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 Post subject: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:52 pm 
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Right about now, most of you, if on the west coast are at the memorial. But I felt I write our experience here on the East. It's 10:13pm here.

My wife and I went to the local Jw memorial, uninvited, but none the less knew it and went. We got there 10 minutes before the service began. She was tired from work and fell asleep and I woke her up an hour before to get ready if she wanted to join me.

We didn't have any song books or Bibles. Plus I do not like singing their songs. (I do like song 29 though because it's history, but wish the words were different). We couldn't find any seats. And as expected, they assumed that we were non-witnesses, 'worldly' and began doing what I expected: A sister and her husband went OUT of their way, took us across the back of the hall, and gave up their seats for us, even though we didn't ask them. I had my phone on me and noticed they had wifi. I asked if there was a password so I could look up the scriptures cause we didn't have a bible. I put in the password and the brother took my phone and immediately went to jw.org and pulled up the online new world translation and gave it back to me (the same feeling I remembered of them making sure I used the 'correct translation' in a way to subliminally say 'We are kind and generous people, and if you're going to use our wifi, we want you to use our publication.' )

I thanked him and went back to my wife. Another brother offered me a bible for my wife to use, but she was sort of unsettled. I respectfully declined the brother's bible. She was nervous, she was going to partake, and wasn't familiar with the Jw religion as I am. As she later confessed "You can speak to them, know scriptures and can argue a point. I can't." I tried to reassure her everything will be fine, and have Faith. Everything will be fine. She grabbed my forearm and didn't let go.

The song came, went. Prayer...etc. then the talk started on and as I sat there listening to the words coming from the brother, something inside me became unsettled. The brother said something, about the heavenly hope/earthly hope and that there are two hopes. I didn't want my wife to get the wrong idea. So I opened up Ephesians 4 that there is only ONE hope. I shared it with her and she nodded. She later said 'yeah it was very strange they said two hopes when there is only one.'

And then, I either heard something from the spirit, or I was observant enough, but something began to bother me. Sort of like a thorn in my brain. I started to get these thoughts in my head of confusion and uncertainty. But, it was like I was watching them, they weren't mine. They weren't affecting me, I was just aware that they were there. I looked at my wife. When I looked at her, I realized, she had a look on her face. The same look of confusion and uncertainty, sort of like, 'omg, maybe i'm wrong.' I felt like there was energy coming from her and THAT was affecting me, and it was being projected into my mind. Or maybe the spirit told me. I can't tell. It was very ODD. I wasn't watching her initially when this began, but something inside slowly and subtly gave me insight into the thoughts she was having. Like whispering something, even though I wasn't looking at her initially.

After all, the brother was going on and on about only 144000 to eat and drink. They are CHOSEN and etc.. etc.. etc.. and who decides? Only Jehovah. etc... and I started to feel like I hadn't prepared her for this. I didn't caution her to be aware of how the witnesses speak and treat people. "Horns of a lamb but speaks as a dragon." And the propaganda. (she never was a witness).

The next 'thought' and I don't know if it was ME or the spirit at this point, and I feel like it was in that 'subtle quiet voice talking to you' voice, that was 'show her whats written.' So I pulled out John 6:50-54 and emphasized 'anyone' etc.. asked her 'who is Christ talking to here? if it only applied to 144000 why would he tell people 'unless you (those that arn't part of the 144000) eat and drink, you have no life in yourselves?'

The brother spoke about the paradise earth while the 144000 in heaven. I pulled up Revelation and pointed to 'great crowd IN heaven before the throne.' Again he emphasized on only Jehovah Chooses etc... I reminded her of john 6 and 15. pointed out what happens to the branches that are not in union. etc.. trying to remind her there really is 'no other way' into the kingdom.

The time came for the bread and wine. First brother came up and said a prayer. While he was saying the prayer, I said a prayer because I do not feel comfortable saying amen to the name of Jehovah through Jesus. We were sitting on the very right seats, looking at the podium. There were only three seats in this row. The isle, middle and enclosed right seat. I sat in the middle, a brother sat in the isle, and my wife in the enclosed very right side, on my right side. I felt this was the best solution here and was thankful that she sat at the right side, this way, she did not have to hand the plate to an 'unknown' person but back to me. Somehow in my mind, it made sense and easier for this arrangement being the best solution as this was the first time she was really nervous.

The plate came from behind us. The brother that was doing it behind us, came to us and I was handed the plate from the brother (?) on my left or .... the brother administering the plate from isle to isle? Can't recall.

