xjwsforChrist

They are ENTIRELY wrong, dear, dear LQ (mornin' and peace to you, luv!). To understand HOW (they are wrong), let's look at what Paul wrote, which THEY only look at... partially. The first part:

"For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially...

We can only HAVE partial knowledge, yes? I mean, WE are not complete in and of ourselves. And so we only know PART of "all truth." BUT, as Paul wrote:

"... when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. "

The first part of the confusion is the use of the words "what is complete" (sometimes stated, "that which is perfect"), here. It is the Greek word teleios, which means, used here, "the end/completion/perfecting," which reference to, say, when a man is completed... or finished... perfected. It's from the root word, "telos," meaning something that is brought to an end. Done. Accomplished.

It is followed by the Greek word erchomai, which means (and this is the clarifying piece) to "come" as in a person arriving, appearing, come from some place, appearing publicly, becoming known by appearing, etc.

And so by means of this we can understand that Paul MEANT... as to that which is "complete" or "perfect"... coming... he meant the return/arrival of our dear Lord. When HE, the One who IS complete/perfected comes. Arrives. Shows himself. At which time, WE, the Body of Christ, will be joined TO him... making US complete/perfected.

And so, Paul meant that, for NOW... UNTIL he returns/arrives to gather us TO himself... we can only know... and prophesy... PARTIALLY. Because WE are (yet) partial... and partially KNOWN. We are not (yet) COMPLETE/PERFECTED. That completion/perfecting will occur when we put OFF the corruptible vessel of flesh, the soiled "outer garment" that is our BODY of flesh... and put ON the "white robe," the clean "outer garment" that is the body of SPIRIT.

And so, Paul wrote:

"When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child."

We are in the "child" stage. Which is (1) why we NEED a shepherd/TRUE Pedagogue... Christ, and (2) why he CALLS us "child(ren." Because we are NOT "grown men" in him... yet. BUT... when we are joined to Christ LITERALLY... we will be "men"... the traits of children (i.e., the works of the flesh) done away with.

Paul used that human experience to explain the SPIRITUAL experience:

"For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face."

NOW, we can only see God, THROUGH Christ... and even so, not FULLY. CLEARLY. Because Christ is an IMAGE, not the real thing. He is the clearest reflection we HAVE; yet, we still cannot even gaze upon HIM fully... because, as I've shared, it's too frightening. Our flesh could not handle it.

But THEN... once we have put OFF the flesh and put ON the "white robe," we will be able to see JAH... face to face! Why? Because FLESH (with its blood)... CANNOT see JAH... and LIVE. But flesh with HIS blood, holy spirit... and flesh made OF spirit (not clay/earth)... CAN gaze upon face. Directly. And NOT through a "mirror." Not even through Christ. Because such ones will be like the angels. And remember, the angels "take their station" before the very face of JAH. Job 1:6; 2:2

So in explaining as to himself, Paul was explaining what we have the privilege of doing NOW... AND when our dear Lord returns, gathers us, and we TRULY become one with and so a part of HIM:

At present I know partially, but then I will know (accurately, fully, completely... as to Christ, and thus JAH), just as I am accurately known."

We will know JAH and Christ, as Isaiah wrote:

"... for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they know/understand..." Isaiah 52:15

as we are KNOWN by them:

Psalm 139:15, 16
Jeremiah 1:5
Luke 1:13
John 1:47, 48

So Paul was only saying that the gifts (of the spirit) only allow us to do thing PARTIALLY, dear LQ, but when our dear Lord arrives and gathers us to himself... we, LIKE HIM, will be complete... and able to know... and do... COMPLETELY... because WE will be complete, in HIM... and so able to know, speak, prophesy, etc., COMPLETELY... as he does.

Then, what is PARTIAL (in us) will be done away with, because it will be REPLACED... by what is COMPLETE (in us)... as to those gifts. Even so, if we have such gifts, even FULLY, they are of no value... if we do not have LOVE. The angels have such gifts, dear one; yet, look at what has occurred with those who do not have love.

But the PARTIAL gifts are still in work... in us who are granted such NOW... by and through Christ, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit. And so we who have received them are to USE them... for ONE purpose: to BUILD UP the Body of Christ. NOT to garner accolades for ourselves, or to be/feel "special." They are not FOR us... but for those we are SENT to or who are sent to US... to "prove" to them, if necessary because they still lack faith, but WANT faith... that God's spirit is on and in US... so that, IN TURN, THEY will put faith in Him... through the One who GRANTED us such gifts. That is it, that is all. To use them for ANY other reason... will meet with humiliation... and may even lead us to blaspheme.

