xjwsforChrist

Non-Religious Christian Spirituality
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:23 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 1255
Yes, and so now we understand why blood wasn't to be 'eaten'. That would've interfered with its purpose. That of being poured out on the ground to 'cry out' for mercy/vengeance.

How badly the WTBS construed the meaning of this!

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:19 am
Posts: 3394
Not ignoring the thread, or all of the beautiful responses given. I love the deeper understanding about love being given. There may be more... but what a PEARL (or piece to the puzzle as Shelby put it) to find along the way!

Peace and love to you all,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 pm
Posts: 5093
Quote:
Don't get me wrong... I was seeking clarification regarding the avenging of blood spoken about in Revelation. I'm not judging... just seeking to understand.


I certainly didn't take you as judging, dear LQ (peace to you!) in ANY sense. The same thought as to those under the altar came to me and to dear 'Mom (peace to you, too, luv!), as well. Heck, that's a MAJOR scripture that MANY... and particularly the WTBTS... use to lead us to thinking we DESERVE vengeance.

Next to Christ, however, Abel deserves it more than anyone else: he was only the fourth person to come into this world in the flesh. So he didn't really have a lot of folks to sin AGAINST. And he didn't go the route of Adam, Eve, OR Cain. Yet, even he sinned... somehow. Because ALL (have) sin(ned).

Was it Abel's animal sacrifices that covered HIS sin(s), though? I mean, there should be no doubt that that was what they were FOR (remember, the Law Covenant was merely the PHYSICALLY written form - all who came before Moses had the Law written on their hearts! Rebellious Israel had FORGOTTEN the Law... and so had to have it written on stone).

But just as with the written code, Abel's sacrifices only covered so much and for so long. Maybe for him, it was LONGER (i.e., more than a year). But regardless, it wasn't for ETERNITY. So, he still needed FULL atonement.

What, though, if SOME, if not MOST, of his transgressions were covered... by his LOVE? That THAT is why HIS sacrifices were more acceptable than Cain's? Love covers... does it not... a MULTITUDE of transgressions. And Abel would have only had so many. Or should I say so few?

Cain's sacrifices were not acceptable. Why? Because he DIDN'T have love. As evidenced by his anger... and ultimate deed. Abel, on the other hand, had love. Love is what made HIS sacrifices acceptable. 1 John 3:11, 12 If he loved, then, and particularly his brother, he wouldn't have sought vengeance, even in death.

And we have an example of that, in Christ, yes... but in another: Joseph. He not only could have sought vengeance, but as the second in command under Pharaoh, literally had it carried out. Or at least denied his brothers grain. He didn't. By means of his LOVE... he was able to FORGIVE his brothers... even though they had technically killed him! Some would have done it had one of their brothers not stopped them. His father certainly thought he was dead... and that's the story the brothers told.

Rather than looking for vengeance for what they did, though, Joseph forgave them. First, because of his LOVE... for his FATHER. Second, because of his love... for his FULL brother (Benjamin, who these also loved). Third, because these loved his father, as well (remember, they were devastated when they thought they wouldn't be able to return Benjamin to Israel (Jacob). They showed some regret. Even if they hadn't, and although he WAS disappointed in them, he still LOVED them.

Had they actually killed him, would Joseph have called out for vengeance against them... or asked for forgiveness for them? He would have asked for forgiveness. Indeed, he would have given his OWN life so that THEY could live. THAT is why Israel (Jacob) loved HIM the most out of all of his sons.

And that is why JAH loved Abel more... and was pleased with HIS sacrifices: because Abel was "clean" INSIDE... PARTICULARLY loving his brother.

Peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:19 am
Posts: 3394
Quote:
This... puzzle... that is God (and Christ)... is utterly fascinating to me, as it "unfolds." EVERY "piece" fits with the others based on ONE thing: love. NOT love as WE know it (i.e., loving our children, spouses, "blood" relations, friends... and those who love us)... but SURPASSING love. Love that includes EVEN one's enemies. Certainly, someone that murders us... and both Abel AND our dear Lord were murdered... is an enemy. Yet, these showed love... for their enemies.

