xjwsforChrist

May you all have peace!

As most of you know, rarely have I attended a JW event over the past 25 years and NOT have received something from my Lord. It is almost always something new, something I had not known/thought of before, or put together so as to discern the truth. At times, I have been directed to share such with you. On a few occasions, I have been directed to approach and speak with the event speaker and last night was no exception. And what I was able to share with him and with you dear ones now is sublime, IMHO.

The discussion centered around some of the usual "points" brought out at a JW Memorial, those having to do with two "hopes," the one being "heavenly" and the other "earthly," and of course, who eats/drinks, who does not, and... remember this... OBEDIENCE [to God]. And, as usual, the point as to the "heavenly" hope was (purported to be) supported by Revelation 14:1 which, as we all know is used by the WTBTS to push that only 144,000 go to heaven:

"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads."

Supposedly, this verse "proves" that ONLY 144,000 go to heaven because they are the only ones John sees standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion. Seems plausible.

He then used their other "go to" set of verses to support another "hope," Isaiah 11:6-9 for folks who would stay on earth:

"The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb,
And with the young goat the leopard will lie down,
And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together;
And a little boy will lead them.
The cow and the bear will feed together,
And their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat straw like the bull.
The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea."

Supposedly these verses "prove" that some do NOT go to heaven because they include animals (at least, that's how the speaker explained it during our discussion, which I will get to in a sec). Also sounds plausible.

Except... and here is what I was directed to discuss with the speaker... both refer to events that occur... either "on Mount Zion" or in God's "holy mountain."

As I was sitting there listening to the speaker read Isaiah 11:9, my dear Lord asked me:

"Is not my Father's holy mountain the Mountain Sion?"

I was, like, wait... what, Lord? Well, yeah... yes! Yes, it is!

He then asked me,

"Then you are going to share that truth with the man?" (and he said his name, but I won't post it for the man's privacy - you never know who lurks here and who knows who and it is not my intent to persecute him here).

To which I said, "Of course I will, Lord, yes!"

And so, right after the event had ended I went up and introduced myself to the speaker, complimented him on giving a
"lovely discourse" (and he DID present it in a very lovely way: gently, quietly, no fire and brimstone-ness, even if not truthFUL) and asked if I could have a moment of his time because there was something he'd said that "was confusing and seemed 'contradictory.'" He graciously agreed and so we sat down together.

I showed him Revelation 14:1 and said I was confused as to how that meant ONLY 144,000 would be in heaven... as far as "heaven" meant Mount Zion, when the other verses he shared (and then showed him Isaiah 11:6-9 showed folks THERE as ALSO being [in] God's "holy mountain." I asked him,

"Isn't God's holy mountain Mount Zion?"

His initial response was that Mount Sinai was God's holy mountain... which I had to kindly correct:

"I'm not sure that's accurate. Wasn't Mount Zion God's holy mountain because THAT is where His holy CITY and TEMPLE were built?

[At that moment, I heard that the man had seen the movie "Exodus" and recalled that in that film the character "Zipporah" told the character "Moses" that Mount Sinai was "God's mountain" and so that's really where he got that from, but was also leaning upon the WTBTS' false teaching as to Revelation 14:1. Which teaching, I might add, flies in the face of their own... ummmm... teaching, because the RNWT cross-references Isaiah 51:3; 56:7; and 65:25 as to the term "holy mountain" at Isaiah 11:9. Somehow, though, this man apparently doesn't know that. I am SURE he will look it up and SEE that, though, if for no other reason than to prove himself and the WTBTS "right" and me "wrong." I digress.]

I pressed on:

"The Jews don't consider Sinai God's holy mountain, though, do they, and I'm not sure Christians do either, because that was BEFORE God even DESIGNATED a holy mountain... right?"

To which he conceded his error (c'mon, he HAD to, as "Sinai" made absolutely NO sense... AND he probably remembered he only thought it because he'd heard it in a movie... that he probably wouldn't want anyone to know he even saw)... and apologized. At THAT point, I could literally SEE the tiny (very) light of TRUTH begin to go on behind his eyes as he thought about this. He then actually said,

"Yes, I can see that! I can see why you think that!

WHOOO-HOOO! Or, maybe not. In the very second after, I heard from my Lord to not get excited because "his training by the false prophets will allow him to dismiss this new TRUTH that he has just received." And so, just as quickly, I could "see" him seeking throughout his brain... and store of WTBTS teachings... for an explanation. Because this could NOT be right... right? BOTH places could NOT be the SAME mountain, else... no, no... can't be the same.