One the greatest ways to use those gifts... to show love... is to tell others ABOUT the free gift (of holy spirit)... and the wonderful gifts that can come WITH. (1 Corinthians 12:2-12

Hence, we should ALL take part in the task undertaken by our dear Lord, the (Holy) Spirit and so, as part of his Bride, say WITH him... to ANY who are thirst, and wishing:

"COME! COME!!! TAKE 'Life's' "water"... the holy spirit of God, which spirit grants SO much to those who receive it... even LIFE, as it is a FOUNTAIN of life... of (holy) water that is the blood, breath, and seed of GOD, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... HIS life... and is given to ANY who are wishing and thirsting... from His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One OF JAH (MischaJah)... who IS the Life... FREE!"


There is no cost. No fee. The only "price"... is love.

I hope that helps, dear one!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Sadly, it appears that many would... and do... dear, dear tec (peace to you, luv!). Even Israel. As the prophet quoted our Father as to the false pen/stylus of the scribes/secretaries:

"And my people are LOVING it!"

Knowing what... and Who... I know NOW... kinda blows me away. I mean, I get it for those who have no idea there is anything... anyone... ELSE. But for those have been told, yet still want to get their "truth" from a book... versus directly "from the horse's mouth,"... I dunno.

Except to the extent that they don't WANT to get it straight... because THEN there would be some accountability attached. And who (truly) wants to BE accountable, in THIS world? Yet, they want... and will want to yet... take issue and blame others, including JAH Himself, for NOT knowing.

Too bad... too bad...

We're not necessarily THE brightest of creatures, sometimes.

Peace to you, m'luv!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Thanks, Tammy and Shelby. When I logged back in and opened this post, and before I started reading, I suddenly understood "complete" to mean when Christ comes and his brothers and sisters are made perfect (and by perfect, I mean complete). After reading Tammy's post, I could see that my understanding is correct. I can only attribute that to one thing. I "heard". I don't get this quite yet, but it must be that.

Ok, I'm going to read your posts now, Shelby.

Yes, you heard the truth of the question you asked, from Christ, Himself : )


Peace to you, Leaving!
Your sister and servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

It IS that, dear one (peace to you!). And you will come to know this truth... and hear MORE... when you allow yourself to GIVE that glory to the One who spoke it TO you... rather than attributing it to yourself (or "a little bird," etc.). That really is how it works: you glorify HIM... he gives you MORE.

I am SO happy for you, dear LQ... that you are at least considering the possibility! LOLOL!

Peace to you, dear brother!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I was out most of the day so didn't get to read this thread yet ....... I will comment later. Thanks for all the comments.
I was referring to what was the point nowadays, not back in the bible times.

Good Morning all
I reread this thread this morning now that I am feeling better and able to concentrate.

SO it seems according to Shelby's amazing experience that "speaking in tongues" for real does happen even now to some.

My question is, why wouldn't Christ speak in English if you all were English? I am assuming its so you know its not the person speaking but a spirit inhabiting her body.

As far as the Pentecostals and their babble speak, is that them pretending or a wicked spirit?

You've hid the nail on the head, dear Zoe (peace to you, luv!)! That is EXACTLY why (is it possible you "heard" that answer just before you accepted it?). Remember, tongues is a gift of holy spirit, all of which gifts are for the benefit of UNBELIEVERS (believers have faith). And so, if she had just started "saying" what he said... how would the others know it was FROM him? I (and perhaps you) would have known by the words themselves. Their TRUTH. But others maybe not. And so it was HIS tongue... being shared through HER.



Both. Some "allow place" for such bad spirits. Others don't want to appear unfaithful... or not belonging to Christ... and so they "fake" it. As happens with "false christs." The WTBTS "anointed" is one such group. How do YOU know they have received holy spirit? They not only claim no gift(s) to PROVE it... which is what the gifts are granted FOR... but DENY such gifts actually exist!!! How can one be "anointed" with holy spirit... and DENY that spirit grants the GIFTS of that spirit?????????

Thankfully, we don't have to worry about that. The wheat and weeds grow together. And they LOOK very similar. But at some point all things will be proven. The sons of God will be revealed to the entire creation... and ALL will know.

I just wish that, in the meantime, folks would stop assuming they/others are... on the basis of what RELIGION tells them it means to be... and go to the One they CLAIM has "chosen" them... and ask HIM. Because NOT doing that puts a whole lot of people who aren't paying very good attention into the realm of being among those to whom my dear Lord will say:

"Get AWAY from me! I... never knew YOU."

Just saying one is something doesn't necessarily MAKE one something. Especially when it comes to JAH and Christ. With them, it comes down to what is TRULY true... versus what some might SAY is true.

And one BIG truth is that we don't choose Christ. He chooses us. AFTER we are drawn to him... by the FATHER. To whom such chosen ones FIRST belong and who gave them TO the Son. They are drawn... by means of having softened their hearts so that the NEW Covenant can be WRITTEN thereon. That "writing" corresponds to the voice of Christ - they recognize the truth in HIS voice... because it ALWAYS comports with that new law... which is now in their HEARTS.

Which is why they don't need ANYONE to be teaching THEM; the law that is written on their hearts, by means of the choosing (anointing) with God's holy spirit... is used by Christ, the Holy Spirit... to teach them... and lead them... into ALL truth.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Good morning and Peace too you ALL this beautiful day....

This particular paragraph is very interesting considering WHO the WTBS claim to be...

Some "allow place" for such bad spirits. Others don't want to appear unfaithful... or not belonging to Christ... and so they "fake" it. As happens with "false christs." The WTBTS "anointed" is one such group. How do YOU know they have received holy spirit? They not only claim no gift(s) to PROVE it... which is what the gifts are granted FOR... but DENY such gifts actually exist!!! How can one be "anointed" with holy spirit... and DENY that spirit grants the GIFTS of that spirit?????????


They deny such gifts because THEY themselves do not POSSESS them! As to prophesying...how many prophecies have they self-proclaimed and have NOT been fulfilled according to TRUTH? And according to the time table they claim???

But what is interesting I find is that these verses SAY that what is " partial" will be done away with when THAT WHICH IS COMPLETE...ARRIVES!!!!

And instead of the understanding that this is TRUE, that when our Lord arrives ( a future date) it will go from partial to complete, they have our Lord as already ARRIVED ( in 1914) and so their gifts have ceased as partial all together without the complete. Not sure if I'm making much sense but I seem to think this is what they taught isn't it?
So, the crazy part as mentioned, since he has so-called returned TO THEM, they have NO gifts of the sprit. And therefore, their self proclaimed anointing without any GIFTS is false.

But this is what they do! And have no problem still calling them-self the TRUTH. All just proving they are one of false Christs and messiahs and prophets out there to mislead chosen ones.

May all those who are wishing be granted ears and eyes to see just how and for purpose this WTBS exists. To MISLEAD us from hearing the call " to get out of her". And may all who are thirsty for the water which is Holy Spirit and life from our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah take it FREE!!!!

Love and peace to you this day, your sister and fellow slave of CHRIST who is the TRUTH...Justmom

I want to send something like this to my daughter to emphasize that we don't need religion to be accepted and worship Christ. Is there a simple version of this?

Hello ZOE and peace to you,

Some simple verses to start with may be,

1. John 6:44 / Jah draws one.

2. Jeremiah 31:31-34 / law written on hearts.

3. Acts 17:24/ Jah doesn't dwell in anything handmade but IN People by means of Holy Spirit.

4. 1 John 2:26-29 / Holy Spirit will teach you. And remaining IN HIM is all you need.
And a way to start is mentioned in John 6:48-59 particularly verse 56.

5. Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35, John 10: 3,16,27 Listening to CHRIST's voice.

Just a few,
Love your sister and fellow servant of Christ, Kim

Yes, the verses dear 'Mom shared might help, dear Zoe (peace to you, both!). If you need an even simpler version (of the above), though, let us know. Or, even better... consider asking Christ himself. Seriously. Just go to him and ask him to put HIS words in your mouth when you speak to your dear daughter about these things. Ask him to help YOU help HER to start to reason on the things she's been told by the WTBTS and whether such are REALLY true.

Keep in mind: if your goal is merely that you don't want her to become ensconced in another religion, I cannot say how you will be led. If, however, you want her to know the TRUTH... about GOD and CHRIST... and so, about religion... then you have absolutely NO reason to think such won't be revealed to her. It might have to start with you, first, though.

We can know "about" JAH and Christ... and much of what's written in the Bible can help with that. However, if we want to KNOW JAH... ... the only way to do THAT is to know Christ. If we want to know Christ... no amount of Bible/scripture reading is going to help with that. Only holy spirit can make that happen. And only Christ can grant such spirit.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar