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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Peace to you!


So this morning I am online, having just gotten up, and the doorbell rings. (okay, this is 10am, but on Saturday, that is early morning, lol. Everyone else was asleep) I don't even expect JW's at the door, because they do not come here. So all I'm thinking is, who in the world is ringing my doorbell at 10 am Saturday morning. I glance out the window and see a woman standing there, still just figuring that its someone trying to get us to switch to their company for heat/power, etc.

So I open the door, see the two women, and realize they must be handing out invites to the Memorial. It is less than two weeks away after all. So I step outside and shut the door behind me (since Pup is right by the door and is just going to jump all over them if I invite them in, plus everyone else is sleeping and we have a small house). The woman in front offers me the invite, starts to explain it, but I say, 'oh for the memorial'.

So we talked a bit. They were very nice of course. I was going to just take the memorial and let them go, but the Spirit led me to continue talking with them. Besides, what would have been the point (or good) in just letting them go without sharing some truth as I have learned from my Lord with them? So I mention that I attend another hall each year for the memorial. All the while we are talking I am in my head - oh I don't know if I want to get into that with them - but my Lord kept bringing things to mind, so I went with Him.


I told them straight out that I do not agree with the religion, that is not why I go to the memorial. I think I said I went to eat and drink of Him and also to bear witness to Him (maybe not in those exact words). I told them that I follow Christ. I asked them to remember what they think about all other religions; that I just see that in ALL religion. All of them teach things that are wrong. Even their religion, as they know, because sometimes things are wrong and they have to change their teaching. All religion has some truth but also some lies. The one woman said yes, but some religions are better (or worse) than others. I agreed, 'yes, that is true, some are better and some are worse. But why not simply go to Christ, then, who IS the Truth.'

I think the one woman then brought up about how we all want to live forever, and that there are things we can do so that we can live forever, and she mentioned the bible, I think she was meaning to say that those directions are written there.

The Spirit reminded me about Peter's words, and so I said, "Yes, remember how even Peter said, "Lord, you have the words of eternal life."

Then I thought, 'oh of course, this leads right back to the eating and drinking of His body and blood'.

So I went into a bit about that part of what is written, about how many turned away when Christ taught that we must eat and drink of Him. I repeated some of His instruction that we must eat and drink of him to remain in Him, and for him to raise us up on the last day, and that he said unless we eat and drink we have no life in ourselves.

Then the one woman brought up the explanation (from the bible teach book that she pulled out) about how many turned away because they thought he meant to literally drink his blood, which would be cannibalism. That the emblems were symbols.

And I nodded, saying that those disciples who turned away did not remain with him long enough so that he could teach them what he meant... which He did teach them later, at the memorial - I mean, last supper. (tying in the words that he spoke to the crowd about eating his flesh and drinking his blood WITH the last supper)

Since I mentioned that I was probably going to the other hall for the Memorial, they also made a point of inviting me to the special talk "are you on the road to everlasting life', and the one woman said a few words about that, about making one's path straight, and I nodded in agreement, saying that of course if one is following Christ one is walking the straight path. He is the narrow path.

(I talk with my hands a lot, so I was miming that straight path with someone walking behind Him, also walking a straight path)

Maybe I'll zip over to their hall for that talk, if my Lord leads me to do so.

Then we said goodbye, and wished each other a good day.

And though it has taken me a while to write that out, it was probably only about five minutes or so.


**

Now, some of you might get a kick out of this: because like I said, I had just gotten up, and I did not realize who was at the door. As soon as I opened the door and stepped outside, I though, oh, man, my hair is standing on all ends (its shorter so it stands up on all ends in the morning, lol). I didn't even remember that I was wearing a Harley Davidson hoodie with a skull on the front until I noticed the one woman glance down at it during our talk.

Christ and God do not care about appearance of course. They care about what is inside. JW's (and not just them of course) care about appearances, the outside of the cup. But who knows? Maybe the "contrast" between some of the things I was able to quickly share - and what they may think my appearance should have said about me - will actually work to keep them remembering the conversation, give them pause to think.


