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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Can our prayers really change anything?

Say, a loved one is deathly ill. We pray for their healing. Won't the outcome be the same whether we pray or not? They probably will not be healed miraculously. Is prayer just to make us feel better, since there is nothing else we can do, we are so impotent to help anyone.

Can anyone share the things you might pray for if your loved one is dying?
Healing, and, if not, then:
that they go before their pain gets too bad
that the Lord will speak to and teach them before they go
?
I suppose in the end, the prayer will be that God's will be done, somehow. I don't know - I'm lost.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Greetings to you dear Ataloa,

Yes, Prayer can make a difference.

I have come to understand that when I pray I want His (Jah)s will to be done as He ALWAYS knows the best for us all.
I realize often when I pray MY will and emotions may get in the way and what I may want today may not be the best outcome for me tomorrow. So although he knows our sincerity and wants and desires and cares to answer them for us, he knows the big picture and the best decision. So although I may ask, because he already knows whats in our hearts, I try often to say "You know better than me".

I have also come to realize the importance when I pray to call upon the name of Jahveh, the Most Holy One of Israel and our proper Door and mediator Jaheshua the Holy One of Israel Jahs son!

If someone I care about is very sick I will ask for either their healing and or their suffering to end. But I also realize I may be unaware of what the person on the receiving end may have asked for or done.

Although I admit I do not have the gift of healing, I know that His compassion and mercy is great and shows mercy to whom he chooses.

I know it is written that the prayers of the holy ones are as incense and a sweet smelling odor to Jah.

It is also written in Isaiah that the prayers of the wicked and rebellious he does not hear. So our motive and intent and heart are very important.

Our Lord gave us a model prayer as well and I try to remember this and pray accordingly. Not verbatim.

These are some things I try to remember and wanted to share with you. Others may add and share as well.

Hope this may have helped in some way for you,
Peace and Love to you always, your sister and fellow slave of Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:49 am 
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Not to take ANYTHING away from what dear 'Mom shared (and I share her feelings), dear At ( peace to you, dear lady!)... but I wanted to answer your question and when I went to do so was stopped by my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH ( MischaJah ). He said that while MY answer was correct from a HUMAN point of view, it's not what HE would tell you (or me) had we asked the question of HIM. He also would not have told us dear Hubby's thought which is that it's for communication. However, if JAH knows our hearts... and our SPIRITS can "groan" within us, we don't really need prayer to communicate with the Father. For that, we only need holy spirit... and Christ (i.e., spirit and [the] Truth).

He said the PURPOSE of prayer... is to teach us humility. To teach us:

1. There is someone greater than us ("The Father is GREATER THAN I am"...);

2. There is who can control what we cannot;

3. Who knows what we do not;

and so when we go to Him... in HUMILITY... with a HUMBLED heart... and that doesn't mean just speaking words and asking for what we "want", but recognizing WHO it truly IS that we're going BEFORE... the PERSON... Who is a REALITIES and NOT an abstract idea or paradigm with no REAL basis... is when He LISTENS.

To show that humility we must start by listening to HIM, particularly as to Whom HE says we are to listen to and obey so as to even get IN and come BEFORE Him so as to BE heard.

When I asked him about Cornelius... how that one was told HIS prayers were heard... yet he COULDN'T have gone in before him as he did not yet know Christ. His answer blew me away... because he told what Cornelius' prayer WAS: having heard ABOUT the Christ and his teachings and what had happened to him, Cornelius went to "the MOST HOLY One... JaHVeH"... who was the God of HIS forefathers and ASKED... to know... the TRUTH. And so Peter was sent to him... to TELL him about that One. Which Cornelius and those with him READILY RECEIVED... and so received hols spirit. And through that spirit... received... and... came to KNOW... Christ.

After sharing this, my Lord said:

"And is it not through knowing ME, child, that one can know the Father? And is it not knowing the FATHER... AND THE ONE WHO CAME FORTH FROM HIM everlasting life? Is that not how one knows GOOD... life... and LIVES... eternally? So that not even bad... DEATH... has a hold on him? People SAY they love me, SAY they love the Father. Their PRAYERS, however, can show that as untrue."

What he meant, dear one, is that when we pray (to the Father)... SUPPOSEDLY our HEARTS are opened before Him. At least, that's what we want Him... and others... to BELIEVE. But is that TRUE? Only we... and they... [can] know.

I say "can" because he said MOST of us, mankind, fool ourselves. We THINK we are being humble, sincere, open, etc., when the TRUTH is we are not. Some of us are like the Pharisee who prayed to himself. Some of us pray as we taught by man, openly and publicly. Some of us are thinking of other things as we pray. MOST of us pray for things that have absolutely nothing to do with the Father OR the Son... but serve our own interests.

Which is why our Lord taught us to pray as he did: NOT for our OWN desires and will... but for the FATHER'S. As HE prayed. If you think of it, Christ NEVER prayed for himself, his mother, siblings... and only for his disciples in RELATION to their union with the Father and himself. He prayed for their safety to the extent the FATHER was glorified... but not for the sake of HIS flesh OR theirs.

Why? Because he had FAITH in the Father... that WHATEVER he asked he would receive/would be done... NOT to save HIS flesh... NOT to prove anything about himself to anyone... NOT to save himself sorrow or pain... but TO GLORIFY THE FATHER.

Again, I will share with you: it is not about us. And so prayer is a way for us to humble ourselves UTTERLY... because we are NOT (SUPPOSED to be) looking at ourselves, NOT (SUPPOSED to be) asking as to ourselves, NOT (SUPPOSED to be) seeking our OWN righteousness... but (SUPPOSED to be) looking at CHRIST (because we have to see and go through HIM, yes, to see and get to the Father)... (SUPPOSED to be) asking as to the will and desire of JAH... and (SUPPOSED to be) seeking HIS kingdom and so HIS righteousness. Yes?

Which is why Muslims pray as they do: 5 times a day, prostrated. To have an [outward] APPEARANCE of humility. It may not be what they MEAN but that truly is what it is.

But the MOST HOLY ONE of Israel, JAH of Armies, isn't looking at all of that display (which is really for the benefit of others, much like WTBTS "field service" and it's accompanying time keeping - to make others THINK one is "spiritual"). He is looking at... and reading... hearts. The "man" we TRULY are... which others cannot see (unless it is granted them to do so).

And that is what my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH ( MischaJah ) shared with me in answer to your question... and I, SA, have shared it with you just as I heard and received it from him.

I hope that helps, dear lady, truly.

As always, peace to you and to dear hubby!


YSSFS of Christ,

Shel... who did this on her phone so please forgive any typos, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:18 am 
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AGuest wrote:
He said the PURPOSE of prayer... is to teach us humility.


Again, I will share with you: it is not about us. And so prayer is a way for us to humble ourselves UTTERLY... because we are NOT (SUPPOSED to be) looking at ourselves, NOT (SUPPOSED to be) asking as to ourselves, NOT (SUPPOSED to be) seeking our OWN righteousness... but (SUPPOSED to be) looking at CHRIST (because we have to see and go through HIM, yes, to see and get to the Father)... (SUPPOSED to be) asking as to the will and desire of JAH... and (SUPPOSED to be) seeking HIS kingdom and so HIS righteousness. Yes?



Which makes complete sense...Peace to you both today!


I find that I will converse with our Lord daily and ask and thank him for many things BUT....

When I pray to Jah I catch myself and stop and apologize because I find myself asking for things I realize that are not appropriate.
Things that are more MY will or what I want. And I realize that this is a lack of faith on my part because He already knows whats in my heart and what I would want and I should be MORE focused on His will as he knows ALL things ( the big picture)

And as far as "Our hearts groaning" before HIM, THIS IS SO TRUE!
Sometimes words are not even uttered LOL! Hearts are completely exposed, and those are the words!

Thank for for this reminder and sharing from our Lord. Such encouragement to help us.

Peace and Love to you ALL today, Kim g:)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:57 am 
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Thanks for the replies; I almost couldn't find the post, it has been so long. I still don't know if it is proper to pray for someone's healing, as that is a selfish thing, I suppose. And I don't know if God's will will be done whether we pray about a thing or not. But wait, maybe it will matter. Christ must want people to be healed - he healed them when on earth, but someone had to come to him first, I think. He didn't just heal all people on earth. I'm just thinking out loud here. Of course, I suppose there was a higher reason behind it at that time - I guess for people to believe he was sent from God?