May OUR blood.... our life... our SPIRIT... "speak" for US... in the same way.



And now I have been given understanding. Because from my dream, the important thing was that the blood spoke for the person. So what did that have to do with crying out for mercy for others?

We know that Christ invites in the sheep but not the goats, into the Kingdom. We know that at the end of the thousand years, the dead are resurrected - some to life and some to judgment, according to what is written in their books.

We ALSO know that Jah may have mercy upon whomever He chooses!

Remember our Lord's words here:

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

Show mercy, receive mercy!

So this... this is like a last chance to SHOW mercy... even if a person failed to do so in their life (for whatever reason... extreme pain, illness, abuse, etc, who knows? Jah knows; I do not)... so as to receive that mercy from Jah. It cannot be faked. Because the blood SPEAKS, and Jah hears... whether that blood cries out for mercy for others or for vengeance. Nothing is hidden from Him. But not ONE will ever slip through the cracks... nor will there ever be a question that one might have slipped through the cracks. Because every chance has been given to ensure that the merciful will RECEIVE mercy just as they ASK for mercy to be shown to those who have wronged THEM.


Or Father, and our Lord... praise be to them both. They are faithful, and true, and loving, and wise, and merciful, and just. True justice... and without mercy, there is no true justice.


Praise Jah and His Son Jaheshua, for these truths, and for revealing these beautiful and love inspiring truths to us. May we all learn from them, and learn this same love, and thank both Jah and His Son, for the times that we fail, that we have our Lord Jaheshua's blood to speak FOR us.


May you all have peace, as Jaheshua gives us HIS peace, and love,
your servant, and sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 pm
Posts: 5093
Quote:
So this... this is like a last chance to SHOW mercy... even if a person failed to do so in their life (for whatever reason... extreme pain, illness, abuse, etc, who knows? Jah knows; I do not)... so as to receive that mercy from Jah. It cannot be faked. Because the blood SPEAKS, and Jah hears... whether that blood cries out for mercy for others or for vengeance. Nothing is hidden from Him. But not ONE will ever slip through the cracks... nor will there ever be a question that one might have slipped through the cracks. Because every chance has been given to ensure that the merciful will RECEIVE mercy just as they ASK for mercy to be shown to those who have wronged THEM.


Sometimes... don't you just want to cry (peace to you, all!)? Not from pain... but from the JOY at the BEAUTY that truly is the love of God and Christ? We, in our puny HUMAN arrogance of "understanding"... think we "know" something. Like love. Think we know love. And then... this. On TOP of what our dear Lord has ALREADY revealed to us! When or where will it END?? I keep thinking, "Ahhhh, so THIS is love!"... and then... he takes me another level. To another... glory. From glory... to glory.

We think we know SO much. If we did, then we would KNOW... that we KNOW... nothing at all. As our dear brother Socrates said.

I was going to say that I don't about YOU dear ones, but... but I know that, like me... you are humbled by this particular truth. I know you are because, through Christ, I know you. Maybe not all of your external "dirt," but certainly enough of your INTERNAL "beauty," the beauty of your spirits... to know that what our dear, dear Tams... and the greatest of love and peace to you, dear sister... has shared... has humbled you. Even if just a tad.

As Paul wrote... oh, the ways of JAH... who can know it? What I find utterly fascinating is that, through His Christ, our dear Lord, JAHESHUA, the HOLY One of Israel, Holy Spirit, and Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... we keep being led FORWARD! Think of it, dear ones: when he has EVER taken us a step BACKWARD? Never, that I can think of.

So sublime, dear Tams. Truly... sublime. Thank you... and JAH and Christ... for sharing that.

Peace to you, ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:40 pm
Posts: 714
Quote:
Wouldn't it be better... more loving... safer... CHRIST-LIKE... to seek MERCY for those who (try to) "murder" us... in SPIRIT, as well as in flesh... than to seek VENGEANCE? I mean, it's not like vengeance belongs to US, anyway. Right?

Yes, it would be more Christ-like, but I have to admit I don't feel that way most of the time. Through facebook and other means, over the years I have come to find out some of the people who have left my old Hall, seemingly left the Org, and I am SO happy for them. But I am also happy when I find some who do have murderous spirits are still in there - because I want them to share in her plagues. They deserve it - they've had plenty of chances to have their eyes and hearts opened, but they did not want it. Only if they CHANGED, would I feel sorry for them.

Quote:
So this... this is like a last chance to SHOW mercy... even if a person failed to do so in their life (for whatever reason... extreme pain, illness, abuse, etc, who knows? Jah knows; I do not)... so as to receive that mercy from Jah. It cannot be faked. Because the blood SPEAKS, and Jah hears... whether that blood cries out for mercy for others or for vengeance. Nothing is hidden from Him. But not ONE will ever slip through the cracks... nor will there ever be a question that one might have slipped through the cracks. Because every chance has been given to ensure that the merciful will RECEIVE mercy just as they ASK for mercy to be shown to those who have wronged THEM.



I don't have any deep understanding of all this yet, but I have learned one thing - blood doesn't lie.
It seems that our essence is contained in that. Even without the 'books', I think a person could be judged from the resurrected blood. Forensic science...yeah. Proof for those saying "Lord, Lord, didn't we......."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 1255
These comments may not exactly fit here, but I feel compelled to add them.

I've studied the holocaust in detail, visited Berlin and a concentration camp...I am feeling overwhelmed by the thoughts of the outcry of the blood of those tortured and killed there. Similarly, I've studied US slavery and feel just as overwhelmed by the oppression and deaths of those victims. It all beggars belief.

I can't imagine the sorrow that would reach our Father Jah and His son Jaheshua at these atrocities. It must have been almost unbearable.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm
Posts: 2461
Loz wrote:
These comments may not exactly fit here, but I feel compelled to add them.

I've studied the holocaust in detail, visited Berlin and a concentration camp...I am feeling overwhelmed by the thoughts of the outcry of the blood of those tortured and killed there. Similarly, I've studied US slavery and feel just as overwhelmed by the oppression and deaths of those victims. It all beggars belief.

I can't imagine the sorrow that would reach our Father Jah and His son Jaheshua at these atrocities. It must have been almost unbearable.

Loz x



Overwhelmed.....YES!!!!! I hear you my sister!!!!

Almost unbearable for Jah and His Son....YES, as well!

Not only the extent of the blood that has been sacrificed over millineums either intentionally or unintentionally BUT....how much of it individuals have done while "professioning" a union with them.

Truly, overwhelming for me!

Peace, Love and Jahs continued mercy upon us ALL, your sister and fellow slave of Jah and His son Jaheshua MischaJah, Kim


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:19 am
Posts: 3394
Quote:
Yes, it would be more Christ-like, but I have to admit I don't feel that way most of the time. Through facebook and other means, over the years I have come to find out some of the people who have left my old Hall, seemingly left the Org, and I am SO happy for them. But I am also happy when I find some who do have murderous spirits are still in there - because I want them to share in her plagues. They deserve it - they've had plenty of chances to have their eyes and hearts opened, but they did not want it. Only if they CHANGED, would I feel sorry for them.



I understand how hard it can be to forgive others - and ask mercy for them and love them - especially those who have wronged/hurt us tremendously, and wronged/hurt those we love so tremendously.


I may not have been hurt by anyone the way that you or others here have been hurt. I do not know. So I mean NO judgment at all in anything that I will share, but hope only that something in what I share may help YOU on this matter.

I cannot want someone else to share in any plague, or any punishment. I cannot. I have hurt others - including loved ones - in ignorance, in lack of love, in selfishness/neglect. I know the remorse and shame that I have when I REALIZE what I have done, either when I see the consequential results or my Lord shows me. So how can I hope for mercy for myself, if I don't also hope for mercy for others?


I have found it incredibly humbling to see my own failings and sins, and consequences of them - and that doesn't leave much room to want others to share in 'her' sins or to be punished... OVER... waking up and coming to Christ, and/or being forgiven and shown mercy. This is what I receive and hope for myself and my loved ones. So I can't want anything else for others.

I CAN want them to stop hurting others; I CAN speak against their lies; I CAN show them their sin... in the hopes that they TURN and repent and come to Christ. Just as Christ does by calling His people OUT of 'her' so they do not share in her fate, even though while in 'her', they perhaps caused harm to others as well, until they learned better.