And so, I saw the light (of truth) flicker out, as the "light" of "knowledge" came on and he went on to say that the events in Isaiah could NOT be "heavenly" because there were animals in that account. I could also see the "triumph" in his eyes - ah, yes, THAT must be it! But it, too, was short-lived, because I responded,

"Yes, but God saves animals, too, does He not?"

This threw him, again, because he evidently did not believe God did and so responded that he didn't think so, to which I responded,

"Did He not save animals through the Flood?"

Again, a flicker of the light of TRUTH passed through his eyes, and he AGREED. Vehemently. Then... I could see him "searching" again, and he asked,

"So are you saying there are animals in HEAVEN??"

Hearing from my Lord not to go down THAT road as I would most assuredly lose him at this point... I said,

"I'm not saying THAT, but let me show you another verse," and took him to Revelation 21:2, which states:

"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. "

I asked him, "Wasn't the OLD Jerusalem situated on TOP of Mount Zion?" to which he answered in the affirmative.

I was then directed to have him read verse 3, which states:

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them."

and ask him,

"Does it say mankind will be with God... or GOD... will be with MANKIND?

I could almost smell the "smoke" as the "wheels" in his little-used thinking "parts" began to turn, this time. THIS time... his thinking had been cranked a little further past where it had ever been. I could almost see a look of pain... because this HURT, this new "exercise" of his thinking abilities!

But of course, then came the usual response:

"I'll have to do some research and get back to you on this. I need to have a Bible..."

Stutter, stutter, hem, haw... because we both HAD Bibles. His on the chair next to him, me on my android. But I didn't correct or press him. He, though, pressed ME and asked if I had ever had a Bible Study. I told him, truthfully, that I had actually studies with Jehovah's Witnesses at one point, but came to a point where I had to stop because they had a teaching and practice that I just could NOT reconcile with the teaching of Christ. Of course, his curiosity was peaked, and so he asked,

"What was it? What made you stop?"

OMGoodness, could he REALLY have just asked me that? Given me MORE time? Oh, sweet LORDY!

I said, "Let me show you," and took him to John 6:48-58.

I emphasized the word "anyone" in verses 50 and 51, and the phrases, "UNLESS you eat/drink," "NO life in yourselves," "EVERLASTING LIFE," "I WILL resurrect," and "remains in union with me and I union with them," and "will live BECAUSE of ME," in verses 51-58.

I said,

"See, that is what CHRIST said, said we are to DO, and I cannot reconcile NOT doing what he SAID, NOT being obedient to HIM. And HE said that UNLESS we eat his flesh and drink his blood, we have NO life in ourselves. How, then, can I even EXPECT everlasting life... resurrection... if I DON'T do what HE says I MUST do... in order to RECEIVE such?? So, no, I had to stop. God said we are to listen to HIS SON, and so I just COULDN'T disobey HIM... OR CHRIST... in this."

And again, I saw the light of truth go on in his eyes, this time, even brighter. I also saw great discomfort. And I immediately heard and so knew why: he was surprised at what he'd just read, that he'd never really "seen" those verses before, and that he, someone who was important enough to give a "MEMORIAL talk" didn't have words to explain... or refute... what I had just shown him.

Just as quickly, I saw the "wheels" being to turn, "searching." And... finding nothing. Which, unfortunately, resulted in a dismissal. Better to dismiss the whole thing, rather than even consider that the reason he COULDN'T find a response... is because the WTBTS had not actually GIVEN him one for THIS. At least, as far as he knew. Surely, they've responded... somewhere... somehow... and so, rather than allow this new truth to BLOOM... his training told him to shut down (any "contrary" talk). And so he did.

The light (of truth) went out, again.

And so I ended our discussion, but I was not discouraged, not at all. Because getting him to SEE... was not my point. Because before I even went up, I had asked my dear Lord whether this man would hear, COULD hear, and I was told that that was not MY concern. MY concern was to obey... and PLANT (the seed). It was up to JAH, through him (my Lord), whether to allow it to GROW.

And so I did it: planted a seed. I asked that it be allowed to grow, and will continue to ask, but I know it is not up to me nor my concern if it doesn't.

And there you have it. My 2015 WTBTS Memorial experience. I hope there is something encouraging in it for you dear ones. Maybe it will help those of you who need it, to rebut the WTBTS' false teaching of two hopes, at least as to the Body of Christ and there only being 144,000 who are part of the Bride and go to heaven (at least for a moment, while they are "married" to Christ, the Bridegroom). There are 144,000 from Israel, yes... as well as a great crowd out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people... and ALL, as part of the NEW Jerusalem, return to, and rule UPON the earth. NOT from "above" it.

They are on the earth, as are the sheep they rule over... and the animals and beasts they cohabitate with. They, as the NEW Jerusalem, come down OUT of heaven (after their marriage)... and it is by means of THEM, led by Christ, that God's WILL... IS done "ON EARTH [the physical realm]... AS it is done in heaven [the spirit realm]."

The greatest of love and peace to you ALL... and to your dear households.

Your servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... sister... and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

Oh, that is awesome, Shelby, that you were given that to share with the speaker and also with us!

Listening to the talk last night, that teaching is what I knew would stand in the way of some being able to hear Him, even if they do see and read what He said ABOUT eating and drinking of Him. (all the phrases that you list above that you gave the man when he asked about why you stopped) Because that is what this doctrine does... stands in the way and takes the focus OFF Christ and obeying His word, and places the focus instead on this 'earthly verses heavenly hope'.


And the people don't even notice that they are not obeying Christ. His word - the Truth - is buried beneath a false 'light' and a lie that they believe is the truth instead.



In any case, YES! Mount Zion, God's holy mountain, these are the same place... and so those in/on both are in/on the same place. What a wonderful truth given from our Lord, that we may now also give to others who need this!



Peace and love to you!
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Good Morning Shelby!..

I love your stories..
Especially when it messes with peoples heads..LOL!!..
If your going to be a believer,at least know what you believe and why..
JW`s seem to miss that whole part of it..LOL!!..


Ok..
So now I have to ask..
If there is a Heaven..Am I getting my Dog back?..
I really liked that friggin dog..LOL!!..

...................................OUTLAW

_________________

Aw, Outlaw. When he was a kid, my husband accidentally ran over his dog and killed him (farm boys, ya know). A catholic priest told him animals did not get a resurrection. It hurt him so bad, he stopped believing in God. I think if he was to learn that animals also came back, he might become a believer.

Well, we could just opine and speculate, but how about we look at this from a logical perspective, dear Sher'f and At (and the greatest of love and peace to you, both!):

God is love. Because of that love He sent His Son to save mankind. Many of mankind love other humans because of the PERSON such ones are. Dogs... and cats... and cows... and butterflies... are persons, too, though. We might like to THINK there is no difference, but I think everyone HERE will concede that animals do have individual personalities.

Okay, but is there any EVIDENCE that God would resurrect animals, too? I offer that there is on the basis that resurrection is the fulfillment of the "antitype" that was (1) coming through the Flood, and (2) passing through the Red Sea. BOTH of those events are the antitypes of being "baptized into" Christ. They were precursors to baptism in the Jordan/water, which were antitypes and precursors to being baptized... with HOLY SPIRIT... INTO Christ. Into his "Body." All of these, passing through the Flood, passing through the Red Sea, being passed through the Jordan/baptized in a body of water... indicate a cleansing... washing... with the "water" of life... or BLOOD of Christ... or... holy spirit.

And in the first two... animals passed through, too. MANY animals.

Why? Why not just make new animals (after the Flood)... or have Israel capture new animals (from the lands across the Jordan)? And why... MAKE A COVENANT WITH ANIMALS... if they were of no importance to Him? Yet, He did make a covenant with them:

"And JaHVeH said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between JaHVeH and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

So JaHVeH said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.” Genesis 9:10, 12, 15-17

But more so than that covenant... or other covenants... what of the PROMISE of NO more pain and NO more outcry? If you were God, and you PROMISED people who put faith in you, served you, belonged to you, that they would mourn NO more... would you give THEM life... and not give those persons they LOVE life, as well?

This is the promise as to HOUSEHOLDS. There is pain in living without those you love. Wondering "where" they are, "how" they're doing. Or even if you don't as to that, the pain associated with knowing that you'll NEVER see them again. Ever. They're just gone. Indeed, it is the HOPE... OF seeing loved ones AGAIN, along with living forever, that MAKES a resurrection DESIRABLE. Any one of us, if we were promise life FOREVER... but without our spouses, children, grandchildren, or others that we love... who would take it? Who would WANT it?

And for some of us, our pets are part of our household and among our loved ones. You all certainly know this is true for me! With the exception of maybe fish, I remember EVERY pet I've ever had (well, since I was old enough to understand such things). Every dog, every cat, every bird, every hamster, every turtle, every rabbit. Why? Because... they were ALL individuals. Their own PERSON. With their own name and personality. And I mourned and missed them when, for whatever reason, I/we lost them. Technically or literally.

And I look forward to seeing them all again, in the (re)newed life, the recreation. Will I recognize them? I'm not sure - I don't know what kind of vessel/body they will have. But I will KNOW them, at least as far as the "person" they are. Well, maybe not the fish and turtles... or hamsters - LOLOL! But I will know the birds, rabbits, cats... and absolutely the dogs.

