xjwsforChrist

May you all have peace!

Some time ago we engaged in a discussion on the topic of cremation. At that time, I shared what I received from my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) as to why cremation was something those of his Body should seriously reconsider: the utter destruction of DNA, which COULD prohibit resurrection. I shared that even up to the time of my Lord in the flesh, Israel/Jews buried versus burned their dead.

You can find that discussion here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=745&p=19347&hilit=cremation#p19347

Today, I wish to share with you that while I cannot personally prove to you that this was indeed the thinking and practice of both the Jews/Israelites AND early Christian Body, this truth is corroborated by someone who is considered an expert on such things (to the extent he was consulted on a very important archaeological matter related to the Vatican... or rather, what's under the Vatican). Dr. Mark Spigelman (you can find info on him here: http://www.scirp.org/journal/DetailedIn ... sonID=7984).

This evening, while watching a show ("Mystery of the Lost Catacombs" - which explored two of the mass graves under the Vatican and theorized as to the cause of death for the thousands of bodies found in them), the primary archaeologists on the case theorized that the graves were of 2nd century (based on coins found in the grave) Christians persecuted and murdered by the Romans. Although none of the bodies demonstrated broken bones, smashed skulls, or other evidence of violence/trauma, they based their theory on (1) the number of bodies (over 2,000); (2) the timing (Christians were still being persecuted well into the 2nd century); and (3) some "white" powder found in the graves (which they believed to be lime, which the Romans often used when burying their dead - even these were Christians, based on the artifacts found in the graves as well as their location).

When the lime was analyzed and found to be some kind of plaster and not lime, they then believed that perhaps these had been poisoned, maybe even participated in a mass suicide. So, they took their theory to Dr. Spigeman (a "go to" man on topic of early Christian deaths, particularly from disease)... and here is what I wish to share with you dear ones:

In disputing the theory of death by the Romans, Dr. Spigelman pointed out that (1) the bodies consisted of full skeletons, and (2) they had been interred in shrouds that had gold thread in the ties. So what? So, he stated (something to the effect that):

"The Christians believed in a resurrection. Thus, when the Romans killed them, they BURNED the Christians' bodies to PREVENT them from being resurrected. Even though we know there was a great persecution of the Christians by the Romans even into the 2nd century these bodies could NOT be the result of murder by the Romans. Most likely, they are the result of mass suicide of [influential] Christians who were trying to AVOID having their bodies burned after they were killed [by the Romans]."


I was like... "Well, DOOO-DAH, Lord! Once again, YOU prove yourself true! I only need to show a little patience and YOU prove what you tell me!" LOLOLOL!

I am sharing this because it helps ME see that not only did early Christians believe (understood/knew) that cremation (could) interfere with/prevent resurrection and so did NOT burn their dead, but, apparently, the ROMANS ALSO BELIEVED (thought) this... as evidenced by their REASON for burning Christians: PREVENTING resurrection.

It also helps me to put even more faith in my dear Lord because, as I have shared with you, he said to ME:

"... all things I tell you... ARE WRITTEN."

Somewhere, ALL that he tells his servants is written. THIS truth, too IS written. Has to be... in order for Dr. Spigelman to even know of it. Somewhere, HE read of this belief of the early Christians. Perhaps in the Jewish annals at the Hebrew University, or perhaps in the Vatican library. Or somewhere else, I don't know. But he didn't just pull it out of the air - else, he would give praise to One who gave it to him FROM the "air"... and/or his colleagues would question his credibility (which one of his stature cannot allow to occur!). For him to say it, then, as an "EXPERT," means there is SOMETHING written... somewhere... to corroborate his statement.

Praise JAH. PRAISE JAH! And KISS... the SON... of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... which Son is the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One OF JAH!

Sorry, dear ones, but I am a bit jazzed, right now. It was, for ME, a bit of "food"... at the "proper" time.

Peace to you, ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

P.S. The scientists later determined, by the large number of skeletons and the approximate time of their death, that these were people who had died from disease, most like from a plague that was recorded to have been in the area around 65 CE. Peace to you, all!

I was like... "Well, DOOO-DAH, Lord! Once again, YOU prove yourself true! I only need to show a little patience and YOU prove what you tell me!" LOLOLOL!


Yes, certainly worth a " DOOO-DAH"...

Thank you for sharng this info with us confirming the faith you have already put in our Lords own words.

Love and Peace to you my sister, your fellow slave of CHRIST, Kim

Something very interesting but NOT an accident...

I had just literally read this thread, closed up my iPad and walked into the living room. My family was watching a pilot to a new series called " How to get away with murder."

Four law students were standing over a dead body with bottles of gasoline or something like lighter fluid. One student asked, "are you sure you want to do this?"

They answered, "YES! Do it, it's the only way to DESTROY the DNA!"

Well, that was another DOOO-DAH to me as well!

Just wanted to share,
Peace Kim

Yes, dear 'Mom (peace, luv)!! I saw that episode and thought of this topic. I thought that if I posted it, though, some might think, "Well, SA, that's TELEVISION. There's a lot of artistic license on television so you can't believe everything they say THERE!"

But, yes, I was a bit encouraged when I saw that episode, too, luv!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

It does go to show how knowledge and truth can get lost and/or become obscured (or even be forcibly hidden/destroyed to make room for more 'modern' or accepted beliefs/practices) over time.



I know this is an older thread, but I just learned that some Jewish people are choosing to be cremated. Not many yet, and certainly not orthodox, but some from reform are choosing cremation. I know this because (speaking of tv shows, Justmom... peace to you) in the Big Bang Theory, Howard's mother died (they are Jewish) and he was returning from the funeral, bringing back her ashes after her cremation.

I saw that and I was... whoa, what?

Since when do Jewish people get cremated? And to put the act on television as if it is commonplace and no big deal - which I am understanding from the Spirit is done for the purpose of - even if unknowingly (for this is the work of the Adversary) - influencing others to consider this and follow suit. But even if some/many/all Jews do not understand (anymore) WHY cremation should not be done, or why the decree from God is to bury the dead, cremation is still prohibited in their law. So of course I went and looked that up, because how could the writers of that show get that so wrong? But apparently some Jewish people are opting to be cremated.


http://forward.com/articles/158218/more ... ion/?p=all



http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs ... .shtml?p=3

Reform Judaism in the nineteenth century went the whole way in rejecting the doctrine of the resurrection in favor of that of the immortality of the soul. In Reform prayer books, passages in the traditional prayer book to the resurrection have either been deleted or interpreted as referring to immortality of the soul.


http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/2 ... cremation/

"Physical resurrection isn't something that progressive Jews believe in, so that isn't a concern," he said. Progressive Jews also don't accept the Orthodox belief that cremation is the mutilation of a corpse, he said, since it is done respectfully, not maliciously. "We have therefore been happy to allow cremation for those who want it," he said, calling it "extremely common. It wouldn't be anything to raise an eyebrow about in the progressive movement."





So the understanding of a physical resurrection being replaced by the false teaching of 'immortality of the soul' leads some (even some Jews) to disregard the practices, example of Abraham, and command of God... of burial. Not that this is a new argument. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, and the Pharisees DID.





***
Shelby, I found this just now on the Romans and burial/cremation. You might find this interesting. I did.

http://www.history.co.uk/study-topics/h ... ilisations

Though most people were buried in early Rome, in later centuries cremation became popular, with urns buried under grand commemorative monuments. Despite the increasing popularity of cremation, Romans held onto the curious practice of os resectum in which a severed finger joint was buried where the rest of the body had been cremated. It has been suggested that this was to purify the family of the deceased while mourning was taking place, or could be seen as a symbolic burial after cremation.


***



Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

"Physical resurrection isn't something that progressive Jews believe in, so that isn't a concern," he said. Progressive Jews also don't accept the Orthodox belief that cremation is the mutilation of a corpse, he said, since it is done respectfully, not maliciously. "We have therefore been happy to allow cremation for those who want it," he said, calling it "extremely common. It wouldn't be anything to raise an eyebrow about in the progressive movement."


They might have referred to this as " New Light " this progressive movement with the light getting brighter. ( Sorry, in all seriousness this is sad)


Though most people were buried in early Rome, in later centuries cremation became popular, with urns buried under grand commemorative monuments. [b]Despite the increasing popularity of cremation, Romans held onto the curious practice of os resectum in which a severed finger joint was buried where the rest of the body had been cremated[/b]. It has been suggested that this was to purify the family of the deceased while mourning was taking place, or could be seen as a symbolic burial after cremation..

I would venture to say that the Romans new the importance of burying " a bone."


Thanks for sharing this Tammy,
Peace to you and your household, your sister in Christ, Kim

Oh, you BET that that's interesting (to me), dear Tams (peace, luv!)... and you KNOW I IMMEDIATELY heard that the "suggestion" for this practice is false. They held onto those fingers... so as to have "something" left of the person TO resurrect! Just in case there WAS a resurrection.

They cremated... for safety and sanitation: dead bodies not only attracted predatory animals, but vermin. Which carry disease. AND, often, the dead WAS diseased. And subject to be dug UP... or their "filth" seeping into the ground, then into the ground water, then into the water supply. The diseased HAD to be burned else their corpses risked spreading epidemics. This was not a concern for the Israelites, as Moses' laws kept THEM from most diseases that ran rampant among other peoples.

Today, cremation is not a matter of sanitation; it is a matter of expense reduction. At least, in the western world. Don't get me wrong: even cremation can be expensive, once you get into the cost of the urn/receptacle, monuments, columbarium fees (especially for location within the columbarium - dear hubby and I LOVE to visit cemeteries, mausoleums, and columbariums, although the "odor" in the last two are sometimes a bit much. It's not a "funky" odor, but a kind of "dusty" smell... wherein the "dust" is that from human bodies. I digress.)

It definitely wasn't... and isn't... about space, per se. True, some cemeteries are to capacity... and beyond... but that's within developed city/county limits. Literally speaking, there's a LOT of vacant real estate on this lovely planet. Were that not true, one could never bury a body and it never be found.

Anyway, yes, luv, I found that VERY interesting... and so I immediately started listening as to where the truth... and the lie... was in the statements! LOLOLOL!

THANK you for sharing that and peace to you and your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Dear 'Mom... girl, you cracked me up with your "bury a bone" comment. Also, LOVE you underlining and coloring! LOLOLOL!

Peace, m'luv!

Oh yes, for sure. I heard that too.





Oh my goodness, JM, I didn't even get that until Shelby highlighted it here, lol.

I was thinking, yes, bury the bone to have something for the resurrection...



Peace to you both,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Just a bit of trivia/FYI for you dear folks (peace to you, all!)...

Both ancient Egyptians AND Chinese believed in the resurrection of the BODY. And NOT to some other world, but to the same one they left. Well, the physical world and ON EARTH. That's why they buried all of their stuff... and sometime, even servants... WITH them: so that these items/people would BE there when they "woke up" from [the SLEEP of] death. The rich did NOT want to wake up as paupers. So, they had what they believed they would NEED when the "woke up" WITH them.

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel