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 Post subject: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:10 am 
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SOooooo... dear hubby and I were talking about my comments as to being a "city" girl and the WTBTS "paradise" scenes in dear John Foster's thread (may you all have peace!). Just to be clear, by "city" I don't mean living in a high rise, with heavy traffic, smog, people everywhere, etc. I mean, I'm just not the tilling, sowing/planting, reaping (from the earth) type. Not that I can't be; did a LOT of that as a kid many summers when visiting all the grandparents "down south." That... and a lot more: peeling/cooking/canning, feeding chickens and hogs, hauling water from the spring close to a mile away when the well went dry... bathing in a tin tub and using chamber pots and the outhouse. Picked cotton, tobacco, melons, cucumbers, strawberries, peaches, plums, apples, grapes, corn, tomatoes, and your sundry variety of peas, beans, and squash. Oh, and dug peanuts!! ALL of my grandparents were "country folk" who grew their own produce... and two sets slaughtered their own meat/poultry... which we had to help with during our summers... so, I can DO that kind of "work" - I just don't particularly WANT to do that kind of work. I'm more of the "So, let's see what's good in the produce/meat section today" kind of girl. A bit of a "secretary" maven: gimme a pen, typewriter, computer, book, manual, text, papers, folders, charts, forms, graphs... and/or things to be organized... versus planted, picked, hoed, cut... knifed... and I'm good. Really. I digress.)

But that's not the reason the whole WTBTS "paradise" theme never intrigued me. It didn't... because it never rang "true"... at least, not for ME. Especially the whole tilling the soil, planting, etc., part. Somehow, "something" was always "wrong" about that... for ME. Of course, the WTBTS' teaching of two "hopes" stands to explain that for SOME... but does is it ACCURATE? Maybe not. I will let YOU decide.

When dear hubby commented on my comment (that, knowing me, it made him laugh out loud), I explained what I meant by "city" and that the prospect had never rung true as to the "new system." Something wan't "right" about it. And he reminded me of the 62nd and 75th chapters of Isaiah... verses 8 and 9 of the former and verses 21 through 25 of the latter. And in reading those, I can see where one might believe in... even want... this eventuality.

And there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. Except... and here's where I kept having problems... two things just didn't "add up" to the truth of CHRIST.

First, 65:20 -

“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed."


Say, what, now? But how can someone... who has received ETERNAL life... die at "a hundred" (years)? How can they die... at ANY years? Or how can they "FAIL to reach a hundred (years)?? People live to 100 years NOW. Hmmmm... No, something was not "right" as to this hope. Not that the promise was/is WRONG, but something is out of whack here.

Then there's Isaiah 62:8, 9 which state:

"JaHVeH has sworn by his right hand
and by his mighty arm:
“Never again will I give your grain
as food for your enemies,
and never again will foreigners drink the new wine
for which you have toiled;
but those who harvest it will eat it
and praise JaHVeH,
and those who gather the grapes will drink it
in the courts of my sanctuary.”


No, something is wrong here, as well. Something's not ringing quite "true", at least as to the hope set out by CHRIST. Because... isn't such "toiling" the result of Adham's SIN? Isn't his sin WHY he to go from just simply picking food/fruit... because PRIOR TO IT BEING CURSED... the land simply gave FORTH it's produce? And as part of consequence of his sin the land was CURSED... so that now HAD to "toil"? How is that cursed LIFTED... if folks STILL have to toil to bring forth produce from the land????

No, something just didn't "add up" for ME... when listening to the WTBTS tout how this would be the eventuality for Israel.

And so I was (re)pondering this when my dear Lord came to me and asked:

"Is that the promise I made to YOU, child, and to all those whom my Father gave to me... that you would live a mere 100 years? If death is the payment for [your] sin... but my blood has removed [your] sin... so that you have become CLEAN and so have NO condemnation... of what benefit is your death? What is it payment for, THEN? Was my promise to you that you would once again toil... or was it that if you wished to STOP toiling... all you would need to do is come to ME, take MY yoke and carry MY load, follow ME... and I would, in return, take YOUR load? How is that I would promise you freedom FROM toiling and FROM death, yet lead you to toil and die AGAIN?"

