xjwsforChrist

A new law is under preparation: One year imprisonment and 3 years deprivation of civil rights! So the regime is stealing the money of the honest taxpayers by the billions and licks the a***s of the capitalists by reducing their taxes and closes the eyes when they steal billions, but will punish the poor street vendor who works extra hours trying to make a small extra income-as the salary he receives, thanks to the regime, doesn't even suffice to pay the heavy taxes and utilities = outright theft from the regime and the capitalists-in order to buy some bread and milk for his children.

Your days are counted b******s! Less than a month till we will fix you! Death penalty or life imprisonment/deprivation of your civil rights? How should a dog (oh sorry to our best friends for the comparison-I shouldn't use that word for subhumans) be treated? That's what we have to think now...

Not that it matters (peace, dear ANOMOS!), but is street vending illegal, or is it legal but some are not doing it legally (i.e., obtaining permits/licenses, paying resale fees/local taxes, reporting income, procuring health permits, etc.)? If the latter, I realize some if not all of those can be expensive, even financially unattainable for some, so I'm not suggesting anything, luv. I'm just curious. I like to get much of the true picture as possible, when I can.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

99.99% are not doing it legally. The hungry regime demands all your money with dozens of licences even to be legal to s**t. LOL! E.g they demand 10 different papers/surveys to use water for your farm from your own well, which cost a lot of money and then they will not give you the licence. They will demand more and more. Or to repair your house the licence may cost more than the money you will pay for the repair (including VAT for the materials!). Getting a licence for street vending is almost impossible. Most have another job as I already mentioned that does not suffice to cover their basic needs. It is a matter of survival for them. I am against this kind of activity but the regime leaves no other option. Most of these people wouldn't be doing it in a proper democracy. So it is the regime and the puppies to be punished not the street vendors. And they want to punish those you sell futile cheapo products from China for $1-2, which usually are not sold elsewhere, and close the eyes to big chain stores illegal activities.

Oh, tell me about it, dear ANOMOS (peace to you!). I mean, I live in California! You pay for EVERYTHING here... especially the sun... and also the water (especially if it's a view of a body of it!) - LOLOL! You can't do NUTHIN' here without someone wanting a "fee" for it. And on top of your local fees/taxes, you are often subject to county... as well as state... as well as federal taxes! On the same stuff!

But, as a consumer, taxpayer, AND sometimes business person, I also understand it, especially having visited places where NO permits/taxes/fees at all are required... or those that are are embezzled away by corrupt "publics servants," instead of being used for the public good/safety, etc. Makes for a very unsafe "market/trading" environment, IMHO, as there often is no way to hold anyone responsible (financially or otherwise) when someone suffers loss and/or gets hurrt/sick/maimed/killed, etc. Which can be just as devastating, if not more, on family.

But, that's just my POV and, again, I was just curious.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Same here, plus a lot of bribing. The main problem is that these fees/taxes are not used for our benefit, they end in the pockets of greedy capitalist parasites-and I don't need to explain that further. These lazy bastards do nothing more than invent ways to rob our wealth. It is our duty to disobey and put an end to this.

I'm not so sure, luv (peace to you!). I mean, it's we (mankind), after all, who want to have such folks rule over us... isn't it?

"... appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other nations have.”

"But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to JaHVeH. 7 And JaHVeH told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

"Samuel told all the words of JaHVeH to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but JaHVeH will not answer you in that day.”

"But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

"When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before JaHVeH. JaHVeH answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

1 Samuel 8:5-22


So, I mean, well... why all the surprise, shock, and disappointment? One thing about JAH: one WILL receive what one asks for from Him. Sooner... or later. In which case, I'm thinkin' one should perhaps use a little care as to what one's ask FOR.

And while some will say, "Well, I didn't ask for THAT..." two things to keep in mind:

1. That one doesn't REMEMBER/RECALL asking for something doesn't necessarily mean the request won't be granted (Matthew 25:34, 37-39);

2. The requests of the HEART... are JUST as important... and heard... perhaps even MORE so... than requests made with the mouth/pen (Nehemiah 2:1-9; Romans 8:26); and

3. Sometimes our requests have an affect, even serious consequences, perhaps even far-reaching, on others (Matthew 27:19-25; Acts 2:39


Things are as they are, dear one. And not by accident.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Their fall is fast approaching. The mafia regime has decided to revoke the licences of those who sell in the markets if they do not pay off their taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine that? How will you pay your debt if you don't work? And also licenses will now be given by lottery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The gallows must be prepared for the end of the month!

I'm not sure I understand, dear ANOMOS (mornin' and peace to you!). Are the taxes disproportionate, maybe even unconscionable? Otherwise, I don't understand the problem. While i am totally against unfair/arbitrary taxing, I am a person who is not against FAIR/NECESSARY taxing. I mean, how else will a nation's health and safety, etc., be maintained? How will those who are less fortunate be cared for? We cannot look solely to the rich to support everyone else. Sure, maybe they should pay a larger share than those with less, but is it fair to tax the rich and NOT those with less? And surely you don't think NO ONE should be taxed. I mean, it would be wonderful, ideal, yes, if everyone just OFFERED to step up and pay to, say, handle their trash and sewer needs, maintain the roads and bridges themselves, pump their own water, and provide their own heating and electricity sources.

But not only will everyone NOT step up, but most can't afford to. So how are such things to be paid for? Who's gonna pay the street cleaner to pick up all the trash left BY vendors/their customers each day? Who's gonna pay the guy who has to unclog the sewer when the trash left by these is washed into it? Who's gonna pay the guys who make the streets the "street" vendors set up on?

Who's gonna pay the courts when someone has to bring a suit against a street vendor... or ANY merchant... due to harm resulting from a bad product sold BY a street vendor (or ANY merchant)? Should not street vendors... or ANYONE conducting business... be required to carry insurance IN CASE someone IS harmed? If not, who PAYS when someone is harmed? The "poor" vendor? The government? If the government, where does the money come from for the government TO pay? If the government doesn't pay, who pays the doctor/nurse when, say, someone is poisoned (by food bought from a vendor/merchant... or, say, burned in a fire caused by a defective item bought from a vendor/merchant... or, say, even killed as a result of a product/item bought from a vendor/merchant? Or maybe cheated by a vendor/merchant (paying for a product/item that doesn't produce/perform as promised)?

I am not sure if your issue is with taxing in general, or that simply because people (street vendors) can't AFFORD the particular taxes they shouldn't BE taxed (in your opinion). I could not agree with either, though. Rather, if a person cannot/does not choose a trade that affords him the ability to pay his/her bills, then my position is (1) he/she may need to change his/her trade... which MIGHT include needing to get/extend his/her education... which may not necessarily need to be formal but could just involve listening and learning from others, self-education through reading/research, etc.; or (2) he/she MIGHT have to have more than one... or even two... occupations; or (3) he/she might need to downsize their life and live more within their means.

This does not include the elderly, infirm, or disabled, of course, but certainly includes those with children, at least for those for whom having children is a choice (it isn't always, at least for women).

But for MOST, it's a about counting costs... FIRST... yes? I mean, before one even goes INTO business, even street vending, one considers the cost and whether one can afford it? And one also considers that there are going to be "good seasons"... where more than just taxes can be paid, and "bad seasons", where it may be a struggle to buy food, let alone pay some tax. Yes?

So, again, I'm not sure of your issue. I could be wrong but it SEEMS like you don't think street vendors should BE taxed, at all. And if that's the case, I'm not sure I can agree with that.

Also, depending on how many folks want to BE street vendors... and the amount of space/facilities to ACCOMMODATE that, a lottery MIGHT be the only way to handle things. Do you have information as to how many applicants (for permits, I'm assuming) there are, and how much space is available, and what the facilities (i.e., water, sewer, garbage, etc.) capacities are? Because COULD be things need to be lotterized until other locations/facilities are appointed/constructed to accommodate all those who WANT to street vend.

Unfortunately, you haven't provided very many details. Going on what you HAVE shared, though, I'm just not seeing it. Not from a realistic and practical POV, anyway.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Are you serious to accept a casting of lots system? So you plan your future life, you become a farmer with a licence to sell in the markets and then after 20 years that you have spent in this, and bought equipment you are kicked out! Now over 40 what will you do with the produce of your farm? How will you pay your loans? Let's make it a law then that after every 10 years everyone is fired and lots are cast as to who will take their places. It is total madness.

All these taxes imposed in our country and not only are totally uncostitutional. Because the constitution says that all people should be taxed equally according to their ability. This means that those with low income shouldn't be taxed at all, because their small income either doesn't suffice or barely suffices to maintain them in life. But it is exactly the opposite here in Greece. For example big companies are paying a smaller percentage of their income on taxes!!!!!!!!!!! And under/unemployed people are forced to pay the same taxes and rates for their property with those who make the millions. Imagine that in many cases they are demanded to pay more money on taxes than wht their income is!