Anyway, that was my morning so far, and I thought I would share.



Peace and love to you all,
your sister, servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:22 pm 
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Greetings, dear, dear Tams... peace to you... and thank you for sharing that, luv!

You are totally right: neither JAH nor Christ care what one is wearing, if anything at all. "Clothes don't make the man"... even if they are suits (LOLOL!)... any more the outward appearance of the flesh makes one "spiritual" in JAH's eyes. You spoke out of love and truth ABOUT the truth. Out of your HEART'S abundance. And it is the heart (and "kidneys") that JAH looks at. And you weren't afraid, but were of "good courage"... in spite of having mussed hair (cause that CAN be scary for a girl, right? LOLOL!).

I received one of those invites last weekend while out walking the pups, which of course led to a discussion, as well (no way was I gonna let THAT opportunity go by - LOLOL!). It lasted close to 20 minutes, though, because we went over a LOT (their comments just kept opening doors to more topics - LOLOL!). As usual, they were initially (overly) nice... then became cautious... then nervous... then hostile... then nervous... then tolerant... then surprised... then, nervous... then, I dunno, "defeated"... in what I shared... and, finally, as we ended, burst forth with a great "hail Mary" of "hopefulness" (in the WTBTS and their beliefs).

I chose not to share my encounter here at the time as ultimately it was the same 'ol, same 'ol. Eye-ee:

1. I was able to show them from their Bible where their teachings are wrong... on a number of topics;
2. They TOTALLY got what I shared;
3. But they were no way ready to immediately leave off following false prophets/false christs and follow the TRUE Christ and Fine Shepherd right then and there (and while some might say, "Well, THAT's understandable; no one does that!" I would counter that the Apostles did exactly that...).

Perhaps our dear Lord will follow-up with them at some point (or they with him), but I'd done my part: shared the GOOD news about Christ with them.

But I want to share this, because of the (erroneous and perhaps even blasphemous) connotation of the NWT:

The reason our discussion was able to as long as it did is because of where one "lead" woman went about "why Christ died for [us]." She tried to share with me what occurred in the Garden in Eden (and ya'll know I went all manner of "places" with her, once she went there and opened THAT door!), but she said that Adham/Eve sinned when they "ate from the tree in the middle of the garden."

Now, ya'll know pendantic ME, and so I said, "Which tree do you mean?" to which she responded, "Well, there was only ONE tree there." Uhhhhh-ohhhhhh...

When I tried to explain to her that there were actually two trees, well, you know where that led ("No, there was only one!"). I asked her which one, and she said the TKOGB, and I told her I agreed that one was there, TOO... "BUT," I said (of course - LOL!), "That was not the ONLY tree in the MIDDLE of the garden, right? The Tree of Life was there, as well, yes?" Well, she argued me down that THAT tree was NOT in the garden, only the TKOGB was and she was absolutely certain of that!

SOooooooo... I asked her to show me where it says there was only ONE tree. And she was MORE than happy to show me... of COURSE! Only... well...

She said, "We need to read in Genesis Chapter 2, FIRST!" I was totally game with that and so let her find the verse she wanted share with me (about the TKOGB being the ONLY tree in the middle of the garden). She opened her little gray Bible, found the Chapter, and started reading. Except... what she read, stated:

"Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad." Genesis 2:9

Wait. WAIT! What I heard her read was that only the Tree of LIFE was in the middle of the garden!? Of course, I knew better... or did I? Because isn't that how it reads?

"The tree of life in the middle of the garden... AND the tree of knowledge of good and bad."

So, okay, THAT made my heart almost leap from my chest. Why? Well, according to the NWT, not only was the Tree of Life the ONLY tree in the middle of the garden (or in at all, per my argument with the woman), BUT:

"... God has said about the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden: ‘You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” Genesis 3:3

Say, WHAT??! Read in the way the NWT sets it out... and if one goes not further, the implication COULD be that one should not eat of the Tree of LIFE, lest they die, let they become "like God, knowing good and bad"!!!