And of course, he was right. But, faithless ME... there it was, in black and white... written right in the scriptures (and Isaiah IS scripture, my dear Lord himself even quoting FROM it... AS scripture... so). So... I needed more information so as to UNDERSTAND. So that my LACK of faith would not prove a stumbling block, causing me to question what HE was saying to me, over what was "written" (in scripture)! Praise JAH... he did not withhold understanding... but "led" me... through HIS reasoning... into the TRUTH!!

Which is... that these things are what will occur during the "thousand years" of the "separating" of the sheep from the goats. During THAT time, people will still die! And, he helped me understand that we can KNOW that because... death is not done away with... YET. DEATH is not destroyed... until the "thousand years" have ENDED. And so, those who are being "separated" (which event begins once my dear Lord has returned, resurrected/changed those who belong to him as part of his BRIDE... and these being their rule WITH him)... who die BEFORE receiving a "white robe"... the spirit body that NEVER dies (but must be destroyed)... will have their part in the SECOND resurrection, where THEN... THEY are RESURRECTED to ETERNAL life.

During the "thousand years", the Adversary is abyssed. So, there is no one to (mis)lead mankind. Mankind will truly be on their own as to their choices/decisions. There will be no one to exploit the "desires" in them... so as to LEAD them to sin. Sin will be a pure choice, not a misstep. AND, there will still be sin in the flesh for these... because they have not yet come to LIFE (i.e., eternal life, by means of the "white robe" of the spirit body).

Some will ask, "Well, wait, why would some die, if they are SHEEP?" Such one must remember: the "separating" TAKES "a thousand years." So, it's not done in a blink, every sheep separated from every goat all at once. It is a PROCESS... that takes some time. Apparently, "a thousand years."

HOWEVER, those who belong to Christ, as his BRIDE... have ALREADY received eternal life... when Christ RETURNED (at the BEGINNING of the "thousand years") and resurrected/changed such ones to THEIR "white robes." THEY are not subject to lives of a mere "hundred" years... nor is THEIR "work" building houses or planting/farming. They will have already attained to the immortality that the "sheep" are being given during this period... or after (a part of the SECOND resurrection).

This was the ORIGINAL hope for Israel: to live long lives, in freedom and peace, particularly from their enemies... on their own land, which they would "work." But that was for Israel... BEFORE my dear Lord held out part of his kingdom rule... to OTHERS. To rule WITH him. Others from both Israel (144,000 from among the sons of Israel)... AND a great crowd of people from EVERY nation, tribe, and tongue. Before HIS offer, Israel's hope was solely in an earthly resurrection to Jerusalem and its lands, with each one being allowed to prosper in conjunction with his own piece of land, marry, have children, build their homes, and live in peace. And that promise WILL occur... during the "thousand years". Because the NEW Jerusalem WILL have come down... out of the spirit realm... AND the Adversary WILL have been restrained.

At the END of that "thousand years", however, that Adversary is loosed... and goes out to mislead Gog (the "goats" who were not allowed "entry" into the New Jerusalem) and Magog (the spirit beings that were cast out of the spirit realm with the Adversary). By THAT time... ALL of the "sheep" who still live have received "white robes"... spirit bodies. Prior to, they are "camped" just OUTSIDE of the "beloved city," the "NEW Jerusalem." But they are in VERY close "proximity" so that WHEN Gog and Magog attempt to "come against" that city, these don't have "far to go" to enter her gates. And so, in the nick of time, they, TOO... are taken inside... where they are protected. NOT just from Gog/Magog... but from the "fire" (dynamic energy) that comes upon Gog and Magog... from JAH Himself. If they remained OUTSIDE, they would receive the fate of these. But because they are given "white robes"... the SPIRIT body... they can enter and be "safe." Flesh... with ITS blood... however, cannot enter into the kingdom (of God), the NEW Jerusalem. So, these, too, will be changed.

And, again, those "sheep" who have died BEFORE receiving such "white robe" receive it when they take part in the SECOND resurrection.

Those who are ALREADY "city" dwellers... the Body and Bride of Christ... are not among those who "build houses" and "plant vineyards"... because THEY are (already) "like the angels." Neither marrying nor being given in marriage... toiling... or dying.

Does this mean there are TWO "hopes"? NO!! The "sheep" don't HAVE a hope, per se. At least, not one based on the promises of JAH and Christ. They are deemed "sheep" simply by means of how they treat Christ's brothers. They are not thinking "Well, I want to live on earth/I want to go to heaven." They may not be considering such things at ALL... but simply "doing by NATURE the things OF the Law (of love)." THEY don't KNOW when they've done good to one of Christ's brothers... and so their DOING good is not for an intended purpose, but simply because it is their NATURE.

The only HOPE held out... is for eternal life. Which life is granted BY and THROUGH Christ, alone. It is given to those who DO have the hope... of being a PART of him, he the head (of the Body)... and those who have no such hope, but receive it merely by means of his mercy, due to their "natural" show of love toward him, by showing it to his brothers. BOTH receive it as a GIFT, because neither, in their OWN right... DESERVE it. Because the price for sin... and ALL have sinned... is death.

OH! And I am reminded about that... "all HAVE sinned." Some will ask, "But, wait, AGuest... how can a newborn baby HAVE sinned? How can one that hasn't even been BORN yet HAVE sinned... such that THESE die?"

You may recall that I shared with you that WE are "living" in JAH's PAST. What is taking place for US now... has ALREADY taken place! That is HOW prophecy is possible: because the One sharing it with US is on the FINISHED end. They are not just matters told BEFORE they occur - it is only before they occur for US. They are matters that HAVE ALREADY OCCURRED... in THEIR timeline.

And so, they can say, with certainly, what "will" occur and when... as well as that ALL have sinned. Because they know what's IN a person... EVERY person... and there is sin in EVERY human. EVERY human WILL sin... at some point. And for those who died (before being born into this world) but WOULD have put faith in my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... there is a resurrection. Either as part of the first and so into his Body... or as part of the second.

Not one... NOT ONE... is lost. EVEN if such one never fully made it into THIS world.

As a "city" girl, I now understand: the building of houses and planting of vineyards will be the "work" of those who enter the "city" during and after the "thousand years" and second resurrection. Those of the "camp" just outside her gates. As part of the "beloved City," the NEW Jerusalem, however, and not the "camp" (which is made up of sheep, absolutely, but not "other sheep" - both those of Israel (the "little flock") AND the "great crowd" (of "other sheep") make up the Bride of Christ, the NEW Jerusalem... but those of the "camp" are the "sheep" separated from the "goats" BY Christ and his Bride)... building and planting, in a literal sense, will not be my "work." It is not the "work" of Christ and his bride and so, somehow, I never thought it would be my "work," either.

Which is GOOD news for me... as I never felt good about NOT having the desire (to build houses/work the land). Well, I wasn't made/allowed to feel good about not having it. Until now.

I, SA, have shared with you dear ones here these things just as I heard and received them from my dear Lord, Master, and King, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is the Son and Christ of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies. May any with ears to hear, hear and get the sense of these truths. May those without ears... but wishing them and thirsting for the life that comes from the One who grants them, BE granted them, so as to get the sense of these truths, as well as hear when that (Holy) Spirit and his Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take LIFE's (Christ's) 'water'"... the holy spirit of God, Who is the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... which "water" is HIS breath, blood, and seed... which GRANT life... ETERNAL life... because it is HIS life... and is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, that HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA... the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"

Peace to you ALL!

YOUR servant, as I am servant to the Household of God, Israel, and to all those who go with... ALL of whom are God's sheep... and a slave of Christ,

SA


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:22 pm 
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Wow, lot of info up there, and answers to things that I have wondered for some time too!

Funny, I was reading that very passage (among a few others in Isaiah) yesterday. But always when I read that one, I tend to zoom past the part that says someone who dies less than a hundred will seem to be cursed. Like... what? Why is death even written there if that is pertaining to the Kingdom of God, where there is NO death? Someone dying at ALL would then be considered 'cursed', right?

Anyway, I have also always felt something is 'wrong' with that passage, or that it just did not apply to the Kingdom after all. Working the land, etc, never bothered me because there are those who do love to do that. It didn't ring true though, when jws told me that everyone genuinely loves to do that (gardening, etc) and/or will be happy to do it, because... no, everyone does NOT love to do that. Same as everyone does not love classical music, etc, that would be part of this supposed 'utopia' with no more 'unacceptable' music (like rock or whatever).

**

As to the second part of what I have been wondering and asking: Are people outside the Kingdom dying and being born, as normal... or just living for the 'thousand years', themselves? It didn't make sense that they would be living a thousand years (unless a thousand years was somehow symbolic of no more than a hundred years), because of this that you wrote:

Quote:
During THAT time, people will still die! And, he helped me understand that we can KNOW that because... death is not done away with... YET. DEATH is not destroyed... until the "thousand years" have ENDED.


So if they weren't living for that entire time, then there would HAVE to be children being born, or there would be no one left outside the Kingdom after a century anyway, having all died of old age.



I would like to write more, but feel a bit distracted and don't want to rush or misunderstand something in haste. Plus, there is much to ask and listen about!


Peace to you Shelby, and thank you for sharing as you heard,
your sister and servant, and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:26 pm 
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Yes, I totally realize that there might be (much) for some to have to "chew on" here, dear tec (peace, dear one!). For me, though, I just couldn't reconcile folks dying at an "old" age, although young... if there was NO MORE DEATH. Or toiling in the land, if THAT was part of the CURSE for Adham (that he would have to toil the land... versus the land just giving UP its produce). And while I realize there are some who like to "garden/farm"... and, as you rightly state, some do NOT (and it's not that I don't LIKE it... I just don't PREFER it, as perhaps some do - it's not something that "calls" to me, at ALL... but I have nothing AGAINST it... this wasn't about that as much as it was... how is the curse (of the land) LIFTED... in Christ... so that there IS a "paradise"... if folks STILL have to TOIL in the land... AND die?

It seemed... to ME... that Christ was holding out something even BETTER than EITHER of these things, although the first just might BE enjoyable.

And so I asked... because I needed to KNOW... because I didn't WANT to question HIS promise. Had he told me, "Yes, child, you WILL toil in the land... and LOVE it!" I would have totally accepted that. Like someone who can't but wants to play piano. I would love to LIKE to garden - LOLOL! But that's not what he shared with me as to his Bride. Others, yes. Israel, for the most part... yes. Because they gave UP their initial position: firstfruits from among mankind to be IN that Bride Body. Doesn't mean they won't all be SAVED... they will! But they won't all be kings/priests... which Body has another "work"... INSIDE the kingdom of God.

I hope that helps!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Oh, I do get what you shared as to what the Body (kings and priests - made up of 144000 from among the tribes of Israel as well as made up of the Great Crowd, from every tribe, nation, tongue, etc) will be doing. As opposed to what the 'sheep' (those who are invited in for the good they did to even the least of Christ's brothers, and so did to Him) will be doing. I have no doubt that all will be placed exactly where they have proven that they should be placed.


Quote:
how is the curse (of the land) LIFTED... in Christ... so that there IS a "paradise"... if folks STILL have to TOIL in the land... AND die?


Yes, I hear you. I had not really looked at the word 'toil' at all.


Peace to you, and I am off to work...

Your sister, and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Thank you for sharing this. I have recently discovered Isa 65:20 and questioned it, but no answer was immediately forthcoming. Like you, I have NO DESIRE to garden or to build my own house. This makes much more sense. And, yes, I agree that death will occur during the thousand years, for the reason you explained.


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Thank you as well Shelby for sharing as our Lord said, " just so"!

This explains to me as well the verses in Isaiah that never added up.
Death and " the curse" to Adam exist until the thousand years have ended. Then it is done away with (death being thrown into the lake of fire) and the curse lifted as mentioned in Revelation 22:3.

So your a " city girl". By that...looking to the city that has real foundation... One built upon CHRIST as the chief cornerstone, and those that belong to him dwelling as part of this city, new Jeruselum.

Besides, the whole planting, plucking, tilling, and toiling...you've been there done that....LOL...


Waving hello to LQ and Tammy... g:) g:)

Love and peace to you and your household always,
Your sister and fellow slave of our a Lord Jaheshua MischaJah...Kim


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:44 pm 
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SO glad you dear ones "got" this (peace to you all, dear tec, LQ, and 'Mom!). Because it's a MAJOR "thing" for JWs... that whole agri-hope... AND is used to separate the BODY (the 144,000 from among the sons of Israel... FROM the "great crowd"). Because, according to THEIR teaching... the first go to (and stay in) heaven... while the latter are the ones tilling and plowing. How can THAT be... if BOTH are "kings and priests" to JAH... and rendering Him SACRED service... IN HIS TEMPLE... day and night?

Oh, wait... tha's right: John was wrong! The "great crowd" WEREN'T bought with our dear Lord's blood (hence, they're not in the New Covenant)... and are NOT kings and priests... contrary to what John WROTE... at Revelation 5:9, 10... and did not ACTUALLY wash THEIR robes in the Lamb's blood... as John WROTE... at Revelation 7:14... and don't actually RENDER "sacred" service (which ONLY a priest can do!) in JAH's temple... because they're not actually IN the temple... or actually BEFORE JAH and His throne... as John WROTE... at Revelation 7:9, 15... and so DON'T owe THEIR salvation to the Lamb... even though JOHN... WROTE that they did! Revelation 7:10

Heck, they're not REALLY even WEARING white robes (the spirit body, which they NEED... in ORDER to be before the throne and RENDER such sacred service... because flesh with ITS blood... can't ENTER into that kingdom). They're wearing suits... and ties... and ridiculous-look [long] skirts.

That John. Who the HECK did he think he was... writing all of these lies?! No, no, the WTBTS has it right. None of what John WROTE... is true. Shoot, they don't even owe their salvation TO the Lamb. No, they owe it to the "christs" that save THEM: the false christs... and false prophets... of the WTBTS.

Too bad... too... too... bad.

Ah, well, what can you do? Pray for 'em.

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:58 pm 
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And a BIG Amen to that post my dear sister!

Insanity and lies!!!

But then my Lord just reminded me ( again) at Romans 1:25,

"They have exchanged the Truth ( which is CHRIST) for the lie. And venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created".

That's one or part of the whole " agri-hope. Focusing on earth- worship.

Revelation is completely clear as to who the great crowd are and where they are. But because they separate and divide the body of CHRIST and focus on the earth worship, they are too blind to see this.

Thanks Shelby again, peace and love to you, your sister n Christ Kim


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:04 am 
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I have wondered about that for 30 years; still much to ponder over and absorb, but some of it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Quote:
Like you, I have NO DESIRE to garden or to build my own house.


See, besides spiritual things, I think of little else than doing these things - I only long for the health and strength to bring these things about. I don't like to 'toil' though. I want to enjoy it. I don't mind digging, tilling, sowing, planting - it's the maintenance I can't stand - the weeds that can't wait to come rushing in and ruin all my plans and hard work. I'm driven to keep starting seeds and cuttings, even if there is no place to put them.

I didn't used to be this way; I was always just a bookworm growing up; didn't even want to go outside and grew up not knowing how to do anything really. I liked the office-y things for work. But over time, those things no longer brought a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment and I had to do manual labor and create things.

I really have no desire to do the things y'all long to do with Christ - I don't know if that can change, or I'm starting to wonder what hope I even have at all. And if I have no hope, I really wish I did not have the desire to keep peering into spiritual things. This brings up so many questions for me.


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:41 pm 
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I don't thinking wanting to "farm"... or NOT wanting to... is the issue, dear At (peace to you, dear lady!). I can't imagine that NONE of the Body find tilling the soil not so desirable. But the work that our dear Lord has for us is helping him separate the sheep from the goats. Which we CAN do by judging (because that is what kings do)... but WILL do by pleading for mercy for (because that is what PRIESTS do). Now, maybe we're rotated in and out... so that while some are helping him others ARE "farming," I dunno. We will be able to go in AND out, so... seems to ME we COULD do both. BUT... I am not sure those who don't WANT to will HAVE to.

