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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:29 am 
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May you all have peace!

Most of us live in societies where pride is not only not considered dangerous, but desirable. We are told to have pride of self, pride of family, pride of country, pride of gender/sexuality, pride of station, pride of class, pride of… well, whatever else one might have pride in. Yet, we are told that in the eyes of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, pride is not such a good thing. Indeed, pride “goes before a fall.” This morning, our dear Lord came to me and told me WHY pride is such an undesirable thing before JAH… and a (very) dangerous thing for us. His words to me were:

“Because pride keeps one from feeling shame, child, when one SHOULD feel shame.”

What did he mean? He meant that, when a person should feel shame… particularly as to sinning… against JAH, or even against a brother… pride will keep such one from FEELING that shame. Instead, it will “allow”, if not prompt one to cover OVER their own transgression, ignore it, justify it away. Even blame others/the other for one’s error… rather than look at it, square on, and take responsibility FOR it… so as to even be in a position to ask forgiveness for it. Pride says “I don’t NEED to ask for forgiveness, because I didn’t DO anything (wrong).” Pride SAYS that… because it circumvents shame.

I’m sure you will all agree, though, that there are times when we should feel shame. Unfortunately, as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, one is not taught to feel shame. To the contrary, one is taught a whole LOT of pride… particularly and starting with being a member of the WTBTS. Indeed, pride is the very foundation of membership IN that organization (“We’re Jee-Ho-Vah’s Wiiiiitnesses!”)… which is one reason why her members “fall.” Fall in their walk, stumbling over Christ… and fall… before the eyes of JAH.
But didn’t Christ “despise” shame? Isn’t the WTBTS right in THAT particularly teaching? Because “the Bible says” he did, right? No! In spite of the erroneous interpretation that can lead one to BELIEVE he did, our SOUND reasoning skills… should lead us to LOGICALLY ask… how could he have done so… and yet, subject himself to the persecution, EXECUTION, and death that he did? It does not add up, dear ones. CANNOT. And remember, numbers don’t lie. At least, not when they’re the RIGHT numbers. And truth… is ALWAYS a right number.

So, how can we reason on this? We can start by remembering that he was accused, tried, found guilty and impaled… as a CRIMINAL… AGAINST JAH. And as a result, HUNG ON A STAKE! Which was THE worst fate for a Jew (“cursed is he hung on a stake”). Why? Because it was the Romans way of killing that came with NO mercy! The subject was not merely executed, but hung… ALIVE… on a pole, out in the open, where he flesh was subject to some of the cruelest torture! Not just the sundry animals that came by to take a bite/peck… but the PEOPLE who came by to SEE you… AS you died… AS a “criminal”! And yet… HE HAD COMMITTED NO SIN!

So, then we must ask, where did that come from, the teaching/thinking that he “despised” shame? From the usual place, of course: the false teachings of those who DON’T know… based on the false stylus/pen of the scribes (copyists). Let’s look at it.

The wording at Hebrews 12:2 states, in most Bible versions something to the effect that:

“… as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, [Jesus]. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

The Greek word for “despising”… kataphroneō… means:

“to contemn, despise, disdain, think little or nothing of (emphasis mine).

What the verse MEANT, is NOT that he despised shame, as in he would not let himself FEEL shame, because shame is a BAD thing… but that he thought little… or NOTHING… of TAKING ON SHAME. How do we know? Because Isaiah TOLD us:

“He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
Surely he took up our pain

and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.


“But he was pierced for OUR transgressions,
he was crushed for OUR iniquities;
the punishment that brought US peace was on HIM,
and by HIS wounds WE are healed.
We ALL, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of US has turned to our OWN way;
and JaHVeH has laid on HIM
the iniquity of US all.”

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of MY people… HE was punished.

HE was despised and rejected by US… yet it was OUR sins and transgressions… OUR shame… that he carried! And he did so WILLINGLY… thinking LITTLE of the shame brought on HIM… for OUR sakes. Because had he thought MUCH of that shame… HE WOULD HAVE OPENED HIS MOUTH. He would have STOPPED what was going on. He would have pleaded for his OWN life… saying, “Oh, wait, Father, uh-uh, no. I didn’t sin! Why do I have to die for these idjits, these people who KEEP trying and testing you, who KEEP sinning, KEEP thinking they are something when they are nothing?! Why should I die for THEM?! No, I won’t do it!”

But he didn’t. He thought LITTLE or NOTHING of that shame… OUR shame… and so keep his mouth shut… and took the HUMILIATION that came with BEING our Leader. He thought SO LITTLE… NOTHING… of CARRYING that shame… OUR shame… FOR… us. He ENDURED a SHAMEFUL death… the death that WE… sinners that WE are… and NOT him… deserve. OUR iniquities. Why??? Because he LOVED us… enough to take all of that shame… OUR shame… upon himself.

