xjwsforChrist

Hey Leaving Quietly, your wife says he'll live once again in the new system?

WHen I was growing up in da troof it was always said if you committed suicide you would not be resurrected, guess there's been some new light on that topic, like everyone else. When did Jehovah change his mind about suicide?

Yes the suicide thing was kind of a gray area for JW's but I was thinking it was only if you were a JW and knew about Jehovah. I didn't think it applied to the people who weren't JW's.

Asphyxiation is choking, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace to you!). When asphyxiation is associated with suicide, it's usually related to hanging. I know, I know... was hard for me, too.

Peace... and for NOW... when we die, when ALL things die... its life force, the ENERGY that it is... goes to the spirit realm. Either to JAH (for those who belong to Him; their spirits "rest"... "under the altar"; for those who do not, what little bit of spirit... life... they have, which is not enough to even know where they are or what they are "waiting" for (resurrection)... the world of the dead (Sheol/Hades)).

Such life forces... essences... energy... merely "sleeps" (powers down). But THEY don't die (only the body of flesh dies) - energy does not die - it must be destroyed. And only great heat... can destroy it such that it no longer EXISTS.

I hope both things help.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

So its a polite way to say he hung himself. Yikes, that has to hurt.

Suicide is considered taboo by many "christian" religions, including the WTBTS (at least, once it was) and the RCC... due to its association with Judas Iscariot (peace to you all!). What such judgmental folks overlook is mercy... which triumphs over judgment. Most who commit suicide are ill... mentally, emotionally, even physically (and having watched a mother die from terminal cancer, I will absolutely consider it if I'm ever diagnosed as terminal and the pain meds just don't work and they're keeping me alive solely for THEIR consciences and purposes, and not MY wish or will!!). As the man Job, who God Himself called His servant, WANTING to die... due to (perceived) inability to withstand one's trials... is NOT a sin. I digress.

Christ had GREAT compassion for the ill... both in flesh AND in spirit. Healthy people don't kill themselves. Even those who do it because they've committed some wrong or have experienced a life event they just cannot handle (financial ruin) may BE sick, emotionally. Since we don't KNOW... it would never be within OUR purview to JUDGE.

There are two resurrections. As to the second one, as dear Zoe (again, peace to you!) shared, there will be resurrection of the righteous... AND the unrighteous. Including, therefore, even Judas (Iscariot). While those who take part in the FIRST resurrection are ALL resurrected to LIFE (because they have NO condemnation), those who take part in the second are resurrected to life... OR to judgment.

The One who CONDUCTS that judgment, however, is not us... OR even Christ. The Judgment is conducted SOLELY by the Father, who sits down AFTER Christ has returned the kingdom TO him. At that time, ALL who are still dead are resurrected... even from the sea and from Hades. They are judged based on what is written about them in ONE of the scrolls given to the Father. IF their names are written in ANOTHER scroll given to the Father (the Lamb's Book [of Life]), their sins... as written in the FIRST scroll (the Book of Remembrance) along with their GOOD deeds... are blotted OUT. Covered OVER. BY the blood of the Lamb, which is why their names are written in HIS book.

If their names are written in the Lamb's Book... they receive life: the "white robe" that is the SPIRIT body, the CLEAN "outer garment"... and they are granted entry into to beloved city, the NEW Jerusalem. Where the Body of Christ and those who did good to THEM already are... all, already eating from the Tree of Life... which Tree is Christ, who resides in the CENTER of that "city", which city is made of PEOPLE.

If their names are NOT written in the Lamb's Book... then their sins... even if it's only one... remain. They have no covering (by Christ's blood). As a result, such one is JUDGED according their sin(s). And since the WAGE of sin is DEATH... they must "pay" that wage. With their ETERNAL life. And so they are condemned... the sentence for which is destruction. In the Lake of Fire.

What those who shudder at this MISS... is that we have NO way to know that these latter group is a GREAT NUMBER. COULD be only ONE ends up with this fate. Because JAH does not want ANY to die. And many of pray... daily... for HIS will to be done... yes? And if we ALL pray for that, for HIS will to be done... then few SHOULD be destroyed? Yes?

There is so much more to mercy than most of us realize... or understand. And so many more to benefit from it. There is a reason we are to PRAY for our enemies. Sure, we can "heap fiery coals on their heads" by doing so. Or... we can be... and so DO... LIKE Christ... and SINCERELY want them to GET it... to TURN to him... and PRAISE JAH... to the preserving alive of THEIR eternal lives, as well! Them... AND their households.

Or... we can show ourselves children of the Adversary... and Adham... concerned only for our OWN flesh... to the DETRIMENT of everyone else.

Being unable to forgive, to extend mercy... is a VERY serious thing. As Christ said to his disciples:

"WHATEVER you bind... on EARTH... is bound... IN HEAVEN. And whatever you LOOSE... on EARTH... is LOOSED... IN HEAVEN."

A very serious charge... and power. May all those who possess it... wield it wisely. And the ONLY way to do that, is to do it as Christ would. And HE gave his LIFE... for ALL. Us. The world. EVEN his enemies. OUR "works", then, should PROVE that we are sons of God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and TRUE member of the Body of His dear Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Including loving our enemies... and PRAYING for them. Not hating... judging... and condemning... them.

Because the latter... might PROVE... that we are not (sons of God).

Peace to you all!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

In 1954, the view was that a person who committed suicide would not be resurrected
In 1975, the view changed to leave the matter in Jehovah's hands
In 2002, the view re-stated the 1975 view

So, yes, Jehovah changed his mind in 1975.

The 1975 article was, for lack of a better word, an atrocity, in my opinion. Here's an excerpt:


In those days, the Society did NOT recognize mental illness. Nowadays, it's more acknowledged. The 2002 article was a bit kinder.

Apparently, the "light" got "brighter" in them (peace to you, dear LQ!). Sadly, not bright enough. As my dear Lord just said to me:

"A little leaven ferments the entire lump, child... and the pale light of one tiny lamp, set in a corner, isn't enough to conquer the darkness found in the entire house."

Sooooo... ho-kay, my Lord! Got that!

Peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I always wondered why suicide was wrong if someone was suffering so greatly; it didn't make sense to me that we would have compassion on animals and help them end their suffering, but not people. I remember telling someone when I was a witness that I did not think it was necessarily wrong. But then we studied the account of the Amalekite who ended Saul's suffering and how he was put to death for that and I got the idea that it must be a terrible offense. I do think about how I would end it, if that time comes for me.

Please forgive me, dear, dear At (peace to you, dear lady!). I do NOT mean to contend but only to share another POV, given the discussion on the "Noah" thread (as to many JWs not knowing stuff). If that's what you were taught, then someone did you an injustice. The Amalekite was put to death because, thinking he was showing loyalty to DAVID, he bragged about killing Saul... which HE did NOT do at ALL. And so David, who vowed to DEFEND God's throne... and the anointed one who sat on it (which Saul was: the first HUMAN anointed king by JAH)... which is why he fought Goliath. He vowed also to never lay a hand on such one himself... OR let others do so... and so had the Amalekite killed for doing that: slaying, King Saul, an anointed of JAH (which, again, the young man didn't even do!).

Saul committed suicide after he had been critically wounded by the Philistines. He ASKED his armor bearer to finish him off, but that one was SO afraid to do so that HE committed suicide first. Seeing no one to assist him, but not wanted to die at the literal hands of the Philistines, Saul fell on his own sword.

Saul DESERVED to die, because he kept trying to kill DAVID, who the people loved, JAH loved, and so had been anointed in Saul's place. Saul repeatedly tried to thwart that anointing... by killing David. David always defended himself, but NEVER stuck HIS hand out against Saul. David's best friend, Saul's son, Jonathan, was totally against his father's conduct and vowed loyalty to David. That made Saul even madder.

Sadly, because of SAUL's actions, including having a medium conjure up the spirit of Samuel, JAH removed His spirit from Saul. As a result, he fell to the Philistines, as did his sons, including his dear son, David's "brother" (in spirit), Jonathan.
It was a very devastating turn of events for David (especially the death of Jonathan) who was more than willing to wait for Saul to die of natural causes before receiving the throne, than to get it as a result of Saul's demise by sword, even his own.

The Amalekite didn't show mercy to or euthanize Saul, though. He was trying to gain glory and favor from David for himself. He had simply overhead what Saul, in a (very) weakened state (he was gonna die anyway) had asked his armor bearer to do and when that one didn't... and Saul killed himself... took credit for it.

But... his glory seeking backfired: as one professing to have ended the life of an anointed one of JAH... HIS life was ended similarly.

Please... PLEASE... forgive me for sharing this "correction." I am NOT trying to be "right" and show you "wrong," my dear, dear sister. I am only trying to share the truth as to the events. I apologize if it seems otherwise.

The greatest of love and peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

Peace to you too, Shelby.

Thanks for telling the story; I just forgot who was who and exactly what happened. I'm sure that I learned it just as you said as far as who did what; so this one's not the watchtower's fault, but just my bad memory. I remember expressing my concerns about it to my elderette study conductor. I really was kind of devastated to think it a bad thing to do to help others who were dying, or myself, since I didn't see the virtue in suffering just for suffering's sake. Of course, I hope I'm never put in that position.

Oh yes! Amen to this. To your entire post that I took this bit out of, but yes. To see and to realize this... and the truth... it just compels love for Jah and for His Son. Such a beautiful thing to be shown, to hear, and to look forward TO beholding.




Amen, again.


Peace to you all,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

This is going to sound off track - but it isn't.
Robin Williams house was shown on TV a real good overall
aerial overhead view of the whole property and what struck me
was it was a huge house surrounded by concrete. No trees, no grass,
no flowers, no outdoor gardens or foliage , no paths, no fountains,
no place to walk outdoors. Just a huge house and concrete all around.

I just took a walk in the Van Dusen Gardens on 55 acres ,
I have photos I would love to post here, if some one will remind me
how to do that. Gardens and being out in the woods and animals all improve
our mental health, I truly am convinced. Peace

I would love to see those photos. As for posting them, for me, I have only ever been able to post personal photos after I have uploaded them to a site like photobucket. Then I can copy them directly here. I am sure that someone more tech (note that I do not have an 'h' after my name, lol) savvy than me will explain this much more precisely. If it is an image off the internet, then you just need to copy the url, then highlight it and hit the Img tag.


Like so:

[img]insert%20url%20here[/img]

Hope that helps.

Peace to you, Villagegirl, and thank YOU for your wish of peace also.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Which house would that be, dear VG (peace!)?

The one in Tiburon (where he died)... which is a LOVELY enclave FULL of flora AND fauna, ON the SF Bay:

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60 ... f9293d.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60 ... 962dee.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60 ... 20e737.jpg

The one in Napa:

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60 ... d9894a.jpg

San Francisco?

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac60 ... 396f63.jpg


Whichever one, all look like they have more than concrete surrounding them. And... I might be wrong, but folks who live in the more woody areas of the world ALSO get depressed.. and some even commit suicide.

I'm not sure what your "beef" with Mr. Williams, but I have to tell you (and please don't take offense - I'm only sharing another pearl), is sounds a LOT like how Jehovah's Witnesses view things. Just sayin'...

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Van Dusen Gardens!! That means VG lives in Vancouver. All the rain there can be depressing too. Just kidding. I used to live out that way but a bit inland so we didn't get the constant rain.

As far as posting pictures, just find a internet site to host your pictures like Photobucket or post them on
Facebook and just copy the image properties and post them here wrapping the img tag around it. Or you can go to the internet and Google Van Dusen Gardens, then click on images and a bunch of photos will came up. Right click on a picture of the gardens, then click properties and then copy the script that came up and post it here. Here is how the script looks for a picture I chose: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Py3X ... BVancouver

Then I highlighted the script and clicked the img tag and it comes out like this: