xjwsforChrist

Hello everyone,

I hope you don't mind my asking questions here, but I really am seeking an answer/criticism.

I realize that this is a hotly debated topic and I have no intention of starting a posting war as I have seen on other places. I really just want to know if I am understanding the Hebrew correctly or if any of you have any insight specific to these passages and any relating passages.

They are the Leviticus passages that are said to be anti-homosexual.

22 “‘You must not lie down with a male in the same way that you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable act. (Leviticus 18:22)
When I look at the Hebrew Interlinear found in the Strong's Concordance. The broken English (transliteration) reads as follows:

"lie down, not, lie down, upon/near/with, male-bed-woman. He/she/it abominable/ritually unclean"
Now my first question is, in Hebrew does male-bed-woman signify a male-woman relationship unified in bed, in other words, a marriage? Would the command read that you, the Levite or son of Israel, cannot lie down with a married couple?

13 “‘If a man lies down with a male the same as one lies down with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing. They should be put to death without fail. Their own blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Looking at the Hebrew Interlinear in the Strong's Concordance says,
"If/who man/human lie with/near male-bed-woman, double/two/twice make/do/accomplish abomination/ritually unclean. Die, die, die, blood."

I have a couple of questions here. Is die repeated three times to identify how many people are to die? Is the crime against engaging in what we call a threesome or maybe violating someone's marriage arrangement?

Responses are appreciated.

Greetings, peace to you, and welcome, Geri -

I cannot say as to what others here might respond, but only as to myself and as I receive from my dear Lord, JaH'eShua, who is the Christ, the HOLY (Spirit - 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18; 1 John 2:1, 2; Revelation 1:18; 2:1, 7, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18, 29; 3:1, 6, 7, 13, 14, 22) and “Son” (Issue/Get) of the “Father” (Begetter), JaH'VeH, who is the MOST HOLY (Spirit – John 4:24; Revelation 21:22; Exodus 26:33).

You ask:



It appears your concern is as to more than two persons engaging in sex at the same time. And while that might be an issue (which I will address in a second), the verse is not counting participants but emphasizing the extent to which the one so engaging must "die" - Meaning, not, say, beaten into a coma (and so, "braindead") but die as in dead in breath, blood, and seed, all forms of "life" within the one. No breath, no life. No blood, no life. No seed, no (future/progenerated) life.

In the situation you mention, a threesome, under the Law Covenant, someone would be violating "something" (i.e., the union would be at least three men, two men and one woman, three women, or two women and one man). And so, if one is under that Covenant, well...

Because I belong to Christ, however, I don't really concern myself with what other consenting adults do in private, whether it be two, three, or more, and for at least 3 reasons:

One, I am no longer under the Law Covenant (which you quote here), having accepted the invitation from Christ to be joined to him and, as a result, being released from that code (mediated between Israel and the Father by Moses and ratified by the blood of bulls), so that I am free to follow Christ's code, the NEW Covenant, which he ratified with his own blood, mediates between the Father and those who belong to him... and is fulfilled in love. For the Father, one's brother, one's neighbor, strangers, and even one's enemy.

Two, Christ gave his life and blood to release ME from eternal death as the result of the sins my spirit committed (and may commit still - 1 John 2:1, 2), most times (but not all) by means of my flesh; and

Three, Christ directed ME that I am not to judge ANYONE for in so doing I WILL be judged myself in the same way (Matthew 7:1-5) and so for ME, it's best that I keep my gaze on him (John 3:14; Numbers 21:7-9) and my focus as to sin on myself.

So, the only one's conduct I have concern for is my own.

That is not to say I wouldn't be concerned if I believed someone I loved was in spiritual danger (either by sin of the spirit OR sin of the flesh), but if I were I would follow the Christ's directions on how to handle that (Matthew 18:15-18), doing so as kindly and mildly as possible, always IN LOVE, and then leaving off the matter as between him and them and none of my business. I am always the servant, not the judge - while there is the promise of ruling with Christ, our part of that rulership has not yet begun and so it's not up to us to run ahead (of him).

I share all of this to state that while some here can tell you what the triple emphasis on "die" means, few if any of us here would tell you that such persons should die/be put to death. Almost everyone here has been set free from that kind of thinking/judgementalness, if not set entirely free from the Law Covenant (some here still have a toe/finger/thumb on parts of it, unfortunately, and so we try to remind one another not to "go there").

But, yeah, as to what "Moses" meant, it was utter death of the physical person - no more breath (which all living creatures possess, whether it be via air or water)... no more blood (dead things don't bleed - yes they can bleed out but that occurs only at the injury/opening; if punctured elsewhere on the body, no blood comes out), and no more capacity to procreate (no more "seed"). Fully dead, physicallyy-speaking.

It does NOT mean death of the spirit, though, the "man"/"person" ALL living things are on the inside, inside the "vessel/cup" that is there physical body (be it spirit being, human, animal, plant, fungus, etc.). Once the physical body dies, the spirit... consciousness that is the person... goes to "sleep" - become unconscious.

And remains in sleep... until it is resurrected. And neither resurrection, the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6) or the general resurrection (Revelation 20:11-15; Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14) has occurred, yet. So, almost everything that has died is now in a [temporary] state of unconsciousness.

I hope that helps and I hope you hear when Christ, who is the HOLY (Spirit) says to you:

"'Come! Take my [Life's] water... which is the Father's breath, blood, and seed... His life force, holy spirit... which life force was put into the Son...and the Son puts into whomever he chooses (John 15:16)... free!'"

John 7:37-39; 10:27; Revelation 3:17-20; 22:17

Again, peace to you!

Greetings, peace to you Geri and welcome to you as well,


Everything that dear Aguest shared with you my spirit bears witness with, peace to you my sister.


Those that belong to Christ listen to and follow what he says one must do and they keep their gaze on him and him only. It is He that gave His blood/ life on our behalf and it is by our union with him that we walk by faith love and obedience not judging so as not to be judged.

John 6:48-59

We remember that “the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ.”

Not one single person can say they are without sin/error/ transgression. Therefore death is our wage.

Our Lord even said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.” John 8:1-8

So for me as well, the best thing is to stay concerned with myself. I am continually grateful for the love mercy and undeserved kindness that my Lord JAHeshua has shown me and my household every single day.

And thankful for His new covenant, one that releases those bound by guilt and fear, it forgives, is merciful,
compassionate, does not judgement and shows love even to one’s enemy.


Peace to you, and welcome here,
Kim

Testing - been unable to post replies

Thank you so much both of you. I am so sorry I have not been able to reply sooner. I kept getting an error every time I tried to reply. I hope this one goes through as well.

That you AGuest and Justmom for your thoughts. I appreciate the lack of debating/arguing and am happy with the responses. I will look into it more as this is interesting.

I saw an older post about the end of the world and had a question. When I find it I will post my reply question there.

Until then have a good night/morning/day wherever you are. Thank you for the peace and may you both have peace as well