xjwsforChrist

This cartoon, in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, is the one that prompted the shameless serial-fraudster Charles Taze Russell, the pedophile scamster who founded the Watchtower Cult, to sue the paper for libel:



Since what Russell had boldly attempted to sell at up to a hundred times the going rate for wheat seed was found, by the Department of Agriculture, not only to be far short of "miraculous" but actually to have poorer yield and quality than the cheapest variety of openly available seed, it was indeed audacious of him to try to intimidate and muzzle the newspaper.

His lawsuit failed and he had to pay not only his own costs, but all the court costs and the costs of the Brooklyn Daily Eagle.

When the evil swine died in 1916, the Eagle offered a collection of cuttings about him to be sent out for 1 cent, well below the cost of S&H:



And yet, on that other site, defenders of and apologists for this Spiritual (and literal) Pedophile roam free, to abuse and insult those who expose cult-crime... verily I say, there come be a day of reckoning. I am no meek AlanF who turneth the other cheek. Ye smite me in the foot, and I shall smite thee in the face. All in the best possible agape style, mind you.

__
Focus
("Prominent Bethelite" Class)

I hear you, dear Focus (peace to you!). Thing is, not everyone IN the WTBTS KNOWS about "miracle wheat". Or "Beth Sarim." Or the allegations of pedophilia, molestation, homosexuality, etc. None of this is available in the "Watchtower Library", whether in book form or on DVD. And because of the Borg's early onslaught against the use of the Internet, it wasn't readily available to some coming out over, say, 10-15 years ago (well, we didn't know where to look) and what little information there WAS seemed to fit their description of "apostate literature." Including Ray Franz's books.

Couple that with the WTBTS' heavy attempts to KEEP their members isolated, on a LOCAL level, as well as global level... I'm not sure I can "return evil for evil" when it comes to ALL JWs. SOME deserve the "slap," make no mistake. Most, though, warrant pity.

That's NOT to say one should condone/remain silent as to their TEACHINGS... or even their FAITH in their teachings. But as a former JW (who didn't even swallow ALL of the "kool-aid" but enough of it to hold out to others... and potentially poison THEM), I will never forget how I felt when the Light (that is Christ) came on for ME. I was utterly chagrined... remorseful... and repentant.

Who am I to say that NONE of these would be so, as well, if/when THEY come to understand what they are NOW a part of?

Just a thought. Seem hypocritical to me to give BACK to someone what one takes ISSUE with such one for dishing OUT. Sounds more like revenge than justice.

But that's just me.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Revenge and justice are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, neither is relevant. They are your projections, again.

My motive is exclusively prevention of the spreading of an extremely foul and contagious happiness-destroying, mental-health-destroying, life-destroying disease.

I want to kill it.

I don't care about collateral damage. I leave that to the assorted semi-apologists, do-gooders and so on.

Unfortunately, as time is short, those already in the grip of the disease are uneconomic for me to salvage. I leave them to the followers and assorted do-gooders. Sometimes, after a great deal of effort, some will see the light. Most will not. They want to believe crap, and that is their privilege. To hell with them.

I'm sure do-gooders like you also, in bygone centuries, lamented about the damage done by what we now know as cholera, smallpox, etc, and prayed about it.

All this did sh!t-all to identify and nail the disease.

If you're not part of the solution, kindly make sure you're not part of the problem. Get it? I'm being kind.

But I'm more concerned about being effective than being kind. Repeat until understood.

It may help you to have my image before you while you reply, and stack all your xtian platitudes.



Those who know me in RL tell me that my persona is accurately reflected in such images.

__
Focus
("Math" Class)

Smile. No, I get you, dear one (peace!). Perhaps there is more than one kind of "physician" fighting this "disease"? And each must follow the philosophy of his med school professor. Maybe even if that is oneself. It is not, in my case.

But, please... do "you." Just know that when comments call for it, I will do "me"... as my dear Lord has taught me. No hard feelings, though...