And now that people do believe in Christ, is that why there are not many miraculous healings, if any? To get healed, would a person with that gift have to be sent? I do not want my little brother to die, but I feel like prayers are futile, since it doesn't have anything to do with the kingdom and God's will, and is my own will - and yes, it is more important right now than anything else. I know it shouldn't be, but it is.

Also, just besides God not listening to an unrighteous person's prayers, would those prayers actually be detrimental. In other words, if a group of righteous people pray for a thing, would those prayers be hindered by an unrighteous person praying for the same outcome?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:44 am 
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ALL are unrighteous, dear At ( mornin ' and peace to you, dear lady!). There is none besides JAH and Christ who are righteous. Some have righteousness ATTRIBUTED to them... by means of their UNION with Christ (HIS righteousness is accounted to THEM). In which case their prayers, if taken into/before the MOST Holy (One) are by permission of and through the HOLY (One)) are heard (with one additional kind also heard: prayers that are asking to know GOD's truth and do HIS will... "God" being the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies. This is because such prayers, if SINCERE... lead TO Christ).

Please note, though: the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, does not listen to the words of our mouths or "minds." He READ and listens to the "words" of/on our HEARTS.

There are few miracles today, dear sister, because there are few with faith... IN THE ONE by WHOM such miracles are possible. People have faith in "God"... but NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. They have faith in "Christ," but NOT the Christ who is the Son and Chosen One of JAH (Mischa... JAH).

They have faith in other humans... in science/technology... and in themselves. But those don't produce MIRACLES. THAT requires holy spirit.

As for praying for OTHERS... that is an entirely proper thing to pray for, for at least two reasons:

1. JAH does not WANT ANY to die. And it is His DESIRE... that ALL live. Unfortunately, for the good of the ENTIRE creation, there are a couple/few UNBREAKABLE RULES as to life and death. That the wage/cost price of SIN... is one rule. It can be thwarted (by mercy) but it is still an unbreakable rule. Which is why Christ gave HIS life: to MERCIFULLY cleanse those who put faith in him FROM (their) sin... so that they don't HAVE to die... or stay dead... or be destroyed. By means of HIS blood, such ones have THEIR sin removed.

2. Asking for something for someone ELSE... something GOOD... particularly as to their health/life... is borne of pity and pity of love. And there is NO LAW AGAINST LOVE. So, even if one did not know Christ, such LOVE can act as a "key" to entry.

A problem arises, though, dear one, if one does not know Christ... AND has not SHOWN mercy/answered prayers (requests) made to THEM... and/or has called down evil on others... in THEIR lifetime. Which can be true of the one praying/asking AND/OR the one being prayed/asked FOR. For these, most probably THEY'RE prayer/request WON'T be heard/granted but instead they will receive the same "judgment" with which THEY judged others. UNLESS... they HAVE repented and DO go through Christ. Because, truly, there is NO other way.

Otherwise, I would exhort one to KEEP praying and KEEP asking... but doing so IN FAITH... the ASSURED expectation that what is hoped FOR... WILL occur... because of having knowledge that it has BEFORE... based on the EVENTS DEMONSTRATION (i.e., our dear Lord's PREVIOUS acts of mercy)... even though such one didn't SEE those acts performed THEMSELVES ("though NOT beheld").

Because happy (because they RECEIVED) are those who believe... but do NOT see (i.e., their faith is NOT based on what they see... but on HIM... and thus on what he SAID/SAYS... DID... and WILL do... because he CAN).

I hope that helps, dear one, truly!

Peace to you and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


Last edited by AGuest on Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:56 am 
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I thought I responded to this thread, but perhaps after seeing the responses already given, and agreeing with those, I did not.

Quote:
Thanks for the replies; I almost couldn't find the post, it has been so long. I still don't know if it is proper to pray for someone's healing, as that is a selfish thing, I suppose. And I don't know if God's will will be done whether we pray about a thing or not. But wait, maybe it will matter. Christ must want people to be healed - he healed them when on earth, but someone had to come to him first, I think. He didn't just heal all people on earth. I'm just thinking out loud here. Of course, I suppose there was a higher reason behind it at that time - I guess for people to believe he was sent from God?


There was that higher reason as you said... but also He healed those who came to Him out of love and compassion for them. But yes, they did have to come to Him (or at least ask, or send someone to ask on their behalf), out of FAITH. Those who had no faith could not be healed. Asking demonstrated that faith.



Quote:
And now that people do believe in Christ, is that why there are not many miraculous healings, if any?


Do they?

Many people know the 'Jesus' of various religions, sure, who reflects those religions and their idea of God... but not Christ, Himself. Not as HE is, but rather as the people have made him to be in their image. (and not because they do not know His name, per se, but because they don't know Him... Jaheshua, the Living Spirit, Image, Word and Truth of God. For example, those who think and state that Jesus would have been at the 'front lines' killing the enemy with bayonet, etc. Sorry, I'm reading a book on religion in the first world war, and the words of 'teachers and preachers', etc, just a hundred years ago from 'christianity' echo what those same christians today denounce from members of extremist groups in Islam)


Gifts are given as are needed to build the Body of Christ UP... as Christ knows they should be given (and as long as there is faith to receive such gifts), yes.

But a lack of gifts of the Spirit would be related to a lack of faith in the Spirit, yes?

Quote:
To get healed, would a person with that gift have to be sent? I do not want my little brother to die, but I feel like prayers are futile, since it doesn't have anything to do with the kingdom and God's will, and is my own will - and yes, it is more important right now than anything else. I know it shouldn't be, but it is.



One thing you can do when praying, is to do as our Lord did:

"Father IF IT IS POSSIBLE.... (then ask for what you want). But if not, YOUR WILL be done."



Quote:
Also, just besides God not listening to an unrighteous person's prayers, would those prayers actually be detrimental. In other words, if a group of righteous people pray for a thing, would those prayers be hindered by an unrighteous person praying for the same outcome?


Wouldn't that mean denying the righteous men what they ask for, on account of the one unrighteous?

Do you recall the words God gave to Abraham? That He would spare the ENTIRE place (sodom and gomorrah), for the sake of the few righteous in it? If just five, I think it was, righteous were found in it, then God would spare the entire place on account of them.




Hope some of that helps, Ataloa.

Peace to you, and to your loved ones,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:00 pm 
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ALL are unrighteous, dear At ( mornin ' and peace to you, dear lady!). There is none besides JAH and Christ who are righteous. Some have righteousness ATTRIBUTED to them... by means of their UNION with Christ (HIS righteousness is accounted to THEM).


Yes, this!

As well as to the rest that you shared. Including that there is no law against love, such as when it comes to praying for others out of love for them.

Peace to you, Shelby!
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:02 pm 
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And, yes, absolutely, ALL that our dear tec has also shared here (which made MY spirit REJOICE)!

The greatest of love and peace to you, both, dear, dear sisters!

YSSFS of Christ

Shel


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:25 pm 
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I am really enjoying this thread. /:)

LQMARKED


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Oops... "based on the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION"...

Dratted phone spellcheck.

Peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:55 pm 
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We THINK we are being humble, sincere, open, etc., when the TRUTH is we are not. Some of us are like the Pharisee who prayed to himself. Some of us pray as we taught by man, openly and publicly......Shelby

That brings up a funny memory/memories..
As a kid I can remember going to restaurants with Groups of JWs..
Usually Chinese Restaurants,after my dad had given a Sunday Talk at another Kingdom Hall..

The food would arrive at the tables..
Then someone would give a loud Public Prayer with all the JWs bowing their heads..LOL!!..
The rest of the Restaurant Guests must have thought we were Nuts/Fanatical/Showy..
As I look back,I would have to agree..
I never thought about it then..
I was just a hungry kid who wanted to get the prayer over with..

"BLAH!..Blah!..blah!!..Lets Eat Already!!"..................LOL!!..

...............................Image...OUTLAW

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:35 pm 
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LOLOL at the dear Sher'f (peace to you, luv!). Yeah, many folks THINK they are being "sincere" but the underlying reality is that they want OTHERS to think they're sincere/"spiritual." They're not REALLY worried about what JAH/Christ think (if they worry about that, at all).

This thread is a great place for me to share what I received from my dear Lord this morning, however (peace to you, ALL!). I was asking him for "entry" so as to go before the Father and perhaps ask as to some dear ones here and their loved ones... when he said to me:

"You know, child, you can just ask ME."

Within the nanosecond that my heart "hesitated" ("Wait, uh, wha... but what about JAH..."?), he then said:

"I am not taking glory away from the Father. It is because of the Father and His spirit that He put in ME that I am able to heal the sick, feed the hungry, resurrect the dead, walk on water, turn water into wine, and more. All that I did while I was among mankind, have done since, and am doing now. Since that time, though, He has given ALL authority to me. And so NOW, you can come to ME... but give HIM the glory. Because WHATEVER I do, it is for and to HIS glory. So, while you may ask ME, it is He that is glorified... by the work that is performed AND by the praise you give Him... for ALLOWING me to do His work."

At this point, I saw (in a vision) "Joseph," standing before a great storage building made of stone. There were men "working" behind him, just outside and inside the "doorway"... and many, many people standing before him. He was giving out grain. People were coming from all over. Some were taking small bags, some one or two sacks, some wagonloads (I realized to dispense to people who could not come to Joseph themselves, due to infirmity or age - and none of these "cheated" - I understood they took the grain to exactly whom it was intended for). ALL, however, were praising Pharaoh! EVEN the workers! They ADORED "Joseph"... because he was kind and generous. But they REVERED "Pharaoh." Because they all knew whose grain it really WAS and that it was only by "Pharaoh's" permission and proclamation that "Joseph" could even give some to THEM. So, they were going to and thanking "Joseph" for HIS kindness and generosity, but they were praising Pharaoh for HIS mercy!

Then my dear Lord continued:

"Did you not hear of those who, after being healed, having had demons cast out, ate and more, went away rejoicing and praising the FATHER? Nothing has changed: I do the work OF my Father... FOR His glory. And so, just as THOSE came to me, you can, as well. As I said, 'Anything you ask (the Father) in my name, *I* will do it. I said that because although you ask the Father, it is I that He sends to do His will. And so, as Israel and Egypt asked of Joseph, YOU can ask of me. BUT... you must give the GLORY... when you receive what you ask FOR... to the FATHER."[/b]

I thought, as dear Hubby often says... "Well, DOO-DAH!" and immediately said, "YES, Lord! I understand."

And then I understood something else. First, most of the so-called "christian" world pay homage and give glory ONLY to Christ. JWs pay homage to give glory ONLY to "Jehovah" (the Father). In order to do the Father's will... and yet, obey Christ, my dear Lord... I must pay homage, and give glory to them BOTH. In this way, I am obeying Christ's words to glorify the Father, yet ALSO obeying the Father who said to "kiss" His Son.

I also learned that while I will definitely go THROUGH my dear Lord, JAHESHUA, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and thus, MischaJAH... when approaching the Father... I will only ask the FATHER for those things my dear Lord told me to ask for. For everything else... including the things that my dear Lord has been given authority to do/over... I will ask him, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... as the first disciples, Apostles, and Body did. Either of him directly or for HIM to ask the Father FOR me (i.e., plead in my behalf). But in all things, that THEIR will, not mine, is done.

I do not share this with you dear ones to tell you what YOU must do. As Paul wrote, "We are not masters over YOUR faith." I share it... in case you are interested. In case any of it resounds with YOU. But I share it just as it occurred, and what I heard and saw just as I received them from my dear, dear Lord the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

Peace to you, all!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:07 pm 
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YES...YES...YES!!!

My spirit resounds with this 100 percent!

I can remember the feeling of spirit that came over me when I first came to be known by my Lord and the importance he plays in our role NOW! Something I NEVER was taught in the WTBS. It was always Jehovah, never any credit to Jaheshua.

In my earlier days, I was praying to Him, Jaheshua and caught myself and felt weird actually at the time. I remember Him reassuring me that now that I understand the importance of HIS ROLE as mediator and Joseph, that he will approach the Father for me as he had been given the authority to do so.

It is a reminder for me and us that truly ALL power and authority is HIS! But that ALL glory goes to the Father Jah.

It definitely helps understanding this completely now!

Thank you for sharing your conversation with our Lord,
love your sister and fellow slave of Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:47 pm 
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The purpose of prayer isn't to change God's attitude to suit you--it's about making your attitude agree with God!


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