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 Post subject: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:56 pm 
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May you all have peace!

As a JW I used to marvel at many of the men's perspective of the women. When I learned (from my Lord), that the "Paulian" POV of women was not HIS POV, I rejoiced. I say "Paulian" because Paul did not personally view women as many, including those of the WTBTS, make it out to be. His POV was that because they are made for child-bearing and so what all comes with that women have weaker vessels, yes, but MENTALLY and SPIRITUALLY... there was no difference between men and women ("There is neither male nor female... for you ALL are ONE, in Christ.")

For reasons based on ROMAN law (and I reiterate this here as it caused quite some debate on another site, but really, women were NOT as well-regarded in ancient Rome as some believe... and child-bearing was a protection against arrest/execution which is why Paul exhorted it)... Paul did what was SAFE for the early congregation and all but "scared" the women into a "proper" place. NOT proper as to God's law... but proper as to ROMAN law... and Jewish tradition.

The condescension, disregard, disdain, and often disrespect I personally faced as a woman among JWs (and, sadly, and to the great detriment of women JWs, often FROM women) may well be one reason why I allowed myself to even question their teachings in the first place. I just could not stomach the "Now, there, there, you little woman," attitude of some men... and the eye-rolling, teeth-sucking sighing of some women. Wanted to smack them ALL. ESPECIALLY the ones who received ALL of their "education" from one or two... okay, three... WTBTS publications that even THEY couldn't coherently explain the contents of. Those, especially, you almost could never tell ANYTHING.

Anyway, this wasn't really supposed to be about my experience... but about the wonderful mental abilities of women. We have biblical accounts of women being judges, slaying the enemy (when a man wouldn't), saving their households, saving others' households, saving their entire tribe, being spoken to by Christ, being called and chosen by Christ... being used by Christ... such that not having the "proper" regard for WOMEN is, IMHO, inexcusable. Christ did not disrespect women but many of his accounts depict him dealing with/helping women. That whole "men are better, little woman" mentally smacks of the dark ages... and the oppression and deceit of lying priests and Pharisees, etc., who considered anybody with a brain... and particularly a woman... to be some kind of threat. So, better to villify them, some even blaming Adham's fall on Eve.

And that mentality still exists today... but, praise JAH, it's most often among religion. BIG surprise there, yes?

What some men AND women don't realize is that knocking down women, individually or in general, contributes to the demise of our societies. When you fail to uplift a girl, you fail to uplift a future mother. When you fail to uplift a mother, you fail to uplift her children. When you fail to uplift children... you potentially sabotage a future generation. Including the next generation of your own household.

I digress.

I recently saw this article... and it made me glad I am a woman:

http://www.nasa.gov/jpl/msl/women-rover ... 7DW_vnxpkA

Dear ones, if you've read the 31st Proverb, you find that a "capable" wife does more than just fry up the bacon. She brings it home, yes. BUT... SOME women... even wives... can raise the pig, slaughter and quarter it, and slice UP the bacon. Others can do that... AND perhaps even MAKE the dang pan they use to fry that bacon IN! LOLOLOL!

To those JW men (and others 'cause they're out there, too) who are threatened by SMART women, I say... check your OWN insecurities! LOLOLOL!

Because smart woman... are NOT the enemy!

Peace!

A slave of Christ, who loves science, too...

Shellamar


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:34 am 
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Amen to that Shelby. Image

I have been reading the book Infidel and Nomad by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Her writings about this very subject are excellent. Worth the read believe me. She is Somali and was raised Muslim and experienced and saw the damage that religion does to women. She wrote her memoirs to share with us the experiences. She now lives in USA and is a advocate for Islam women to be educated. Because of this she has to have a body guard with her all the time because of the death threats.

Her book - It is a great read.
http://www.amazon.com/Infidel-Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali-ebook/dp/B000NY12CI/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1404138808&sr=1-1&keywords=infidel

Even though the Islam religion and way of life is very extreme for women in the Middle east I still see a lot of parallels of it in the JW religion. I think the guys running these religions get their ideas from these ancient religions.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:18 am 
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Quote:
I think the guys running these religions get their ideas from these ancient religions.


Fo' sho'... and at least one other source, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace, luv!): their own VERY frightened... and/or hateful... "hearts"!

I do need a good read (waitin' on a couple'a books from Amazon right now!)... so I will order Ms. Ali's book, thanks for the recommendation! Have you read the one by Carmen Bin Laden, Osama's sister in law? HUGE insight into the Saudi world, girl. VERY enlightening!

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shel


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:58 am 
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No I haven't read that one, never heard of it I will get it right now on Amazon. I use e-books and read them on my ipad. Instant gratification LOL

Shelby you will love Ayann!! Her story and journey away from Islam is just amazing. She was excised female circumcision) when she was around 6 years old. Her little sister was around 3 and done at the same time. She (the sister) got sick and almost died from infection. The cutting is the extreme version in Somalia.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:28 am 
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Ms. Bin Laden's book is entitled, "Inside the Kingdom" (peace, dear Zoe!). Here's an excerpt from an article with interviews of various bin Laden family members (who totally denounced his agenda):

Quote:
But before long there were indications of what was to come. On an evening out in Dubai she was told not to dance with her husband's half brothers. If she did, she would not be ''respected'', she was told. When she moved into her mother-in-law's house in Jeddah, she discovered that the brothers' love of all things Western was kept a strict secret. As a woman she had to be covered at all times in public and was not allowed to leave the house alone. [b]Women were little more than household pets, she says. ''Their bright minds were brainwashed, they were made to feel worthless."


There are a few things that make me shudder. As an African American, I know what this feels like. As a WOMAN... even more. As an African American woman (who grew up two generations or so ago)... even MORE so.

Here's a link to an interview, as a result of her other book, "The Veiled Kingdom" (which I have yet to read but only because I didn't know of it - will order it TODAY):

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/j ... andsociety

I just don't have the patience for some's view of women, ESPECIALLY those who claim to be "christian." Not only does it not make any REAL sense, not only it is hateful, not only does it deny Christ... but IT IS STUPID. And I have no tolerance (though, my Lord knows I try!)... for stupidity. MOTHERS... and we ALL have them, came FROM them... are women. What, then, does that say about YOU (whoever disregards women)? Stupid to disregard/disrespect women... which we all come OUT of. Just... stupid.

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar, who sometimes hates how this links show up in a post... sorry... but if you click the little arrow just to the left of the link, that big honking "g" might disappear. If it's botherin' ya, I mean. Bothered the HECK outta me, so...


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:40 am 
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Thank you for that link, I don't mind the stuff that came up on the screen I found it despite the big G LOL

I have downloaded the sample of the e-book for now on amazon.

Here is the interview she did.



Meet the in-laws

As a sister-in-law of the world's most notorious terrorist, Carmen bin Ladin gained a unique insight into the inner workings of the fabulously wealthy Saudi clan. Here she talks about the culture shock she experienced in Jeddah, her eventual escape back to Switzerland - and how she horrified Osama by appearing bare-faced before him

The Guardian, Monday 12 July 2004

Carmen bin Ladin and her daughters, Wafah, Najia and Noor, are the only Bin Ladins in the western world to be listed in the telephone book. They live in Switzerland, where Carmen grew up and where she fled to 20 years ago from her marriage to Osama's older brother, Yeslam bin Ladin. I am to meet her at a hotel on Lake Geneva today, because she wants to talk about what life was like inside the Bin Laden clan (she differentiates between her immediate family and the wider Bin Ladens by altering the spelling of the name - her only concession to obscurity). For nine years, she lived at the heart of the world's most notorious family and the only way to exorcise this, she believes, is to spill the beans. The Bin Ladens would like her to shut up; but she will not even go ex-directory.
Unsurprisingly, the lives of Bin Ladin and her children have been enormously difficult since September 11. The hotel at which we meet is one of those sinister, international clubhouses for the world's most powerful, where men with earpieces guard the door and the car park is full of Ferraris. We sit on the terrace under a mauve sky and Bin Ladin twitches and jitters, chain smoking ("Does my cigarette disturb you?") and apologising for her English. Her father was Swiss, her mother Iranian and she grew up speaking French in Geneva. When people walk by, she lowers her voice.

Bin Ladin's book, The Veiled Kingdom, is one she would rather not have written, given the hostility it will in all likelihood generate from an already hostile family. But she wanted to explain to her daughters why she fled their father's house and, to the world, why she continues to carry his name. She also, I gather, hopes that the book will do something to alleviate the loneliness of her position; she is at once exiled from the society of her husband and from polite society in the west, where the name Bin Ladin doesn't open many doors. "For 14 years I fought alone. And nobody believed me. I fought the Bin Laden clan in private." This is a plea for her struggle to be recognised.

Carmen Dufour met Yeslam Bin Laden in 1973, when he rented a floor of her mother's house in Geneva for the summer. She was already accustomed to luxury; her mother's family, the Sheibanys, were Persian aristocrats and their life in Switzerland was awash with money. But Yeslam came from a background of quite staggering wealth. He was 24, a little older than she, the 10th son of Sheikh Mohamed bin Laden, one of the wealthiest men in Saudi Arabia. After they married, they moved to Los Angeles to study at the University of Southern California and then, in 1976, Yeslam asked her to return to Jeddah with him, so he could work in the family firm: multi-billion dollar construction company, the Bin Laden Corporation. She reluctantly agreed. "I loved my husband," she says. "That's it."

The life that awaited her in Saudi Arabia was one that her husband tried to prepare her for, but which still came as a shock. They moved to Kilometre Seven, a district of Jeddah where most of Bin Laden Sr's 22 wives, 25 sons and 29 daughters lived. Each wife was referred to by the name of their oldest son, so her mother-in-law was Om Yeslam (in the absence of a son, a mother would take on her daughter's name), a woman who, despite being disappointed that her son had married a westerner, was cautiously welcoming.

Bin Ladin made her first mistake minutes after stepping off the plane, where one of Yeslam's brothers had come to meet her. "Hi, Ibrahim!" she called and wondered why he frowned so, before remembering that women were not permitted to speak to men in public. She would make the same mistake, some time later and to more violent effect, with another of Yeslam's brothers: Osama.

In the meantime, Bin Ladin had some fitting in to do. She writes in the book that adapting to life as a Saudi woman was like undergoing an anaesthetic. "Only the men could come and go as they pleased. We women were confined to the house ... even to go into the garden we had to notify the male employees to vacate the premises." She couldn't go anywhere without a chaperone. "We took no exercise. Walking anywhere was unthinkable. Hotels, sports arenas, theatres, swimming pools, restaurants, if they existed at all, were only for men."

And yet, she says, she had high hopes for the future both of the country and of her marriage; Yeslam was one of the more liberal of the brothers, a fact he had demonstrated while they were engaged by "allowing" her to smoke in front of his brothers. Breaking with custom, he asked her opinion before making decisions and groused to her about the inefficient workings of the family business.

The life she led was subtly superior to that of her sisters-in-law: she didn't wear a veil when travelling by car; she held tennis parties at the house; she smuggled banned books in from trips to Switzerland (the Bin Laden name ensured that her luggage was never searched); and she was permitted by her husband to instruct the carpet-fitters on what she wanted for their front room. (They threw a fit at being spoken to by a woman and went straight to Yeslam, who backed his wife.) She won a major feminist victory by crossing the road unaccompanied. Meanwhile, pineapple chunks were introduced to the kingdom and the first Safeway opened in Jeddah. Things were looking up.

And then she met Osama. He was a student at the King Abdel Aziz University in Jeddah and when she opened the door to him, he freaked out. Her face was uncovered. Osama started flapping his hands and wouldn't come in until she had made herself scarce. She only met him a couple of times after that and while his zealousness was extreme, he did not seem remarkable to her, either within the family or the wider Saudi culture. "He was very religious, but he was not the only one being that religious. He had other brothers who were that religious. Some of the other brothers seemed more westernised, like my husband, but deep down their beliefs were closer to Saudi Arabia than the western world. Deep down this was their way of seeing."

