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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:34 am 
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And let us not forget that the devil is called the archaic serpent (Revelation 20:2) or, said another way, serpent of the ark. There were two angels atop the ark of the covenant--Michael and the cherub now known as Satan. Michael remained faithful and loyal to Christ, the Adversary did not remain faithful. (Ezekial 28)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:52 am 
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Not sure where this comes from...

Michael is never described in the Bible as an angel... only an archangel, and a prince. The Greek word for archangel means, primarily, "a ruler of angels"


The Greek word "archangel" or "archeangel" is a mistransliteration, dear LQ (peace to you!). "Someone", some scribe, at some point THOUGHT that Matthew, John, et al., was speaking of something along the lines of a "chiliarch" (i.e., someone over, say, a thousand troops). This is an error. What the writers were speaking of is an ARK angel. Specifically, a CHERUB... of the Ark. Of which there were two: the one called "Mischa'El" (or "Michael")... whose name means "Chosen of God" (and NOT "who is like God" fercrissakes... as NO ONE is like God EXCEPT Christ, who Michael is NOT)... and the other, "Beli'Jah'El" (or "Belial"), which means "Without JAH as (his) God"... which is the name of the Adversary ("Satan" and "Devil" are descriptions and designations).

The same transliteration occurs with the phrase "In the beginning." The TRUE rendering of that phrase is "In the ARK"... meaning, in the womb of the Woman, "Sarah", the Jerusalem "Above"... the spirit realm... which is the "mother" of Christ and his brothers. And... the FREE "wife" of JAH. She equates to Sarah, the wife of Abraham (Jah), the mother of Isaac (Christ) and Israel (his children/brothers - brothers because they are also sons of God, children because Christ "begets" them... with holy spirit...which is why he is called "eternal father" - he is not THE Father, but "father" in the sense that he gives them eternal life, an authority given HIM by JAH). She (Sarah, the Woman) is represented by the NEW Covenant.

In contrast, her counterpart, the "slave" wife of Abraham (Jah), is the earth... or physical realm... "Hagar"... whose son is Ishmael (Adham) and whose children "persecute Isaac." As the young man Ishmael did his brother Isaac. Ishmael and Isaac were half-brothers: same father, different mothers. As is Christ and Adham: same father, different mothers.

I digress.

Because the scribes don't know Christ (and, by default, don't know JAH), they didn't... and still don't... understand the significance of Arks. Whether it be Noah's ark, the ark which hid and protected Moses, the Ark of the (Old) Covenant or, most importantly, the Ark of the NEW Covenant. They don't understand the significance of the COVER/DOOR/MERCY (Seat)... or, as you know him, Christ, the Son of God... nor the "cherubs that were covering" (the Ark of the Old Covenant): Michael and Belial. Some understand the purpose and significance of Christ, but do not grasp the purpose (to guard and keep their faces toward the Cover) and significance (two HIGHEST cherubs) of the other two.

Because they don't understand... and so misinterpret and then mistransliterate... when it comes TO the word "ark". Or "arke". Or "arch." Or "arche." Michael IS a prince and a foremost (or, for some, chief) angel. But that is not what was meant by the term "arkangel." Or "archangel." The term "arkangel"... means the same as "arkaic angel" - angel... of the Ark. Not "ancient" or "old" angel. It DOES mean "original" or "chief" in some manner, if one wants to go the extent of saying Michael and Belial were the FIRST angels created. But all of these things add up NOT simply to them being chiliarchs, but much, much more.

And to understand THIS truth, if not yet able to hear Christ himself share it (or, as for me, SEE it), one must research the word "arkangel." In some, few, instances, some modern dictionaries/cyclopediae will help you. In researching older manuscripts, and older sources of etymology, one can find it. As I've shared, etymology is a love of mine... and dear hubby's... so we researched (and shared) this truth many, many years ago. So long ago that I no longer know where. specifically, to direct you to look at this current time. Cyclopediae like McClintock and Strong might help.