That was SO anathema to what I (believed I) had received from our dear Lord, that I almost didn't know what to say/think/do! But I held this in my thoughts to ask my Lord about later and returned to the topic at hand (how many trees, and that at least the tree of life WAS in the garden). Praise JAH, the question was resolved (for me, at least), because as I started to comment to the woman (that the tree of life WAS (also) in the garden), she said, "Oh, no, wait, that's the wrong verse. Let me find..." and then went to Chapter 3, and read:

"For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad." Genesis 3:5

OKAYY! That made me feel a bit better, at least at the time. I since read the verses in the NIV and Interlinear. The first gives a better indication that there were two trees and both were in the garden. The latter could be interpreted either way; remember, it is Hebrew translated from Greek translated from Aramaic... translated from an even more ancient Hebraic/Aramaic/Phoenician dialect.

SOoooo... I had to go with what our dear Lord told me:

The Tree of Life gives life.. and only life; one who eats from IT... will not die (eternally). That Tree is he himself (Isaiah 11:1, 10; John 6:48-58; 14:6; 15:1, 2, 5; Romans 6:23; 11:17-20; 15:12)

In contrast, the TKOGB grants [knowledge of] life AND death: one who eats from IT will know life... but will ALSO know death. Know good... AND bad.

And so, as you can see, just the one topic is a lot to write about/share. And we covered many topics.

And, ultimately, as I shared, they totally got (and I do mean understood) more of what I shared than not. A good 90%. BUT... they were not ready to follow Christ alone. We discussed that and they admitted they weren't. That they needed the "association." I told them I understood that, that they were not alone; most do... and would live as slaves as well as sell their souls due to that need... rather than live as free people (let alone give themselves over to Christ, who PURCHASED them with his BLOOD, as we were initially discussing - we went into that, too, the sacrifice and "why").

Looking forward to hearing any other experiences, if others have had them.

Peace to you all... and to your dear, dear households!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:56 pm 
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Wonderful conversations my sisters. Peace to you both this evening.

I have not seen any Jws in my apts for a while. I guess with all this rain, they must be somewhere else handing out invites. Not sure! But I have a new group of Mormon boys ( elders lol) next door actually and they have sought us out. Guess some of the previous ones didn't put us down as a " do not call" lol! Not that I asked to be but...from our conversations I thought they might give up on trying to convert us lol.
Had a conversation last weekend and they are supposed to come back. We'll see. I told them I was all about talking about Christ and what we know of what he said and did, but not interested in organized religion or man and their rules or doctrines.
Will see if they come and how it turns out.

Yes, we will be heading back up to our hometown to attend the memorial this year again. It is where most of our JW family still are.

Love, your sister and fellow servant of Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Greetings and peace to you Shel and Tammy,

Had a long post Sunday and lost it all. Frustrated!

it was raining nonstop this weekend and I was feeling soo over it. So hubby and I went to the mall to browse, being indoors and as we headed toward the entrance of Macy's, there was a long table, two magazine carts and two JW women. I had never seen them in this mall before so I was surprised.
As I walked passed, I heard our Lord say, " Dont you wanna go ask for your memorial invite?"

I walked into Macy's and thought and hesitated LOL for a minute and then said, " okay, yes! That will surely open a conversation up."

Figured it might be my only opportunity before memorial to share some truth about our Lord and partaking of him.

So, a lot of different quick subjects transpired but the very first thing I did was ask for an invitation. Asked the date and time and she let me know the times would vary depending of which congregation I attended.

Then I asked, " Why do YOU go?"
She proudly said and opened her bible ( itty bitty grey one none of us even with glasses could read)

To Luke 22:19, " He took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them saying, This means my body which is to be given in your behalf, KEEP DOING THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."

She said this is why I go. I asked her, " Keep doing WHAT?"
She said, going....celebrating...observing....