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Older witnesses had access to Russell's books and his books are in
theological libraries and even available by request in public libraries.
I obtained a copy of the Rutherford pamphlet, Millions Now Living Will Never Die
through the Vancouver Public Library research section. That, and Crisis of Conscience
and continuing to research finally freed me.

I also prayed and never gave up an honest search for the actual facts.
Its true many knew of these things but somehow had a mental
disconnect as to their significance.

My trigger was when, in 1990 I read a reference in the WT naming the pamphlet
"Millions Now Living MAY Never Die, and I knew it was a misquote, a
deliberate attempt to cover their own tracks and false prophesies.
That was a stunner for me, since I had the naive idea they would never ever lie.

The claim of some that they stay in because it is a "clean" organization and
promotes good values, is a cover up for their true motives which have to do
with feeling "superior" to others ( we have the truth you don't ) and extreme
laziness and feelings of self satisfaction at never having to develop a real skill
based useful and connected life or educate themselves or serve their actual
communities or do charitable or productive work or to live without judgement
among their own neighbours. The first to ignore you and the first in line
for welfare payments by the State.

The WT in fact produces selfish, spiritually dead, self centred, arrogant
and unfeeling people incapable of facing reality, or working as equal team members,
devoid of social skills and full of hatred and discrimination.
This is the true "work" of the WT. Producing useless people.

Later I discovered that many Christians have a similar agenda as the Governing Body,
claiming that they are channeling Jesus Christ and every thought and opinion
they have is preceded by, "The Lord revealed to me" or "The Lord showed me."
Much like the governing body's claim to exclusive divine revelation, this is used
to establish their own personal beliefs and point of view.

And much like disfellowshipping and shunning, some Christians will require you
to speak a certain way and make a set vocabulary that they believe identifies
you as one of them. And if you refuse to adhere to these verbal games,
you are "marked" and shunned.

Pleasantries are really a control mechanism to invalidate others and
are a veneer for the underlying power structure.

Pat phrases and signature greetings become, religion by rote, covering
a need to control the conversation.
Few and far between, are honest men and women.

That was kind of my point, dear VG (peace to you!): they had access to WTBTS publications, yes. Publications like an old Brooklyn newspaper that EXPOSED Russell, though... maybe no so much. If the only literature they have at their disposal is the very literature that is ENSLAVING them... well... then...

Not much freedom in that, luv.

And why in the world would they go to the public library and look up the WTBTS? EVERYTHING they (were allowed to) read said the WTBTS was "all good." No suspicions to give rise to a library trip.

Of course, there were/are the discrepancies as to what's in the Bible. But (1) publishing your own Bible, (2) having your members read only YOUR literature that EXPLAINS "the Bible", (3) telling them to "Wait on 'Jehovah'", and (4) scaring the hell out of them for NOT waiting... with things like the loss of their friends and family... and Armageddon... might be enough to make ANYONE rethink spending money on a library card.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

In China you have to pay a fee for a library card.
You also have to pay to access the beach in China.



in Canada and the USA and the UK and Europe
there is FREE library system, and all you have to do
is walk in. You simple show them some ID and they
issue you a card, free. Free libraries date back to
1653.

You can also access and read any book in
any university library. In the case of private
libraries in universities, you can read all you want
but to check out the book you will have to be a student
or sometimes there is a community card for a small
fee. This is the only time you will encounter a fee.

The fear that everything outside the wts literature is from the 'world' and so from 'satan' and/or apostate 'lies designed to take their faith away' and so 'lies that will get them killed at armageddon'... is the deterrent.


They trust the wts and fear everything else... even though they live in fear even in the wts, because who would not with that axe hanging over your head?


As for this:



Sure, good advice... else one might get run over by someone trying to be part of the solution. But why be sure that your way to the solution... is correct? And remember what this forum IS. Some people seem to be forgetting from what I am seeing lately. This forum is FOR Christ. Those listening to HIM are going to tout HIS way, and HIS mercy, and HIS love, and HIS forgiveness, and HIS commands.

That does not mean compromising truth (just the opposite in fact); it doesn't mean keeping silent or not speaking out. But I do not understand the surprise or the annoyance that I have seen lately when some receive responses to THEIR way of doing things, if it is not in line with Christ, who taught... bless your enemies, forgive those who sin against you, show mercy to be SHOWN mercy, etc, etc. Unless such ones have forgotten what forum they are participating ON.


You don't have to agree. Just remember what forum you are ON, and participating IN. Or (re)read the introduction and purpose if you are at all unclear.


I say this to anyone who needs to hear it, not singling you out JF.

Peace to you all,
your servant, and a slave of Christ,
tammy

It was rhetorical, dear VG (peace to you!)... tongue in cheek. I started to state "bus fare" but thought that because library cards usually ARE free, it would make the point "better." Sorry, my point was lost on you. But since you seem to want to engage:



I COULD say that not all libraries had this stuff... and not all towns had libraries (given that I know folks from some very small towns), but I think I addressed it enough, above.



I prayed, as well... but I didn't know any of these things...



My first stunner was when they misstated, at a 1994 DC, as to when the "separating work" began (and I heard from my dear Lord that it has not) and I wrote to them about it (just as he directed me and gave me the information to prove it). The second came when the information I sent them was published, almost verbatim, in the 10/15/95 WT. Even, then, I didn't get who... or what... they were. The third came somewhere around my 8-10th (out of 14) JC meetings, as a result of what I was hearing... and from Whom... as I openly professed to them.



That might be the case for SOME... but it certainly wasn't for ME. As to feelings of being "superior" (it was a LACK of self esteem that led me IN)... and I don't think I'm lazy (certainly not mentally or spiritually so)... I was pursuing an education (as I always had, and still do) while among them (my JW at the time husband put a stop to that)... did and do charitable work (always have), among them AND outside of them... have ALWAYS worked productively, indeed, made and make decent wages... and ALWAYS helped my neighbors AND complete strangers (as I do now). And while it's true, I might ignore someone, it's not personal. I ignore a lot of folks. BUT... never on welfare. Did have Section 8 for a brief time when my kids were really small... but have been working, actually, since I was 13.

So... your generalization fails, at least as to ME. And except for the "superiority" and "education" thing, for most JWs that I knew.



Well, now, THAT I agree with. That is one of their agendas, yes. But it doesn't always work, dear lady. SOMETIMES it backfires.



I can't dispute that. All I can say is that I don't know many of these "christians." Except among my culture. Most black "church" women usually give the glory to "Jesus," yes. Having come from where they have, though, they are reluctant to attribute anything success in their lives to their own doing. And I get that. Some christians, though, and you can include me in this group... give such glory to Christ... because it is TRUE - he IS the One who revealed or showed such to them. I am living proof of that.

That you don't believe/receive/accept that is... irrelevant... to be quite honest. Irrelevant for ME... because I didn't come where YOU are and speak such truth; you came where I and others are. So, it's really, well, the epitome of rudeness, wouldn't you, to enter into someone ELSE'S house... and take issue with how they run/live in it? You don't partake of your hosts' hospitality... while putting them down, luv. You have your OWN house to do that in.

But then, again, JWs are FAMOUS for doing THAT: going to people's houses, even showing up unannounced/uninvited... then, judging such folks in their own HOME. You might want to check your baggage to make sure you've emptied it ALL out...



In instances such AS the WTBTS... and others where claims of hearing Christ are MADE... but PROVE false... you are right. In those instances where such claims are TRUE... you are in error. In THOSE cases the goal isn't to establish ANY belief or POV... but only to make others aware that Christ speaks to them, TOO... and they only need LISTEN to hear him. Unfortunately, those seeking to establish THEIR own personal beliefs and point of view... for instance, that Christ does NOT speak (since THEY don't hear him)... don't get this. But that's understandable... since THEY don't HEAR him.

But one CANNOT be a christian, as some CLAIM to be... and deny that Christ SPEAKS. Because HE said he speaks. HE said HIS sheep listen to HIS voice. They can't do that, though, if he can't/doesn't SPEAK.



If they do... beware. Because Christ disfellowshipped... and shunned... no one. Not even Judas Iscariot, whom he KNEW was going to betray him. He didn't treat Judas any different than he did the others... nor did he tell THEM anything ABOUT Judas (and his plans) so that they WOULD. AND... he STILL gave HIS life FOR Judas'. Since it is HIM that we are to imitate, then... well, seems to ME that a true christian would, like Christ, be more concerned with MERCY... than with JUDGMENT.



I am sorry this has happened to you. I've only been marked and shunned for speaking truth. Well, among WTBTS adherents. I was banned from a similar forum for the same... but I cannot lie and say my conduct wasn't the impetus needed to do it.



Interesting. Do you, then, believe Christ's "pleasantries" were such a mechanism? Because HE commanded his disciples to greet those whose houses they entered with a wish for peace. As HE did. What underlying power structure was HE painting a veneer for... and teaching his followers to paint? Because as far as I know, he said we are to be PEACEABLE, MERCIFUL, FORGIVING, and NON-JUDGMENTAL (which many of the above comments from you seem to deny)...



If one needs to them be, ANY phrase and signature greetings can become so. ANYTHING one worships can become their "religion." On the other hand, one can (1) be being obedient to Christ (or their god, whoever that might be) who directs them to use such greetings, and/or (2) be subject to certain valid and verifiable neural and/or other conditions that make saying the same things necessary, if not comforting. My older sister, for instance, was an autistic savant... and she OFTEN said pat phrases, greetings, and other things by rote. Even ad nauseum. Whether she was in a conversation or not. So what?



Yes, but we ARE out here, dear one. A remnant, maybe, yes. Be we are out here. One may not be able to tell right away, though, but perhaps might need to spend a little time to get to know what a TRULY honest person... sounds... like. May I suggest you start with Christ, the Truth? Because HIS mouth ALWAYS speaks what is upright and true. Always. Try as I might, I can never be AS honest as he is... but I can "follow" HIS voice... and root out ANY deceit that is IN me. So, that perhaps he will say of ME, as he did of Nathanthiel:

"Look! An Israelite in whom FOR A CERTAINTY there is NO deceit."

I've given myself over to him... FULLY... to cleanse me... FULLY... so that he can. How 'bout you?

Peace... truly. I want no conflict with you... but I do not lose MY peace if you wish to contend. That's something YOU have to look at, not me. I do not judge you.

YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with, and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Good point, I agree.


Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

"For Christ" ? I am all for Christ, but isn't what is really meant, by that
statement, your narrow personal definition of what is the "correct interpretation"
language and behaviour and doctrine ?

OR does it really mean a broader acceptance of Christianity as it actually exists
on the planet earth today ?

Examples : Do you accept people who follow and or, worship Christ who are
not of your particular denomination or creed ? Like the Eastern Orthodox Christian
Church ? Or Catholics ? Or Seventh Day Adventists ? Or Messianic Jews ? Quakers ?

Do you accept NON -Trinitarians like: Swedenborgianism ? Christian Science ? Unitarians ?
Oneness Pentecostalism ? Latter day Saints ? or Esoteric Christianity ?

Do you accept Sacred Name groups ? Stone Campbell Restoration Movement ?
Sabbath Keeping Groups ? Church of the East ?

I love it. Brilliant. Until Learned.

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

AGuest - Library cards are no "usually free" They are ALWAYS free
thats why its called a PUBLIC library. Its like a Public School. Free.
Libraries are run by the government, like schools are.

Any child that went to Elementary School had access to the
school library and later the High School Library.

All Libraries are connected in a system.
You go to the Librarian and ask for a book or information on a subject
and the Librarian can contact other larger libraries ( if you live in a small town )
then the book is sent to the local library. Its called an Inter-Library Loan.

Any town with a Post Office and a City Hall has
a Library. All libraries are connected to the Library system.

I have the distinct feeling you were never in your local library.
You can get books on the History of Religion, History of Art ( lots of pictures)
Lots of Science books, Books on how to do anything you can imagine.
The Internet is not the best source of information if you never learned
how to research in a library since the search tools in browsers are based
on library systems.