But don't be fooled by modern etymology/dictionary descriptions. The "false pen" of the scribes has changed many a thing over time. Always has, always will. As our dear Lord once told me, though:

"ALL I tell you IS written. But all that is written is not what I will tell you."

What he meant is that everything HE says IS written... somewhere... albeit not necessarily in the Bible. And all that is written, including in the Bible, is not what he would tell us (because it is not all TRUE). He has proven that to me over and over again, just recently, with his revelation about his death at creation. He told me... and then gave me one verse that supported what he told me. True, it was only one verse, but... it IS written.

Quote:
I can agree with this if Michael is actually an angel, that is, if "archangel" is actually an angel. However, what if the "archangel" is not himself actually an angel? Does the chief of the angels have to be an angel? An example we can relate to: the President of the United States is the Commander-in-Chief of the military. Yet, he himself is not a soldier.


Again, the word "angel" means "messenger." And Michael certainly was and is a messenger. He is the one who delivered the revelation to John. That makes him a messenger. Also, again, however, the term "arkangel" doesn't mean "chief angel," but "ARKangel"... or "CHERUB of the Ark." A "cherub" is a RANK among spirit beings. The highest, after Christ. So, in that sense, he IS a "chief angel" or "chief CHERUB." All spirit beings are seraphs: flying, flesh-eating serpents (dragons, from "drakon"). NOT snakes. Those are beasts of THIS world. These are MEN, albeit not human OR solely male... but "men" in the sense that they stand on TWO legs (hence, "able-bodied"), and have the same physical features (eyes, noses, mouths, hands, feet, etc.), as EARTHLING man. They are merely of a different SUBSTANCE, but the same FORM.

I don't necessarily see evidence either way in the scriptures, though. Arguments for or against are both pretty well-defined. To be clear: I am leaning toward, "no, Michael is not Christ", but there's enough logic the other way to make me hesitate on being fully convinced. Not to debate... this is certainly not a matter related to the building up of faith... as I said, more of a curiosity.

The best argument for one like you would be:

1. Christ himself saying (to Daniel) that he (Christ) had no one BUT Michael to come and help him when the Prince of Persia (Belial, the OTHER cherub of the ARK, who was placed in the garden with Adham/Eve) was standing in opposition to him - the reason there was no one ELSE is because Michael, Belial's TWIN... is the only one (of the lesser (than God/Christ) spirit beings) who COULD oppose Beiial. The only spirit who had the EQUAL STRENGTH to do so. Hence, it was Michael who led the battle AGAINST Belial... and WON... so that the latter was ousted from the innermost parts of the spirit realm;

2. Daniel, in the same account, calling the one speaking to him, which one was the SAME One seen and similarly described by John (golden waistband, flaming eyes, face/head/hair like lightening/white, bronze feet, etc.)... his "Lord." He not only would not have called Michael that, but MICHAEL wouldn't have let him do so. As he did not let JOHN worship him, but spoke the TRUTH, that he was John's FELLOW slave/servant OF Christ);

3. Michael IS an angel, whether "arkangel" or just plain angel... and Christ is NOT an angel. Angels, while messengers, are CREATED. Christ was not created; he was BORN. Which is why he IS a son... THE Son... and why angels are NOT sons (they are servants OF the son(s) of God).

A lot to take in and consider, I know. But perhaps you can consider it like "manna" and use it to sustain you for awhile while you "digest" it. Rather than gathering more, try to have your... mmmmmmm... curiosity... sustained... just a bit while you either ask as to the truth of these things and/or try to research them yourself. If you have a mind and heart to do so, of course.

But I hope it helps, truly.

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:04 am 
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Thank you all for taking the time to explain things a little further. Most of it I already came to the same conclusion about myself. But, some of it is new to me, so yes, "manna" to digest.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Remember too what is written in Jude 1:9,

Quote:
"But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" "



Do you think that Christ would dispute, argue, or even condemn the devil? When the devil appeared to Christ, they conversed for a little, and Christ just told him to be gone. Michael, on the other hand, "disputed" with the devil about Moses' body. And what did Michael say? The "Lord" rebuke you. Michael is NOT the Lord.

May you have peace.

--Armand


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:22 pm 
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Most of it I already came to the same conclusion about myself.


Umm-hmmm, yeah... SURE you did, dear brother (peace to you, luv!). OR... LOLOLOLOL!

No offense intended. Just being a bit more "me" tonight. A bit of advice? Try giving that "glory" to the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit... rather than, say, crediting yourself for your "understanding." Just try it. I mean, it might seem a big awkward at first, even... how shall I say... corny? No, a better word: childlike. Try it, though... then come back and tell us about all the OTHER "conclusions" given you... sorry, I mean, you yourself "draw" (smile).

Peace to you, dear LQ.

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Ha! You caught me. Yes, seems awkward. Not used to it since I don't "hear" as you do.

But, here goes: Most of it, I have already become convinced of by what was given me by our Father and our Lord through his Spirit!

:D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:28 pm 
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There ya go, Leaving!


Peace to you!
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:51 pm 
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May all praise , glory and honor go to Jah and His Son Jaheshua MischaJah, the ones who share these wonderful truths and sacred secrets with us!

Wonderful to hear from you my brother. And everyone else, thank you!
Your sister and fellow servant of Christ, Kim :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:53 pm 
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I have already become convinced of by what was given me by our Father and our Lord through his Spirit!

I believe I heard the heavenly host SHOUT in joy! Wait... maybe that was just me...

Anyway, GOOD SHOW, dear, dear brother LQ! WAY to step out on FAITH, dear one! My heart REJOICED in your profession! May the undeserved kindness and mercy of OUR God and Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son, OUR dear Lord, Master, Savior, and King... the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... be upon you... to time INDEFINITE.

And so it shall, dear, dear one... because, although you may not hear "as well" as 9you think) I do... there is no doubt in MY mind that you DO hear. Because, once again, you have shown yourself to be a DOER... as well! Small things... baby steps... sure. But steps are steps. Small OR large.

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel... doing a little "happy" dance (and no, Pharrell is not playing in the background. Sometimes a song can just get worn OUT, y'know? LOLOL!)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:15 am 
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1. Christ himself saying (to Daniel) that he (Christ) had no one BUT Michael to come and help him when the Prince of Persia (Belial, the OTHER cherub of the ARK, who was placed in the garden with Adham/Eve) was standing in opposition to him - the reason there was no one ELSE is because Michael, Belial's TWIN... is the only one (of the lesser (than God/Christ) spirit beings) who COULD oppose Beiial. The only spirit who had the EQUAL STRENGTH to do so. Hence, it was Michael who led the battle AGAINST Belial... and WON... so that the latter was ousted from the innermost parts of the spirit realm;


I'm having a discussion about this elsewhere... the issue brought up is: If the "man in fine linen" is Christ, why would he need Michael or anyone else to come help him? Couldn't Christ, the one through whom all things were created, have easily defeated this prince of Persia?

It's a legitimate question. The Prince of Persia was not fighting Michael initially. Michael came to help. Above, it was stated that "it was Michael who led the battle". Yet, Daniel 10:13 clearly says the prince of Persia stood in opposition to the "man in fine linen" for 21 days before Michael came to help. That makes it seem like this "man" was unable to defeat the prince of Persia on his own.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Aaahhh . . . yes . . . while reading this your post, I received from our Lord all of the following thoughts rapidly in my brain. Praise be to Jah! One must ask one’s self when did this event take place? What time period? Was it not BEFORE our Lord was glorified? Was it not BEFORE he was granted all authority in heaven and on earth? While having great authority and power, had he been granted ALL AUTHORITY AND POWER? While powerful indeed, there were others who were powerful too, yes? And like our Father who travels with his entourage, myriads upon myriads of angels, Christ too has his angels and when he returns they will come with him, yes? When Jah descended upon Mt. Sinai, the Bible account describes Jah as coming with his chariots of fire, his angels. Likewise, when the Christ returns too, yes?

Matthew 25:31, . . . and all his angels with him. . . .

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
and to grant relief to you who are oppressed, and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels

Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them: "Behold, the Lord is coming with myriads of His holy ones

So while BOTH Jah and His Anointed One have their angels and travel with their angels, do they “NEED” their angels? Why do YOU think they travel with their angels? Because they need them?

Do Jah and His Christ “need” us? And yet, they allow us to perform acts for them, yes? Why? For them? Or FOR us? Perhaps what is written in those words depends on the translator.

Daniel 10:

12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

While the NWT reads:

12 He then said to me: “Do not be afraid, O Daniel. Your words have been heard from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and to humbling yourself before your God, and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the royal realm of Persia stood in opposition to me for 21 days. But then Miʹcha•el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I remained there beside the kings of Persia.

Just some thoughts I was given and directed to share. . . .

May you have Peace!

--Armand


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Thanks for responding, Armand. I fail to grasp this, though. Daniel was in mourning for three full weeks according to Daniel 10:2, then what the "man in fine linen" says in verse 13 sounds like an excuse as to why he couldn't come sooner. Surely this incident couldn't have been just to show honor to Michael. Could it? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Are you saying the 21 days was simply because our Lord didn't have the authority to deal with the prince of Persia at that time?

There's so much in that one little verse that we're not privy to. I'm fascinated by it.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:53 am 
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Are you saying the 21 days was simply because our Lord didn't have the authority to deal with the prince of Persia at that time?


I cannot respond for dear Armand, dear LQ (peace to you, both!) but that is exactly the situation. In the spirit realm, things aren't just "done" - they are done by the Father's authority. We have several examples, but the one I am given to share with you is recorded by Jude:

"But when Mischa'El, the archangel, had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: “May JaHVeH rebuke you.” - Jude 9

As dear Armand pointed out, our dear Lord had not yet been given ALL authority, in the spirit realm AND in the physical realm. So, he did not have the authority to act on his own... and the Father did not permit him to do so. Why? Because... and I had to smile when my Lord shared this... it was not time for the battle with the Adversary to take place. Had our dear Lord acted and, say, just took the Adversary (Prince of Persia) out, well, as I have shared, a LOT of what "is" is based on a kind of mathematical algorithmic situation.

A couple of things to note:

1. The period that the Prince of Persia stood in the our dear Lord's path is the same period during which Daniel mourned: 3 weeks... or 21 days.

2. Once Michael came to assist (and he DID have authority to counter with the Adversary, which is why HE fought the battle mentioned in Revelation 12, NOT our dear Lord), our Lord did not leave but remained there with the KINGS of Persia (which is NOT the same thing as the "Prince" - the "prince" is an angel, spirit being, given a certain "principality" to guard. Hence, Eden was in the region we now call "Persia" (the Mesopotamian valley - "Mesopotamia... is the name for the area of the Tigris–Euphrates river system" https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia; see Genesis 2:13, 14). A "king" is someone of royal blood/background OR someone "anointed/chosen" by God to govern, vs. protect/guard).

3. Michael battling the Adversary would have a totally different outcome than our dear Lord doing so... because of the POWER "in" our dear Lord. Michael is an equal foe. Hence, while he could cast the Adversary OUT of the spirit realm, he could not DESTROY him. Our dear Lord, on the other hand, has WITHIN him the POWER to utterly destroy... EVERYTHING... including the Adversary. That same power is what was used to CREATE... everything. That power... was RESTRICTED... until our dear Lord learned... from the FATHER... HOW and WHEN... to use it. Hence, his "glory" was very limited, as an initial spirit being. He was sent here, learned how... and when... to use it (you'll recall his errors as a child)... and once he PROVED that he could CONTROL it (when he allowed himself to be put to death, yet did not retaliate, call upon HIS angels to act, etc.), was given it IN FULL ("ALL authority has been given me, in [heaven] AND [on earth].").