I asked her BUT is that what he said??? She looks puzzled.
I said for me this is why I go! And what I DO! Let me show you in John 6:48-59

I told her, I want to live forever! I want a resurrection! ( if I die) I want to remain in Union! He repeatedly said, ANYONE can partake!!!
I asked them, don't you both want to live forever???? Ooh yes, ooh yes.

She grinned. And then said NO it is not for everyone. I told her this is the problem my family and brother as an elder has had with me for doing this. She smiled and said I should talk to my brother since he's an elder he knows everything. ( lol what??????) I said, NO he doesn't. Supposedly doesn't only Jehovah and Jesus know everything? She said ooh yes that's right.

She smiled and said that partaking is only if you are anointed. Let me read to you the last supper and when Jesus was with his disciples and when he offered it to them.
So she read the verses in John which we all know and said the 12 ( lol thought it was only 11 lol) had Holy Spirit, were anointed and this is why they partook. ?????

I asked her did she remember when Holy Spirit was poured out? She said ooh yes and opened to Acts. Said it was then and then some spoke in tongues etc.

Sooooo, if Holy Spirit was not poured out until Petecost 33?.... Then how could those with Christ in the upper room already be anointed? Their anointing came after Christ was put to death, resurrected, walked the earth and ascended.
She looked confused. I was surprised and she said it was different with the 12. That they had Holy Spirit BEFORE. They had to. ???

But that is not what we read!

And John said repeatedly " ANYONE" can partake. Christ never said ONLY those that are anointed or he would have said it.

They were not going to buy it but then went to use the whole name card game plan. Knowing the true Gods name JEHOVAH made them special and they proclaim it.

I told her that JWS are not the only ones that use the name Jehovah.
Anyways, I had her open to the grey bible on page 1074& 1075 and read part of it ( told them to read it in spare time) and mentioned that even JWs now say and admit that they realize the name Jehovah is not exact. But because it has a long history in the English language and is acceptable they use it. That the exact pronunciation is NOT the most important factor but using it is. ???

But I mentioned that despite its not completely accurate and you believe it of utmost importance to use it, if you do not listen to and obey His voice and the ONE he says to listen TO.....what does it matter?
Look at Israel! They had his name. They were his people. And in Jeremiah 7 he tells them that they had profaned his name, trusting is fallacious words. Seeking after false Gods, NOT caring for the fatherless boys and widows. So who cares if you flaunt that name if you are not obedient to His son Christ and what he says.

And what he says to DO and KEEP doing in remembrance of him is....john 6:48-59
So for ME, this is why I will GO and why I will partake. He is my only savior and mediator!

She tried to share 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 as to drinking unworthily ( not being anointed)....
I Explained that verse cannot apply to that as JWs teach that when Paul wrote this there was only the ONE HOPE. The earthly hope according to the WTBS did not even become taught until 1935 as the early Christians were filling the number of anointed ( 144,000 lol) so the unworthines did not mean one would have had an earthly hope over a heavenly hope.

Not sure she even grasped it but anyways....

She was getting wise to the fact that I was so familiar with verses and she starting shutting down and didn't want me to open the bible. Told me to read the literature on the table that it would help explain what she couldn't.
I told her I had read most all of it and I felt as did Solomon in Ecclesiates 12:12. They are wearisome to my flesh! That if one had Christ and listened to his voice, we do not need what is written and confused by man. Since she had agreed earlier that he was " alive and speaks and that his sheep would hear his voice."

So I started to wrap it up, thanked them for their time and asked the older sister was she a new JW (since she didn't seem very knowledgeable). She said she had been a witness for over 40 years.
I actually told her I was surprised to hear that since she could not answer so many basic questions scripturally. Oops ...

Anywho, a few other things mentioned, nothing major. But wanted to highlight the main subject and that is the upcoming memorial. And emphasized to them that I cannot " pass over" his body and blood. For me that would be denying him.

So, it was a wonderful rainy day Sunday. And very grateful that I was able to have the opportunity to share, maybe plant a seed for our Lord. If not then just doing out of obedience and love for our Lord.


Love and peace to you all, your sister and fellow servant of Christ, kim


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:04 am 
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GOOD for YOU, dear Kimmie (peace to you, luvee!). I know it sometimes seems like, "Oh, why bother"... or "I don't really feel like talking with them - they won't get it/change, etc."... but I tell you, when we listen to the Master and the DO what HE say ("Don't you wanna go ask for your memorial invite?")... look at what transpires! Regardless of whether THEY hear... or refrain!... WE get the opportunity to herald the GOOD news that is/about Christ: that he gave his flesh and blood so that ANYONE make eat and drink of it... and live FOREVER! EVEN if they have to be resurrected (vs. changed) - the opportunity is available to ANYONE.

Now, the "sister" was right: it is not for EVERYONE... because not EVERYONE will avail themselves OF it. And, as we know, many are called - few are chosen. BUT... EVERYONE is among those called... and ANYONE can be among those chosen.

How, though, will they know these things unless someone is SENT to tell them? "Don't you wanna go ask for YOUR Memorial invite?" You could have said, "Ahh, no, Lord, not today." Or, again, "Why bother?" But you didn't. You did as he said... and so the "blessing" will be for YOU, regardless of whether either of those ladies heard.

I am with you, though, sorta, and then again, maybe not so much... being surprised that someone who has been a JW for 40 years can't explain things. That's because they don't KNOW what they believe! Oh, sure, they know what "the Watchtower/Society says." But I am not sure they all BELIEVE what that harlot says. They just don't know how to REFUTE any of it. And when they encounter someone who can... fear overtakes them. Because, well, "Where ELSE are we to go (away) to?" So, I don't think we can expect more from them.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that and SO glad you were able to!

Peace to you and to your dear, dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

P.S. Take your invite with you... and hold it in your hand. That should stop those who might want to ask "What are THEY doing here?" You are there... because you were invited to be. LOLOLOL! Peace, chile'!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:20 am 
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Thank you both for sharing these things! Loved both accounts.

I forget sometimes what some of the beliefs are from jws. Only one tree in the center of the garden? But the text says that there are two! And from the woman Kim spoke to... it is also even written that Christ breathed holy spirit out onto the apostles AFTER He was resurrected. So none of them had holy spirit at the time they ate and drank of Him.


I'm not sure they all believe exactly the same either - or even always know what it is they're supposed TO believe; which is understandable, considering how often things can change with their 'new light', and how many different things those changes must affect other beliefs. The Spirit reminds me of that saying, 'what a tangled web we weave...."



May they be given eyes to see this web for what it is: a lie.
May they - and anyone who wishes - be given ears to hear the Truth - Christ Jaheshua, Himself.



Peace to you both, and to your houses,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Quote:
She tried to share 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 as to drinking unworthily ( not being anointed)....

Ugh. I hate that they have twisted this. Since they teach that all of the first century Christians were anointed, then what in the world was Paul talking about? Surely, none of them were questioning their anointing, were they?!?!?!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:51 pm 
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leaving_quietly wrote:
Quote:
She tried to share 1 Corinthians 11:27-28 as to drinking unworthily ( not being anointed)....

Ugh. I hate that they have twisted this. Since they teach that all of the first century Christians were anointed, then what in the world was Paul talking about? Surely, none of them were questioning their anointing, were they?!?!?!



Yes, it makes no sense at all that Paul could possibly have meant drinking unworthily could refer to what the wts states. No sense at all.

Leaving (or anyone) do you have a reference to where they state that the first century Christians were anointed? I wouldn't mind having that reference on hand.


Peace to you, and yours (and good to hear from you!),
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:04 pm 
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There's a plethora of material stating that first century Christians were anointed. However, it's hard to find one that says that ALL of them were. Note this reference, though... (I had to search for where they said the Greek Scriptures were primarily written for the anointed.)

