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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:14 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

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A time comes to stop reading the menu, and eat the food.


YES, YES, YES, dear JT (peace to you!). That's why Christ himself is recorded to have said, IN a book:

"You search the scriptures because you THINK that by means of them you will have life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. Yet, YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME TO ME that you may have life." John 5:39, 40

Such simple words. And yet... we keep looking to and trying to understand other words. WHY?? Why not take that simple statement... and go with IT? Because... it requires faith. It requires one to walk BY faith. And faith is not the possession of all men. And so most walk... by SIGHT. Including what they see "written".

It does not have to be that way, though! It really CAN be to simply "go" to, look to, and listen to... Christ.

I am a living, breathing, walking example of that, truly. I did not know the things I shared over the years before HE told me of them. I do not know the things I share now... until he tells me of them. I don't/didn't read of them - I HEAR/HEARD of them. From him... the One who speaks... because he IS alive.

May ALL those wishing and thirsting, then, hear... when Christ, the Spirit, and His Bride (those who HEAR) say:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, His blood, breath, semen, and life force, which is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... which not only imparts life to those who receive it but grants the ability to HEAR that which is of the Spirit... which "excavates/opens" the ears AND the eyes... so that the "deaf" can HEAR and the "blind" can SEE... that which is NOT heard/seen by the FLESH... FREE!" (Psalm 40:6; Revelation 3:17, 18)

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with, YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:15 pm 
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TEC SAID

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JamesThomas wrote:
I'll probably catch hell for that post.


Oh not from me. I agree with you 110%

Peace and thank you for that post!

tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:15 pm 
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JUSTMOM SAID


Dearest James...

And I third that! f&&8&&

Agree 115% lol....

justmom


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:16 pm 
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CRIMINY SAID


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AGuest wrote:
if one were to take the account as written to be an execution, then one would actually have to conclude that it was Peter who "executed" Ananias/Sapphira.



Now THAT, coupled with the statement at John 20:21-23 makes sense. No twisting and bending of what obviously jumps off the page. An explanation that fits snugly into all the little crevasses.

Thanks again for everyones feedback; Grammavelta, justmom... I got a lot more out of this than just "Peter is a hot-head"
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:16 pm 
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YPPUPLLEH SAID

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JamesThomas wrote:
I'll probably catch hell for that post.


You summoned me?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:17 pm 
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PSACRAMENTO SAID


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Criminy wrote:
Well, I've been taking this all in here and over yonder at JWN. Thanks for the feeback, as always Aguest, PaulSacramento, Tec, Watersprout. I have learned that there are more examples of immediate judgements of death in the new testament scriptures. Interesting.

Acts 5:9, NIV - Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

The apostle Peter foretold that Sapphira would die right then and there. And she did. To state that she and her husband died of shock or by some other means than divine judgement, in the same room, on the same day, in front of the same men, immediately after being called out for the same sin, is an extreme leap of imagination, IMO.

If it looks like an execution and walks like an execution and 'quacks' like an execution, I see no need to jump through hoops to make it seem like something else.

Regardless of the correct answer, I was kicking myself yesterday for the disrespect with which I posed the question. I have been so agitated lately about every little thing. With the carpet having been pulled out from under me in so many ways since leaving the org., I require one thing to not trip me up. Regardless of how arrogant it may sound, I require God to make sense. When, after much effort to cling to Him, I find things that just don't add up, my brain has a charlie horse and I tend to throw a tantrum. I have enjoyed the process of relearning things, no doubt. But I thought the dissonance of the past was supposed to stay in the past.

Regardless, disrespect is lacking in respect.

Thanks for all the feedback.


That Luke, the writer of Acts, doesn't say HOW or WHO cause their death is important to note.
It maybe that Peter did,it maybe that Peter cursed them and in doing so brought death upon them and it most certainly seems to imply that.
But co-relation doesn't = causation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:17 pm 
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TEC SAID

Hey, I found this, and there are other articles on sudden death syndrome (with various causes, most of them the heart giving out)

Just thought it might be an interesting read.

http://bodyodd.nbcnews.com/_news/2009/1 ... death?lite

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:18 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

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these large doses of adrenaline can also do damage to our organs, particularly
the heart.


From your article, dear tec (thank you and the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear!). I sometimes have such "rushes", and I tell you, my heart feels as if it will fly out of my chest! Stress tends to bring this on for me, as well as things like amusement park rides, and airplane landing/takeoffs. I think this is what a "panic" or "anxiety" attack is all about.

To you other dear ones (peace to you, all!), it very well could be that the knowledge of the seriousness of what Ananias and Sapphira did caused them [both] to have, say, a heart attack (or stroke). Perhaps one or both had a pre-existing "condition" (from all that lamb and beef - and "lukewarm" water!) that left them with an already weakened heart and so it didn't even take much. Even so, Peter's words, if not what was in HIS heart, was the impetus, if not the actual cause. In which case, he would still be responsible.

Should he have been so... ummmmm... indignant? I'm not sure; our Lord didn't seem to be when HE spoke to others regarding their blasphemy - he simply told them what the consequences would be. Then HE forgave them ("Forgive them, Father...") anyway. Because, well, who knows - JAH shows mercy to whomever He wishes. Peter often showed himself to be an "all or nothing" kind of guy, though. Very little gray areas with him ("Oh, no, Lord, I would NEVER...!")... and very little room for letting others "sin against" someone or something HE regarded (Christ, holy spirit, etc.). Yet, Peter himself was often chastised by our Lord... and even called out years later for his own hypocrisy.

For me, it reiterates the lesson of "be wrathful but do not sin." Meaning, I can be angry about something/someone, but not to the point where I sin... by judging and/or calling down "evil" on them... while I am yet a sinner myself. As we all are (because even though we are forgiven our former sins... we WILL sin again. And again. And again. Because we are in vessels that are slaves TO sin - 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1-6).

Because Peter was often rash and hasty in his "dealing" with those who offended him, he often found himself in very embarrassing situations. One, where Christ rebuked him face-to-face, another were he was brought to bitter tears... for having denied our Lord... when he had argued with our Lord that he would NEVER do such a thing... when he questioned our Lord re Lazarus, etc. John 21:20-22.

The lesson for me, from this account, then, is to NOT get all self-righteous and indignant when someone DOES blaspheme but to temper my anger so as NOT to call down evil on them and, instead, pray for them... as well as try to lovingly warn them before they even made that error. As I would want them to do for me.

More than the others, Peter seemed to take the most time to learn "how to reject the bad and CHOOSE the good"; however, our Lord chose... and sealed him... and used him for HIS purpose, as one of his chosen "vessels." What truly happened here may be unknown, but will be revealed, as dear Gramma (peace to you, dear one!) stated. In the meantime, though, we can certainly know that it was NOT at the hand of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, that these two died: we only need look to Christ to KNOW this.

Again, peace to you all!
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Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA


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