Dear, dear P... peace to you and C'MON, brother! Stop looking for LOOPHOLES! You are truly showing yourself to be "Israel"... and very much like the disciples of our Lord's day in the flesh - LOLOLOL! Let's look at what you posted/ask:
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So the RCC were right all along?
About partaking of Christ's flesh and blood? Yes, luv! MOST "christian" religions observe that "ritual", dear one. Few understand what it TRULY means, however. Even so, ALL "christian" religions have SOME truth in them. Else... again... the children of (the) Light would not be ATTRACTED to them. They would not be ABLE to mislead (if possible) even us! That they have SOME truth, however, does not negate where they go WRONG! They do THAT... by setting up leaders, teachers, "fathers" in themselves... then misleading people to follow THEM... rather than follow Christ and Christ ALONE. But they have to have SOME truth in order to DO that.
Now, if you want to take this ONE thing as a reason to follow the RCC, by all means DO so. But then, those who now understand that there is not TRINITY should take THAT to follow the WTBTS. And those who believe in the resurrection to follow Lutherans. And those who believe in baptism to follow baptists. Etc., etc. Because they ALL have SOME truth. Only CHRIST, however, has ALL truth... and NONE of ALLOW you to follow ONLY him. They SAY you are doing that, by following THEM... but that really isn't the TRUTH. Because if you are following HIM... you do not need ANYONE (else)... to be TEACHING you.
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Note it doesn't say believe and eat of My Flesh and Drink of My Blood.
Smile. No, it doesn't. What DOES it say, though?
"... that whoever believes in Him shall not perish..."How can one say they BELIEVE in someone... whose WORDS they don't LISTEN to??????? Do you not remember our dear Lord's words:
"WHY do you call me 'LORD, LORD'... but DO NOT DO the THINGS I SAY?"and...
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but [b]only the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven."[/b]What was/is that WILL?
"This is my SON, the beloved. LISTEN to HIM."But wait, didn't such ones BELIEVE in him? Didn't they do "works" to show that? Perhaps. Yet:
"Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"Why would he say that, that HE never knew THEM? BECAUSE, luv, he SAID:
"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." John 15:4-7and so...
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me." John 6:56, 57Nowhere does it mention eating of the flesh and drinking of the blood.
In THAT verse, no. But he said THAT... BEFORE he said the other. The disciples were to KEEP UP with him, though (which many didn't/couldn't). And those who DID... received MORE. More truth, more understanding. For example, when he TOLD them that they would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood, many were STUMBLED... and so went OFF... BEFORE he could explain FURTHER just what he MEANT (not his literal flesh, but that he would give them representations). Because they didn't follow THROUGH, they lost OUT. Because they didn't get the FULL story. You, by focusing on what he said FIRST... rather than hanging on a sec, continuing with him, FOLLOWING him to what he said NEXT... then NEXT... are putting yourself... and your household... in harm of losing out, too, luv.
We're supposed to FOLLOW the Lamb... WHEREVER he goes! Stopping at what he said FIRST... like those who stumbled when he told them they had to eat his flesh and drink his blood... is NOT following him... WHEREVER he goes! It's STUMBLING... and STOPPING!
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Now, I am in agreement that we should partake of the "body and blood of Christ", I think that part is quite clear.
What I am disagreement with is that there is no eternal life WITHOUT partaking.
I think you misunderstand: NO ONE has said that, en totale. There is no eternal life for those of his BODY... WITHOUT partaking. They will not be part of HIM. There IS life, however, for those who are "sheep", those who do "good" to Christ, by means of doing good to those of his BODY. The thing is, he is SPEAKING to those OF his Body... NOT those who are NOT of it. Each one must decide WHICH they are: sheep of his Body and so brothers and co-rulers with him... or SUBJECTS of that rule.
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For our salvation and eternal life to be based on whether or not we partake ( and according to some HOW and with what), seems to me the be in contradiction of the sacrifice that Our Lord gave for Us.
Perhaps you need to revisit... and discern... who you mean by "we" and "US," dear one. If you are meaning members of his BODY... then you are not accurately understanding who "we" and "us" might be.
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It seems to imply that by doing THIS we are saved and have eternal life and I simply don't think that is the case.
It is by FAITH that we are saved, luv. But we cannot declare that we HAVE faith...
IF WE DO NOT DO WHAT THE ONE IN WHOM WE CLAIM WE
HAVE SUCH
SAYS.
It
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is OUR BELIEF in Christ as Son of God, saviour and redeemer, that saves Us, that anoints us with the Holy Spirit.
That belief is not to be a "dead" one, though, luv. As James said, "Faith without works is DEAD." Those works are DOING what Christ SAID to do. We are, then, to be NOT just HEARERS... but DOERS... of what the Word SAYS. Hence, as James also said:
"Show me your faith APART from works... and I'll show you MY faith... BY my works."Quote:
It is not due to anything we DO, but what was DONE for Us by Our Lord.
Not so, luv. We DEMONSTRATE our faith IN what he DID... BY what WE... DO. The demons BELIEVE. They KNOW he is the Son of God. They KNOW he gave his life for us. So what, they know and believe? Not gonna get them eternal LIFE.
We can't use that text in John 6 as absolute proof because we have more in John that states that is not the case, that BELIEF is what is required.
You misunderstand. And you do so... because you want to "contend"... rather than do "just do." Because doing "just so" will undermine what you currently believe (is true). But that's what Christ is ABOUT, dear one: overturning STRONGLY entrenched things (beliefs). He did it for those Israelites who listened to Moses, those who listened to the Prophets, many first century Jews, many since... and now, for US. We, ALL of us, had some things... erroneous things... STRONGLY entrenched in us, in our "belief systems"... put there by others. Others who do NOT know him... or what he meant, means... or wants.
When one turns to HIM, though, and STOPS leaning upon their OWN understanding... THEN one can be led... BY the Light that HE is... into ALL truth. One can choose, however, to stay in darkness. Israel often stayed there... by there constant contending. We can do so, as well.
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So, what is John 6 about then?
In a nutshell: the flesh if of NO use at all, and all the attention we pay TO it is for nought. On the other hand, the SPIRIT is what gives life... and we GET life... FOR our spirits... by eating SPIRITUAL food and drinking SPIRITUAL drink. Just as our flesh gets (temporary) life by eating physical food and drinking physical drink. The food that sustains our SPIRITS, however... the TRUE food and TRUE drink... is HIS flesh and HIS blood. If we want to LIVE, then, we must EAT his flesh and DRINK his blood. As he said, "Come to ME... and DRINK!" But he didn't mean that symbolically - he meant that LITERALLY - that we MUST eat and drink from HIM. Since we could not do so FROM his literal flesh and blood (because these were going WITH him!)... he gave us REPRESENTATIONS to use. When we PARTAKE of them, therefore, we DECLARE our FAITH... IN HIS RESURRECTION. That he DID die... yet LIVES... and in the same way WE, although we might die... can and will LIVE. So, EACH time we partake, we are declaring his DEATH... and our FAITH in his resurrection FROM that... UNTIL he returns... to do the same for US.
Now, we can SAY we believe he died and was resurrected, yes. OR... we can DEMONSTRATE that we believe it... EXERCISE our faith... by DOING what HE said would DEMONSTRATE that faith. It really is that simple, luv. To OBEY... is BETTER... than to sacrifice.
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IMO, here is the crucial part:
He is the bread of Life, His words, His spirit, His body, all that would be given up FOR US to SAVE US.
To "eat and drink of Him' is to take in all that He is, His words, His teachings and His Spirit.
Yes! But what you have apparently not quite discerned YET... is that he IS the TREE... of LIFE. From which Adham, Eve, spirit beings, and ALL mankind MUST eat... in order to live... FOREVER. NOT die.
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In the Gospels Christ says to do this ( partake of the last supper) not for eternal life BUT in remembrance of Him and ALL that He is, of His sacrifice and pain and death for Us. Anything we do, pales in comparison, anything we "eat" means nothing without what HE DID.
Okay, then! If he said to DO it... then why look for reasons NOT to do so? Why not just DO it... in FAITH? Because he SAID to... THEN worry about the "why" (which he WILL reveal)????
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I partake out of Love for Him and His sacrifice, every time I "break bread" I remember Him, NOT because I want eternal life or because I will have eternal life if I do "this and that", BUT because I love Him and what He did for Us so that we don't "have to do" anything other than Believe.
This is MY view and how I understand it.
YES! YES!!!! And in THIS, YOUR view here, is the CORRECT one: we should do it... BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. Hence, many who DO it, are doing it for the WRONG reason, NOT our of LOVE... OR faith... because they "want" something FROM him! And these are the ones of whom he will say "I never knew YOU!". Because their union is not pure, not based on LOVE... and obedience OUT of love... but out of selfish desire.
HOWEVER, to claim to KNOW him... and NOT do it... is a LACK of love... and a lack of faith. And what will those who LACK faith receive?
I hope this helps, dear, dear brother, truly! You... and anyone else who needs it!
As always, peace to you... and to your dear, dear household!
YSSF of Christ,
Shel