xjwsforChrist

CRIMINY SAID

The statement was made: The other sheep will not survive the coming battle of Armageddon unless they draw close to the faithful and discreet slave.



That's how it sticks in my mind but no matter how I tweak various key words into the search engine, I cannot find the quote I am looking for. Does anyone have a thread saved in their files on this?



Much appreciated.

AGUEST SAID

I don't, dear Crim (peace to you, dear one!), but the very thought (in the manner the WTBTS pushes this thinking) makes me cringe. I mean if, for them, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is Christ... then, yes, this is true. If, however, as we all know, it's their "anointed and GB leaders"... then this is a LIE... because:

1. Such a "slave" can't SAVE anyone... FROM anything. None of us can. We can only tell others ABOUT the One can save them (John 6:48-58); and

2. NONE of those who battle at Har-Maggedon survive:

"And I saw [color=#FF8000]three unclean inspired expressions like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty. ... And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Maggedon*[/color]." Revelation 16:13, 14, 16

"Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and[color=#FF8000] he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city*. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them[/color]." Revelation 20:7-9

If you notice, fire "[comes] down out of heaven and [devours] them. NOT "Christ and his army comes and kills them all". That's because the war at Har-Mageddon is GOD'S war, NOT Christ's... and is fought by the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... ALONE on His side. He simply breathes... fire upon these. As one would expect from the Greatest... wait for it... Dragon:

"Smoke went up at his nostrils, and fire itself from his mouth kept devouring; coals themselves blazed forth from him." Psalm 18:8

*God's "City," New Jerusalem, "sits" atop the mount of "Zion". In ancient times Meggido ("Tell Meggido" or Har Meggdon) was situated atop a flat mound just below which two great battles were fought (Egypt vs. Canaanite rebels, for which Egypt camped at the foot of the mount before taking it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ ... nd_siege... and Egypt vs. Judea when King Josiah refused to let Egypt pass through on its way to join the Assyrians to war against the Chaldeans - 2 Kings 23:29-30; II Chronicles 35:20-35). As in the first instance, Gog and Magog will "encircle the [camp] of the Holy Ones and beloved city"... just as Egyptian pharaoh Thutmose III did... but this time, they will not take the "City"... because JAH Himself will intervene. Unlike His people Canaan and Judah, they will not have to fight. Isaiah 26:20

Someone should tell them the truth about these things. Then again, they don't want the Truth... or to hear it... so they probably won't listen. Ah, well... too bad, too bad...

Again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

CRIMINY SAID

Thanks anyway, Aguest. And thank you again for an abundance of other stuff to think about.

Ya'll keep me busy in study.

Actually, The Searcher and Black Sheep from JWN were able to come up with the quote I was looking for.

[w83 8/15 United Fruit Bearers, p.23 par.14]
Just as the anointed “branches” of the “true vine” must remain in union with Christ, the “other sheep” must remain in close union with “the faithful and discreet slave,” Christ’s anointed “brothers.” Only thus can they hope to ‘inherit the Kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world.
_________________

AGUEST SAID





And they are LIARS in this, dear Crim (peace to you!). My apologies for my... mmmmm... "zeal" here, but this a critical issue. Because their teaching is a GROSS misuse of Christ's words recorded at Matthew 25:31-40. First, one must remain in "close" union with "the FDS" (as they use that term) but only "union" with Christ? Sure, right. Second, they only receive the kingdom by remaining in union with "the FDS" (as they understand that term?). NOTHING in those verses speak to remaining in union, close or otherwise, with Christ's anointed brothers. It speaks of how one must TREAT Christ's brothers.

