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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:11 pm 
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I've become embroiled in a Facebook thread about inaccuracies in the Bible. My link is knowing an exJW who is now a minister. His friend/associate started the thread. I posted that we should remember that Christ warned us about false scribes and that He is the only word of God.

The thread author has asked me how we'd know about Christ without the Bible, since we depend on it for our knowledge? I waited until I heard from our Lord. He reminded me that people had to know about Him and 'if necessary even the stones would cry out'.

I related that, together with the thought that all expressions need to be tested against the love of Christ. Now he's asked me to elaborate. I'm not as good as some of you at this...but I'm doing my best and listening...

Any help would be appreciated. It feels as if there is someone in the thread who NEEDS the true information. I am soon going to say that we need to LISTEN to Christ although I can't imagine how that'll be received.

Loz X

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:30 pm 
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Good Morning Loz, peace to you sis,

The Bible only mentions recently ALL those that lived by faith and hearing Christ speak. How did Adam, Eve, Noah, Abel, Cain, Enoch, Joseph, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Samuel, Saul, Deborah, Rahab, OMgoodness everyone prior to a written book KNOW Christ?

Then someone who is deaf, mute and blind...cannot know Christ cuz he cannot see to read the Bible?

What can be more accurate than the source Himself that says, "MY sheep hear MY VOICE and follow"... Didn't say, "Follow me in the Bible"...

Well dear Loz, sharing and planting a seed is all that one can done. As you mentioned whoever it is for, they may or may not receive it.

Love, your sister in Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Yes, thank you Kim. That really helps.

The problem is when you're on the spot all these obvious logical facts leave you!

Loz X

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Sounds like you are doing just fine, in listening and then sharing as you hear:

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I waited until I heard from our Lord. He reminded me that people had to know about Him and 'if necessary even the stones would cry out'.



Share as you know is true from our Lord, what you hear from our Lord, and do so in love (all of which i know that you are doing), and let those who are seeking Him, seeking Truth, be given ears that they may hear the truth in what you are sharing.


If they need - as most of us need at some time or another - to see this in writing. You could show them where it is written that Christ does speak - where He himself said that His sheep hear his voice; that he had more to call and that they too would hear His voice. You could bear witness to Him by sharing your experience as you have heard Him. You could bear witness to this truth of Christ speaking by showing the examples in what is written and where He has said that He does speak.

For instance (and I am just copying from something i shared with others who kept asking me about it):



The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." (Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.


.........


And as our dear sister Kim just said, you can plant a seed. You cannot, yourself, make that seed grow. So share as you know, as you hear, as our Lord directs you... and do so in love. As I know that you are doing.

May you speak in faith and truth as our Lord gives you!


May those who wish them be given ears to hear, so as to get the sense of these truths, and also to hear as the Spirit and the Bride say, "Come!" May all those who seek and thirst "Come! Take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace and love to you dear sister, and to your loved ones,
your servant and sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:07 pm 
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I know Loz, my mind was blank too. Some good examples from Justmom, but I think they will apply what those people like Adam heard to just God and not Christ.

Have you dropped John 5 on them yet, where Christ said that Moses' writings testified about Him, but they still didn't want to come to Him?

The books in the collection called the bible can be a reference, but they are not all scripture, as we know. Even scripture has been tampered with. I would liken it to history books. We know George Washington was the first president because we are taught it out of a book. But is everything in the history book true? I just read that we had four presidents before George. What? lol


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:32 pm 
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Ditto to all that has been shared with you hear, dear Loz (peace to you, dear sister!). Might I suggest:

1. First, going directly to the Master and asking HIM to respond THROUGH you, USE you, as HIS "instrument," and then just share what he says (doing so JUST as he tells you); or

2. Certainly not to supersede the above (because it IS the first and proper course), perhaps you can post a link to the discussion to help us assist you better? Not that we would post to the thread but maybe post responses HERE... for YOU to post to the thread (in your own words, of course); or

3. Perhaps you can direct your discussion mate to various posts HERE (seeing as s/he is a former JW), even invite them to join in discussing matters here (in addition to the forum you are currently discussing on).

Just some thoughts.

Again, peace to you and I truly hope you are able to give the person "food" for thought. Keep in mind, though, that ultimately it is up to our dear Lord as to whether such one GETS the truths you are sharing with him/her. For your part, it is simply your love of our dear Lord that impels you SHARE his truth... and obedience when he tells you what to say... that matters. Not whether someone becomes a "disciple" or not. Unlike religion (and the WTBTS), our "worthiness" is NOT based on how many proselytes we make. It is based on our faith in Christ, which faith compels us TO share his truth with others.

I hope that helps!

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:10 am 
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Thank you all for the help & support, it's invaluable. There has been a nugget in each reply that has assured and strengthened me.

Peace....love to all of you

Loz X

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:45 am 
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Somehow I missed Tammy's great post. Yes, a lot of good things from everyone. This is a hard one for me. I hesitate to talk about hearing with others, because I hardly hear anything myself and it seems like hypocrisy for someone like me.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:41 am 
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The Bible has always been more than just about learning about Christ, though it most certainly points to Him.
The bible is a collection of books and letters and poetry and while the one thing they have in common is the shared love of God, they are not all written to make EXPLICIT statements about God.
The bible was written FOR us but not TO Us.

All that said, the bible is simply a tool that points the way to Our Lord and, like any tool, if you focus too much on it ( the tool) you will miss the end, which is Our Lord.

Anyone can know Our Lord, with out without the bible.
The issue that worries, even scares some people is that IF we are to rely only/mainly on what we hear from Our Lord and, the simple fact that humans are flawed, failed and notorious at being wrong, how does one deal with conflicting views?

The bible can and should help us with that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Peace!

One has to make sure from whom one is hearing. We are admonished to “test the inspired expressions” to see if they “originate with God.” Once we determine who is speaking, we can listen freely and with comfort and confidence as to who is speaking.

As for different views, are we actually speaking about different views, or are we speaking about different directives. Sometimes the Master of a house, speaks directives to ALL in the household; sometimes the Master speaks directives to one or two servants. And when speaking to one or two servants, it doesn’t mean that ALL servants are to obey the directive—the directive was to that one or two, and not applicable to all.

As for actual views on a matter, “keep on asking.” And while you might share the view you hear, and if that view differs from another’s view, it doesn’t have to cause division (unless we let it) knowing that the common bond of attachment is “love,” which IS THE THING that identifies us as belonging to CHRIST—not the views we may hold at any given time.

Come take Life’s Water Free!

--Armand


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Peace to you all! I hope no one takes offense at what I am going to post (I know you won't, dear Paul (peace to you, dear brother!), but I'm hoping others don't on your behalf as no offense is intended).

One thing that seems to stand in a lot of folks way is a lack of love... for the TRUTH. If Christ IS the Truth, then you not only need to love HIM... but TRUTH, as well. And not just some truth... or the truth "as we see it"... but truth AS IT TRULY is.

For that reason, I MUST share the following:

Quote:
The Bible has always been more than just about learning about Christ, though it most certainly points to Him.


The Bible does not point to Christ. The SCRIPTURES... some (but not all) of which are contained IN the Bible... point to Christ. The BIBLE contains MORE than Scripture... AND not all Scripture is contained in the Bible. Grasp the TRUTH of this.

Quote:
The bible is a collection of books and letters and poetry and while the one thing they have in common is the shared love of God, they are not all written to make EXPLICIT statements about God.


The BIBLE... is a COMPILATION by earthling MAN... which compilation is includes a collection of writings that do not necessarily have love of God in common. SOME of the writings do, but many actually tout a misleading and erroneous FEAR of God... NOT based in love at all... because it depicts Him as a vengeful, exacting despot who loves only those who love Him and does what He says. A great deal of it actually contains LIES about JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel, which is one reason why His SON was SENT: as that Son said, he came to bear witness TO THE TRUTH. About what? ABOUT God, his Father.

And so he said, "You see ME, you see THE FATHER." Thus, you do NOT see the angry, vengeful, exacting God that most of the Bible depicts in CHRIST, the SON. Why? Because the TRUTH is that the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, doesn't NEED us to obey Him - our OBEDIENCE doesn't benefit HIM - it is so as to SAVE OUR [eternal] LIVES.

And so, for example, rather than depicting the TRUTH... that Adham/Eve were WARNED not to eat of the TKOGB because they would die (by means of the ACTUAL of eating) if they DID... the lying pen of the copyists/scribes... and/or lying mouths of the false prophets... and or ignorant blindness of the teachers... depict it as the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies KILLING them for doing so. A LIE. And one of thousands!

Quote:
The bible was written FOR us but not TO Us.


The Bible was not written FOR or TO... ANYONE. Various books and letters OF the Bible were written... to specific people. "Moses, the Psalms, and the Prophets" were written to the people of fleshly Israel. The first contains the Law, which was for the people of FLESHLY Israel (including proselytites) ONLY. It was NOT for people of the nations NOR for SPIRITUAL Israel (the latter have the NEW Law, which is written on the HEARTS).

The gospel accounts were written for various ones: Matthew, Mark, and John... for the early Hebrew congregations... as was the letter to the Hebrews. Luke's account was written at the behest of and FOR... Theophilus. Paul's letters were written to the early GREEK and ROMAN congregations... and to specific individuals, including Timothy, Philemon, etc. John wrote to specific individuals, too, as well as to the various congregations.

We might not want to BELIEVE that... but that IS THE TRUTH.

Quote:
All that said, the bible is simply a tool that points the way to Our Lord


The Bible is not a tool that points to our dear Lord. There are fI've (5) things that point to Christ... and only 5... and the Bible is not one of them. They are, in order:

1. God Himself (He draws ones to Christ, even if they've never had, read, seen a Bible);

2. The [Old] Law (which is the Tutor to Christ), if one doesn't yet have the NEW Law written on their heart;

3. The Scriptures (Moses, which contains the [Old] Law), the Psalms, and the Prophets;

4. Holy spirit, in the form of the blood of God, which blood was given to and so courses through His Son, which Son grants it to whomever JAH gives to him; and/or

5. That Son, himself, who calls his sheep... by name.

Quote:
And, like any tool, if you focus too much on it ( the tool) you will miss the end, which is Our Lord.


If you FOCUS on it... indeed, if you focus on ANYTHING other than our dear Lord, the Copper Serpent raised up by JAH Himself... you CANNOT see (and will have a hard time hearing) him! The ONLY purpose the Bible serves... ZONLY purpose... is for UNBELIEVERS. Those who have not yet put their FULL and COMPLETE faith in Christ. Those who have FULL and COMPLETE faith in him do not NEED a Bible. They do not need SCRIPTURE. Why? Because:

1. They hear HIM; because
2. They have the (New) Law written on their hearts ; and so
3. They are granted HOLY SPIRIT, the ANOINTING of which is the means by which they are TAUGHT. God's spirit... blood... is IN them... which bloods SPEAKS. AND so they do not need anyone (other than Christ, their Leader and Teacher) TO teach them.

Quote:
Anyone can know Our Lord, with out without the bible.


This is TRUE. Many have and many do! "Many", however, does NOT mean multi-millions at a time ("Many are called; few are CHOSEN"). One cannot say they believe in Christ, believe he is the Truth and believe what he [is recorded to have] said... and then think EVERYONE or even almost everyone... is chosen. That is not the TRUTH. But that is not due to a flaw with God or Christ. It is OUR flaw. Because EVERYONE is called. Regardless of nation, tribe, tongue, or people. EVERYONE, however, does not LISTEN to the One CALLING... so as to heed his voice AND OBEY.

The issue that worries, even scares some people is that IF we are to rely only/mainly on what we hear from Our Lord and, the simple fact that humans are flawed, failed and notorious at being wrong, how does one deal with conflicting views?

It only worries those who don't know Christ. HIS sheep KNOW HIS VOICE. And HIS mouth ALWAYS speaks what is true, what is upright. And so there are no conflicting views. EVER. If there is a conflict, it is OURS. We are not looking at or listening to HIM but to another, including perhaps ourselves. What we WANT to hear or WANT a thing to be (or not be)... rather than what HE is saying/what is TRUE.

If we WANT to hear TRUTH, however, we absolutely will. And so, if we WANT to hear him... and what HE is saying... we WILL. Thing is... it ain't always "pretty." If all we want to hear are pretty, ooh you're such a good person, you did/look good, etc., well... you might hear that... but is it TRUE? And if not, where did it come from? WHO did it come from?

That's not to say all we should hear is bad. Sometimes, though, we can't even handle GOOD truth. So society, particularly religion, says no, you can't see yourself as a kind person. But what does CHRIST say? True, there's nothing to BRAG about when you do good (you did what you OUGHT to have done, good for nothing servant that you are)... but if you've been a good husband, good wife, good parent, good friend... then that is the TRUTH. It's what you DO with that truth... and how you treat others in the knowledge of it ("I've done a good thing. No need to brag to others or think more of myself than necessary but continue DOING such good thing to others").

But we often lie to ourselves so that we can never do ENOUGH. And then doing good becomes burdensome. Because it lacks fulfillment amd PERSONAL reward ("No matter HOW hard I try... HOW many hours in FS... it's NEVER enough! So why BOTHER?!").

Quote:
The bible can and should help us with that.


If the Bible could help us... we would not even be having this discussion. There would be no despair in the world, no war, etc. Because either everyone would be doing what Christ said (and finding peace that way)... or what the OT said... and finding it that way.

It is the conflicting views OF/IN the Bible... and various other "holy books"... which views have bern created and fomented by MAN... and particularly those who seat themselves in Moses' seat and/or claim to know and so teach, yet do NOT have God's blood, holy spirit, IN them... and so can't know God because they don't know His SON... so as to have HIS mind... that is the TRUE source of fear... of what "scares" people... and so leads to despair. That, in turn, leads to anger... and hatred.

I am truly sorry, dear, dear P... as I didn't mean to destroy YOUR perception/belief, but again, I had to share the TRUTH about these things. We live in a world where truth is not really important. It has its place but that place is very small, overshadowed by people not wanting to offend others and/or inconvenience themselves. And so truth is greatly skirted.

The Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH), Who IS the Truth, however, never put the need to not offend others or inconvenience himself... over truth. Living it, speaking it, being it... giving his life for it. He could very well have said,

"Look, folks, I'm not really God's son; I'm only a man, nothing more. You don't really need to to listen to me and I don't want to make the priests mad, so let's just forget all this faith stuff. Treat people like they treat you - why should YOU be wronged and not do something about it? Better yet, get them first, I say. And give up MY life!? Heck, Im with Peter - I don't know Hod, so don't come after ME; find somebody else to trade for Barrabas! I'm too young to die... and ya'll really ain't worth it to me, anyway!"

Lies, all. And so what of us if he had lied and HIS who and what he was... to spare himself?

We weren't promised a rose garden. We were TOLD that IF we wanted to follow HIM... we had to pick up our TORTURE poles/trees... and FOLLOW him. Whole LOT of inconveniencingredients ourselves... and offending others in that. WHOLE lot. Because a slave is not greater than his master.

This isn't pretty business, following Christ, dear ones. And so, if we dnot want to get "dirty" (i.e., have people thinking we're crazy, insane, foolish... stoopid), it's probably not the "career" for us.

Truth is important. Has to be. Because Christ is the Truth. You cannot pursue the Truth... and not think truth is critical. One does not always have to SHARE truth ("Do not throw pearls before swine")... but we certainly must when we can and should ("Speak truth with one another ").

I hope you (all) can grasp the truth of what I've shared here. I also hope that ALL who are wishing it are given ears to hear when the Spirit and his Bride says to them to:

"Come! Take Life's (his) water... holy spirit... which is the breath, blood, and seed of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... free!"

If you ARE wishing... then OBEY... and DO what that Spirit SAYS... as to those HEARING. Revelation 22:17 Quit worrying about "looking foolish" to others and just OBEY. Be faithful in what is LEAST... so faithful in MUCH can be ACCOUNTED to you! HEAR... get the SENSE of it... and OBEY.

THEN... "seasons of refreshment WILL come upon YOU."

I hope that helps, truly.

As always, peace to you all, and to your dear, dear households!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:24 am 
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And that is why so many still hold fast to the bible...


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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2016 4:47 am 
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Quote:
The BIBLE... is a COMPILATION by earthling MAN... which compilation is includes a collection of writings that do not necessarily have love of God in common. SOME of the writings do, but many actually tout a misleading and erroneous FEAR of God... NOT based in love at all... because it depicts Him as a vengeful, exacting despot who loves only those who love Him and does what He says. A great deal of it actually contains LIES about JAH, the MOST Holy One of Israel, which is one reason why His SON was SENT: as that Son said, he came to bear witness TO THE TRUTH


Yes. Thank you for putting this so clearly Shelby.

Loz x

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 5:56 pm 
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Greetings everyone peace to you all,


Thank you our sister Shel for sharing this, peace to you as well.


All that was shared was profound truth from our Lord " The Truth."

Loved this wording! So true!


The Bible does not point to Christ. The SCRIPTURES... some (but not all) of which are contained IN the Bible... point to Christ. The BIBLE contains MORE than Scripture... AND not all Scripture is contained in the Bible. Grasp the TRUTH of this.


And this!.....


If you FOCUS on it... indeed, if you focus on ANYTHING other than our dear Lord, the Copper Serpent raised up by JAH Himself... you CANNOT see (and will have a hard time hearing) him! The ONLY purpose the Bible serves... ZONLY purpose... is for UNBELIEVERS. Those who have not yet put their FULL and COMPLETE faith in Christ. Those who have FULL and COMPLETE faith in him do not NEED a Bible. They do not need SCRIPTURE. Why? Because:

1. They hear HIM; because
2. They have the (New) Law written on their hearts ; and so
3. They are granted HOLY SPIRIT, the ANOINTING of which is the means by which they are TAUGHT. God's spirit... blood... is IN them... which bloods SPEAKS. AND so they do not need anyone (other than Christ, their Leader and Teacher) TO teach them.


May any who wish and thirst for this, Come! Take life's water free!

Your sister and fellow servant of our Lord, Kim


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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:42 am 
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I have nothing to add to that post about the Bible, except to say that my spirit bears witness to all that you have shared. The entire post was up-building, and a timely reminder to keep our eyes and ears turned to Christ... and not to a book... for truth, for life, for direction. EVEN in a debate or discussion with those who are still walking by sight. Look to Christ FIRST, and He may tell us something that is also written, that we may share with the other person to help them see.

But WE must look to Him, always. Because apart from Him we can do nothing.


Quote:
The issue that worries, even scares some people is that IF we are to rely only/mainly on what we hear from Our Lord and, the simple fact that humans are flawed, failed and notorious at being wrong, how does one deal with conflicting views?

It only worries those who don't know Christ. HIS sheep KNOW HIS VOICE. And HIS mouth ALWAYS speaks what is true, what is upright. And so there are no conflicting views. EVER. If there is a conflict, it is OURS. We are not looking at or listening to HIM but to another, including perhaps ourselves. What we WANT to hear or WANT a thing to be (or not be)... rather than what HE is saying/what is TRUE.



So true! It DOES only worry those who don't know Christ and don't know His voice. I never really took note of that until you said it here.



Peace and love to you and to you all, and to your loved ones,
your servant and sister and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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