Contrary to her expectations, the country never did liberalise and it wasn't until Bin Ladin had her second child that she began to exhaust her husband's liberal streak. He resented the way she was bringing them up. He told her the children were not permitted to celebrate their birthdays as this was a Christian affectation. He made no attempt to assuage his wife's concerns about what would happen were he to die: in Saudi culture, the widow is bequeathed to her husband's surviving male relatives. They lived in palatial splendour (she cattily remarks in the book that the Bin Ladens have no taste in interior decor, all gold taps and terrible paintings) and it wasn't unusual for Yeslam to give her $50,000 to go out shopping with. But he started to exclude her from his decisions and, after a fall-out with his brothers, he struck out alone and made another fortune - she puts it at $300m - when he set up Saudi Arabia's first brokerage firm. The deranged double life they led wore her out; one weekend she and the girls would be water-skiing in France, the next encased in black cloth, virtual prisoners in their own home.

"There was always a part of me that kept worrying about the future of the girls. I sometimes wonder whether I'd have been so observant if I had had two boys. You see? My main responsibility went to the future of my daughters."

As the marriage disintegrated, she started to think about getting out. "I didn't know any other foreigner who was married to a Saudi who was able to keep her children and bring them up." There was, she says, an underground network that smuggled women out of the country on fake passports, a relatively easy feat given that the men in the passport booths were not permitted to look under a woman's veil to check her appearance.

Luckily, Bin Ladin had kept her Swiss passport and in 1985, on a trip to Geneva, she informed her husband that she had no intention of returning to Saudi. They lived together in Switzerland for a while and had a third daughter, but the marriage was effectively over and in 1994 Carmen started divorce proceedings. They are still going on. She says her husband, who to her horror was given Swiss citizenship, refuses to acknowledge his daughters, financially or emotionally. For a while she kept in touch with some of her sisters-in-law in Saudi, but they have been silent since September 11.

When news of the attacks reached her, Bin Ladin says she thought immediately of her brother-in-law. She hadn't spoken about him with her husband since 1994, when Yeslam told her that Osama was in Sudan. But she had followed his activities in the press, his connection to the first bombing of the World Trade Centre and that of the US embassy in Tanzania. "And when the second plane hit, I knew that their name would be involved."

All of which makes it so strange that she should choose to hang on to the name.

"I discussed it with the girls and we realised very deeply ... we came to the conclusion that unfortunately the name is too well known; that people would just say, 'Oh, in reality she is a Bin Laden, she changed her name.' Like people still talk about Hitler's nephew changing his name. There is no escape. The best thing is to face it and to explain that we are westerners carrying the name. We fought to gain our freedom; the truth always comes out."

After the attacks, the phone more or less stopped ringing. All four of them lost friends. They couldn't get bookings in hotels or restaurants. Some months before the attacks, her oldest daughter, Wafah, had returned to Switzerland from the US where she'd studied law at Columbia University. She decided not to go back. They have visited the States once since then, informing the US embassy in advance so as not to cause panic at immigration when their name was read on their passports.

Wafah is 26 and finding it hard to get work, as is her 24-year-old sister (the youngest is still at school). "It is understandable," says Bin Ladin, "that an employer may worry whether his clients will be offended that he has hired a Bin Laden. The situation is very complicated and I don't know when it is going to clear up. These three girls are trapped. It's a fact they carry a name, it's a fact they have values that don't correspond to that name."

They have been totally rejected by the Bin Laden clan. "When they come to Europe they don't even call. Since 9/11 not even their father has called to see how they are coping with this situation." And she is unconvinced that they have cut off all ties with Osama. "They have never condemned Osama. They have condemned the terrorist act. But they have never admitted any involvement of their brother in those acts. He has sons in Saudi Arabia who work at the organisation. When my mothers-in-law used to speak of him, especially after he had gone to Afghanistan, it was with pure admiration. They respect his faith."

The life Bin Ladin lives in Geneva is not a happy one, but where, she says, can she go? She feels as if she has been fighting for a very long time. She is tired now, but she hopes her resources will outstrip those of her husband and his family.

"You cannot change, you cannot hide, you have to face it. Our only way out is to explain. We stand and this is how we are." She puts her hands over eyes. She is shaking. "I am sorry."


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Bravo Shelby! I don't understand how women in JW land can bear such a treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:35 pm 
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Well, I was thinking that, like many women who bear it, dear ANOMOS (peace to you!), they simply don't know any better/that they don't HAVE to (of course, some DO have to, as their lives may depend on it, but THESE don't). And then my Lord said to me, "No, child. That is NOT the case HERE. HERE... they "endure" it... because they LOVE it. They WANT to be dominated so. It's one of the reasons that harlot is attractive TO them. They don't WANT to think... because they believe that by not doing so they will not be held accountable. They believe they will be able to blame not only the false leaders... but their husbands. And so they WANT to be treated like children as they believe they will not be held accountable as full grown on their own. They are in error."

And then he reminded me of two sets of true statements, the first written by Jeremiah, as to ancient Israel:

"A horrible and shocking thing
has happened in the land:
The prophets prophesy lies,
the priests rule by their own authority,
and my people love it this way
." Jeremiah 5:30, 31

The men... AND the women. The members of the WTBTS LOVE the false prophesies... and self-given authority... of the false prophets who seat themselves in Moses' seat... and on which such treatment of women is founded. It was Jewish TRADITION and ROMAN law... NOT Christ... or the LAW of Christ that brought such views about, both coming NOT from within Israel but from the nations they integrated with (Babylon and Rome).

The second, was from Paul as WHY such women would later succumb to such treatment. It's written several ways, depending on the Bible version. Here, from the NWT:

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." 2 Timothy 3:1-7

The NIV calls these women gullible. The KJV calls them silly. The NLT calls them vulnerable. The Greek word is "gynaikarion" and means "little women" in an insulting kind of way. Which might be why I "hate" their whole "There, there, little woman," attitude/way of addressing women. It's so frickin' condescending... and coming from FALSE prophets, liars, haters, etc., once I understood that is what they were... made it even worse.

I had never experienced anything like it before becoming a JDub... and bucked against it from day one. Eventually, I bent... some... a little (LOL!)... because I wanted to be "obedient." But I would... could... only bend so far. Then I was like, "Seriously, you're gonna teach ME "truth"... and you don't even know what a... whatever it was... is... or don't even understand the flippin' paragraph in this week's study, and so are just gonna throw some "wordiful" mess out there and pretty much dare anyone to disagree with you??"

I did not think that about the leaders because I THOUGHT they were educated (somehow, I thought Franz was a Rhodes Scholar; I learned later, he wasn't). But the oh-so-righteous elders/elderettes... who'd never done anything but clean houses and offices... I just couldn't understand the condescension... OR the disdain for SOME education. I mean, at least enough to understand the words the WTBTS itself used. I mean, besides words like "theocratic," the "Society," and "Armageddon," and "publisher," and "territory" and "Gilead," etc. Words pretty much only they use.

I NEVER saw Christ being condescending toward women in ANY of the readings (but oh, don't they make a big deal over his words to Mary when she told him they'd run out of wine - praise JAH, the "tone" THEY apply to his words is yet another lie), and often saw women well, if not highly regarded by him/JAH.

But because they DON'T have holy spirit... because they DON'T listen to God (but to "Jehovah", who doesn't truly exist... and so, really, they're listening to the men "behind the curtain")... and so don't listen to His SON... but (THINK they listen to Paul)... they are SO off-base in this area.

I can see how, though, if you're an insecure, frightened, haughty man... how such a woman would be desirable. Someone who would never challenge you, question you, disagree with you, etc. I mean, can you imagine what MIGHT have happened if Sapphira had disagreed with Ananais??! They BOTH might have lived. Praise JAH... there was Sarah. Because she stood her ground and faced Abraham down when she saw him allowing Hagar try and undermine what JAH Himself had told her. She was like, "Oh NO ya'll won't! JAH said ISAAC was to be the heir! JAH... said. So, I don't care WHAT you say, Abe, and you KNOW I couldn't care less what that Hagar says: we gon' listen to JAH. I am... and, therefore, YOU are." LOLOLOL!

Of course, Abe tried to NOT listen to Sarah... but he got himself right corrected, didn't he?

If the MOST HOLY One of Israel Himself, JAH of Armies, told His own FRIEND... and the man He PROMISED to make a holy nation out of to listen TO HIS WIFE... where do they get that it's wrong to do so?? Sure, if SHE'S disobeying JAH (notice, I said disobeying JAH... and not disobeying the "elders"... "overseers"... "ministerial servants"... and what all manner of OTHER men, including minor sons... some women must "obey").