We have NO idea as to the strength of that power. It is the reason our dear Lord has not yet [been permitted to] return: just as his birth brought FORTH all of creation, his RETURN... COULD... destroy it all. Everything has to be PERFECT, then. The timing, the "day and hour." Timed so that he "re-entry" does not result in utter destruction of all that the Father created. Only the Father knows, however, when that day and hour... that "EQUATION"... is calibrated absolutely and completely perfectly. Just as He knew when He brought our dear Lord forth.

Our Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH), is not a coward, dear brother. Indeed, he is the STRONGEST of us all, save JAH Himself. His strength, however, must be controlled at all times and under all circumstances. Again, recall his acts as a young child of flesh. Imagine, then, if he were to unleash it without proper control.

THAT is why so much time has passed, "why" so many things have and have not occurred... yet. And he is now teaching US to control OUR power. What we bind on earth, is bound in the spirit realm. Are we able to wield such power as will be bestowed upon us as sons of God? Or... will we "judge" hastily? Perhaps do as Peter did with Ananias and his wife, Sapphira? Will we be MERCIFUL with our power? Or will we show ourselves "sons of the Devil" and let hate drive us to "kill" everyone we dislike or causes us [some measure of] harm?

We are being "subdued" by Christ for a reason, luv. And, yes, it takes a LONG time. Because, as you can see, MOST of mankind would wipe out their enemies... with just a single THOUGHT, let alone a single blow.

I hope that helps, truly.

As always, the greatest of love and peace to you dear brothers, BOTH!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:15 pm 
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I can accept the authority issue. I'm having trouble with your #3, though. After all, there must have been a LOT of control to CREATE the universe in the first place down to the most delicate things we can see (or beyond... seen only under a microscope.) Think of a snowflake... the control necessary to create that structure would seem immense to me. Surely, he would have had enough control to defeat the prince of Persia without "accidentally" destroying him.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:49 pm 
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I'm having trouble with your #3, though. After all, there must have been a LOT of control to CREATE the universe in the first place down to the most delicate things we can see (or beyond... seen only under a microscope.) Think of a snowflake... the control necessary to create that structure would seem immense to me. Surely, he would have had enough control to defeat the prince of Persia without "accidentally" destroying him.


Smile (and peace to you, dear, dear LQ!). Understood; however, our dear Lord didn't create the universe - the FATHER did. So, the "control" was the Father's (which our dear Lord knew and conceded to) and the Father USED our dear Lord TO create the universe.

You might recall where I shared the time I was taken to the "void"... heard the "equation" (translated "Let Light come to be")... saw that Light "come forth" (from somewhere outside of our universe)... and that "process" actually bringing WITH it... "creating"... the "physical" (M=EC2)? He didn't do it - he is what JAH used TO do it. The "Light" (or energy that is "E" in Einstein's relativity theory).

Thus:

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life..." John 1:3, 4

"... in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16

His energy would have annihilated the Adversary, had he been allowed (chosen) to use it. His training had not yet been completed, though - he had to come in the FLESH to learn PERFECT control of it, which he did learn. Nor was it time for the Adversary's destruction. Why? Because the energy it would have taken to do THAT... would have destroyed MUCH more than the Adversary. Indeed, even the fire than comes down from JAH to destroy Gog and Magog doesn't destroy the Adversary, right?

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:7-10

Were that energy to have been released way back when... there would be nothing to BE saved. What WILL be saved, however, will be protected when the fire comes down... by being "INSIDE" the "Great City," the NEW "Jerusalem." That is the only place anyone will be safe.

The Adversary, however, being made of what HE is made of, requires much more power, energy, than Gog (people) and Magog (lower spirit beings). His destruction, then, will have to take a long time ("day and night for ever and every"... which doesn't mean forever, but for a VERY long time - "eons and eons"). Because if HE is destroyed in one fell swoop, pretty much everything ELSE would be, too, EXCEPT for JAH and Christ. Even his twin, Mischa'El, would be destroyed... because the same [amount] of energy that can destroy the Adversary RAPIDLY... can destroy his twin.

I hope that helps, truly!

As always, peace to you and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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