Is it just me or are the bread pieces getting bigger and bigger? I picked up a piece and attempted to bite into it. And it didn't break! So I shoved it all the way in, in one bite and realized I must've looked like I hadn't eaten for a week or something while I did it. I handed her the plate, she did the same and gave it back to me. I passed the plate back.

You ever have that feeling, where you know everyone is starring at you. I mean just STARRING and you can feel their eyes burrowing into the back of your head? .....didn't happen so much to me this time. But I knew they were. *shrugs*

The brother sitting to my left got up (so I guess he did hand me the plate), and went to the back. Sort of like 'oh i'm not sitting next to this guy." And I felt judgement there. (He did come back after the wine and sang but immediately left once the prayer was done, no talk, no nothing). When the wine was going around, the brother that was doing the passing that gave us the bread originally (coming from behind us) gave it to the people behind us but did not come to us with the wine, and I got nervous. My wife was clutching to my arm nervously, and there was no one sitting next to me now on my left, so I wasn't sure even if they were going to come to our isle. Two out of our three seat row, was us, these two 'worldly' people that were eating and drinking at the memorial!

However, the brother from the front came and gave it to me directly, (empty chair next to me), I politely took it and whispered 'thank you!' Sat back took a drink and gave it my wife and she did, and I passed it back to him. And you could feel the dead air in the room at this point of all the people that saw us.

Ria was still nervous and worried something was going to happen. I comforted her, which helped in some ways, to make the awkwardness of the whole thing easier.

After prayer, the brother got up and left immediately without saying anything, and all of a sudden this brother who was sitting in the middle section parrell to our row yelled almost loudly 'You weren't suppose to eat and DRINK it! I KNOW! i made the same mistake when I first started!'
I politely looked at him, shook his hand, and said "oh? All I am going to say to you is John 6: 50-54. That is all I would like to say.'
"John 6? " ~him
"John 6: 50-54, yeah. " ~Me

I saw him turn around and pull his bible to john.

I got the feeling of telling him John 15, but didn't. I was trying to make sure Ria was okay and get out/keep us safe. As I was walking towards the door stuck in traffic. I looked back in his direction when we were 15 feet away to that brother, and he was still standing in the same spot, with the bible open, reading.

We went to eat out afterwards and came home. Ria's fine. But I remember what it was like the first couple of times I went to the memorial and partook and that fear and anxiety. I'm quite proud of her. Braver than I.

How was it for you guys?

Me


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Quote:
After prayer, the brother got up and left immediately without saying anything, and all of a sudden this brother who was sitting in the middle section parrell to our row yelled almost loudly 'You weren't suppose to eat and DRINK it! .....Voices

What did you expect?..
This is WatchTowers biggest world wide, celebration of the year!..

"IGNORE JESUS DAY"

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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:20 pm 
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LOL well to be honest, I sort of expected something to happen but wasn't sure what. Which is ironic, considering previous memorial attendances resulted in absolutely nothing. No feeling of 'something is going to happen.' No one really talking to me etc... Nothing. In california it was a little different. That's my home state so it was a little bit different, people ignored me cause they knew me.

Me


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Location: California
Hubby and I went to our local KH, it was extremely crowded this time, parking us in a cow pasture! We were 30 min early but ended up have to sit in the back room. I was surprised to see 3 flat screen TV's, must be getting some good donations. People were on their phones and iPads, few had bibles. They started out with song, awww that's what the flat screen was for, the words to the song came up, like karaoke.
I looked around and felt a sense of sadness at all the people that would pass up our Lord this evening. The room we were sitting in was mainly filled with young girls in their 20's. During the talk a phone rang, elderly man, he answered his phone, told whomever that he would call them back then hung up and proceeded to text.
When they sent the emblems around I was shocked to see how big they were, the size of the palm of my hand. The plate was coming my way, I told my husband I'll hand you the plate and take one, break it and give me a piece. Everything was going as planned until he tried to break it. It was so hard it wouldn't break. When it finally broke it was in several pieces on the plate and two small pieces(crumbs)between his fingers. He passed the plate and gave me my crumb. The girls behind him started laughing saying "he broke them". So we proceeded to crunch the very hard crumbs. And of course all eyes were on us, I just looked straight ahead, said my prayers and prayed that their ears and eyes would be opened. So many people in there and not eating and drinking and remembering how we used to be one of them.
Then the wine was passed and all eyes were watching us again. After last prayer we were ready to go, no one talked to us, no introductions, they didn't even move so we could leave. Next year we will try another hall to see if the wafers are less cement like.