So, LOGICALLY speaking, I can't see how anyone who claims to belong to CHRIST, can say that animals won't be resurrected. As one person, led by holy spirit, wrote:

"Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

Knowing Christ as I do, I can say, with all conviction, the fate of humans IS like that of animals, as the fate of animals is that of humans. And while the same fate awaits some humans who show themselves to be goats... there is a fate that awaits some who show themselves to be sheep. And that same fate awaits some, if not all, of our animal brethren.

BUT... no one has to take MY word for this. There is One who each and every man can go to and ask. All one has to do is do that, and then put faith in what one HEARS from that One.

I hope this helps, dear, dear Sher'f, and perhaps even your dear hubby, dear At.

As always, peace to you both, and to your households!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Thank you for the reply Shelby..
If there is a Heaven..
It`s nice to know I`m getting my dog back..
He`ll probably want a dog treat and a belly rub..LOL!!..

................................OUTLAW

_________________

Hey Ataloa!..

Ya we do get attached to our pets..
It sucks when we lose them..
I`m not very good at that..

.................................OUTLAW

_________________

Greetings


How could the blood of animals be of enough VALUE to atone for mans sins and not be of enough value for JAH to save? Resurrect ?

Since it was He that asked of their blood for US, a God that IS love would not just forget about them and the ultimate sacrifices they continually made ?

They have a different vessel but they can share the same Holy Spirit we do!

( apologize on iPhone. Too small)

Peace, your servant and sister ofChrist Kim

YES, dear 'Mom... YES, YES (and peace to you, luv)!

OUR blood has NEVER been able to atone for our sins... and never WILL. But the blood of animals HAS.

THANK you for that truth, dear, dear sister!

Peace to you, dear FC, and your entire household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Shelby,
If I may, did you tell the Brother your status in the Congregation?

Justmom, yes, thank you for sharing that too!



Also Psalm 2:6

I have installed my King on Zion, my holy mountain.


Just in case there is any doubt on Zion BEING the holy mountain.



Peace to you all, and I think I gotta run do something...


your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

I love the way you/our Lord handled that speaker. Wonderful stuff! Spot on too.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Beautiful reasoning! I think this one has been rolling around in my mind but I hadn't been able to get it formed into a proper thought. My thought was around Isa 2:2,3:

2 In the final part of the days,
The mountain of the house of Jehovah
Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,
And it will be raised up above the hills,
And to it all the nations will stream.
 3 And many peoples will go and say:
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,
To the house of the God of Jacob.
He will instruct us about his ways,
And we will walk in his paths.”
For law will go out of Zion,
And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.

WT applies this to ALL JWs.



I had recently (in the past few months) started wondering about the "mountain" and "Zion", but for some reason, I couldn't get the thought from my brain to my lips. Thank JAH and His Son for revealing this to you, and for sharing with us!!!

~LQ

Greetings and peace to you, dear Johnz! I have to assume you mean WTBTS congregation (of which I am no longer a part... PRAISE JAH... by THEIR choice first, mind you)... versus the Congregation of the Firstborn (of which I am a current member, hopefully in good standing, but it's not for ME to say). Either way, the topic never came up. The speaker didn't raise it and I didn't offer... as to either.

Make no mistake, though, dear one: Had he asked, as to either, I would have responded directly, forthrightly, and honestly. Re the WTBTS I would honestly responded that I had been expelled from THEIR synagogue (public meeting place)... but welcomed such because it had been due to my loyalty to Christ. And so who of us who CLAIM to be Christians would NOT welcome such for the sake of Christ?

If he asked as to the other... perhaps "who do you fellowship with"... or as some non-JWs ask, "What church do [I] attend/go to"... I would have responded as I always do when asked such questions:

"I fellowship with Christ and HIS Body"... and "I AM church. God does not dwell in handmade temples but in His people. And where two or more of His people are gathered... in Christ... THERE God AND Christ are." John 14:23

To just say, "Oh, hey, I'm disfellowshipped [as an apostate because I received holy spirit and realized what the WTBTS teaches is false and that in fact they are false prophets, full of false christs aka "anointed", hellbent on misleading EVEN the TRUE anointed], but hey, I gotta a few questions for ya"... no, that didn't happen. Never would.

One can't be cautious as a serpent yet innocent as a dove if one puts forth a means for another to lock the door before ever opening it, luv... right?

Very wise advice from my dear Lord, IMHO. I'm sure you agree.

Peace to you and your household!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shel

Shelby,
Tell the Congregation who you are. Do not try to hide it just because the Brother failed to inquire about your status. You mislead him. Tell him the truth. I'm not against you.