EVEN so... if they're going to be "like" the angels... the members of the Body of Christ... won't NEED to build houses or plant vineyards/garden. Because spirits beings don't EAT physical food... or live in physical houses. They ARE the "house" of God... and they EAT... from the Tree of Life that is Christ. MORTALS, however, need shelter and physical food. Do you SEE?? THAT "hope" was for PHYSICAL Israel... and still is... while they are part of the "CAMP." And since the members of the Body can go in and out... and put on AND off flesh... I have no doubt that they'll be like JAH and Christ in these accounts:

"JaHVeH appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

"So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick,” he said, “get three seahs of the finest flour and knead it and bake some bread.”

Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree."
Genesis 18:1-8

And...

"Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. As they talked and discussed these things with each other, [Jesus] himself came up and walked along with them; but they were kept from recognizing him. He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?” They stood still, their faces downcast. One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you the only one visiting Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?”

“What things?” he asked.

“About [Jesus] of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but they did not see Jesus.”

"He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

"As they approached the village to which they were going, [Jesus] continued on as if he were going farther. But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

"When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

"They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.” Then the two told what had happened on the way, and how [Jesus] was recognized by them when he broke the bread.

"While they were still talking about this, [Jesus] himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

"They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

"When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence."
Luke 24:13-43

Flesh with ITS blood... must eat to be sustained. If you recall, virtually every time our dear Lord resurrected someone he commanded them eat something. And so it will be when those of the Body go OUT (of the beloved city). Meaning, as spirit beings, manifest in THIS world. But it won't be necessary when they are IN the city... because it will be thus:

"On each side of the river stood the Tree of Life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the Tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him." Revelation 22:1-3

There are "gates" to the city, our dear Lord being the MAIN (hidden) gate, yes, but that's to keep folks who SHOULDN'T from coming IN... not prevent folks who CAN from going out:

"I am the gate (door); whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture." John 10:9

"He (Jacob/Israel) had a dream in which he saw a stairway resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. Genesis 28:12

So, like angels, those of the Body CAN put on... and off... flesh and bone (as we have, which shouldn't be surprising, if JAH made Adham in the first place)... and eat physical food (which it appears OTHERS will be "cultivating"). As JAH and Christ did (ate food OTHERS grew/caught, etc.) in THESE accounts. But only when they go OUT... and put ON flesh (and bone). INSIDE they are spirit beings and eat what spirit beings eat, as our dear Lord said, through David, as to Israel's lack of faith after leaving Egypt:

"They willfully put God to the test
by demanding the food they craved.
They spoke against God;
they said, “Can God really
spread a table in the wilderness?
True, he struck the rock,
and water gushed out,
streams flowed abundantly,
but can he also give us bread?
Can he supply meat for his people?”
When JaHVeH heard them, he was furious;
his fire broke out against Jacob,
and his wrath rose against Israel,
for they did not believe in God
or trust in his deliverance.
Yet he gave a command to the skies above
and opened the doors of the heavens;
he rained down manna for the people to eat,
he gave them the grain of heaven.
Human beings ate the bread of angels;
he sent them all the food they could eat."
Psalm 78:17-25

The difference is such ones don't NEED to put on flesh and so EAT from the produce of the land. In which case, they don't NEED to WORK the land. Not to say they CAN'T... or even WON'T... but that they don't HAVE to, that doing so is NOT the only "work" that will be done, nor is it the "work" that will be done by such ones.

Does this take us back to the two-class teachings of the WTBTS? No. Because those outside, in the camp, are not those who HAD their hope in Christ. They are those who did good to Christ's BROTHERS... but not INTENTIONALLY (due to having some kind of a hope IN Christ). They don't even know that they DO good to such brothers, so their love is a "NATURAL" affection... and done by NATURE... such that these are a law "unto themselves." They are not under the NEW (Law) Covenant... either by their choice OR Christ's... as such pertains to his Body. These, those of his Body... are CHOSEN to be a part of him and his rule... which rule is OVER these other "sheep" (which, again, are NOT the "other" sheep our dear Lord spoke about to his disciples. THOSE "other" sheep are people of the NATIONS who are chosen, along with some "from among the sons of Israel" to be a part of his Body).

There are more than one... or two... kinds of sheep: the little flock (Israel, the Jews AND Samaritans - Judea and Samaria)... the "other" sheep (from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people), who, together, make up the Bride and Body of Christ... and the sheep that do GOOD to these.

Dear, dear At... if your love is for Christ... then it won't matter "where" you end up... or what you'll be doing when you end up "there," yes? Because that love will want HIS will... and JAH's... to be done. And so, one will allow themselves to be "set" just where THEY choose. Truly, in the end, if our dear Lord came to ME and said, "Ummmm, no... no, no... YOU don't get to enter..."...what would I have to say? If MOSES, couldn't argue and say, "What, wait, you mean I brought all these rebellious yahoos this far... and up with all manner of hard-headedness, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckness, rebellion, lack of faith, murmuring, complaining, crying to go BACK, not following even YOUR instructions... and your decision is that *I* can't cross into the Promised Land??!!... who of US can make an issue if that is the choice for US?

I certainly couldn't... because it is THEIR choice, NOT mine. Right? And so, if, in the end, I AM "set" where my "work" is tilling the land, I PROMISE you I will be JUST as happy in doing THAT... as in any OTHER "work" that might be given me. So long as I am IN the kingdom... or will be (as part of the "camp")... I don't really care WHERE... or what I am "doing" wherever "there" is.

BUT... I just couldn't reconcile the promise to ME... with the death and toiling stated by Isaiah, or the "paradise" fomented by the WTBTS. They are teaching folks to NOT reach out for the "better" life! Indeed, they're shutting THAT life UP... BEFORE folks! Making NOT seeking the kingdom (and so JAH's righteousness)... MORE appealing than seeking it! Sort of a "Well, if we're gonna do okay OUTSIDE of the kingdom, why seek it at ALL??"

THAT is the insidious evil that they foment. Misleading people to NOT seek the kingdom (while thinking they ARE seeking the kingdom)... by teaching them NOT to desire entry into it... but to remain OUTSIDE of it... where one can spend eternity... what... gardening?! I mean, if that's truly what one WANTS...

But I am not so sure our dear Lord gave his LIFE... so that folks would only seek "a place" just OUTSIDE of his kingdom. I mean, if the gates are RIGHT THERE... and standing OPEN... why not go ALL the way IN? I mean, I'm just sayin'.

Nohmsayin'? LOLOLOL!

Peace, luv!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:32 pm 
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I've been enjoying reading this old thread today (peace to you all who contributed). I don't recall reading it at the time it was posted...however, I do recall pondering the 'dying at 100' in Isaiah when I was still in the WTBS.

I must've 'asked' our Lord because I 'learned' from the spirit at the time, that decisions about who would continue to live would take 1000 years, and that folk could indeed die along the way, whereas others would get 'closer' to eternal life. This thread makes so much more sense than the 'new system' visions that cult offered.


Quote:
... the Body and Bride of Christ... are not among those who "build houses" and "plant vineyards"... because THEY are (already) "like the angels." Neither marrying nor being given in marriage... toiling... or dying.


I'm not really much of an outdoorsy type either lol. I love flowers but am not into gardening much!

I've been asking as to the latter part of the above quote though...supposing a couple are married and alive when Christ returns...and if one is part of the kingdom but the other is a sheep who has done good to our Lord's brothers, say?

All I've heard so far is "Only death (or adultery) ends a marriage child". Perhaps we aren't able to bear to know more details at the moment. But we do know that "with Jah all things are possible" and know that we can trust in His love for us.

Your servant and fellow sister in Christ

Loz x

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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:51 pm 
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The WBT$ expects everyone to be as dumb as a rock.
It`s the only way you could believe anything they say or illustrate.

In Watchtowers Paradise.
Lions Will Have Beach Balls!

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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Lol Outlaw! I never did fancy lions and pandas in my kitchen!

Peace

Loz x

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 Post subject: Re: "A 'City' Girl"...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Quote:
Lol Outlaw! I never did fancy lions and pandas in my kitchen!.....Loz

LOL!!@Loz!!
I live in the Canadian Wilderness and we have bears here.
Have you ever heard that saying "Do bears sh*t in the woods?"
Well they do!
In front of my garage doors, in the front yard.
They will crap sitting in my cherry tree, 6ft in the air while eating cherries.
Trust me.
You don`t want them in the kitchen.....LOL!!

.............. 8) ...OUTLAW

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