But even a wife's obedience to JAH and Christ trumps whatever "loyalty" she thinks she must have for her husband. He's only her head to the extent HE is obedient... and listens... to JAH and Christ. If HE isn't... then how can he demand she be obedient to HIM?

Stupid. Makes absolutely NO sense... if one truly LOOKS at it. And looks... with eyes OF truth.

Sorry. Tangent. Ya'll can tell, this particular topic chaps my hide. I think I mentioned that already, so... well, just stickin' with the truth. It chaps my HIDE.

Don't get me wrong: this doesn't mean that women get to just run roughshod over and be totally disrespectful of men, though, either. To the contrary, we are to treat our brother... and our husbands are our brothers FIRST... as we would want to be treated BY our brothers: with christlike love, respect, regard, honor, etc. Always. So all the nagging, crying, screaming, complaining, disrespecting, putting down, and disobeying "just because", etc., is just as bad.

CHRISTIAN couples have to remember: they are christians FIRST. EVERYTHING else comes after that: husband, wife, mother, father, child, sibling, employee, what have you. If they remember that... and act accordingly... they don't NEED men... and certainly not false prophets... to TELL them how to act/get along with one another. They would KNOW that "to the extent they do it"... to their spouse... they do it to Christ himself. Even if that spouse isn't a christian. Why? Because, in the eyes of JAH and Christ... THEY ARE ONE FLESH.

Okay, okay, enough. I'm done. Really. For now, anyway. I reserve the right to start up again, especially if my dear Lord says to me what he did at the beginning of this post.

Peace... and remember: there is neither Jew nor Greek... male nor female... slave nor freeman. ALL are EQUAL... in Christ.

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with, and a slave (by choice) of Christ,

Shellamar


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:32 am 
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Hah!! This scripture is one of the favorite ones that the JW's used to use when they went publishing from door to door to prove we are in the last days. I remember reading it to people all the time.

Quote:
"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth." 2 Timothy 3:1-7


BUT now I can see it seems to fit the description of The Watchtower!! They are describing themselves when they read it LOL


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:36 am 
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LOLOLOL! One of the things we learned early on, dear Zoe (mornin' and peace to you, dear lady!) is that the very things they say and point the finger as to OTHERS... applies to THEM. For instance, as dear 'Mom (mornin and peace to you, luv!) pointed out (above or elsewhere, I can't remember)... they taught us things as applying to others, say the RCC... but all actually applies to them! For instance, (and this will take this thread in a different direction but we get the point, thus far, yes?)... THEY... more than MOST (but not all)... are (part of) the world. How do we know? We know by the words of our dear Lord:

“These things I have spoken to you, so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be made full. This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you. No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends. You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you. I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master does. But I have called you friends, because I have made known to you all the things I have heard from my Father. You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and keep bearing fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

“These things I command you, that you love one another.
If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you."

Through this, then, I came to understand that the WTBTS is (part of) the world... because (1) we were called OUT of them... (2) they hate us... and (3) ANYONE who hates us... BECAUSE of our relationship with Christ... including and possibly even particularly because of what we SHARE as to him/what he says... even speaking TRUTH... is part of "the world." They make themselves such by means OF their hatred [of us].

And as to ME, as far as I know, it's only those of the WTBTS... and a few others outside of it, but formerly OF it... who "hate" me. In that regard, I have no choice BUT to "see" them as "the world." I don't WANT to view them as such... but they leave NO choice. Either we listen to and put faith in what CHRIST says makes someone "part of the world"... or we ignore HIM.

But it's not surprising that such folks exist, because he also said:

"Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. But they will do all these things against you on account of MY name, because they do not know the One who sent me."

That name that they persecute us "on account OF"... is JAHESHUA. NOT "Jesus." If I/we used "Jesus"... we would make all KINDS of "friends." But those who do persecute us won't have the excuses they might think they have. For instance, things like "Christ's name is 'Jesus'"... "We serve 'Jehovah'"... "I don't know JAH/JAHESHUA" won't work. Nor will "Well, I didn't hear him say that to ME!" And even worse for those who DID know the name JAHESHUA. Why? Because:

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin. But now they have no excuse for their sin.

Which is not good. Because:

"Whoever hates me also hates my Father. If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have both seen me and hated me as well as my Father. But this happened in order to fulfill the word written in their Law: ‘They hated me without cause.’ When the helper comes that I will send you from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which comes from the Father, it will bear witness about me; and you, in turn, are to bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning."

And so, as Paul wrote, there will be those who WERE "among" us, but go out. And in doing so, "speak abusively" of us. What they overlook/forget is, as my dear Lord said:

"To the extent you did it to the least one of these, MY brothers, you did it to ME."

Those brothers include all of Israel, but PRIMARILY... those who do the will of JAH. As that will is made known to THEM... by Christ. Matthew 12:46-50

So, whoever "hates" US... hates HIM. Which is why WE must be careful of our OWN hearts. Because what might be hidden from MAN... is NOT hidden from JAH and Christ. And made be made known BY them. And if he has actually come to one... and made his TRUE name known to them... they have even less excuse to persecute us than those who do so just because they THINK they know him (but truly do not - because how can you truly KNOW someone, yet NOT know their true NAME?):

“I have said these things to you so that you may not be stumbled. Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you. I did not tell you these things at first, because I was with you. " John 16:1-4

ALL who hate the members of the Body of Christ... whether they know the true names of God and Christ... or just think they do... constitute themselves as part of the world. Even (and in some instances, particularly) JWs, as I shared with one or two "elders." Because my next door neighbors, the people on my street, those I work with/attend school with, etc., do not hate me. They may not particularly LIKE me... but they don't HATE me. The only ones I know of that hate me... because of how they TREAT(ED) me... due to my relationship with Christ... including speaking TRUTH... are those I associated with as JWs or after (i.e., perhaps in person, perhaps on other forums, etc.).

[Well, there was this one girl, about 30 years ago... who literally said she hated me, but when I asked her why, she said screamed, in a weird voice, "I don't KNOW!" Er, wha...?? I knew, though: it was because when I was at her house last for a domino party... and she and others started loading syringes at the kitchen sink to do drugs and I was like, "Oh, no... no, no, no... I have GOTS T'GO!" she felt like I was judging her. I wasn't. That I thought I was better. I didn't. I was actually just terrified. I mean, I didn't care one wit what THEY were doing - I just didn't want them to try and get ME to do it. I had done drugs as a young(er) person, but stopped at needles, as needle drugs terrified me {{{shudder}}}. Ironically, I use needles 2-4 times a day now! I do marvel about that from time to time - LOLOL! I digress.]

People can and will hate us for a number of things. And contrary to what the world teaches, we SHOULDN'T seek to be spoken well of by everyone:

Woe whenever all men speak well of you, for this is what their forefathers did to the false prophets. “But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you, to bless those cursing you, to pray for those who are insulting you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your outer garment, do not withhold the inner garment either. Give to everyone asking you,+ and from the one taking your things away, do not ask them back."

So, personally, it does NOT make me concerned that the WTBTS/it's members hate ME. Because I've done nothing to THEM... except share the truth. If that's why they hate me... then so be it. They are simply fulfilling my Lord's words as to them. As are all who hate us for doing the will of JAH and Christ... which includes speaking truth... as you cannot have love... WITHOUT truth.

Because lies... do not originate with JAH, Who IS love... but with our Adversary, the father... or GENERATOR.. OF lies.

I hope this helps. I hope it also motivates any with ears to hear to try and grasp what the Spirit says about these things. So that we can know who it is we must pray FOR... as well as those who don't have ears but wish them to hear when the Spirit and his Bride say to THEM:

"Come! Take LIFE's 'water'... the holy spirit and so life blood, breath, and seed of JAH, the MOST HOLY One of Israel... which 'water' is poured out from the innermost parts OF the Life... and the TRUTH... whose mouth ALWAYS speaks truth... FREE!" Proverbs 8:4-7

Peace to you, ALL!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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 Post subject: Re: The "Weaker" Sex
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm
Posts: 2461
Amen my sister to everything you have shared.

Peace and love to you and your entire household, your sister and fellow slave of our Lord Jaheshua MischaJah, who is The Truth...Kim /:)


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