The UNION... must be with Christ:

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the cultivator. Every branch in me not bearing fruit he takes away, and every one bearing fruit he cleans, that it may bear more fruit. YOU are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to YOU. Remain in union with me, and I in union with YOU. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, in the same way neither can YOU, unless YOU remain in union with me. I am the vine, YOU are the branches. [color=#0040FF]He that remains in union with me, and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; because apart from me YOU can do nothing at all. If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned. If YOU remain in union with me and my sayings remain in YOU, ask whatever YOU wish and it will take place for. My Father is glorified in this, that YOU keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. Just as the Father has loved me and I have loved YOU, remain in my love. If YOU observe my commandments, YOU will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love."[/color] John 15:1-10

What commandments? Well, one is:

"Keep doing this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

Doing what? The "thing" they lyingly keep telling those "other sheep" they should NOT be doing:

"He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him." [b]John 6:56

Oh, but that only applies to the "144,000", right? The "little flock" and not the "other sheep"? That's NOT what Christ is recorded to have said:

“And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." John 10:16

"My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them everlasting life..." John 10:27

The OTHER sheep belong to Christ, too - hence, his words, "I HAVE other sheep." Not, "Someone else has some other sheep." Or "They have other sheep." He said HE had other sheep... and that HIS sheep (i.e., ALL of them - the little flock AND other sheep):

1. Listen to HIM
2. Follow HIM
3. Are ONE flock... with ONE shepherd
4. Must be and stay in union with him
5. By eating his flesh and drinking his blood

Because he is the Fine Shepherd who gave his life... on behalf of ALL of his sheep.

The "hired man"... the WTBTS and those like them... can't and don't give their lives on behalf of the sheep, whether of the little flock (Jews, which constitute only TWO tribes of the "sons of Israel" - Revelation 7:5, 8) OR other sheep (which includes those from the "nations" the REST of the tribes "from among the sons of Israel", AS WELL AS "a great crowd from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people" - Revelation 7:4-9; 5:9, 10

By teaching this lie, however, that those other sheep, the Samaritans (Israel) and the non-Israelite nations... should NOT eat from the Tree of Life (Christ, the TRUE Vine)... they are, in essence, "shutting up the kingdom of the heavens before men." Because they are not going in themselves. Matthew 23:13

For those who need it, I hope this helps, truly!

Again, peace to you, all!

A slave of Christ, the Tree [of Life] whose "leaves" (flesh) are FOR the the CURING... OF THE NATIONS... and NOT just the little flock,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

[quote="AGuest whether of the little flock (Jews, which constitute only TWO tribes of the "sons of Israel" - Revelation 7:5, 8) OR other sheep (which includes those from the "nations" the REST of the tribes "from among the sons of Israel", AS WELL AS "a great crowd from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people" - Revelation 7:4-9; 5:9, 10

SA[/quote]

Interesting point YES!!!!

The 144,000 as priests are as you mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8
But the Great crowd is also mentioned as priests in Revelation 5: 9 &10 "THEY sing, You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our god, and they are to rule over (or upon in greek) the earth."

That is why they are able to render sacred service day and night in Jahs temple. Rev 7:15 and also seen in heaven in Revelation 19:1

Love to you all
justmom

TEC SAID

Oh... thanks for that. I never even saw that.

Peace,
tammy

AGUEST SAID

What dear 'Mom added, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you!) is another feature of the GOOD news (about Christ): that due to Israel's rejection of the king God chose for them, His Son, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... the "Way" into God's "holy nation" of kings and priests, once limited to solely Israel (due to God's promise to Abraham)... by means of a covenant mediated by Moses and the blood of bulls... has been opened to EVERYONE who hears and responds to the call (Revelation 22:17)... no matter their nationality... so that people of ALL nations... starting with 144,000 from Israel first, [i]then including a "great crowd which no MAN is able" from EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people... will make up that kingdom... by means of a covenant mediated by Christ and HIS blood.

ALL of these, who were bought with the blood of the Lamb... and made to be "a kingdom and priests to our God"s.. are [i]before the throne of God... and "render Him SACRED service"... in His kingdom." Contrary to the false teaching of the WTBTS... the "great crowd" not only literally before the throne but are priests. Because ONLY PRIESTS can render SACRED service in God's "temple."

You may have already known this, dear one, but just a refresher for those who might not.

Again, peace to you!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

JUSTMOM SAID

Greetings

This is also the understanding of Romans chapter 11

Because of their rejection of the king Jah chose for them, He has "given them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes so as not to see, ears so as not to hear, down to this very day." Their false step means riches to the world, and their decrease means riches to people of the nations.
Natural branches were broken off (as a result of their rejection of Christ) so that wild branches (the nations) could be grafted in. But be in fear They also, if they do not remain in their lack of faith will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. But a sacred secret is this; Not to be discreet in our own eyes; that a dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of "THE NATIONS" has come in. And in this manner all Israel will be saved.

The vastness of His love and mercy upon ALL of us down to this day
Praise Jah and His son!!!!!

Love justmom

TEC SAID

Thank you both. I have some confusion on this matter (regarding those who are not part of the Body, but who are also invited into the kingdom, perhaps on the basis of what they did do for the 'least of his brothers' or for having the law of love naturally on their hearts, or for giving even a cold glass of water to one of his brothers); confusion as I did previously with Adam and Eve (and do currently with the flood, lol. But I will ask for understanding, and keep asking, and listen for our Lord to explain to me.

I think He has already shown me one thing... that in the resurrection (second one) all come before Him, some to life if their name is written in the lamb's book of life, the rest to judgment. These cannot be His brothers (members of His Body) who had died, because they were all changed at the same time as those still alive when He returned... in the first resurrection. Those who were still alive would not precede those who had 'fallen asleep'.

I will ask Him to help me understand this more, as He did for Adam and Eve... when He decided there was need, and perhaps also when I could hear Him on the matter.

Just wanted to thank you both for the thread.

Peace,

Your sister in Christ,

tammy

JUSTMOM SAID





Yes Dear Tec

In the second resurrection (which is after the 1,000 reign and after gog and magog are destroyed) they are judged as to whether their names are in the lambs book. As you mentioned if they had been part of the bride they would have participated in the "first resurrection" along with those that were alive when Christ returned and "twinkled" "changed" 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

During the 1000 year reign the ones that are alive when Christ returns but that do not receive the first resurrection as part of the "bride" they are judged as either sheep or goats based on how or what they do or did to Christ brothers (cup of cold water/food/ kind deed)etc... they may NEVER have been or understood the covenant or partook of it but were good to the least of His brothers.

Hope this helps further
Love justmom

AGUEST SAID

The two groups are (1) those who rule with Christ as kings and priests, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear, and always glad to be able to share as to these things!)... which is the 144,000 out of the sons of Israel AND a great crowd that no man is able to number out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people; and (2) those such ones rule OVER - the "sheep" who inherit the kingdom due to how they treated Christ's brothers (both spiritually... meaning "he that does the will of my Father" and so show themselves to be his brothers... as well as fleshly and so those who would be considered the "least" of such: fleshly Israel, particularly Jews).

The first (kings/priests) receive life when Christ returns; either by resurrection (the first) or by change.

The second group receives life in this manner:

1. If they are alive when Christ returns and are not of those who "belong" to him by means of a union ratified by his blood by means of being constituted "sheep" (vs. "goats" (Gog)), because of the "good" they did to Christ, by doing good to his brothers from the time he came and left in the flesh... which allows them entry into the kingdom during the 1,000-year co-rule;

2. If they have died when he arrives, and are not of those who belong to him by means of a union ratified by blood by means of having their names written in his book at the time they are resurrected (the second)... by means of the "good" they did to "Christ" (Israel) BEFORE he came in the flesh, and/or put faith in him (and so symbolically "washing their 'robes'" in his blood, because they could not do it literally by that time) when he went to Sheol and told them of the good news while there.

As always, of course, please do ask our Lord so that you may receive from him. And please do share with us what you receive, as "iron sharpens iron", my dear one!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

AGUEST SAID

YES, what dear 'Mom stated... but more concisely, like you, dear tec - LOLOLOL!

Peace to you, both!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA