xjwsforChrist

I agree. Paul, but remember that this is not what Zoe is saying. This is what she is gleaning from what she's being told.

I've known God all my life and believe me, He does NOT behave like this. Those making people feel inadequate for not hearing this or that or "getting answers" are doing Him a very great disservice.

Poor Zoe has enough to deal with.

Tammy writes of conflict and hubbub. You have a conflict if you want to, Tammy. I think I can count three, maybe four others who will cheer you on. The rest of this forum, the silent ones especially, are not interested.

Perhaps you should understand something about me, Char. I am not interested in anyone cheering me on.

I am interested, however, in ensuring that my faith, and my intent, and my actual doings, are not misrepresented... in order for some to use that misrepresentations as an attempt to lead some away from the Spirit of Christ, and the truth that He does speak, and one CAN put faith in Him, by putting faith in what HE says and teaches.

Peace,
tammy

Thank you for the answers you gave Chariklo as to how you feel we should pray and how it works for you. I think your understanding is more like what I have understood it to be since I left the WT.

Thank you Shelby, JustMom, Tammy and Paul for your explanations and thoughts directed at my questions. I see we all are in agreement that we pray to JAH through Jesus.

I also see that their is a difference between prayer which is a one sided conversation and hearing Christ speak to you. This is a new thing to me and so i am reading and listening with interest and an open mind. I will try and pray that my ears and eyes are open to understand this.

I truely find this to be of great interest but have to admit that if I heard a actual audible voice I would probably be scared to death. Is this a silent voice like a thought popping into your head or an actual voice that you can know it's not your thoughts. I think I asked this before but don't remember now the exact answers, it's probably over on that thread you mentioned Tammy so I will go look at that. I am skeptical but I am also not very spiritual right now so my heart is probably not in the right place yet.

There may be some stuff on that thread about that Zoe. But probably more on the threads about hearing in Spirit, and hearing Christ, and I think another one is about hearing God.

But you said something very significant:



This is one reason He speaks quietly. So quietly that we might mistake his voice for our conscience. So as not to scare people to death, or to our harm. So as not to force Himself upon us.

What He does out of love for us... some call neglect and/or abandonment, accusing Him of not caring.

That is very sad.

I will look for and bump those threads for you.

Peace,
tammy

I bumped three that I could find, Zoe; hope those help.


Love and peace to you!

tammy

I am not sure how you got this out of the discussion, dear P (peace to you!)... and not sure why another is trying to assert that it was so. The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, would not arbitrarily ignore ANY prayer. But I am now directed by our dear Lord to ask you: what OTHER "way" is there besides him? And if one is not going THROUGH him... he who said that NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH him... how is one "entering" TO the Father?

And he has directed me to ask you: DOES the MOST HOLY One of Israel ignore prayers? If so, whose? How about those who pray to others gods? Is He listening to them? And he said to ask you... most particularly... what about Israel, God's own CHOSEN people? Did He ever ignore THEIR prayers? If so, when... and why?



Of COURSE it is, dear one. And so, as Christ said: out of HEART'S abundance... the MOUTH speaks! So, our WORDS show what's IN our hearts. Or... what's NOT in them. Yes? That's not to say we must USE (a voice with words), no. Sometimes we don't even KNOW what to say... and so our SPIRIT speaks... groans... FOR us, yes? But when we DO use words, should they not be the right ones... to the extent we KNOW the right ones?

Can we truly have been told... and then ignore that... and then say, "Well, I didn't KNOW!"? That's an excuse for when we ARE in ignorance. What of when we no longer are??



I cannot see where ANYONE said that. NO ONE. What has happened here? Did anyone post a thread saying, "Hey, folks! You MUST pray like I'm saying you must!" No. I posted to show the difference between prayer and conversation (I don't pray to you/I converse with you... and notice, who have you heard saying, "I pray WITH God"... versus "I pray TO God"?)... the one-way versus the two-way. At some point, a dear one asked questions for clarification... which was given her... ALONG WITH SUPPORT.

NOW, we're into God being weak and petty... because He has REQUIREMENTS as to how to approach Him?? Dear one, we have mere MEN who have even GREATER requirements as to how to approach THEM... if indeed, one even CAN! I can't go straight in and speak to Mr. Obama - I couldn't even get near the front door! Yet, there is a problem that we are asked to go THROUGH the DOOR that the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel had DESIGNATED we go through?? And that DOOR has set up the way to "ring" so AS to gain access? What IS that?

This is what our dear Lord mean when he asked whether he would find faith in the earth when he returned. We will turn SOMERSAULTS to impress mere men... kiss their feet, their hands, their arses... their rings... but have a PROBLEM coming to the MOST HOLY One of Israel the "way" HE asks us to? Which is through His Son... and NO OTHER WAY?

WHO... are WE... to even have an issue with such a thing? I truly don't get it. I don't.

He's not asking us to climb up on a torture pole and be pierced. He is simply saying, "Look, I've sent you someone, my representative. Listen to him and if you need to speak to me, go through him. He will tell you how to do that." Then that rep says, "Look, you don't need to bother the Father with your petty requests (and, in the grand scheme of things, yes, MOST of our requests ARE petty!). Just give HIM the glory and honor, ask for HIS will to be done and for Him to keep you from tempatation... do it in private so that you don't appear to be trying to look all righteous in front of MEN... 'cause it's really HIM you're concern with thinking you're sincere, right, and not your friends/family/peers? So, just go in your room, shut the door, give Him His props... and then let ME know what you need and either I'll give it to you... or, if I can't (and that's rare)... I'll ask Him to give it to you. And He will... because He'll do it for ME. So, either way... you'll get what you ask for. Cool? Can you DO that? Not asking for anything else."

But, no... nope. Not us. Not hard-headed, hard-hearted, stiff-necked "Israel". Oh no. No, HE must do it OUR way: "Who are YOU, God, to ask US to do ANYTHING as to you?! Don't you know... WE are the special ones? YOU made US... so YOU serve US! YOU are all-powerful; WE are puny and weak. So rather than asking US to do ANYTHING for YOU... YOU answer OUR prayers and take care of OUR needs! What? Observe your "protocols" and go through your Son? Who do you think you ARE? GOD?? Well, you might be God... but I don't answer to YOU - YOU... answer to ME! So, now, I will APPROACH you any kind of way I WANT to... and through ANY means I WISH to! I MIGHT go through your Son and Door... and I might NOT! But since YOU are GOD... and I'm just the weak, puny, sinful, insignificant "thing" YOU created... and so it's not even MY fault that I AM weak, puny, and insignificant, it's YOUR fault... YOU are OBLIGATED to answer and respond to ME... REGARDLESS of how I "approach" you. Because, well, after all... YOU are love, ain't'cha? So, show ME some LOVE... and ANSWER my prayer!"

O... M... G. Earthling man. No wonder He wanted to wipe Israel out and make a nation solely of Moses. No wonder certain spirit beings hate us. Even THEY go before Him... PROPERLY... and take their station... PROPERLY... and show themselves in subjection to the MOST Holy One of Israel... PROPERLY. EVEN those who have constituted themselves His enemies do so! Why? Because even if they don't love Him... even if they don't follow Him... even if they have little regard for Him as a Person... they certainly RESPECT Him... as the MOST Holy One of Israel! The One who COULD... with one exhalation... completely wipe us ALL out, flesh AND spirit!

I am just... I dunno. I just don't get it. I do NOT get how we think we can tell the MOST Holy One, JAH of Armies, how it is that we "will" approach and be heard... by Him... and just utterly ignore what HE says we must do... and then get all up in arms that He MIGHT not listen. I just do NOT get that.

I'm sorry... but my heart and spirit just felt... squeezed. Stabbed. Almost stomped on. Only, I don't think it was MY heart... or spirit...

[/quote]

What you may be missing, dear one... you and perhaps some others... is that He doesn't want to BE known... by any who don't WANT to know Him... as He truly is. Which is the problem: people want to know God... and Christ... as THEY perceive them to be. But not as they are. As they truly... and plainly... are.

Which is why most don't. Regardless of... and contrary to... whatever they may believe.

Why whine and whine, as humans, about how people are unwilling to "accept" us "as we are." Are we not often hypocritically guilty of the exact same thing? Yet, we continually try to make God... and Christ... what we want THEM to be... rather than accept THEM as they are: spirit beings who only ask a very few things of us. Yet, it is always... always... too much.

Praise JAH... He sent His Son for those who can see this... and WANT to try and change it... by putting faith IN that One He sent.

I truly don't mean to be harsh here (my passion has risen up, just as perhaps yours did), but I don't think you truly know what you've just said... and perhaps done. I hope you do, though, and think hard about it. Because you have just scared me, for you... for all of us (mankind). Truly. Praise JAH... that He DOES remember we are just dust. Just dust... yet, saying what we will or won't do when it comes to communicating with God. Lord... save us.

Peace.

A slave of Christ,

SA

Bumping this because I agree, and my spirit agrees with Shelby's final post on this thread. Absolutely spot on. Who do we think we are?? Sake.

Makes me ashamed and heartbroken for us all.

Peace

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Char said "Tammy writes of conflict and hubbub. You have a conflict if you want to, Tammy. I think I can count three, maybe four others who will cheer you on. The rest of this forum, the silent ones especially, are not interested."

Along with myself, I personally know others that prayed to know truth as a JW. And mine and their prayers were answered. Our heavenly Father heard the truth and the crying out in our hearts. Just because some may read this information and not comment please do not put us, them in your boat. Please do not assume to know my interest.

Finalcall