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:05 pm 
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LOL well to be honest, I sort of expected something to happen but wasn't sure what.....Voices

Nothing much ever happens..
Unless a Rabble Rouser like you comes in, starts sucking back the wine..
And..
Tries to chew petrified 60 year old crackers, somebodys grandma passed around when she was a teenager..

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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:24 am 
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Quote:
Nothing much ever happens..
Unless a Rabble Rouser like you comes in, starts sucking back the wine..
And..
Tries to chew petrified 60 year old crackers, somebodys grandma passed around when she was a teenager..


I'm sitting in my chemistry class on my laptop and when I read this response, I almost burst out laughing really loud during the lecture with 200 students present. You tickle me.

Quote:
What did you expect?..
This is WatchTowers biggest world wide, celebration of the year!..


Oh I know. I told Ria, 'I know you don't quite understand the situation from a jw perspective, and that's good because you were really nervous but you did something really powerful, and i'm proud of you.' She wanted to know what she had 'done.' I explained. She didn't quite get the situation, but I told her don't worry next year you'll be fine.

Quote:
Happytobeout
I was surprised to see 3 flat screen TV's, must be getting some good donations.


RIGHT?! I saw that and was like 'wow, a lot of things have changed in the organization since I left years ago. The whole karaoke thing was new to me. I remember when I first saw this, people using ipods for bibles, it was very shocking to me.

Quote:
When they sent the emblems around I was shocked to see how big they were, the size of the palm of my hand.


ok so it's not JUST me. They are trying to make it bigger in order to get people to not eat it.

Another thing, does it really have to be BAKED? I mean hell i'm indian, and Roti is just wheat and flour. I mean that's basically what this is, no yeast, only wheat and flour. And I grew up eating that. Why does it have to be so dang hard? Try a roti....very soft....delicious with some achar... yum.. getting hungry.

oh...class's over, gotta go respond more later.

Me


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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uh...so just to not throw anyone off ...i was just thinking about eating roti and got caught up in that delicious thought, don't actually eat the communion like a meal, you know...that whole 'eatin and drinking judgement' thing.

whoops i meant flour and WATER

or wheat and water....

not flour and wheat...silly me

me


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:06 pm 
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This was the song for Watchtowers special world wide clebration..
"Ignore Jesus Day"

It`s a song praising the WBT$ GB "Rock Star" Popes..
What better way to ignore Jesus!

I appropriately added the last line to the song..

..........................
Song 147 - A Special Possession (1 Peter 2:9)

God has a new creation,
His spirit-anointed sons.
He has bought them from mankind;
His approval they’ve won.
(CHORUS)
A special possession,
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame.

They are a holy nation,
Who handle the truth aright.
God has called them from darkness
To his wonderful light.
(CHORUS)
A special possession,
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame.

Faithful to their commission,
They gather the other sheep.
To the Lamb they are loyal.
His commandments they keep.
(CHORUS)
A special possession,
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame
Let`s bring their overfed fat ass`s a sandwich!

"Make It A Really Big Sandwich!"
"I CAN STILL SEE MY FEET!!"

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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Thanks MUCH for sharing that, dear Voice (and peace to you and dear Ria). I am proud of both you and dear Ria!

Quote:
all of a sudden this brother who was sitting in the middle section parrell to our row yelled almost loudly 'You weren't suppose to eat and DRINK it! I KNOW! i made the same mistake when I first started!'


Poor thing. Good response from you - though, I do hope he understood what he read (Acts 8:31). But thanks for sharing your experience and starting the "ball rolling" here - LOLOL!


We went, dear hubby, dear daughter, and I. Since this a KH that the Hubs formerly attended, quite a few men came up to great him. They remembered him... and he isn't DF'd (he's a "fader" of sorts - I mean that because he isn't the kind of guy they would want to DF - he's too formidable for them - LOLOL! So, they not only don't bother him, but kind of fall over him when he's around - LOLOLOLOL!).

Ennywho... no TV monitors for us (we were at a community center vs. a KH, so that's probably why), but the speaker did say, "Take out your electronic devices, if you have them, and we have printouts; just raise your hand, if you need one." We already had the handout and, as usual, I noted that they all overlooked the TELLING lyrics of both of their own songs...

Quote:
Song 18 -

1. Today, Jehovah God, we stand before your throne,
For you showed the greatest love that could ever be shown.
You gave the gift of your dear Son, that we might live.
No greater sacrifice than this could you ever give.

(CHORUS)
He gave his life to set us free.
His precious blood provides the key.
With all our hearts, we’ll go on thanking you eternally.


2. It was a willing sacrifice that Jesus made.
Out of love, his perfect life was the price that he paid.
We had no hope until he came to save mankind.
But now our hope is finding life, leaving death behind.

(Chorus)


Ummmm... his BLOOD... provides the KEY! The key to what? LIFE! Yet, they "shut up the kingdom".

And from the song the dear Sher'f (peace, luv!) shared below:

Quote:
Faithful to their commission,
They gather the other sheep.
To the Lamb they are loyal.
His commandments they keep.


I can find NOWHERE where our dear Lord said, "Go, gather the 'other sheep.'" Rather, he said that, in addition to the Jews:

"... I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;those too... I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become [i]one flock, one shepherd." John 10:16

AND... he said, "He that loves me will keep my commandments," yet, they totally overlook the "command" to "KEEP" eating his flesh and drinking his blood "in remembrance" of him.

I thought, "Poor idjits - They must keep on singing... right over the CLUES!"

[Note: While I was trying to find those lyrics to show you, I came across a couple/few things on jw.org that I found quite curious. For instance, did ya'll know they now have "Meeting Workbooks"?? Yep (https://www.jw.org/publications/jw-meeting-workbook/)! I'm thinking maybe these took the place of the KM (which seems to stop with the Dec 2015 issue and the workbooks started with Jan 2016, so...).

Also, their "Study Bible" only has three (3) books (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) but ALL of the "Appendices" available online (https://www.jw.org/publications/bible/s ... ble/books/). Now, THAT is a little frightening - because I have NO doubt they're brainwashing these poor folks one NT book at a time... in conjunction with inculcating their false teachings from the Appendices!!!!

The music books went from "Sing Out Joyfully to [Jehovah]" to "Sing to [Jehovah]"... and I totally noticed that the people seemed almost afraid to sing! Some didn't know the melodies, some mealy-mouthed it, some sang silently - it was like being taken back in time to the 1950's, where everyone had to be "demur", etc.! No more of that songbook with the Jews' mouths thrown back, singing out "full-throated" - LOLOL! But didn't the Psalmist write:

Sing aloud to God our strength;
Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob.
Raise a song and strike the timbrel,
The pleasant harp with the lute.
Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon,
At the full moon, on our solemn feast day?
Psalm 81:1

He DID... but the WTBTS has changed THAT to:

Shout joyfully to God our strength.+
Shout in triumph to the God of Jacob.
Begin the music and take a tambourine,
The melodious harp together with the stringed instrument.
Blow the horn on the new moon,
On the full moon, for the day of our festival."
NWT

And'ja know WHY??? Because, JAH said:

When you come to appear before me,
Who has required this from you,
This trampling of my courtyards?
Stop bringing in any more worthless grain offerings.
Your incense is detestable to me.
New moons, sabbaths, the calling of conventions
I cannot put up with the use of magical power along with your solemn assembly.
My spirit has hated your new moons and your festivals.
They have become a burden to me;
I am tired of bearing them.
And when you spread out your palms,
I hide my eyes from you.
Although you offer many prayers,
I am not listening;
Your hands are filled with blood."
Isaiah 1:14

And...

"I hate, I despise your festivals,+
And I take no pleasure in the aroma of your solemn assemblies.
Even if you offer me whole burnt offerings and gift offerings,
I will find no pleasure in them;
And I will not look with favor on your communion sacrifices of fattened animals.
Spare me the din of your songs;
And let me not hear the melodies of your stringed instruments."
Amos 5:21


They think this applies to everyone... except them, of course. That whole pointing the finger at the RCC... but ignoring the three pointing back at them (se "Proclaimer's" Book, pp. 69-70).

I digress.

So, we get there, sit down, and I immediately begin to have a "summer" moment. I'd forgotten to bring a fan, though, and so asked dear Hubs to get me something (to fan with). S'how we got the song pages. Of course, one page is kinda flimsy, so Hubs says, "You want something more substantial? They've got some pamphlets up there" and I say, "Sure!" Well, he comes back with something that resembles a WT or AW, but has the title... wait for it... "Return to Jehovah" (https://www.jw.org/publications/books/r ... o-jehovah/).

I immediately felt nauseated and said (loudly), "OH, NO... NOPE!" and handed it right back. He took it and began to thumb through it and I said, "Uh-uh, stop it, stop it, stop it..." and he looked at me and laughed. Now, he's a grown man and has every right to thumb through whatever he wanted... but I tell you, all I could think of was "NO, Murray, DON'T! DON'T look at the light!"... and "Murray" (who I always thought was "Louie"!) responding, "But it's SO beeyootiful!!"... right before the [bug]light zapped his *ss! LOLOLOL!

[youtube]v=TTUQyEr-sg0[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTUQyEr-sg0

So, dear Hubster took the pamphlet back up front.

Then, song time, prayer time... and the usual "no one no one can choose whether they want to go to heaven or stay on earth... 'Jehovah' chooses... but WE can tell you who will and who won't... and YOU won't!" time.

Bread plate comes... and yep, big honkin' pieces. SO proud of dear Hubs and Daughter, though: Hubs picks up a piece and you can hear a loud SNAP! and "clink!" as he breaks a piece. But he only broke a small corner, so that left a big piece for me still. So... I took the whole thang (yes, I did!). I then snapped off a piece and put in my mouth (where it began to soften, praise JAH!, so I didn't have all that "crunching" going on we usually have). Passed the plate to dear Daughter... and... wait for it... another loud SNAP! as she broke off her piece! Now, ya'll KNOW... everyone in the place (community center) could hear those snaps. The first one was bad enough, but I am SURE someone prolly almost fainted over the second one - LOLOLOL!

What to do, now, with my other large piece? I thought of holding it until the event was over, putting it in my pocket, purse, etc. But then I heard from my dear Lord... and ate the rest of it. I know some take issue with the "flavor," but... well, it's not flesh, which it could be. But my Lord gave me a provision... some unleavened bread... and what he reminded me of is that the taste is irrelevant - it's not about the taste/flavor (and I never get why that's such an issue)... but about what it represents. His flesh. And so it's not supposed to "taste good"... we shouldn't even be concerning ourselves with that... as it's not supposed to represent physical food. So... I ate all of mine, shoving that last big piece in my mouth and breaking it down as quickly as I could just so's those who would stare wouldn't have long to do so.

Then... song, prayer... and we were outta there.

VERY interestingly, though, there was a police car... parked right next to our car... with the officer's window rolled down... and the engine running, while the officer appeared to be "doing some paperwork." We all marveled at that ("What, they called the police on us!??"). But there were also some young ess-ays/vatos (i.e., young hispanic men with plaid Pendleton's) that kept coming in and going out... so I said maybe he was there because of them - who knows?

And so, that was our experience. Nothing new under the sun, really - same ol', same ol'... but WELL worth it if even ONE person goes, "Wait a minute... hmmmmm...".

Thanks again, dear V, for sharing... and dear, dear Sher'f - peace to you luv and you are a crack up!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:19 pm 
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I, too, went. I did not partake, mainly because the idea of it was upsetting my wife too much. I have, er, shall we say, issues? I can only hope our Lord can forgive me. I am very weak.

Anyway, we had a large crowd. Over 200. Bethel speaker. In the first five minutes, it was just one falsehood after another after another. For example, the speaker said, "Only the 144,000 will be co-rulers with Christ. Want proof from the Bible?" Oh, boy, I thought, here we go. He continued, "Turn to Revelation 14:1." Then he proceeded to read verse one, emphasizing how they had the name of the Lamb and his Father on their forehead, then referenced the phrase "bought from among mankind as firstfruits" in verse 4. I thought, so... this proves they are co-rulers how???

When hammering home the point that only the 144,000 partake (this seemed to be harped on more than normal), he, of course used Luke 22:29,30, but emphasized verse 30.

and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

His point was that because he had the 11 eat the bread and drink the wine, it was the same 11 that he was making a covenant for a kingdom with, and these same ones would eat and drink in the Kingdom. //;)

I hadn't heard this particular angle before, so can this be refuted? Let's see what the scriptures actually say. Luke 22:17,18:

And accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.”

Christ says he would not drink again until the Kingdom of God comes. Would it make more sense that in verse 30, he was telling the 11 that THEY would be privileged to eat and drink at HIS table in the Kingdom, and NOT that only they should eat the bread and drink the wine? The idea that this applies to just the 144,000 is ludicrous. But, the bulk of JW doctrines ultimately come down to this 144,000 vs. great crowd teaching.

Anyway, it was a highly frustrating evening. It was all I could do to keep my facial expressions from betraying my inner thoughts. I could feel a panic attack setting in. I haven't been to a meeting in over a year, so that was added stress with lots of people coming up and saying how much they missed me, with one older sister having the gall to say, "So, when are you coming back?"

