xjwsforChrist

Oh my goodness! I am sooo frustrated with myself now that I didn't grasp this and link it all together myself! Yes! Now it makes sense and my spirit bears witness with the TRUTH of it. I was getting so confused and baffled. I'd left out our knowledge of the substance/power/energy that we are dealing with.

Thank you sister. And thanks be to our Lord Jaheshua who enables us to understand the precious things he shares with us.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

You're (very) close, dear FC (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear brother!)... but I would offer that your position indicates that he exhibit the same AMOUNT/LEVEL of power in both instances (John 20:17 and Thomas putting his finger in the holes)... but touching him only slightly was less dangerous than doing so more greatly. My understanding is that the power... energy... amount/level... fluctuates. He can turn in on and UP... or down, even off.

If what you're suggesting is true, then dear Lazarus could NEVER have reclined against our dear Lord, let alone touch him for any length of time. And yet, that is what that one did:

"After he had said this, [Jesus] was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”

His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.”

Leaning back against [Jesus], he asked him, “Lord, who is it?” John 13:21-25; John 11:3, 36

And what of when our dear Lord washed the 12's feet?

Surely, both of these instances involved more than, say, a quick finger poke. Yet, if our Lord was "on" ALL the time, these would have been harmed, no? So, then, LOGIC tells us... in addition to he himself... that he was able to CONTROL his energy. And we know that is TRUE; both the Father AND the Son can control their "dynamic energy," to the greatest level of calibration. Which is why those our dear Lord touched... or who touched him (in faith)... were HEALED (and not zapped!).

Something WE, mankind, aren't able to do. For us, the use of radiation (to cure) is hit and miss. Because we don't know how to PERFECTLY calibrate the AMOUNT needed TO heal (a certain individual/illness).

So, while your suggestion is a very GOOD one... and even plausible, had it perhaps been someone else... it's not quite accurate.

Now, someone might ask, "Well, couldn't he have just turned [the power] off when the woman went to touch him?" Mmmmmm... no. And the reason why is FASCINATING!

You see, the body he occupied had died. BEFORE it died, he knew it... and well. Because he had occupied it from infancy and spent 30 years in it. THIS body, however, was brand new. A "babe"... having been born... AGAIN. Now, consider what occurred when he was a little boy:

"I, Thomas the Israelite, am reporting to you, all my non-Jewish brothers and sisters, to make known the extraordinary childhood deeds of our Lord Jesus Christ - what he did after his birth in my region. This is how it all started:

When this boy, [Jesus], was five years old, he was playing at the ford of a rushing stream. He was collecting the flowing water into ponds and made the water instantly pure. He did this with a single command. He then made soft clay and shaped it into twelve sparrows. He did this on the sabbath day, and many other boys were playing with him.

But when a Jew saw what [Jesus] was doing while playing on the sabbath day, he immediately went off and told Joseph, [Jesus'] father: "See here, your boy is at the ford and has taken mud and fashioned twelve birds with it, and so has violated the sabbath."

So Joseph went there, and as soon as he spotted him he shouted, "Why are you doing what's not permitted on the sabbath?"

But [Jesus] simply clapped his hands and shouted to the sparrows: "Be off, fly away, and remember' me, you who are now alive!" And the sparrows took off and flew away noisily.

The Jews watched with amazement, then left the scene to report to their leaders what they had seen [Jesus] doing.

The son of Annas the scholar, standing there with [Jesus], took a willow branch and drained the water [Jesus] had collected. [Jesus], however, saw what had happened and became angry, saying to him, "Damn you, you irreverent fool! What harm did the ponds of water do to you? From this moment you, too, will dry up like a tree, and you'll never produce leaves or root or bear fruit."
In an instant the boy had completely withered away. Then [Jesus] departed and left for the house of Joseph. The parents of the boy who had withered away picked him up and were carrying him out, sad because he was so young. And they came to Joseph and accused him: "It's your fault - your boy did this."

Later he was going through the village again when a boy ran and bumped him on the shoulder. [Jesus] got angry and said to him, "You won't continue your journey." And all of a sudden, he fell down and died.
Some people saw what had happened and said, "Where has this boy come from? Everything he says happens instantly!"

The parents of the dead boy came to Joseph and blamed him saying, "Because you have such a boy, you can't live with us in the village, or else teach him to bless and not curse. He's killing our children!"

So Joseph summoned his child and admonished him in private, saying, "Why are you doing all this? These people are suffering and so they hate and harass us." [Jesus] said, "I know that these are not your words, still, I'll keep quiet for your sake. But those people must take their punishment." There and then his accusers became blind.

Those who saw this became very fearful and at a loss. All they could say was, "Every word he says, whether good or bad, has became a deed - a miracle even!" When Joseph saw that [Jesus] had done such a thing, he got angry and grabbed his ear and pulled very hard. The boy became infuriated with him and replied, "It's one thing for you to seek and not find; it's quite another for you to act this unwisely. Don't you know that I don't really belong to you? Don't make me upset." (Infancy Gospel) Thomas, 1:1-5:6

Now, some would find this hard to believe. What? Christ KILLED someone? Yes, he did. As an inexperienced child. But wasn't he born PERFECT? No, he was NOT, at least, not in the FLESH (or the leadings of the flesh):

"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering." Romans 8:3

"... JaHVeH himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste." Isaiah 7:14-17

"During the days of [Jesus’] life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered..." Hebrews 5:7, 8


For those who might think he was perfect in flesh, note (1) perfect flesh does not... cannot... die, and yet our dear Lord died (in the flesh, but NOT in spirit!); and (2) he had never occupied a physical vessel before, at least not to that extent (i.e., from infancy); and (3) the flesh IS AT ENMITY with the spirit. They are ENEMIES, NOT friends. Our dear Lord took a SLAVE'S form, flesh with IT'S blood... the form such as we have... and was tested IN ALL RESPECTS... as we are. And so, no, he didn't come into this world immediately knowing how to "control" that vessel; he had to LEARN how. LEARN... OBEDIENCE. By listening to the Father, he CONQUERED that vessel. But there would have been no conquer had there been no FIGHT to begin with.

And so, that vessel died and was resurrected ANEW. Same body... but born AGAIN. And so, an "infant" once again, although fully able-bodied (adult and not a baby). THIS time, though, he knew BETTER how to control it, and eventually how to MASTER it.

Remember, when the woman with the flow of blood touched him, power went out of him. Did he SEND it out? No. He felt it go out. That power, then, wasn't COMPLETELY under (his) control. THAT, dear ones... is why so much time is being taken: we are being PREPARED... in SPIRIT... to handle what will be given us, as sons of God and fellow rulers with Christ. Imagine, though, if we let OUR flesh... and its leanings... control US... THEN. Who might WE strike down, with just a thought? [Acts 5:3-9; John 20:22, 23

I hope this helps, truly, any of you who are wishing to see... TRULY see... "what" is going on.

As always, peace to you all... and to your dear households!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

I've never heard of this 'Infancy gospel', regardless of that I am struggling to recognise our Lord in these anecdotes.

I am continuing to think on and ask about these things...

Peace

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

I am saddened and troubled by this. When I read those stories, I felt just like some witnesses must have felt when they kept trying to hang in there with the watchtower, and then they pulled out that overlapping generation card. When the watchtower did that, it just seemed that they were trying to see how far they could go and still have people blindly following along.

Then I thought of that Twilight Zone episode where little Anthony was killing everyone he didn’t like and wishing them into the cornfield.

I was glad when Loz posted this question, as I had been thinking on it myself for a couple of weeks and could not get an answer. Then I was ‘shown’ something I was sure was from the Lord, as my heart was pounding and I became very weak with excitement. I was afraid to post it because I didn’t know if it made sense.

I am not saying the stories aren’t true – I do not know that, but, boy, I was NOT prepared for that. No wonder Christ said there are things we cannot bear yet. I will continue thinking and asking, as Loz said.

May you all have peace. (used to be thenoblelodge)

Ok, this is a shocker Shell, gots to think on it a bit. You just don't expect this from our Lord, but who am I to say it's not true. I know there is so much I don't know or get yet...... What a journey ahead for all of us. ❤

Yes, okay, I can see this. Seems clear and simple now, lol!

But I was not even THINKING along those lines. I mean, I was asking the questions - what harm could have come to Mary by touching Him, what harm could have come to Him by being touched by Mary? But I never made the connection that He was in the process of ascending right then; nor was I thinking anything about His power.

I am ascending....


So yes, I can see how He was protecting Mary by keeping her from touching Him. That is pretty awesome.