Quote:
11 In the decades after the first members of the congregation of anointed Christians were chosen, Jehovah saw fit to have a permanent record made of the earthly ministry of Jesus as well as His dealings with and counsel to first-century anointed Christians. Jehovah thus added the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures to the already existing inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Hebrew Scriptures were written in the first place for the fleshly nation of Israel during the time that they had a special relationship with God. The Christian Greek Scriptures were written primarily for “the Israel of God,” those anointed as brothers of Christ and spiritual sons of God. Of course, that in no way suggests that non-Israelites could not derive great benefit from studying the Hebrew Scriptures. Similarly, Christians who are not anointed with holy spirit derive immeasurable benefits from studying and living according to the counsel found in the Christian Greek Scriptures.—Read 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

12 First-century Christians were declared righteous and anointed with holy spirit for the purpose of enabling them to receive their heavenly inheritance. Their anointing did not elevate them to kingship over fellow anointed Christians while still on earth. Evidently, some early Christians lost sight of that fact and began seeking undue prominence among their brothers in the congregation. As a result, Paul was moved to ask: “You men already have your fill, do you? You are rich already, are you? You have begun ruling as kings without us, have you? And I wish indeed that you had begun ruling as kings, that we also might rule with you as kings.” (1 Cor. 4:8) Therefore, Paul reminded anointed ones of his day: “Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy.”—2 Cor. 1:24.
w08 1/15 p. 22 pars. 11, 12


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:09 pm 
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Quote:
what in the world was Paul talking about?


Greetings, dear LQ, and peace to you! As you've probably seen in other discussions on this topic, the issue wasn't even with regard to the anointing - it was with regard to judging, having received an anointing ("Receive holy spirit. Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven..."). If one eats and drinks while "unclean"... they do so in judgment "against" themselves ("With the same judgment that you judge, you will BE judged.").

At that time, the early Body members who came on that night had either eaten already (so that they didn't have to eat with those they disdained)... and so didn't want to partake of the meal prepared for them (which included much more than just bread and wine - remember, there was lamb, bitter greens, etc.). Others came and ate as if they had never eaten before, greedily taking more than they needed for the occasion, not concerned with sharing with those THEY disdained. Both did so... because they had issues with/disdained others also present.

What Paul was saying was that they needed to "cleanse the INSIDE of the cup" - scrutinize themselves so as to discern whether they had something THEY needed forgiveness for... or to forgive another for... and if not, then eat. BUT, eating in discernment of the bread representing the flesh of our dear Lord (and so, not just some sundry pieces of bread), and the wine his blood (and not just some liquid refreshment).

If they DID have something amiss, something that prevented them from wanting to share in the mean with EVERYONE present (i.e., something "against" a brother... or knew of something a brother had "against" THEM)... they should have first done what our dear Lord said: went and made peace [with their brother] BEFORE offering their gift at the altar. If they don't, then whatever "judgment" they are holding in their heart against a brother will be held against them at some point.

That point could be in the recreation, but I have seen over and over again that most often it's within only a matter of years.

We have discussed this topic before, in various posts. Here are some links, in case others are curious and haven't seen the information, yet:

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=887&p=23403&hilit=eat+and+drink+unworthily#p23403
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=887&hilit=eat+and+drink+unworthily
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=1575&p=34583&hilit=eat+and+drink+unworthily#p34583
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2519&p=45199&hilit=eat+and+drink+unworthily#p45199

Some links may be inaccessible to some, unfortunately, but there's plenty in those that are accessible to all members and guests.

Again, peace to you... and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:16 am 
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Thanks, Shelby. I already knew all that. I was just showing the silliness of applying the "unworthily" part to that of being anointed since that was never even a question. Just stupid stuff.

The only other reason they would have for not partaking is because they believe that they are not part of the new covenant.

Quote:
w10 3/15 pp. 26-27 pars. 12-16
12 Jehovah foretold a new arrangement for his people when he said: “This is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days. . . . I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.” (Jer. 31:31-33) By means of this new covenant, Jehovah’s promise to Abraham was to have a glorious and lasting fulfillment.—Read Genesis 22:18.

13 Jesus referred to this new covenant on the night before his death when he said: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.” (Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25) Are all Christians included in this new covenant? No. Some, like the apostles who drank of that cup that evening, are participants in the new covenant. Jesus made another covenant with them to rule together with him in his Kingdom. (Luke 22:28-30) They will share with Jesus in his Kingdom.—Luke 22:15, 16.

14 What of those who will live on earth under his Kingdom? They are beneficiaries of the new covenant. (Gal. 3:8, 9) Although not participants, they ‘lay hold’ of this covenant by submitting to its requirements, just as was foretold by the prophet Isaiah: “The foreigners that have joined themselves to Jehovah to minister to him and to love the name of Jehovah, in order to become servants to him, all those keeping the sabbath in order not to profane it and laying hold of my covenant, I will also bring them to my holy mountain and make them rejoice inside my house of prayer.” Jehovah then says: “For my own house will be called even a house of prayer for all the peoples.”—Isa. 56:6, 7.



Because of their belief that most of them are not part of the new covenant, they believe they are not authorized to partake.

Quote:
w88 2/1 p. 31: Questions From Readers
Why do so few of Jehovah’s Witnesses partake of the bread and the wine at the yearly celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal?

In considering that ancient experience in the wilderness, recall who had come out of Egypt into the wilderness. It was ‘the sons of Israel numbering six hundred thousand able-bodied men on foot, besides little ones, and a vast mixed company.’ (Exodus 12:37, 38; 16:13-18) This “mixed company” included Egyptians who were married to Israelites and other Egyptians who had thrown in their lot with Israel. Both the Israelites and the “mixed company” needed manna to stay alive. Did the “mixed company,” though, have the same prospects as the Israelites? No, they did not. Even though they could worship among the Israelites and could hope to enter the Promised Land, they could never be kings or priests under the Law covenant. So eating the literal manna in the wilderness did not give everyone the same prospects.

This is a distinction to remember as you reflect on what Jesus said to his disciples about a year after he spoke the words at John 6:51-54. On this later occasion, Jesus was describing a new practice involving actual bread and wine that was to symbolize his flesh and blood. While he was instituting the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus said to his close followers: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.” To the same small group of apostles, he added: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.”—Luke 22:20, 28-30.

Observe from these later words that the ones who were to eat the actual bread and drink the actual wine as emblems symbolizing Jesus’ body and blood were the disciples in “the new covenant.” Such ones would also be in another covenant, one that Jesus makes with them so that they could share rulership ‘in his kingdom.’ Clearly, Jesus was here referring to those who would be ‘made a kingdom and priests to our God, to rule as kings over the earth.’ (Revelation 5:10) In the first century, God began selecting the 144,000 who would share in the heavenly Kingdom. Christians in Corinth were of that group, for they were described as ones who had “been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones.” (1 Corinthians 1:2; compare Romans 1:7; 8:15-17.) Such “holy ones” were to share in the Lord’s Evening Meal, partaking with appreciation of the emblematic bread and also the wine meaning “the new covenant by virtue of [his] blood.”—1 Corinthians 11:23-26.

Today there remains alive on earth only a small remnant of those chosen by God for heavenly life. Only such ones who are in “the new covenant” are authorized to partake of the emblems, the bread and the wine, during the annual Memorial celebration.



There are holes in their doctrine here, as we know, but I needed to re-research this, as I do every year this time of year.
- Trying to make the old Law Covenant fit the New Covenant.
Also, no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the wineskins and it will be spilled out and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins. - Luke 5:37,38
For since the priesthood is being changed, it becomes necessary to change the Law as well. - Heb 7:12
In his saying “a new covenant,” he has made the former one obsolete. Now what is obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away. - Heb 8:13

- Saying the new covenant is only for the 144,000
But now in union with Christ Jesus, you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself. - Eph 2:13-16
Why would God make the two groups (Jews and Gentiles) one, then turn around and create TWO MORE GROUPS???

Also, nowhere in the scriptures do we find any mention of the new covenant being only for the 144,000. Nowhere. I say again, NOWHERE.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:35 am 
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May you ALL have peace this day as our Lord gives it:

“Did the “mixed company,” though, have the same prospects as the Israelites? No, they did not. Even though they could worship among the Israelites and could hope to enter the Promised Land, they could never be kings or priests under the Law covenant. So eating the literal manna in the wilderness did not give everyone the same prospects.”

This statement above is totally wrong!

The “mixed company” went with Israel into the Red Sea. Upon exiting the Red Sea they wandered with Israel for the same 40 years. Upon their entrance into the promised land they were entirely assimilated with Israel—just like a convert/proselyte BECOMES one with them. Did not Paul write in one of his letters to the Corinthians, “They ALL ate the same spiritual food, they ALL drank the same spiritual drink, they were ALL baptized into Moses/Christ, etc., etc., etc. Even the animals drank from the same spiritual rock. Do you think the animals didn’t eat of the manna that was provided? They ALL (all means all) ate of the same spiritual food. The “mixed company” became ONE with Israel—became Israel. Anyone from among the nations could convert to the worship of Jah and by the outward manifestation—circumcision—they became worshippers of Jah and welcomed into a covenant relationship with Jah.

As for the animals . . . “Let ALL living, breathing things, praise Jah,” the Psalm says. They too are in a covenant with Jah. They too were saved and provided for during the exodus from Egypt, the wandering in the wilderness, the entrance into the land of Canaan, which became the land of Israel.

The above statement is false in a number of ways—a kind of red herring. Where it says, “they could never be kings and priests under the Law covenant.” How many Israelites BECAME kings and priests? This statement diverts one’s attention to the real. Israel, all of Israel were to BECOME kings and priests at some future time. Unfortunately, they failed.

Was not Rahab a non-Israelite? And did not she become an ancestress of Christ himself?

“Come! Takes Life’s Water—FREE.

--Armand


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Quote:
Where it says, “they could never be kings and priests under the Law covenant.” How many Israelites BECAME kings and priests?


They are, of course, talking about foreigners in Israel, and WTBTS bases this statement on Deut 17:14,15: "When you enter the land that Jehovah your God is giving you and you have taken possession of it and are living in it, and you say, ‘Let me appoint a king over myself like all the nations around me,’  in that case, you should without fail appoint a king whom Jehovah your God chooses. You should appoint a king from among your brothers. You are forbidden to appoint over yourself a foreigner who is not your brother."

As for priests, what's idiotic about that statement is that only Levites were permitted to be priests. None of the other tribes were. The long-term promise, as you said, was that the entire nation was to be a nation of priests (Ex. 19:6)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Continuing where you left off in Ephesians, Chapter 2, dear LQ (peace to you, dear brother!):

"And he came and declared the good news of peace to you who were far off, and peace to those near, because through him we, both peoples, have free access to the Father by one spirit.

"So you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ [Jesus] himself is the foundation cornerstone. In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together,+ is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah. In union with him you too are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit."



And to add to what you shared, dear Armand (peace to you, as well, dear brother!):

This is the statute of the Passover: No foreigner may eat of it. But if someone has a slave man who was purchased with money, you should circumcise him. Only then may he share in eating it. A settler and a hired worker may not eat of it. In one house it is to be eaten. You must not take any of the meat outside of the house, and you must not break any of its bones. All the assembly of Israel are to celebrate it. If a foreigner resides with you and he wants to celebrate the Passover to JaHVeh, every male of his must be circumcised. Then he may come near to celebrate it, and he will become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. One law will apply for the native and for the foreigner who is residing among you.” Exodus 12:43-49

Right there, in black and white, in their own Bible. But, then, what can one expect of those who WILL not SEE? There is no "Braille" for that kind of blindness.

Peace to both of you dear, dear brothers... and may JAH bless!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Right on, Shelby!

This bit about partaking should NEVER EVER have been an issue. What a stupid, stupid thing to get all holier than thou about. There is NOT ONE SINGLE INJUNCTION against it. Our Lord was simple in his explanation: "Keep doing this in remembrance of me."


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