Everything is available to Americans. Its right there. Witness or not.

Example: I meet people who grew up in California in the 60's and they
tell me " I never had the opportunity to go to college" Really ?

College in the State of California was FREE in the 60's. Community College
was practically free up through the 80's and now only costs $47 a unit.

All you have to do is walk in the door and say " I want to to go to college"
Look at the Catalog of Courses ( now available on-line) then pick out
your classes day or evening, and show up and participate and get your degree.
Counseling is also FREE, the College has free academic counselors to advise
and guide you.

I went through university on my own, as a single mom, paid for it by
work-study and financial aid, no help from parents at all and most
people went that way and a lot of single moms. I was also a witness
at that time.

As far as telling others that Jesus speaks to you, that is fine,
except you cannot judge another Christian because they may more careful
about questioning their own thoughts and not attributing every idea as coming
from Jesus. In fact that makes me nervous because it is like saying, "my relationship
with Jesus is the superior way, the right way and you are missing something."
I have seen "revelations" of people saying Jesus "told" them something that is
completely untrue. Since Jesus does not lie, I can only conclude they are deluded.

You are welcome to worship in any way you see fit. But so I am I.
Instructing me in what I "lack" is unnecessary, since don't you think
Jesus is able to do that ?

Yes, ma'am (and peace to you!)... FOR Christ. As opposed to AGAINST Christ. Meaning FOR him.. and so, discussions that put HIM first, where doing so is warranted. Not rock science, I'm sure.



Okay...



Actually, no. I realize that you may have never come across the genuine thing in YOUR life, but we really do try to say what we mean HERE... and mean what we SAY. In line with that whole "let your yes MEAN yes and your no MEAN no"... taught by Christ. You remember that, yes?



Good HEAVENS, NO! It does NOT mean THAT at ALL. A careful read of the forum PURPOSE should help you "see" THAT.



Accept? As fellow human beings? Absolutely! And we would do anything we could for any one of them! Where do you get that we would NOT? Surely, Christ said HIS followers would do so? He also said, though, that not ALL who called him "Lord, Lord"... were, are, or would BE known by him. Yes?



Not in the way you might be thinking... i.e., as members of the Body of Christ... no. Not YET, anyway. But perhaps as SHEEP who do good to Christ's brothers? Certainly! Those can be found in EVERY religion, as well as EVERY walk of life, luv. EVEN... hang onto yer hat... AGNOSTICISM and ATHEISM. Our Lord didn't tell us to reject people just because they don't believe what he has shown US.



Accept? Sure! What would we have against such folks? To each his/her own... and to his/her own master he/she will stand or fall. Thing is... and you are showing this to be true... it is not WE who reject others, but OTHERS (including maybe YOUR dear self) who reject US.

Even so, we have learned that one isn't a christian simply because one says/thinks one is. Because one has chosen to join a religion that claims to be christian. As Christ said:

"YOU did not choose ME; I chose YOU."

That choosing is by means of holy spirit, dear one. So, if one professes to have received holy spirit... WE... REJOICE! Of course, just making the claim doesn't make it so. There will be SOME gift OF the spirit... that manifests that choosing. You know, like Paul wrote about?

We have not opposed you, dear VG. WE opened OUR door to you. YOU came here and began opposing and ridiculing US. Now I don't know WHAT "Christ" you serve (though, it sounds a LOT like the "Jesus" most so-called "christians" serve)... but what you're doing is NOT what our dear Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit has taught US to do. He has taught US not only to be hospitable to those who come into OUR house... but to comport ourselves as HIS servants when we enter into OTHERS. Hence, the wish for peace... and direct command from him when we enter others' homes.

Haven't seen YOU wish anyone HERE peace. Directly... or indirectly. As Christ is recorded to have said, then:

"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord'... but do not DO the thing I SAY?"

Care to explain? I would love to here your take.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel... in spirit AND in flesh... and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

lol, great sense of humor, Shellamar. You almost had me there.

__
Focus
("Hahaha!" Class)