Might I have a harder time if it was my CHILD that someone else hurt? Probably. But Christ can help us even then, and we can always ask for whatever fruit of the spirit that we need so as to be able to forgive and ask for mercy, as He has taught us.

So it is not that giving mercy and forgiveness or even asking for mercy and forgiveness of our enemies is EASY, as I know that you know. Easier for me NOW than it was a few years ago, because of coming to know my Lord more fully as He continues to teach me and all of us more about love, true love. But there have been times in the past where I have been unable to pray for someone, fearing that perhaps I should not, that this person is TOO 'bad' to ask forgiveness for, etc.

Well, that is not what Christ and God teach us - by word or by example. That is what MAN has taught us, and we have to shake those chains OFF.

Whereas we are free to love all people - friend and enemy. We are free to ask for mercy for all people - again friend and enemy. We are free to forgive all people - friend and enemy. And it is FREEING in and of itself to ask for mercy for others, to forgive others. If there is vengeance to be had then it belongs to God and God alone, and leaving that to Him, too, is freeing. He will NOT convict an innocent. We -man- has proven that we WILL, even if just out of ignorance.


I would like to share with you something that happened with me that helped me and perhaps this will also help you. A while ago, I did not know that I could forgive someone(s) for something. In fact, at the time I could not do this. I knew that was wrong, but I just couldn't do it. When I prayed I admitted as much (God knows what is in our heart, so there is no point in trying to hide it), but I asked HIM to forgive them even though I could not yet do it myself.

Well, as soon as I asked, a wave of peace washed over me... and I ALSO forgave this person/people. Maybe I could not ask of God what I was not willing to also do. Maybe upon asking forgiveness for my 'enemies', I was given whatever fruit of the spirit that I needed to be able to also forgive, when before I could not. Perhaps both.


But in asking forgiveness for my 'enemies' the burden and weight of anger and resentment was lifted from me, and I too forgave them.



I hope that something in the above may help, Ataloa. I know this is a hard one. But Christ does not ever lead us wrong. Ever.


Peace and love to you, as Christ gives these things,
your servant and sister, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:00 am
Posts: 350
In addition to what Tammy said, we might think that ONLY God or Christ forgive "easier" that we can. And for the most part, perhaps this is true. We might think that the difficulty in forgiving others is too difficult for us. I was reminded by our Lord of our brother, Stephen. When he was being stoned, what did he utter before he fell asleep in death? He said (Act 7:59-60):

"59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep."

So we CAN do it. It's not impossible for us. Isn't being killed (literally) the worst thing someone CAN DO to us? So, if Stephen can forgive it, can't we forgive the lesser offenses committed against us? Sure we can.

May you ALL have Peace--as our Lord--the Amen--gives it.

--Armand


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm
Posts: 2461
YES.....

Beautiful sharing from you both Tammy and Armando.

Sometimes even when we cannot bring our hearts to a place we know it should be...One of Love...
Our Father knows we want his will to take place ( or at least we should want his will to be done) and that with his help we will get there. This is how our Lord stands in the " gap" for us as an offering to atone where WE fall short.

And yes Armando, even when being put to death by his enemies, our dear brother in Christ Stephen prayed for their forgiveness.

Shouldn't the lesser offenses be easier?

Wonderful reminders to humble us all.
Thank you again for sharing them,
Peace to you all from our Lord and Father Jah, your sister in Christ, Kim


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:40 pm
Posts: 714
Maybe I could ask God to forgive them, but I just don't WANT to. I don't have that desire. It would be a lie. Oh, I don't want anyone tortured or anything like that; I just want them gone. I know that means I probably won't be forgiven either, and it seems unfair. I know it's not. I know what the bible says about stuff like that, but I'm just not there yet. I know you're all just trying to help, and thank you, but when I'm in a dark place, I don't feel generous, and now my blood is going to tell on me. I just wanted to be honest about my feelings because I'm afraid I might be about to run amok.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:19 am
Posts: 3394
Ataloa, sister, ask for help from Christ. Ask for forgiveness you where you are falling short until the time comes that you CAN do as He has taught, and then just put faith in Him that He has heard you and will teach you, and will give you whatever fruit of the spirit that you need to do as He has said. Please don't think that you can't be forgiven, love. THAT kind of thinking gives room for the Adversary to get a foothold and exploit your fears or 'dark place', to get you to turn your back on Christ, or doubt Him and His words.

Again, I did not mean at all to make you feel as though you could not be forgiven. Christ knows us - better than we know ourselves. He stands in the gap for us when we cannot stand for ourselves. Even when we know better (and I am speaking about me and my recent two weeks of worrying and being heartsick over a personal matter... and for what? My Lord provided the way out, praise Jah and His Son, but thank God that my Lord Jaheshua stood in the gap for me when I was being so weak and faithless)

I think my point is that even though you THINK you CAN'T get through or do what He asks... you can, with HIS help. Might seem IMPOSSIBLE, but what is impossible with man is possible with God.

Just go to Christ, Ataloa, and ask Him to help you to do as He teaches, and put faith in Him and in His Father that you are heard and that He can and will help you. In the meantime, just keep listening to Him. You follow Him. He will teach you along the way. If you want to obey Him and do as He says, then ask HIM to help you to do that, and ask God to soften whatever part of you needs to be softened so that you CAN do this.

Listen to Christ. Follow Him - and of course you are going to stumble at times. Just keep getting back up, just keep following. Just keep listening. Let Him teach you... what you think is impossible might not happen over night, but you keep holding on to Him, not letting go, not letting anything or anyone - including yourself - turn you away from Him.


I will keep you in my prayers also, dear sister.


May you be given peace and strength and love, as Christ gives these things,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 pm
Posts: 5093
Dear 'At... the greatest of love and peace to you, dear, dear sister... and here is what I was give by our dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) to share with you:

He KNOWS how hard it is for us to forgive. It wasn't EASY for him (goodness, imagine how hard it is to give your LIFE... for folks you KNOW not only hate, but will do WHATEVER to EXTERMINATE yoU!)... as it wasn't always easy for our dear Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies (recall His words to Moses when He was all but fed up with Israel! "Let me just wipe all of THEM out and then make a nation out of YOU!").

How do WE, those of his Body, SURPASS this difficulty? With love. NOT love for those who've harmed us... but love... for HIM. SUCH that... we OBEY HIM. And HE said that we MUST love our enemies... and pray FOR them. Yes?

So, rather than worrying about having a change of heart, why not just start at OBEDIENCE... to HIM. "I am doing this, dear Lord, asking you/the Father to forgive this person, because YOU said I MUST do so. I love YOU... and so, because I love YOU... I will do as you ask. In return, I ask that you grant me the fruit of of our dear Father's (holy) spirit that is love... long-suffering... and self control. "

Then... let go... and let... God... THROUGH Christ.

Truly, dear sister, that is the gist of what he gave me to share with you. He is NOT asking you to be perfect... except in love. STARTING with the Father, and so him. He IS asking you, though, to be obedient. For your OWN sake... and, perhaps, your entire household.

I, SA, have shared with you what I received from my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). And I have to ask you: truly, what do you have to LOSE by being OBEDIENT to him? On the other hand, what do you have to lose... by not?

Love... "does not look out for its own interest," dear sister. If you love HIM... prove it. By doing what he SAID:

"If YOU forgive others THEIR trespasses against YOU, your heavenly Father will forgive YOUR trespasses."

I hope this helps.

Truly, peace... in the way Christ gives it... to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:13 am
Posts: 216
Quote:
I was thinking the animals were suffering, were trying to get away from being killed, get away from being sacrificed, and depending on the type of sin, then the type of animal was sacrificed—from little pigeon to great big bulls. This just shows how sinful or sins actually are, so much so, that they needed various kinds of animals for various kinds of sinful transgressions, and ALL THE WHILE they are pleading for us while being sacrificed!!!!


This is why I prefer animals, so much love.

What happens if we are seeking vengence after we die? If someone murdered me i don't know whether i would be begging for mercy or seeking revenge. Do we have control over that once we are dead?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group