So, we should be able to see, from verses we've routinely read, that pride isn’t necessarily a good thing. Does the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, say that feeling shame is a GOOD thing, though? Perhaps. It may depend on how you view… and what you take from… the following:

“For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain;
From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud.
And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying,
‘There is peace! There is peace!’
When there is no peace.

Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done?
They feel no shame at all!

They do not even know how to feel humiliated!

So they will fall among the fallen.
When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,” says JaHVeH.”



Can WE avoid such a “fall”? We can. How? Maybe you can see how in the following account:

“He told this illustration to some who trusted in their own righteousness and who considered others as nothing:

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else—extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ But the tax collector, standing at a distance
, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to [i]me, a sinner.’ I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.Luke 18:9-14

Depending on our own "eyes" and what we (allow ourselves to) "see"... we should be able to discern how to AVOID the "PITfall" of pride.

I, SA, have shared as to this matter with you dear ones here, just as I have received it from and been directed to do so by my dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)… who is the Son and Word and KING of the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH, of Armies.

May those with ears to hear hear and get the sense of the truth and wisdom he has so kindly given us. And may those without ears but wishing them be given such, so as to grasp the sense of these truths, as well as to hear when he, the (Holy) Spirit and his Bride say to YOU:

“Come! Take LIFE’s (Christ’s) ‘water’… the holy spirit of God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which ‘water’ is HIS blood, breath, and seed… which imparts LIFE to those who receive it… and is poured out from the innermost parts OF that Son and Word and King, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)… to ANY who are wishing and thirsting… FREE!”

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with… and a slave of Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit,

SA


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:53 am 
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Amen to all the truth given you to share here.


peace to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:11 am 
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Quote:
But he didn’t. He thought LITTLE or NOTHING of that shame… OUR shame… and so keep his mouth shut… and took the HUMILIATION that came with BEING our Leader. He thought SO LITTLE… NOTHING… of CARRYING that shame… OUR shame… FOR… us. He ENDURED a SHAMEFUL death… the death that WE… sinners that WE are… and NOT him… deserve. OUR iniquities. Why??? Because he LOVED us… enough to take all of that shame… OUR shame… upon himself.


The Spirit brings to mind the two criminals crucified next to Him:

One of the criminals who hung here hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" (funny, that is exactly what Christ WAS doing)
But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God,' he said, 'since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But his man has done nothing wrong."


I never thought of the criminal's words as also referring to man, rather than just himself. But Christ carried that (our) shame upon himself, and endured that shameful death... for us.


Peace and love to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Thanks for this explanation, Shelby.

Quote:
For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame,

I had come to think the verse meant this: he endured a torture stake, (he endured) despising shame...

I was seeing despising as an adjective and not a verb. So, once again, I prove to myself that I didn't hear that; must've been my own reasoning. Sigh.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:42 pm 
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But didn’t Christ “despise” shame? Isn’t the WTBTS right in THAT particularly teaching? Because “the Bible says” he did, right? No! In spite of the erroneous interpretation that can lead one to BELIEVE he did, our SOUND reasoning skills… should lead us to LOGICALLY ask… how could he have done so… and yet, subject himself to the persecution, EXECUTION, and death that he did? It does not add up, dear ones. CANNOT. And remember, numbers don’t lie. At least, not when they’re the RIGHT numbers. And truth… is ALWAYS a right number.


Shelby, thank you for sharing as our Lord directed. And thank you for the clarification of the term " despising", I had never thought about it this way. But as mentioned above, of course he would have " thought little or nothing at all" of being shamed or out of his pure love and mercy for us he would not have gone through with what he did for mankind.

Peace and love to you and your household always, your sister and fellow servant of Christ, Kim


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:29 pm 
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YES, dear tec!! YES, YES, YES... as to (the meaning of and purpose for) that account you shared! One man, although deserving of death, let his pride cause HIM to mock the very One who came to save him... from ETERNAL death/destruction! The other... knew enough to be ashamed of what he had done so as to KNOW he WAS deserving of death. To KNOW he had sinned. And so, in his HOPE that his death was not ETERNAL... HE reached out to the ONLY One who could save him from that fate. He KNEW our dear Lord was dying for HIM... too! And so he put his FAITH in our dear Lord... by asking to be remembered when that One received his kingdom. We can KNOW he had faith... to the preserving alive of his ETERNAL life... because he would have ASKED if he didn't BELIEVE Christ HAD a kingdom... or COULD remember him.

He, then, although a sinner, was granted salvation... right then and there... due to his FAITH... IN the One who could save him! His ASSURED expectation of the thing he HOPED for: to not die FOREVER.

That other man... too bad... too bad. All he needed to do was humble himself before the man beside him... who he KNEW had done NOTHING to deserve what he was receiving, while he himself DID deserve it.

Pride. Perhaps not so much a good thing.

Peace to you... and to you, as well, dear At and dear 'Mom!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:51 pm 
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because he WOULDN'T have asked... sorry!

Peace to you, ALL!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:05 am 
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Thank you for sharing this Shelby. My spirit bears witness with it. It's so true that our pride so often can get in the way of our 'seeing' our own nakedness and thus being honest enough to feel the shame we should.

And as JWs we were actively encouraged to accept bad for good and take pride in their unloving and unjust ways of dealing, and be proud to be one of them. When we test those dealings against Christ, and His love, we can know and 'see' that they are wrong and should be ashamed.



Loz x

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:33 am 
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Reminds me of these two wonderful verses from Paul:
1Corinthians 1:31
so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

Galatians 6:14
But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Funny that you rarely hear a JW Boast in Christ and NEVER in the "cross".

I always remember that old ploy of theirs of trying to make Christians ashamed to take pride in the cross because it was the instrument of His death.
To which I always shut them up when I remind them not only of Galatians BUT that the cross was the instrument of OUR SALVATION, not His death.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Funny that you rarely hear a JW Boast in Christ and NEVER in the "cross".


How can they boast in One of whom they have no knowledge, dear P (mornin' and peace to you, dear brother!)? And they don't "get" the WHY of our dear Lord being impaled on a "cross" (stake with a cross bar): as a symbol of OUR shame, resulting from OUR sins. You forget: JWs don't think they sin, are sinners, have sin. Sure, they believe they are BORN in sin and so CARRY sin (sickness, aging, death) in their bodies... but TO sin? A JW? Oh, no, never may that happen! No, no, they are a "clean" people. A people "without" sin in that manner. Yet, dear, dear John... who should KNOW... wrote:

"If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of [Jesus], his Son, purifies us from all sin."

How can be purified from the blood of Christ... if one doesn't even PARTAKE... so as to ACKNOWLEDGE... the PURIFYING (from sin) properties OF that blood?

And...

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we [i]confess [/i]our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

And...

"We know that [b][u]we have come to know him if we keep his commands
. Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them
. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must live as [Jesus] did.

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness. Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. [u]They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them."

[b]1 John 1:6-10; 2:3-6; 9-11


As to confessing our sins... here is what I received from my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah):

There are only three (3) to whom we must confess our sins: the Father, him... and one another (if we have sinned either against another or another may come to know of it, be detrimentally affected by it).

So, where did confessing our sins to priests, ministers, elders, etc., come from? First, from the raising of these of themselves over the Body of Christ (as if!). As they seat THEMSELVES in the seat of Moses and make themselves "mediators" between man and JAH. We CONFESS our sins, though, because we want to be FORGIVEN for them. Who has such authority, though? Is not it JAH Himself, Christ His Son... and ANYONE to whom the SON gives such authority... and NOT man? And does not the Son give that authority by means of holy spirit?? So, just as that One said to ALL those who belong to him:

"Go releasing and you will BE released."

So ALL who are in union with Christ (such union being by means of holy spirit, the blood, breath, and seed of God which FORMS that union... which is given to those chosen from among those who eat his flesh and drink his blood in FAITH as to HIS authority and the cleaning and healing properties of his flesh and blood)... have authority to forgive sins. As such, ALL such have authority to hear confessions... not just some.

Matthew 6:14, 15: 9:6; 26:28
Mark 2:7, 10; 11:25
Luke 5:21, 24; 7:36-50; 17:3, 4
John 7: John 20:22, 23
Acts 2:1-4, 38; 10:43
Colossians 3:13
1 John 1:9


I hope this helps!

Peace to you, all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Sometimes I "hate" the formatting on this site. Well, sorta. I love this site, so my "hate" is minimal.

No time to fix errors, now, so please forgive!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:47 am 
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It means a lot to mean that Our Lord could have, if He wanted, had the marks from the cross healed and never seen on His resurrected body BUT He chose to keep them for all eternity.
That is truly something that touches me very deeply.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:55 am 
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PSacramento wrote:
It means a lot to mean that Our Lord could have, if He wanted, had the marks from the cross healed and never seen on His resurrected body BUT He chose to keep them for all eternity.
That is truly something that touches me very deeply.


I'm just wondering where this information comes from Paul?

Loz x

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