Peace to you all,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ Jaheshua,
tammy

So interesting, your comments, dear Loz and At (peace to you, both!). Interesting... because of what our dear Lord reminded me of last evening. You know that I have often shared what I received from our dear Lord, that science is NOT in opposition to what is spiritual, but just too immature to explain/prove "everything" (those who have their faith in it thinks it can). I also shared with you the following:



I think we all, at one time or another, have visualized Christ as religion has portrayed him. And it is truly hard, sometimes, to rid ourselves of "strongly entrenched things." Which is one reason why we must tear all of the beliefs we have, based on what MAN has told us... DOWN... to the "cornerstone" and then let HIM "build". And we have learned, have we not, that he is not "who" they say ("Jesus") and doesn't LOOK like what "they" say ("perfect" flesh in a tall, fair body). We have also learned a lot about God's "dynamic energy" - what it is... what it does... what is has done and will yet do. Should it surprise us, then, that he also is not "what" (as in substance/being) they say?

I cannot tell you dear ones how often I hear that statement these days,dear ones, that he is "not who and what [they] SEEK. Almost daily... and sometimes several times a day. And I will tell you... it has shaken ME to the core. Because, while I know it relates to people who, visualizing Christ as religion has taught them, "are seeking beautiful 'angels' and choirs and harps and riches and glory and prosperity and fame and fortune and 'blessings' which belong to THIS world (viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2609&p=46279&hilit=park#p46279), I know it can apply to "us", as well. Talk about saddening! And who can I share THAT with??

It definitely includes those who walk by sight vs. by faith... and so believe, for instance, in the whole institutionalization of "christianity" and so perceive those who wear fancy clerical rainment or meet in fancy edifices... or have some other outward appearance of piety, etc., the whole monateristic, "Oooh-ahhh-ohhh-ummm" so-called "heavenly/spiritual" experience as "spiritual". "Christian."

That perhaps we are not (all) ready to see Christ "as he (truly) is" is a very real possibility, too. Rather, like most of mankind we, too, have paradigms that depict JAH and Christ as "religiously" pious lifeforms, surrounded by cherubic babies and the voices of male choirs, with "glory" being a state, versus a reality (of light/energy). That, however, is not the TRUTH. They are not pious... but are TRULY clean... in that they are the PUREST of lifeforms in existence. Life, dear ones... IS energy: E=MC2.

Of course, I can totally understand how these things might sound strange. Given what we have been TAUGHT... by the WORLD... most of our lives. That world, however, belongs to and is lying in the power of the WICKED one... our Adversary... the father of the LIE. How can we put trust in ANY of it? I've learned that I cannot. That I have trust what I hear from the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit... because he, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH) gave his life for me. The world didn't. Hasn't. And the Adversary certainly hasn't... and won't. To the contrary, he is willing to sacrifice MY (eternal) life FOR his.

With all of this said, dear ones, I have not shared anything that is not corroborated by the Writings. It's just that the INTERPRETATIONS of the Writings, which we were inculcated with, even bombarded with, have SO missed the mark, the TRUTH... that the TRUTH sounds pretty far-fetched. I am laughing a bit now, though, because in LIGHT of the truth... or should I say, in the Light OF the Truth, Christ... it is their uber-pious religious BS... that is truly far-fetched. I mean, the explanations they come up with!! Explanations... that can't be EXPLAINED!

What, though, if what we have been given in THESE days had been shared in generations past? Talk about your accusations of sorcery, witchcraft... blasphemy. How is it, though, that we can understand... television... radio... the Internet... solar and other radiation... but NOT understand "glory," and "fiery," and "dynamic energy," and "miracles" involving the changing/moving of water... AND fleshly bodies??

I do not ask this to anyone in particular, and perhaps not even anyone here. I just ask. But it is true, what our dear Lord said, that he had many things to tell his disciples that they were not able to bear, yet. And perhaps we're not able to bear what he has still to share with us. No worries - he won't put on us more than we can bear. I, apparently, can bear much. And so, okay - I will share what I am given.

I would, however, ask that any who are having trouble ask themselves just what they think our dear Lord TRULY meant when he spoke of his sheep going "in AND out". In and out... of what? Of... where?

Then, recall... Adham went in... and out. Of course, he did... could. Because it wasn't until after he ERRED... that he could not go back IN. Until then, there were no restrictions against him coming... and going... between the two realms. Genesis 2:7, 8, 15; 3:22-24
How, though, could he DO that? If he couldn't do it... then he wasn't TRULY free. Yet, he was not a slave, but a son. And the sons are TRULY free, are they not? The ground outside the garden wasn't cursed, so why would Adham NOT be able to go outside the garden? He could, though; go in AND out. Until... he couldn't any longer. Because of his error. He was cast out... and had to STAY out.

That, though, is not the destiny of the sons of God. If they will be "like" the angels, then they TOO shall be able to go in(to the spirit realm) and out (into the physical realm). Does not the New Jerusalem have gates? Why gates... if no one ever goes in... and how FREE... if one cannot go OUT?

BUT... flesh and blood cannot enter. And there is nothing for spirit beings in the physical realm. IF, though, one can "put on and put OFF" the vessel of flesh... one can enjoy BOTH realms... no? And isn't THAT true freedom? To not be barred from or confined to either one... but have the joy of being able to access BOTH? Isn't that what "good" angels can do? And "bad" (demon) angels cannot???

We, now, are lower than angels, our dear Lord having been made "a little lower than the angels" but still remained "higher" than us, yes? If, though, we become HIGHER than angels, as his co-rulers... or at least AS high as angels (like them)... how could we not have the same privilege? Indeed, our dear Lord said we WOULD:

"And they will go in AND out... and find pasturage." John 10:9

So long... as they... we... GO THROUGH HIM. And HE said he would give such ones a "white robe." That robe, dear ones, is the SPIRIT body (vs. the fleshly body) that will ALLOW one to go in(to) the spirit realm. Because... flesh with ITS blood... CANNOT enter.

But you all know what I'm going to state next: you do NOT have to take MY word for this. For anything that I share as to these things. Because there is One who mouth speaks truth and ONLY truth... and he is right there in your midst. HIS voice calls to ALL of mankind, not just me, and so one only need listen to what HE has to say.

What, though, if one just can't wrap their heads around these things? My only advice is to listen with one's HEART... and then put faith in what one hears. EVEN if it sounds/feels a bit far-fetched. Although, I truly don't think what I've shared does. Again, knowing what I know now... and from whom I've received it... it is the teachings of religion that now seem TRULY far-fetched. REE-DIK-U-LUS, even. Hocus-pocus... and no wonder everyone's all confused, divided, and at odds. Lies tend to foment such.

Dear sisters... may you be given ears to hear, if what you wish to hear is truth. Not saying it isn't - just saying that you be given even GREATER hearing "power", if you wish/need it. May the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, our dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... make it so, if you truly wish it.

I am, always and to time indefinite, your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

It is not about his substance/ radiant enery, going in and out, ascending, etc, that I have a problem with. That all makes sense. But when you said our Lord killed someone, that is a big punch in the gut. That is going to take some time to process.

My sincere apologies, dear At... and peace to you! Yes, dear hubby clarified for me what may have been difficult for some to receive.

Please keep in mind, dear sister, that our dear Lord did not MURDER anyone. That would have required forethought and planning. There was no deceit or guile in him, though, so that could not be the case.

One of the fruits of the FLESH, however... is anger. And our Lord was sent in the manner of sinFUL flesh, not sinLESS flesh. So, imagine a small child with the power of God in him... being taunted. What child wouldn't hit back? He didn't need to hit, though; he only needed to THINK... and it was so. His SPIRIT had not yet learned how to OVERCOME his flesh... or the "desires" of his flesh, including wanting to avenge himself when angered. Unfortunately, HIS power far, far outweighed the strength of a child's punch.

But he did learn to control it... and very early. He was five or so in these accounts (and yes, they are accurate). By the time he was TWELVE, though, he had a good grip. How? He LISTENED to and OBEYED the Father... who reminded him of Who vengeance belonged to.

Of course, he almost immediately restored the children to life... as his spirit overcame his flesh and he FORGAVE and showed MERCY to them. And did not the Father often do the same with Israel? Let His anger flash up... and then feel regret and bestow mercy on them?

We have a very good example, though, of the POWERADE of holy spirit and how someone newly in possession of it might misuse it: Peter... in his reaction to and action against Ananias and Sapphira. Remember, he was among those told, after our dear Lord gave him holy spirit, that whatever he bound on earth was bound in heaven. To help Peter grasp the seriousness of this, he told Peter and them ALL to NOT judge. And he SHOWED them "how" not to by not judging others himself. We all know, though, don't we, that Peter was very prideful and so had a hard head. As a result of this "righteous indignation" Peter, though, may have to answer in some way for taking vengeance that did not belong to him. Hopefully, HE used that same spirit to bring Ananias and Sapphira back. I have not heard that that was the case, though. And yet, I have not heard or read everything.

But we do have corroboration that our dear Lord was NOT born knowing to choose good and reject bad: Isaiah's prophecy. IF one were looking to know whether the boy WAS the MischaJAH, then they would KNOW, had they searched the Writings, that certain events would occur BEFORE he knew "how to CHOSEN the good and REJECT the bad." Meaning... how to use his power for GOOD... and so LIFE (i.e., healing, casting out demons, resurrecting, etc.)... and not for BAD (i.e., vengeance, judgment, condemnation, death).

All I can say is that I've never lied to you dear ones... and I know you don't think me lying now... and you know who to go to to ask. Just keep in mind that if you WANT the truth... it is what will be given you... and if you don't, you will receive nothing, at least from him. And that, as we have seen for quite some time now, the truth isn't at all close to what we were taught (about him and the Father) by religion.

Again, the greatest of love and peace to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

With Our Lord just recently, PHYSICALLY, resurrected, it would have been dangerous for Mary to have touched his body.
Some view that passages as implying that His body was not material (enough?) to be touched yet.
Either way ( I believe that because He was not yet fully formed "in the flesh" it would have been dangerous for Mary to touch him) Mary couldn't touch Him yet because of the state of His physical body.

Interesting comments, dear P (peace to you, dear brother!). I agree, it absolutely would have been dangerous... for Mary. As and for the reason I shared above. I cannot tell, but it seems you believe it was dangerous for our dear Lord. If that's so, can you clarify/elaborate on this, especially as to the particular danger for him?

Thank you much and, again, peace to you... and to your dear household, as well!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Paul this quote of mine here only refers to the childhood experiences that Shelby shared on page 2. It has nothing to do with the original thread question. Just clarifying.

Peace
Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Greetings to you ALL today,

Appreciate all the comments here. I would like to add my thoughts.

I realize as Shel said, peace to you my sister, that for some, the verses that describe our Lord as a child and his reactions and power that he used and misused on occasions might be hard to grasp.

But for ME I am not discouraged in any way and don't have a problem believing this could happen. It makes my heart actually happy. I know that sounds strange maybe for some.
But I'm not happy in that I'm glad these things happened. But happy in that it fully drives home some things for me.

Shelby mentioned several verses but one that makes my heart happy is Hebrews 4:15;

" For we have as High Priest, not one who CANNOT SYMPATHIZE with our weaknesses, but ONE WHO HAS BEEN TESTED IN ALL RESPECTS LIKE OURSELVES"...

The words ALL respects really hit home for me. He knows TRULY how we feel.

Some...especially ones that may have a hard time believing our Lord could do some of these things as a child may say, "I may be this or that but at least I've never killed anyone before." Knowing what we've learned about life and spirit in all creation and the " binding in our hearts the things on the earth"...how dangerous hatred in our hearts can be... puts a whole new light on our accountability and debt to Jah. Therefore can we truthfully say that?

So for me personally, I am grateful to know this about our Lord. To know he has truly walked in our shoes. Not the way religion teaches. That he was perfect out the gate and never made mistakes in the flesh that was sinFUL not sinLESS that he received from his mother.

So anywho, just my thoughts and how I personally feel about knowing these accounts.

Love, your sister and fellow servant of our wonderful Lord Jaheshua MischaJah, Kim

May you all have peace.

I'm not really sure what to add. I have read that gospel before, and I also knew that my Lord afterward forgave and healed those who had been harmed. I did not always know about the power that my Lord has and how that power can work. So while I know it can be a hard read for some, I think that it is something that we are now able to understand because of all that we have learned.

Also... we know Him, or at least we should know Him. He gave His life for us; He continues to teach us; to forgive us; to love us. My Lord is the same as He has always been. The same Lord that I know and love. Whatever His experiences as a child, whatever He learned from them and from His Father (love - he learned love and forgiveness and mercy) - I am grateful for all of it. Because He is who He is - He has not changed. We just happen to know more about the struggle He underwent as a child while learning - to control the power He had; to choose the right and reject the wrong.

Personally I think that just shows how much love and strength He truly has; considering how young He was when He had to learn; considering how thoroughly He learned this - to the point that even through the torture and the mocking and lying and betraying and even His crucifixion and death, He showed only love, mercy, forgiveness. It makes me appreciate even more how much love is in Him for His Father and for us. I mean... He didn't have to suffer anything that He suffered. He truly didn't. He could have stopped His ordeal at any time. He did not. He endured, out of love. He taught and forgave and loved. He was taunted, beaten, mocked, lied about, betrayed, and killed. What did He do through it all? He was silent; or He spoke truth; or He tried to teach people and reason with them; He forgave and asked forgiveness for us; and He gave His life for ours.


Everything He has done and continues to do is out of love for us, and of course His Father who also love us.



Peace again to you all, as my Lord gives peace,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

It would have been dangerous for Mary, yes.