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 Post subject: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Greetings: May you have Peace!

I was having this conversation today with someone about the neutering of pets. They were for it, I was against it. For the longest time now, I have been against the neutering of pets. It never felt right to me. Some, but not all, on the opposite side of this argument, however, can be very vehement, argumentative, even downright nasty about it and say that people like me are being irresponsible and reckless, etc. I have been called some very mean and unkind, nasty things by those holding a view opposite to mine.

In this conversation, I presented the argument to this person that his current pet had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, and their parents had parents, back to the creation. . . . In neutering your pet, you have just deliberately broken the line of descent, stopped the line of descent for generations and for generations to come. I made it clear to this person that I wasn’t talking about physical defects in a person and/or pets such as bad health, nor was I talking about such things as barrenness in a woman (for whatever physical reason) nor sterility in men (for whatever physical reason). I was talking about the deliberate choosing so as not to allow the continued procreation of our pets. And the thought/question occurred to me: “What is God’s view of this issue?” IMMEDIATELY (faster than immediately) the Master responded (with crystal clarity) and directed me to the very first chapter of Genesis, as follows:

On the fifth and sixth days:

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds [b][b]increase [/b]on the earth.” [/b]23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

And then in Genesis 9:

Then God said to Noah, 16 “Come out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and their wives. 17 Bring out every kind of living creature that is with you—the birds, the animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground—so they can multiply on the earth and be fruitful and increase in number on it.”

And then what is recorded at Leviticus 22:17-25:

17 The Lord said to Moses, 18 “Speak to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites and say to them: ‘If any of you—whether an Israelite or a foreigner residing in Israel—presents a gift for a burnt offering to the Lord, either to fulfill a vow or as a freewill offering, 19 you must present a male without defect from the cattle, sheep or goats in order that it may be accepted on your behalf. 20 Do not bring anything with a defect, because it will not be accepted on your behalf. 21 When anyone brings from the herd or flock a fellowship offering to the Lord to fulfill a special vow or as a freewill offering, it must be without defect or blemish to be acceptable. 22 Do not offer to the Lord the blind, the injured or the maimed, or anything with warts or festering or running sores. Do not place any of these on the altar as a food offering presented to the Lord. 23 You may, however, present as a freewill offering an ox or a sheep that is deformed or stunted, but it will not be accepted in fulfillment of a vow. 24 [b]You must not offer to the Lord an animal whose testicles are bruised, crushed, torn or cut. You must not do this in your own land, 25 and you must not accept such animals from the hand of a foreigner and offer them as the food of your God. They will not be accepted on your behalf, because they are deformed and have defects.’”


I realize that what is written in Leviticus is Old Law and that Christians are not under the Old Law. I get that. But I asked a question and all the above was the crystal clear response I received. I am not telling anyone to do or to think anything or anyway. I am just writing about what occurred in my conversation that I was having today with a particular individual and the response I received from my Lord. And I’m sharing it. That’s it, that’s all.

To One and All: Come! Take Life’s Water—Free!

May you have Peace, as our Lord provides it.

--Armand


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:21 am 
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Well I read your post Armand and I see things differently. I think it would be a individual decision based on a person's conscience and economic situation also. I don't let my pets run around loose or without supervision so I would not have to be afraid of them getting someone else's pet pregnant or of them getting pregnant. However the behaviour of pets especially female cats when in heat and what they cause the males to react like disturbed me so I had them neutered. Once I did that they were more pet like LOL.

In the case of my dogs, I have never had a female dog but the males were always humping my leg or someone else's and I didn't want them trying to run off when they got a whiff of a female in heat. So I always neutered my dogs before a year old and they were more pet like.

My Mom had female dogs and she would not neuter them because of her JW conscience so she had to put diapers on the dog when the dog was in heat and not take her out for walks then because of being attacked by male dogs. One of her dogs got out and got pregnant and then she had to deal with getting homes for unwanted puppies.

My conscience would not tell me to not neuter even though I have read the OT scriptures you quoted. It just doesn't seem to me to be referring to pets in this day and age. Just my way of seeing it.


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Hi, Zoe: May you have Peace, as our Lord provides it. I hope all is well.

It’s perfectly all right to see things differently. Not a problem “here.” And I agree with you in that ‘it would be an individual’s decision’. . . .

What I quoted from Leviticus is the Old Law. WE are not under the Old Law. We’re under the New Law (of Love). I do not neuter my pets because I love them. Another person might neuter their pets because they love them. I do not judge anyone their personal decision. As I stated in my original post, I seemed to have asked a question of the Master, and he provided me the answer I sought. That’s it, that’s all. Then, I shared the answer on this Board. Maybe I shouldn’t have. What is written (in Genesis) concerning reproduction by God’s creatures was long before the Old Law came into existence. I certainly don’t mean to put anyone under Law, especially Old Law. Let’s stick with the New Law of Love.

What comes immediately to mind to me regarding this post that I started is the following biblical quotation. It’s talking about eating meat and/or vegetables, etc., but I’ve done my own little edit to it to prove a most important point, so to speak. Our Lord is directing it to me and no one else! It’s found in Romans, chapter 14:

Accept the one whose faith is weak [this could very well be me], without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything [or to neuter], but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables [refrains from neutering]. 3 The one who eats [neuters] everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not [refrains from neutering], and the one who does not eat everything [refrains from neutering] must not judge the one who does [neuter], for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? [I apologize if I seem to have done this.] To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another [neuters]; another considers every day alike [refrains from neutering]. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day [neuters] as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat [neuters] does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains [refrains from neutering] does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, [b]make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean [neutering or refraining from neutering] in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking [or neutering or not neutering], but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food [neutering or not]. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.


Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa . . . in sackcloth and ashes.

--Armand


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:24 am 
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Good Morning Armand
I totally understand your stand on the subject of neutering animals and do not judge you or anyone if they wish to not neuter or to neuter. We are so fortunate to live by love now instead of by law because human law does not allow for personal choice and conscience. I just wanted to comment on your post because I felt rude reading it and not participating in a subject that interests me.

Here in my area the township and vets tend to promote neutering pets unless you are planning to breed them. I guess the reason is that there are a LOT of unwanted cats (strays) and dogs in the humane society who they can't find homes for and some of those places put the animals down (euthanize) as it costs money to keep hundreds of animals indefinitely.

I really don't get upset when people have different ways of thinking or doing things anymore. I used to get upset but now that I have lots of life experience (OLD) I see that there is room for all different ways to do things and still they all could be right.

An Example of difference of opinion that I experienced was years ago when I had my son Scott in 1976. I was fairly young but to me there was no question in my mind that I would have him circumcised. My husband was circumcised and he was adamant that our son had to be circumcised. My best friend (we saw each other or spoke everyday) at the time was a lady from Scotland and when she found out I had circumcised my son she was shocked and really gave me a lecture. She told me I was cruel and how dare I do that to him, I . I felt so guilty but I just didn't like the look of her son's (15 months older than my son) non-circumcision and it seemed a lot of work to clean it.

I didn't argue with her and left the subject though she would often bring it up and tell me how cruel I was, she was so angry about it I thought she was going to stop being friends. I had another baby boy 4 years later and had him circumcised too but we were not as close of friends then ( I moved away from the area and became a JW again) so it was a subject that I avoided and could avoid as she didn't see me everyday anymore and see me changing the babies diapers.
Well fast forward 12 years and her son had to be circumcised in an emergency operation because his foreskin was too tight and he was getting terrible infections. This was very embarrassing, humiliating and painful for her son (a teenager) so in her case it was crueler to have not circumcised him.

Personally now I am not sure which is better and if one is cruel and the other better, its just up to the family. My son Scott has 3 sons and they are not circumcised because his wife is Finnish and it isn't a practice that her family have ever done. My daughter has 2 sons and both of them are circumcised because she asked me my opinion about it and her Man/partner (father of her boys) was circumcised and thought it was better.
If I were to look at it from a biblical standpoint maybe circumcision is better but nowadays people have running water and bathtubs and showers so they can keep cleaner than in the days of Israel wandering in the desert.

I will stop going on and on LOL

Have a wonderful day Armand.


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:55 am 
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Peace to you both, dear Armand and Zoe - I would like to comment, if I may.

There are couple/few things to consider here, the primary one being mercy. While it is true that under the Law certain* animals needed to remain whole, in our present day and age, neutering/spaying a pet MIGHT be the merciful thing to do - if not for the pet itself, then for its offspring. Most of us no longer live in areas where animals are free to roam - fields, forests, meadows, where domesticated animals can forage, hunt, run and play, etc. Rather, we live in areas where a pet's life can virtually be in peril at all times (streets/roads, freeways, flooding sewers... people, etc.). Rather than allow a pet to procreate litter (after litter) of animals that can (and most likely will) be run over, poisoned... euthanized... we have the ability to stop such tragedies by controlling their procreation (and proliferation).

For me, as a fur-baby "mom," I think that is the merciful thing to do (and I don't have to worry as to what "becomes" of my fur-"grandchildren"). Here, then, the truth that mercy triumphs OVER judgment (the Law), would, IMHO, apply. My love for my fur-babies, which allows me to SURPASS the Law, rather than fear that I've trespassed against it.

Also, while perhaps the earth isn't quite "filled" with domestic dogs/cats, it's not wanting for such, either. In fact, in China, stray dogs and cats are used as food for lions/tigers in the zoos (yeah, I almost had a heart attack when I read about that! I could just see one of my babies cowering in a corner, shivering uncontrollably, while waiting to be devoured - almost broke my heart! Well, someone's baby's babies are doing that, as we speak!).

Finally, praise JAH but we are not asked or required to submit burnt offerings any longer, "whole" or otherwise. But ancient was so required and in doing so the offering given to JAH had to be unsullied in EVERY sense. NOT because JAH was some inexplicably exacting potentate who wouldn't accept anything "except the very best". It was because of what... or rather WHOM... those sacrifices represented. Or, rather, who they substituted for - Christ. They were inferior offerings in his place... until the sacrifice that HE was (whole, without blemish in SPIRIT) was provided.

As you might see, dear Armand and I have differing views on this, but they are not views that cause a separation or need to (nor has done so, here, so I don't mean to imply that at all). It is because of his last post, though, that that is so: some things we are to keep to ourselves as they have no bearing on one's service to JAH or Christ, but are only "tests" of our own beliefs and consciences. If we are concerned with [the] Law, then we will receive what is [the] Law. If we are concerned with love, however, then we will receive that which is from love.

I hope that helps... and, as always, peace to both of you dear, dear ones!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:08 pm 
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It makes total sense Shelby - I forgot about the sacrifices of animals that the Israelites had to make, that must have been difficult. Thankfully we don't have to do that anymore and can just partake of bread and wine in thanks and remembrance of Christ's sacrifice.


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:12 am 
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Good morning and peace to you all this day,

Armando my brother, I must say, I truly appreciated those verses in Romans that you edited.

That although we are no longer under "old law" but now a law of mercy and love, it helps truly to understand why each of us may choose to do something that one does not.

Thank you for that!
Love and peace to you, your sister and fellow servant and slave of Christ, Kim


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:26 pm 
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I completely agree with what Shelby has said that it is the merciful thing to do. As a former breeder, dog show fancier, I would like to add the health benefits of spay and neuter. I always say leave the breeding to the professionals. The amount of testing they do to make sure they are breeding the very best representation of the breed, (hips, elbows, cardiac, eyes, thyroid, etc etc the list goes on) that they are healthy and able to do the job they were originally bred for. Most breeders today put their pet quality puppies on spay/neuter contracts so you don't see unwanted litters that end up in the pound. A breeder is responsible for all the pups they bring into the world taking them back if they need to for whatever reason. If by chance they do end up in the pound they have rescue groups to retrieve them.

One of the health benefits of spaying your bitch is not having to worry each season about pyometra, https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/pyometra-in-dogs I have included the link to explain this dangerous disease. For the males if they are not being used for stud service there is cancer to worry about. I had an international champion that at the age of 5 died of cancer. Had he been neutered he would have lived out his life with me. If your dog is not being used for stud service you always have to worry about cancer. He had not been used for stub yet.

Also one needs to remember not all pregnancies go smooth, they just don't go in the backyard and pop out a litter of pups. Sometimes they need help delivering, or C section or the pup is born not breathing and you have to resuscitate. There are a whole host of things that go wrong during a delivery. I have a friend that her bitch was in labor with 11 pups and had an aneurysm, she lost mamma dog and all 11 pups.



If you choose to spay/neuter it is best to wait until they are two years old. They do need the hormones for their grow plates to close properly. I have attached an illustration that shows at what age different growth plates close.

Image


I hope this sheds a little light on the benefits of spay and neuter and when it is safe to do it.

Peace to all

aa


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Very Interesting message - Happytobeout!!!

I totally agree about breeding nowadays as so much can go wrong with dogs and so many defects can appear if you are breeding the same breed all the time.
I have a Yellow Labrador Retriever dog that we got when he was 8 weeks old from a Mennonite breeder. Their dogs had no papers though they were pure breed so we had no guarantee about the health of the dogs. It was a business for them to sell the dogs and they sold a LOT of pups every year. Our male puppy was very healthy and a good dog but he developed skin problems and thyroid problems when he was 4 years old. He is 10 now and we have had nothing but severe problems with his skin infections. It has cost us literally thousands of dollars a year for vet fees. He is on antibiotics and prednisone all the time and also thyroid pills. He is happy and an excellent dog behaviour wise but we battle his health problems weekly, he goes to the Vet every week for a bath with medicated shampoo to help with his infections. Its a never ending battle. My husband had a Lab before who had no problems at all but that dog had Papers and was from a reputable breeder. He says he sees now that there is a difference between a good breeder and a back yard breeder who doesn't take care with the lineage.


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Thanks for sharing that, dear HTBO (and the greatest of love and peace to you, dear sister!). I truly appreciate the information as to the benefits... mercy... in spayong/neutering a pet (dog).

I mean absolutely no offense, though, but the spirit in me wonders how breeding dogs "for show" is merciful. Isn't this done for the entertainment of humans? Other than the literal work that a specific breed is bred FOR... what difference does it make to mankind as to the purity of the genealogy of a dog... except for sport? Isn't the same (motive) bound up in certain men's position as to the purity of [human] race?

Doesn't the FACT that a dog of mixed breed tends to be stronger than one that is "purebred" show the folly of that kind of thinking? True, dogs BRED to, say, round up sheep do better if they are of that line. As do, say, dogs BRED to handle rats/vermin. But "show dogs" aren't bred for such a purpose - indeed, would rarely be allowed to perform the very functions they are bred FOR.

In addition, do not breeders often "dispose," in some way or another, of Wells that present with "defects," as many "purebred" tend to do?

Again, I mean absolutely NO offense but it puzzles me, personally, that a breeder (not you, per se, but in general) would take issue with something like not spaying/neutering, yet engage in "selective" proliferation of the "pure" bred.

Imagine where WE would all be if being purebred was the gauge for life... or death. WE... ALL of us who belong to Christ are "mutts," are we not? Christ isn't calling those who only have the blood of Abraham and Sarah. Indeed, THOSE people put themselves in position to be REJECTED. But, as it says, whoever does JAH's WIL... is acceptable to Him, yes?

I realize we are speaking about dogs here, but in comparison to Christ... are we not ALL "dogs"?

Just some things to think about. Purity of pedigree... or flesh ... does not equate to purity IN SPIRIT.

Just some thoughts. As always, peace to you and your dear household!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:11 pm 
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Peace to you my dear sister!
Showing dogs is a sport like any other sport BUT the dogs absolutely love it! They love being pampered and they get very excited when it's ring call. Believe me when I tell you that when I had my dogs in the car and we show up at the show grounds they are so excited they can't wait to get out of the car, tails wagging, barking howling, they know where they are.

There is a lot of time and effort that goes into planning a breeding, making sure you have the best representation of the breed, and above all else a healthy well tempered puppy. It's choice, some people like mixed breeds and the pound is full of unwanted mixes. For me I like to know what I am getting, temperament is important to me. Health is equally as important. When you get a pound puppy or a puppy from a backyard breeder it's a roll of the dice. My friend who had always had pups from reputable breeders decided she wanted to rescue from the pound, when this dog was about a 1 1/2 yrs old she was attacked by her, just out for a nice car ride out of the blue. I'm not saying purebred dogs don't do the same thing, I'm just saying you can get a bad tempered or a dog with ailments from the pound/backyard breeder. I don't agree that they are healthier because they are mixed.

Breeders take issue with their dogs being bred because they don't want them ending up in the pound. To me that is the cruelest thing one can do is drop off their unwanted ill mannered dog at the pound because they did not have a breeder to turn to when behavior problems developed. There truly is an art to breeding and unless you know what you are doing you leave it to the professionals. My last litter of Ridgebacks I had 13 people on a waiting list and 9 pups, I screened them carefully and put the puppies in the best home. I only had to take one back due to a divorce.
Also breeders do not cull the undesirable pups. Those go in pet homes with the same loving care as the show quality pups.

Many of the dogs in the show ring still do the work they were bred for. Your sporting breeds are used in the field, working dogs have jobs, hounds and herding all still do the work they were bred for. Some of the top winning dogs are still doing the work they were bred for.

I would not compare humans to dogs, but I do get excited when you come to visit and if I had a tail it would be wagging LOLOL ::))

Peace and only Love to you!!


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:18 am 
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Quote:
Also breeders do not cull the undesirable pups


Would that that were true, my dear sister (mornin' and the greatest of love and peace to you!):

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/communi ... ut-culling

http://danesonline.com/forums/forum/gre ... -kill-pups

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/communi ... the-litter

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/br ... -cull.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/answers/commen ... rocess_of/

http://aldf.org/press-room/press-releas ... sled-dogs/


I could post more links... but I think you get the picture. While I am sure there are some "responsible" (professional) breeders, that is not necessarily the situation with all.

As for it being a "sport," while I can see that from a human standpoint, I'm not so sure from a spiritual standpoint. Should owned dogs be used for work? Absolutely. Should they be bred to "show" their work.... for human entertainment? I'm not so sure...

For me (me, and not anyone else), the same would apply as if they were children (i.e., beings helpless to a point and so dependent upon (adult) humans, and so "in subjection" to us):

• I would not have children just for sport

• I would not parade my children just so others could applaud (even if it made my children feel "good" for a few years - if they chose to parade themselves later, that's their choice)

• I would not rate, rank, or compare my child’s “pedigree” (or anything else) with that of another child (although I might be grateful that my child IS my child, versus, say, another child - but that would be personal and in my heart)

• I would not put down any of my children born with a "defect"... including intestines outside their body

• I would not have them just to sell them


But... that's me. What *I* would [not] do. The "command" is all things you want MEN (not dogs, etc.) to do to you, you must do to them. I eat meat, so I am sure someone would say the same as to cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. And they would be right (meat was not among the initial food given us to eat... and won't be in the end). So, I am not judging you (or any breeder) here... just as I would not judge someone who chooses NOT to neuter/spay (vs. someone who does).

I am reminded that some might say humans no longer enslave others humans, due to the cruelty. But that is not really the truth, is it, as human trafficking is alive and well... throughout the world, this country, heck, right here in my own town (Oakland - billboards all over the place calling upon "men" to STOP [engaging in] human trafficking).

Bottom line: as dear Arman (peace, luv!) also pointed out, one should not judge another in choices such as these. One can, however, try to "englighten" another as to where they might believe their choice is "right" and another's "wrong"... while making similar but different choices. I hope you understand.

As always, the greatest of love and peace to you... and to your dear household!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Im not saying no one culls dogs/puppies, Im saying you won't find that with dog show people, and if they do I do not know of it, it would be very rare. We can agree to disagree, unless you have been in the dog show world it will be very foreign to you.

Love and Peace to you


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 Post subject: Re: A Divine Mandate?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 pm
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Im not saying no one culls dogs/puppies, Im saying you won't find that with dog show people, and if they do I do not know of it, it would be very rare. We can agree to disagree, unless you have been in the dog show world it will be very foreign to you.


Ah, dear, dear HTBO (as always, peace to you, dear sister!)... and you are absolutely right: the dog show world is foreign to me. And I understand you believe it hubris of me to even comment on this topic. My comments were, though, based on... let's say "research." You know me (or should, by now) and so know (or should) that I tend to look up stuff... or maybe watch a documentary or investigative report or three. Even so, my apologies if my doing so offended you; again, that was not my intention.

My intention was to perhaps give you and others a different "way" to look at something. If you can't... you can't. I don't judge or take issue with you, not at all. I would be wrong, however, if I let folks think it's not done, when the truth is that it is. Of course, I am sure you don't do it nor do those you know. No problem here. I just tried to share a little bit of truth. If you can receive it, wonderful. If not... wonderful - my love (for you) would not change, not at all - I am a foremost sinner so how could I take issue?

I would ask you to remember about "listening," though. It really is beneficial... even if it's something we don't "want" to hear.

As always, the GREATEST of love and peace to you, dear, dear sister... and to your household!

Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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