As an aside, I noticed a pretty major translation bias at Luke 22:17: Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves. The Greek word translating in to this phrase "pass it from one to the other" is diamerisate (G1266), which means "to distribute, to divide". No other translation I've seen has "pass it". "Divide it" or "share it" are the two most common. In my opinion, this is a subtle (or maybe not so subtle???) way to show that the way JWs observe the Lord's Evening Meal is correct in that they "pass" the emblems from one person to the other without eating it. In fact, in Luke 22, you will not find a command to eat the bread or drink the wine. No wonder they choose that passage instead of Matt 26:26,27 where the apostles are commanded to "Take, eat" and "Drink out of it, all of you".


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Greetings and peace to you all,

Just returning home. Long drive but it was worth every minute. What a privilege!

We attended two of them this year. Both sister congregations. The early one still has many that remember us as we attended this hall for ten years before changing to the sister congregation. It was our first time going to this one. They weren't expecting us and a few thought we might be " returning."
Until of course we partook. Then all the smiles went dead!

Did get to sit next to a couple that we knew most of their lives. They only go to memorial and they spoke with us freely. I'm sure they reported this to HIS father (who was actually in our wedding) who was in the hall that was the later one.
But got to tell them if they ever wanted to know why we come and do what we do, we'd be be more than happy to share. She said, she's love that! We shall see!

It's the same ol same ol. How loving and merciful Jehovah is to send his son. " Doesn't this make all of us truly appreciate and want to show our love and appreciation for what he did and how much we need his blood to cover our sins"????

DUHHHH YES! And this is why we do partake and demonstrate an appreciation and love and how much we need him....UUUGHH!!!

Anywho, glad to hear about those of you who went and shared.

And YES Shel, the songs were scrolling down a movie screen and it was the most pathetic sound from them. They hated singing. It was terrible. I actually noticed it and was surprised this year.

And Leaving as to what you said here.....

an aside, I noticed a pretty major translation bias at Luke 22:17: Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves.
In my opinion, this is a subtle (or maybe not so subtle???) way to show that the way JWs observe the Lord's Evening Meal is correct in that they "pass" the emblems from one person to the other without eating it.


I could see where they might use this but during this occasion where "Jesus" said this ALL of them partook. There was no other so-called earthly hope then. Therefore, no observing so no other way to understand this command. EVERYONE partook because everyone was of the 144.000 then. Right? Or am I missing something?

And in listening to two memorials, there was a huge emphasis again on the time coming when they will no longer celebrate the memorial.


Have a great week ALL of you, Love and Peace to you always, your sister fellow servant and slave of Christ, Kim.


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Thanks, EVERYONE ( and peace to you, ALL!) for sharing your experiences! I am encouraged and rejoice at them all, as I hope you are.

Dear LQ, peace to you, dear brother... and I'm sure our dear Lord has already forgiven you. Indeed, even before last evening. He already knew what you would... snd would not do. He forgave Peter, did he not, even after he already knew (and told Peter) what Peter was going to do? And Peter SAW him. WALKED with him... and not only saw pur dear.Lord's works... but personally walked on water!! And, yet...

I also understand your "nervousness." I'm sure we all faced that, early on. But, at some point, we have to "feel the fear... and do [it] anyway," whatever "it" is. Here, it's recognizing our dear Lord as HE said to do.

I do want to comment as to this, though:

Quote:
11 eat the bread and drink the wine, it was the same 11 that he was making a covenant for a kingdom with


I realize the WTBTS teaches that only 11 were present, that Judas had already left, but that is not the truth (not sure whether you knew that or not). Judas was absolutely there. For one, the covenant was made with the 12 tribes, not eleven tribes. If Judas had been dismissed, then our dear Lord would have had to do the event again, at some later date, with either the [new] one, Matthias, or with all 12, including Matthias. But he had already died by the time Matthias was chosen as the replacement.

Under contract law, a contact is not struck ALL of the parties to the agreement do not "sign." True, it might hold as to the parties that did sign, but then again, it might not. For example, if 10 people want to buy a race car together, and they are to own it equally, then all 10 must sign. But say, one isn't present/doesn't sign. The seller can't just hold a 1/10th share (well, he can but not if he's selling the entire car). The holdout must either sign (even at a later day, but by a specific date or the contact is void... or the contract must be re-written to include only the 9.

That is not what occurred here - ALL of the parties to the Covenant "for a kingdom" were present, even Judas. And we have proof of that, as recorded by Matthew, Mark, and Luke:

Quote:
"When evening came, he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples. While they were eating, he said: “Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.” Being very much grieved at this, each and every one began to say to him: “Lord, it is not I, is it?” In reply he said: “The one who dips his hand with me into the bowl is the one who will betray me. True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written about him, but woe+ to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed!+ It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Judas, who was about to betray him, replied: “It is not I, is it, Rabbi?” [Jesus] said to him: “You yourself said it.”

"As they continued eating, [Jesus] took a loaf, and after saying a blessing, he broke it, and giving it to the disciples, he said: “Take, eat. This means my body.” And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins."
Matthew 26:21-28


and...

Quote:
"After evening had fallen, he came with the Twelve. And as they were reclining at the table and eating, [Jesus] said: “Truly I say to you, one of you who is eating with me will betray me.” They began to be grieved and to say to him one by one: “It is not I, is it?” He said to them: “It is one of the Twelve, the one dipping with me into the bowl. For the Son of man is going away, just as it is written about him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”

"And as they continued eating, he took a loaf, said a blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “Take it; this means my body.” And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, and they all drank out of it. And he said to them: “This means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many.
Mark 14:17-24


and...

Quote:
"... when the hour came, he reclined at the table along with the apostles. And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you, I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.” And accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.”

"Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body, which is to be given in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” Also, he did the same with the cup after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.

But look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table. For, indeed, the Son of man is going his way according to what has been determined; all the same, woe to that man through whom he is betrayed!” So they began to discuss among themselves which one of them could really be about to do this."
Luke 22:14-23



The WTBTS [tries to] get around this by saying (1) Judas had already left... a lie...because (2) Christ would never have entered into the covenant with Judas... a lie; and so (3) Luke's account is not written in order... yet another lie.

This last one is most interesting because we can KNOW it is a lie... because of the reason Luke said WHY he WROTE his account... and HOW he wrote it:

Quote:
"Seeing that many have undertaken to compile an account of the facts that are given full credence among us, just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message, I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent The·ophʹi·lus, so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally." Luke 1:1-4


Now, I know that, like me, dear brother, you like to look the word origins and transliterations in the Greek. So, let's look at the words "logical order", kathexēs (G2517). It means:

Quote:
1. one after another, successively, in order


Consecutive, following after, etc. So, dear Luke, who wrote HIS account for the "most excellent Theophilus" said his account was written in [the] order of the events occurrences. Why? Because "MANY" had undertaken to write an account of the facts that he and others totally believed. Gave "full credence" to. Facts that were handed down to them NOT from JAH or Christ... but from folks who, from the beginning, were eyewitnesses AND attendants of the message. AND he qualified HIS version by saying "I have TRACED... ALL things... FROM THE START... WITH ACCURACY."

So, how in the world can anyone assume his account is OUT of order? Yet, that is what the WTBTS teaches:

Quote:
"Immediately Judas left the group. A comparison
of Matthew 26: 20-29 with John 13:21-30 indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal. Luke's presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological order, for Judas had definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the 'covenant... for a kingdom'." Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, Page 130



So, there you have you have their position.

Judas was there, though, not just because Luke wrote that he was (and the accounts by Matthew and Mark both imply he was), but he was NEEDED... in order for the FULLNESS of the Covenant to be in effect. Once that occurred, he could be removed by Christ, the assignor... and replaced... by the assignee, Matthias:

Quote:
Assignee

1. a person to whom a right or liability is legally transferred.
2. a person to whom some right or interest is transferred, either for his or her own enjoyment or in trust."


Because Judas "failed to perform" under the contract (covenant) with Christ... his performance being his LOYALTY to and FAITH in Christ... he violated HIS part of the contract (covenant) and so rendered it "voidable." And so our dear Lord assigned Judas' portion to another (Matthias).

Dear, dear brother... let go of EVERYTHING those "false Christ and false prophets" have taught you. You CANNOT "put NEW wine in an OLD 'wineskin'." You MUST tear your "house" DOWN... to the foundation... and then let CHRIST... "build"... again. Starting with himself, the "Foundation Cornerstone."

But you'll only be able to do that... when you completely quit touching the "unclean" thing.

I know you know this, and so will keep you... and your hope... in my prayers.

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Peace to you all!


Thank you Voices, for sharing your experience (yours and Ria's and I'm glad that you were also able to help her through the false things in the talk). Everyone else as well.

Quote:
Since this a KH that the Hubs formerly attended, quite a few men came up to great him. They remembered him... and he isn't DF'd (he's a "fader" of sorts - I mean that because he isn't the kind of guy they would want to DF - he's too formidable for them - LOLOL! So, they not only don't bother him, but kind of fall over him when he's around - LOLOLOLOL!).


Lol, that is TOO funny!


**

The wafers... yes, they were very big. I took one and tried to break it, not a chance, lol. But I could not put the whole thing in my mouth, so I bit off the first half, then ate the rest as well.

I gotta tell you though... even though many would not SEE if someone was partaking at the memorial, they'd HEAR it. Just from the sound of taking that first bite (or as the rest of you noted, the sound of just breaking it.)

I don't sing the songs (or pray the prayers). I try not to even listen to them (or the talk, but this year I decided to hear what they had to say... and wow, there is so much mistaken in all of that) I did catch the part in the song about His blood being the key, though. And I kind of marveled that they could begin the talk with those verses in Luke about the bread and wine Christ gave the apostles; and also the Corinthians verse 'for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until He comes"... and yet NOT see (or hear) at all what Christ is saying to DO.

I, too, caught the emphasis that the memorial would last ONLY until Christ returned.


I was able speak with one lady who came up to me at the end, and (paraphrasing) said that it is true when the speaker said that the anointing is not something we choose... many are called, few are chosen. She smiled and nodded. Then I said, but we do get to choose if/who we obey. I mentioned that the apostles were not anointed at the time that Christ instituted the evening meal with them, and I asked her if she remembered the verse at the end of the book of Matthew (I asked it as a question, if indeed it was at the end of Matthew) where Christ says to His apostles to go and make disciples, 'teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you'? And didn't he command the apostles to eat and to drink of Him?


(the speaker actually said in the talk that it was a command that Christ gave the apostles)


I left soon after that.

None in my family come with me - but - my sons were interested in hearing what happened this year. (which I only knew because the Spirit prompted me to ASK) So I got to share some things with them also, which was awesome. Some things they already knew (such as eating and drinking the body and blood of Christ)... as my eldest put it... ya... isn't that the basic of basics?.


Quote:
As an aside, I noticed a pretty major translation bias at Luke 22:17: Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves. The Greek word translating in to this phrase "pass it from one to the other" is diamerisate (G1266), which means "to distribute, to divide". No other translation I've seen has "pass it". "Divide it" or "share it" are the two most common. In my opinion, this is a subtle (or maybe not so subtle???) way to show that the way JWs observe the Lord's Evening Meal is correct in that they "pass" the emblems from one person to the other without eating it. In fact, in Luke 22, you will not find a command to eat the bread or drink the wine. No wonder they choose that passage instead of Matt 26:26,27 where the apostles are commanded to "Take, eat" and "Drink out of it, all of you".



Oh, I didn't notice that, Leaving. They do make it sound like that is all one has to do... even though they SAY that Christ was speaking to His apostles, and they KNOW that merely passing the bread and wine around is NOT all that Christ commanded His apostles to DO. They KNOW that He meant for them to eat and to drink. Yet they use His words to them - to eat and to drink - to instead suggest that holding a memorial (and not eating or drinking) is what He said they should keep doing in remembrance of Him.






May anyone who thirsts and anyone who seeks, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


Love and peace to you all, and to your dear loved ones,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:42 am 
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Thanks, Shelby, for that explanation on Judas. I knew Judas was there and ate the bread and the wine, even though WTBTS says he wasn't. For some reason, I had it in my mind that he had been dismissed prior to the covenant being made, but after re-reading it, I see that's not stated there in Luke, and since Luke is the only one who records the covenant part of the evening, we have to assume he was indeed there.

One thing I learned recently is that Judas HAD to be there to eat and drink. It was prophesied in advance, if Psalm 41:9 is indeed prophetic of Christ.

Even the man at peace with me, one whom I trusted, Who was eating my bread, has lifted his heel against me


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 Post subject: Re: Memorial Experience
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Wow so many of you went to the Memorial, it was great to be able to read about your experiences and live vicariously through you.
Crazy that they all had big hard crackers, obviously they weren't expecting anyone to eat them. They better be careful, someone could break a tooth with hard stuff like that.

I was a bit puzzled why you all would go to a Jehovah's Witness Memorial when all they do is tell lies and don't want anyone to partake. I am aware that you want to bring to their attention that all should take part but I am not sure that they get that. I remember my parents and others in my congregation thinking people were just stupid or crazy if they partook and were not a JW. I remember only one person taking the emblems that the elders and congregation felt was acceptable. It was a spinster woman in her 60's, she was a cranky judgemental mean person. She hated children and she felt entitled and expected the best seat in the Hall and everyone to cater to her. I used to think, Wow if that is what the anointed are like I don't think we will have a righteous rulership.


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