In a logical society there should be no taxation offices. The government can print money to cover its needs. Only income should be taxed in proportion to how big it is. The more you make the bigger percentage you should be asked to pay.

Kicking people from their jobs because the facilities do not suffice isn't a solution. The governement has to take care of this problem and fix them. If we reason like you did, then because the hospitals do not suffice for the population, then let us murder the very sick people to empty some beds!

I mean, it's "their" system, dear one (peace to you!). So long as one wants to be a part of it... what can you do? Happens for various licensing all the time here.



See, now, that's the thing, dear ANOMOS: you often omit pertinent details such as this. Per THIS... you/one already HAVE a license. Okay, so say they're now changing their system and you have to re-apply. Again, happens all the time.



But isn't that the case with almost EVERY occupation? All manner of things occur that force one out of business/vocation, including recessions, plant closings/bankruptcy, businesses go out of business/are sold, etc. Who of us is GUARANTEED a job/occupation???



I don't disagree... but, I mean, you are expecting perfect compliance from a system... and the people who create/run it... both of which are imperfect, if not corrupt. You might have a RIGHT to expect compliance... but is that right REALISTIC? I mean, given all the variables?



It is the same here, as well. I'm not sure if you read of it, but one of our wealthiest citizens, Warren Buffet, said that HE paid LESS taxes than his secretary. Now, most wouldn't understand that, but if you understand market economics, you might. He pays less... because his wealth is ON PAPER. It's not "liquid." So, he only pays taxes on his INCOME. Which is considerably less than his wealth, etc. Add to that all of the right-offs he takes... which, by law, he is entirely entitled to do. Add to that, that most of what he does/owns is due to CREDIT... BASED on his paper "wealth"... etc., etc., etc. It is the reason why business... even small business... is SUCH an issue here. And, perhaps, in Greece.



No, I get it. And I DO believe those with more should pay more. BUT... those with more can afford the attorneys to FIGHT paying more. I'm not sure if you also read, some years ago, but the attorney for OJ Simpson said it right when he said, "The color of justice... is green." Surely you know, "He who has the gold... makes the rules." S'always been that way... and under the rule of man, always will be. Why? Because... even the POOR don't want the POOR leading/making rules-laws for them.



And there's the rub. In a "logical" society. Actually, though, I must say that in a society run by man, taxation is absolutely logical... and it would make sense that he who has the gold makes the rules. Unfortunately, those rules will most probably benefit "him," but since "he" has the most to lose... makes sense that the rules would inure to HIS benefit. However, much of what benefits "him" (i.e., roads, hospitals, airports, health departments, military, water, electricity, heat sources, food...) benefit the poor, as well. Not to the same extent, of course, but to SOME extent.

On the other hand, in a RIGHTEOUS society, there would BE no taxation... LOGICALLY... because ALL would give to the greater good. Even those with very little. And we have a biblical example of that: the widow who gave out of her "want." She COULD have said, "Look, I don't have anything TO give, so let those who DO have... give." But she didn't. She gave of what she HAD.

In our society, however, we have both rich AND poor who give... AND rich and poor who do NOT. And we have those of both groups who take, some (of both groups) even feeling ENTITLED to take... WITHOUT giving at all.

How do you penalize the rich for THEIR selfish desires... and not do the same to the poor? Are we to truly believe that ALL poor are merely victims, that NONE are poor of their own choosing (by means of the choices/judgments they've made in their lives)?

Not that I have anything against the poor. But I do know that Christ's view of them is NOT what many believe... and teach. For example, I recently saw a commercial for a charity calling for folks to give to the poor. Their by-line was, "Christ said, 'Give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven.'" But is that what he said... REALLY? Did he truly focus on the poor... while ignoring the wealthy? I think that if one reviewed what he said... and did... as well as knew HIM... one would see that's not entirely accurate. Not even close.



If you believe that, then you really don't understand economics. Because it is TRULY not that easy. Indeed, doing that MIGHT be why your country is in the predicament it is. That's like saying, "I still have money because I still have checks." Number one, just because I write a check doesn't mean I have the funds to cover it. Number TWO... and this is really just simple math, if I write more checks than I have money, eventually my "credibility" will severely decrease. Because, eventually, folks'll figure out my checks aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Third, if I printed MORE checks... or in this case, the government just PRINTED more money... the currency they already have OUT there... will DECREASE IN VALUE, and very significantly.

