Quote:
As some still believe that JW are still Gods organization, but have become corrupted, it is not an easy decision,
Some believe other religions (i.e., LDS, SDA, RCC, Catholicism, Orthodox, Judaism, etc.) are God's organization/people, too, dear Cookie (mornin' and peace to you... and this thread is fine, dear one, as it's your thread - you started it so you are more than welcome to discuss what you wish to on it).
Quote:
as I look at Rev 2 where Christ inspected the 7 congregations, and found only one that was acceptable
This is true; however, it begs the question: which of these seven represents the WTBTS? And if one does, who do the others represent? Is one, say, the WTBTS... another, LDS... another, say, Fundamentalism? Pentecostal? Greek Orthodox? Catholic? Orthodox Catholic? Roman Catholic? There are only seven... yet, there are way more than that represented in "christendom" (and make no mistake, the WTBTS is a part of "christendom"). Or do you think that perhaps the WTBTS represents them all?
Quote:
however he never said to any in the other congregations to leave.
He didn't say that specifically, no, dear one, but surely if one WERE in such a "congregation," they WOULD leave... if things were not corrected, yes? Otherwise, they SHARE in the "sins" OF that "congregation," yes? But one must consider that (1) the congregations aren't literal, but spiritual, because (2) they represent the Body of Christ... and NOT any
religion.
The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH (
Psalm 68:4) of Armies CONDEMNED religion when He removed His spirit from the ONLY religious "organization" HE ever sanctioned: the one HE
established. Which was the Levitical priesthood... and the Law, temple, etc., that was part of that "organization." He condemned it when He removed HIS spirit FROM it... and put that spirit in His Son, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). That condemnation was furthered by that Son, Christ, when HE condemned the works of the priests... and the false writings and teachings of the scribes and Pharisees... OF that "organization." He then condemned the people's worship OF that "visible representation" when he told Jerusalem that her "house" was "abandoned" to HER. Meaning, he and Father would no longer reside IN her - THEIR spirit would ABANDON her and leave her desolate, void of God's spirit... until those IN her came to their senses and said "Bless is HE... who comes in the name of JAH."
HE, Christ, then, put that SAME spirit... the spirit that was once alight over the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy of the temple, and was then put in him... into his BODY, by means of putting it into the PEOPLE that make up that Body... starting with the Apostles... and then other disciples:
John 20:22
Acts 2:1-4
1 Corinthians 3:16
Ephesians 2:19-21And he is STILL doing that... granting that spirit, holy spirit... to people today!
Quote:
God has always had people that have been faithf Israelites among the Isrealites
Yes! But there were also always times when He told the faithful to separate themselves from the faithLESS, or when the faithLESS persecuted/turned against/expelled the faithFUL, yes? In addition, why not be Catholic, then? Or Mormon? Or Pentecostal? Or what have you? Can the same thing not be said of these? Why not just accept ALL religion and, although some... perhaps even many in THEM are "unfaithful," be okay because you ARE "faithful"? Why the WTBTS... and not the others? On the other hand, why are the other UNclean... and the WTBTS not?
Quote:
also where most rejected God and went the example oapostasy leaders into apostacy. I then think of Jeremiah who went to preach Gods judgment on the nation for their sins, perhaps someone can hJeremiahith this.
Unfortunately, I don't quite understand all that you're saying here, but I will address what I do understand, below. Otherwise, can you restate it, please? Thanks, much!
Quote:
Did Jerimiah associate with any out side of the nation, that were still Gods people, and were any honest ones still in the nation, did they get out before, during or after?
I am not sure you want to use Jeremiah as an example, because:
(1) Jeremiah took his message directly TO Israel - he did not "associate" with Israel but remain quiet, acquiescing to what they were doing, yes?
(2) He was SEVERELY persecuted... and then killed (although his death is not recorded in the Bible) for what he WAS saying to them.
Are you suggesting that, in staying in, you would "drink" Jeremiah's "cup"... and stand up and openly state TO the WTBTS their errors? Because let me assure you, if you did... they will persecute... and try to kill... you, too. Not in body, but they will certainly try to do so in spirit. They will absolutely "expel" (disfellowship) you from their "synagogues" (public meeting [places]). I know. I did it.
Quote:
We have the encounter of tsuperstle Paul with the surper fine Apostles also.
You have to be careful with Paul, dear Cookie. I realize that he is the "god" of the WTBTS... but he is not and has never been (or deigned to be) Christ. A great deal of what Paul wrote was WRONG... which is why he had the problems he did WITH the Apostles. He called them "superfine," because THEY called him on his teachings... which went against what they had received directly from Christ. For example, PAUL wrote (to the Corinthians) to "judge those on the inside." The Apostles had received from CHRIST, however, to STOP JUDGING. To whom are we to listen: Paul... or Christ? Many in the Corinthians congregation chose Christ... and so ignored Paul's admonitions. Which prompted him to write his first two letters to them. When his insistence on judging (a particular man) almost tore the congregation in two, he changed his position (which is in his THIRD letter, commonly known as 2 Corinthians -
1 Corinthians 5:9; 2 Corinthians 13:1).
What Paul SHOULD have admonished them to do... was what CHRIST said to do:
“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the congregation; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17Paul... and many today, including the WTBTS... absolutely overstep(ped) this directive from Christ! The congregation had already DECIDED how to handle the person in question. PAUL... disagreed... and tried to get them to do HIS will, not God's (by means of doing Christ's will). It wasn't until he understood that he would be personally responsible for the division of that entire congregation that he CONDESCENDED to consider that perhaps HE had been wrong:
"So I made up my mind that I would not make another painful visit to you. For if I grieve you, who is left to make me glad but you whom I have grieved? I wrote as I did, so that when I came I would not be distressed by those who should have made me rejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy. For I wrote you out of great distress and anguish of heart and with many tears, not to grieve you but to let you know the depth of my love for you.
"If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.
"Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes." 2 Corinthians 2:1-10What happened here? Paul was using more BS to cover up his first attempts at BS. I do not mean anything against Paul, but only to share the TRUTH: Paul was formerly a Pharisee and had not yet learned the MERCY of Christ... or to OBEY Christ HIMSELF - he had taken over the congregation by means of his former "Pharisaical" understandings. Hence, his comment as to "testing" the congregation's obedience. Obedience to WHOM? Himself, not Christ. Because, again, Christ said NOT to judge. And so, if the congregation HAD obeyed Paul... they would OVERSTEPPED the command they received from Christ! Why would Paul even want them to DO that, though? Because he "didn't know what" he was doing! As a Pharisee he was whole-souled in that vocation. And so, now, he THOUGHT was he was doing was right. When Christ chose him AWAY from that vocation, however, he KNEW Paul would have to be SHOWN some things, that he would NOT get it all right away. And he didn't.
Why do I call it "BS," though? Because Paul never really acknowledged HIS error in his letter; rather, he turned it so that what he did... and what he was doing... was for the congregation's "benefit" ("See, I was only trying to help YA'LL! I was only TESTING ya'll, to see IF you would be obedient - I didn't really expect you to DO it! I was broken-hearted that you all was allowing this to go on and doing nothing about it, so when I wrote you I was UPSET. And so, if my letters upset YOU it wasn't because of ME, but because of that guy you weren't doing anything about!"). Paul NEVER said, "Oh, forgive ME, as I did not fully understand the love and mercy of Christ that says I should FORGIVE such a person if they listen to me when I admonish them as to their error! MY bad!" The Corinthians, however, knew what to do - handle the matter as a congregation... which they DID... and so they had made their decision and forgiven the man. Paul had tried to get them to do something OTHER than that. The Apostles, however, denounced Paul's instruction... and for that, he was quite peeved. And so, he called them "superfine." Paul, though, was the one with the unbridled ego, at least in this instance.
Eventually, though, he DID learn. That is why, one year AFTER telling the Corinthians TO judge (one another), he wrote the following to the Romans (yes, the letter to the Romans was written AFTER those to the Corinthians - that they are placed differently in the Bible often leads to the confusion as to Paul's spiritual "progress"):
"You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says JaHVeH,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
"So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister." Romans 14:10-13One must be careful when "following" Paul... and what he wrote, because (1) Paul wasn't always relating what he received through holy spirit, which HE admits; and (2) not ALL "inspired expressions" (expressions/communications received while IN spirit... "originate with God."). One must TEST the inspired expression and in this case, Paul's direction... to judge and remove a man who had sinned... could NOT have originated with God. Else... Christ was a liar. And THAT can not be because Christ's mouth NEVER lies (
Proverbs 8:4-7). So, it HAD to be Paul who was the "liar" here!
Quote:
A question: If some believe that the JW became part of BTB, when do you think this happened? I have my personoccurred that this may have occured when the WT starting their 10 yr association with the UN.
It started when Charles Russell and the men he associated with rejected what they were receiving from the TRUE member of the Body of Christ, and rejected that member: MARIA Russell. From there, everything they stated was false, in its foundation. They were simply a tool, from that point, designed to "mislead, if possible, EVEN the chosen ones." And many of these (chosen ones) WERE misled. It went from bad to worse when they stopped ALL from partaking of the flesh and blood of Christ... in essence, "dividing" the Body into two SEPARATE groups... rather than gathering two separate groups into ONE:
“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."
Revelation 7:9"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.” Revelation 5:6-10When they designed the "other sheep" and "great crowd" as having a DIFFERENT hope than the sons of Israel... they not only LIED... but SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS BEFORE (such) ONES. That they do/have done this - started, perpetuate, and continue to perpetuate the LIE... AND shut up the kingdom before men... SHOWS, among other things, that they are NOT from God, but from THEIR father -
Matthew 23:13-34; John 8:44[\b]]
I hope this helps, truly! I also hope that you allow yourself to become among those who hear the Spirit and the Bride when these say to YOU:
[b]"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which water/spirit is HIS blood, breath, and seed... and is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, OUR dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)...
FREE!"
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
Shellamar
Login
Register
FAQ
Search
