the ground and was speechless. Then one who looked like a man touched my lips, and I opened my mouth and began to speak. I said to the one standing before me, “I am overcome with anguish because of the vision, my lord, and I feel very weak. How can I, your servant, talk with you, my lord? My strength is gone and I can hardly breathe.”
Daniel 10:4-17

Okay, now, look at verse 5 again, then at Revelation 1:12-18:

"I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.


Okay, now, what does Michael’s voice sound like? Let me share that with you: a trumpet. He is an arkangel (one of the angels of the Ark, one of the cherubs on the cover, with its face toward the cover)… and so he has an ANGEL'S voice, even an ARKANGEL'S voice. Christ’s voice, on the other hand is like "a multitude", or "rushing waters," and speaks in LOW tones. What trumpet is LOW?

When Christ returns, there IS the sound of a trumpet, but it is not HIS voice; it is Michael’s voice ANNOUNCING him. As is done when ANY kings “arrives.”

In John's vision, he FIRST heard Michael speak. Revelation 1:10

When he turned around to try and see who was speaking to him, however, he did NOT see the one who initially spoke, but ANOTHER, someone with the voice of "rushing waters." We can know he saw someone different than the one he first heard, not just by this (the two distinctly different voices), BUT, he ALSO wrote, AFTER concluding sharing the letters to the seven congregations, how the other visions began:

"After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1

Which is in line with what John SAID occurred:

"The revelation from JaheShua, the Anointed/Chosen One, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, Revelation 1:1

Consider THIS, then, what Michael himself said, when John fell down to worship HIM:

“Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of JaheShua. Worship God!" Revelation 19:10

Notice, he did not say he was a fellow servant of himself, but of JaheShua.

There is more, but I am thinking, given your comments over the past, that this is sufficient for you to “see” that Michael and Christ are NOT the same one, but that one is the servant of the other. BOTH are princes, yes, even "lords" (i.e., someone entrusted with a “principality”… which is land or territory belonging to a KING, entrusted to others – Lords, Earls, Dukes, Barons, Marquises, etc.). Michael has the principality of Israel; another, our Adversary, had the principality of Persia (in which Eden was located during Adham’s time, and so why the Adversary was THERE). Christ, however, as the SON… is the PRINCE of princes, LORD of lords (i.e., the one over ALL principalities belonging to the KING, his Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Arrmies).

I hope this helps.

As always, peace to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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