I mean, I am sure you have seen the results of this, just printing more money, with regard to those countries (many third world) that have done it. If the country doesn't have the funds... or CREDIT (based primarily on their import and GDP)... to BACKUP their currency... then REGARDLESS of the number printed ON it (i.e., $1, $100, $1,000... $1,000,000)... it's just paper. Paper with "pretty" pictures on it... and nothing more. In some instances, the PAPER is worth MORE than the amount PRINTED on it!



Now THAT I have to disagree with. I think income should NOT be taxed. And the U.S. Constitution actually supports that! Rather, it is sales, etc., that should be taxed. The more you BUY, particularly of LUXURY items, the more tax you should pay! Income is how you feed your family. And so, FOOD should NEVER be taxed. Nor should other "necessary" items. Like health-related items, especially preventive care items. Also, a reasonable amount of heat and electricity (in proportion to the size of your household, the region where you live, and usage. Say, maybe the first no. of units are exempt for EVERYONE... or something like that).

Alternatively, everyone... EVERYONE... should be taxed at the same rate. Why? Because, as much as we hate to admit it, there ARE folks out there who will DO less... and ride on the accomplishments of others. And they come in all shapes, sizes... and ethnicities/races/genders. Also, if you have children that YOU can't afford to feed, you should be taxed on that. Seriously. Given the plethora of ways to PREVENT pregnancy... including abstinence... one should not have children that others have to feed. One should count the cost and if one CAN afford to have 12 children, then by all means, one should if one wishes to. On the other hand, if one can only afford two children... or one... then that's all one should HAVE. Unfortunately, folks are not that... ummmmm... kind/thoughtful ("I want a soccer team of kids! What? No, I don't make $20/hour... and no, I don't own a house. I make minimum wage, part-time... and I live on government subsidy. But it's my RIGHT to have as many children as I WANT (and, constitutionally, it is, so...)... so, I'm gonna have 'em! And NO, I can't afford to even give birth to them, but that's the government's problem... not mine. They HAVE to help me! What, do I pay taxes? Of COURSE, I don't - I don't make enough MONEY to pay taxes! With all of the credits, etc., that I can take, I get money BACK every year!").



Well, it's not a GOOD solution, no. The facilities should be expanded to allow EVERYONE to work. Tell me, though, who's to pay for those expanded facilities that would allow everyone to keep working? The government? How, without taxation? The vendors? But then, isn't that a form of taxation? I mean, unless the vendors themselves are going to step up and voluntarily PAY for the expansion. Which isn't likely to occur.

So, tell us, please... how do you see this occurring without money coming from SOMEWHERE? And, it the news reports are correct, Greece's government doesn't HAVE any money. So... please... how could this even occur?





True, the problem might be corrupt politicians, skimming the coffers (if not embezzling large sums)... but who puts those folks in office? Is it not their own "kind"... those WITH money? So, short of bloodshed... or one creating one's own wealth so as to fight these kinds of things (but, then, such folks often end up joining them, no, because, again, now they have to protect THEIR wealth)... what do you suggest?



And you think they don't, luv? Isn't denying folks care, giving them insufficient/lacking care, turning them away, etc., tantamount to murder? I mean, if one CAN help another... SHOULDN'T one? And SHOULDN'T one do so... REGARDLESS of whether they're wealthy... OR poor? Yet, how many people ARE dying... not just in Greece but the world OVER... BECAUSE of a denial/lack of (sufficient) care? Are YOU going to sell all of YOUR belongings... so that such receive the care they need? Or... are you going to justify not doing so on the grounds that you have your own family to feed and care for?

You are angry and upset. I get that. Because it directly effects YOUR life. I get THAT. BUT... perhaps your personal situation is blinding you, just a tad, to the realities of THIS world. I am only trying to help you "see" them... and see that complaining does... what? If you can fix a thing, you fix it. And so there's no need for fear, anxiety, anger, etc. If you CAN'T fix it... then you CAN'T. And there's nothing you can do. And fear... anxiety... anger, etc., won't change that.

I am NOT trying to be cruel, or mean, or uncompassionate. I am a bit of a realist, though, and don't believe in placating folks just for the sake of doing that. That's what man has religion for; to appease his anger, etc. I can only share the truth with you... and sometimes... well, MANY times... the truth isn't all that "pretty." Again, that's why we have religion - to COVER the truth. "Pretty" things up for us. Because often, we can't BEAR the truth.

We also have television, movies, fashion, luxury lifestyles, etc. All of which serve to cover up the truth: the harsh realities of THIS world and its systems. Including that THIS system guarantees us NOTHING... EXCEPT taxes. And, for now, death.

So, I hope you can see that I'm not trying to make you feel bad... or put down your views/you. Nothing of the sort. I'm just trying to help you see how this world WORKS. Which is does AS it does... because it is run by MAN. And, as prophesied, rather than loving his neighbor AS himself, man... for the MOST part... DOMINATES his fellow man.

It just is what it is, luv. It just is what it is. Some, perhaps you... don't see/agree with that... but I think history has pretty much proven it. If we choose to ignore history... who is that on?

I meant you nothing but high regards... and peace... dear, dear ANOMOS.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

And what's wrong with that?

Seriously, with good planning on how you use those money it will not be an issue.

Because something is wrong in your country it diesn't mean that the same should apply all over the world. Quite the opposite.

We do not need to understand economics that have failed. There is no benefit. It is a vicious circle. We need to get rid of them. Capitalism is breathing its last. But you seem to cling to it. Open your eyes and see further ahead. Then you will understand what is the meaning of 1st of May and why all those clashes take place. Whe the parasites are gone there will be plenty of money for everyone.

You mention that income should be taxed equally. But you also mentioned about luxuries being taxed. Here you contradict yourself because that is also a form of tax (indirect tax).

I could be wrong but I don't THINK I'm a capitalist, dear one (peace to you!). I mean, that I understand economics (to a small degree), doesn't mean I agree with man's methods for manipulating markets, etc. Would that we ALL just settled for food, shelter, and the base necessities. But that isn't the world we live in, unfortunately.

And I don't have an issue if money loses its value. The world, however, does... and the poor should... since their ONE dollar/euro/rupee/peso won't buy NEAR as much as the wealthy's five dollars should the value decrease.

And you are absolutely correct that just because something wouldn't work HERE doesn't mean it won't work THERE. EXCEPT maybe money/finances/economics. But that's only because NUMBERS, which money is based on... don't lie.

Although I knew it would be risky engaging you on this matter, I took the risk in the hopes that you be able to postpone your anger if you understood how these things work... and so maybe why it wasn't where YOU are. I hope you know, though, I no more meant to offend YOU than you intended to offend anyone else. We see these things a bit differently and right now they affect us differently to a greater or lesser degree. That we don't see eye to eye, though, shouldn't be cause for offense.

Rather, if one's going to post threads of a political nature, one surely expects to possibly receive different POVs, yes? Because that's the nature, is it not, of topics like that - political or, say, religious. To NOT expect that perhaps someone might have a different POV, even an opposing POV... or to take offense when they do... is sort of, well, certainly NOT inviting discussion.

So I hope you can see your way to forgive any offense I [may have] caused... and just consider the content of what I stated.

As always, peace to you

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

No offfence. As jesus said the kingdom is not far from you.
We shouldn't care to know how economics work, because simply they DO NOT work.
The poor don't care about the value of money because they DON'T have money. When someone is poor his primary concern is to survive. So he gets paid and uses that money to buy food. He doesn't deposit neither invest. No concern to him if the coutry or the banks go bankrupt due to inflation. If there is inflation the next month he will get paid a jigher salary. Of course I am talking about countgries that have a demcratic 'cover' and not regimes like US and most European countries. Oh, I amy be wrong here. Most countries are regimes nowadays.

Call it a Congress, call it a Parliament, call it a cabinet, administration... what have you... one way or another, to some extent... greater or lesser... I would agree they are, dear one, yes! Regardless, as you might agree, they are not a part of my Lord's kingdom. So... what should we expect, really?

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

We do not expect, we fight! More than 1 week now and no vegetables to buy. The strike holds strong as it should. Better without proper food for a couple of weeks than without food for ever. The regime will fall!
The regime tried to trick the people saying that nobody will loose his position and license, as their licence will not have a 3 year period but will be converted to undertemined time of being valid. New law (the lot casting type) will apply to new ones. They thing thay can fool them. Undetermined means that they can revoke it at any time they like. Do you understand the implications? Divide and conquer: They will revoke some licenses because of this and than reason and then a couple of months later other licences for other reasons and so in a few years all will be gone.