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Question about JW prayers
http://xjwsforchrist.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1659		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Zoe [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Question about JW prayers
I have been out of the "truth" for 30 years so I forget some of the details of their beliefs. This might seem like a silly question but its nagging at me that I don't really know the answer.

I got to thinking about it because my Dad was a congregation servant (overseer) when I was a kid back in the 60's and he used to give extremely long prayers. His public prayers went on and on like he was having a conversation with Jehovah for 5 minutes or more. Sometimes it was embarrassing because he insisted on praying out loud before meals even when we visited relatives who were not JW's. The showy display of ones faith was evident here.

The question that comes to mind now is this; Since JW's pray through Jesus Christ do they think they are telling Christ these things so he can relay it to Jehovah? Do they think Jesus is just a go between but that he doesn't have the power or right to answer the prayers himself??
Author:  JustJoe [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Nope. They pray directly to God "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen". That's the extent of how they view Christ's words about "no one comes to the Father except through me."

Of course, they pay lip service to putting faith in Jesus, but that's all it is. Lip service.
Quote:
w09 5/15 p. 31 par. 13:
Jesus Christ is “the way.” That is, he is the only one through whom it is possible for us to approach God. This is true in the matter of prayer, for only by praying through Jesus do we have the assurance that the Father will give us whatever we may request in harmony with His will. (John 15:16) However, Jesus is “the way” also in a further sense. Sin has alienated mankind from God. (Isa. 59:2) Jesus gave “his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matt. 20:28) As a result, the Bible explains: “The blood of Jesus . . . cleanses us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) The Son has thus opened up the way of reconciliation with God. (Rom. 5:8-10) It is by putting faith in Jesus and obeying him that we can have an approved relationship with God.—John 3:36.
Author:  AGuest [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Although they might say they do, dear Zoe (peace to you, luv!), Jehovahs Witnesses do NOT pray through "Jesus," Christ, or anyone except the WTBTS. They might believe they do because they say they come/came to "Jehovah"... "in Jesus name." If they haven't gone TO Christ... FIRST... though, so as TO go THROUGH him, so as to get HIS permission... to USE his name... then they never got in BEFORE the [face of the] MOST Holy... to begin with. And so they really are only praying to themselves (or some other god).

True, they and many others believe that just by invoking the name of "Jesus" they can pray to the Father. But that's a lie. For one, there really is no "Jesus" - that name is the result of the "lying pen" of the scribes. And so when the time comes and such say "Lord, Lord, did we not do such and so IN YOUR NAME... HE, the SON of God, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH), will say to THEM:

"GET AWAY FROM ME. I... NEVER KNEW... YOU!"

And just because one makes LONG prayers doesn't mean one knows JAH/Christ... or is known BY them. To the contrary, it is a sign to any LISTENING that such one is NOT known (in a GOOD way) to them, as Christ warned (re long prayers AND praying "in public"... or openly, before others). (Matthew 6:1, 5-8).

Of course, they... men... will tell you differently. But who are we to listen to? Them? Or the One about Whom they claim they know? Kind of a no-brainier, IMHO - LOLOL!

Peace to you, dear one!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar
Author:  Zoe [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Well thanks for the answer!! I thought they thought they had to go through Christ (Jesus to them) to reach Jehovah and that they couldn't pray directly to him. Boy did I have that one mixed up.

So the bottom line here is that they think they have a direct line to speak/pray to Jehovah if they say through Jesus?? Right?

What is the way you pray here, do you pray to Christ and not Jehovah? I am obviously getting things confused here.
Author:  JustJoe [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Quote:
So the bottom line here is that they think they have a direct line to speak/pray to Jehovah if they say through Jesus?? Right?

Correct.

Quote:
What is the way you pray here, do you pray to Christ and not Jehovah?

I talk to Christ and pray to the Father. As has been suggested here previously (there's a thread somewhere on this), some ask Christ for permission to approach the Father in prayer. I do that sometimes. Other times, I ask Christ to ask the Father in my behalf. Other times, I ask Christ directly.

JWs do NOT talk to Christ.
Quote:
w10 10/1 pp. 5:
Does the Bible instruct us to pray to Jesus, to Mary, to saints, or to angels? No—only to Jehovah. Consider two reasons why. First, prayer is a form of worship, and the Bible says that worship should go exclusively to Jehovah. (Exodus 20:5) Second, the Bible reveals that he bears the title “Hearer of prayer.” (Psalm 65:2) Although Jehovah delegates generously, this is a responsibility he has never passed on to anyone. He is the God who promises to hear our prayers personally.

w10 10/1 pp. 6,7:
Here is yet another essential aspect of how to pray. Jesus said: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) So Jesus is the means of our approach to the Father, Jehovah. Thus, Jesus told his followers to pray in his name. (John 14:13; 15:16) That does not mean that we should pray to Jesus. Rather, we pray in the name of Jesus, remembering that Jesus is the reason that we are able to approach our perfect and holy Father.


What they fail to take into account, and actually CHANGED the Bible about are Christ's words at John 14:14.
NWT: If you ask anything in my name, I will do it
The Greek says:
ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ με ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου, ἐγὼ ποιήσω.
If anything you ask me in the name of me I will do [it].

WTBTS takes out the first "me" in that sentence. And, they never explained, to my knowledge, why they did this. Not so much as to even offer some early manuscripts as textual proof that the first "me" wasn't in there. A search in the WT Library for the phrase "ask me anything" returns no results, and none of the references to John 14:14 addresses this. Thus, in my mind, it is a blatant taking away of the words of our Lord.
Author:  ataloa [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Yes, that was my understanding when I was in. We prayed directly to Jehovah because he is the 'hearer of prayer' (He reserved that for himself). When we said 'in Jesus name' we were acknowledging that it was only on the basis of his sacrifice that we could now approach God.

I still think the Father is the hearer of prayer - it is just that he might hear it directly from us (after we ask Jaheshua if we can approach) or he might hear it from Jaheshua if we've asked him to approach for us.

I still do not pray very often : ( and have a few things to learn about this.
Author:  ataloa [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
I must stop being so slow to post :)
Interesting, LQ, about John 14:14.
Author:  Zoe [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
Thank you so much, that answers my questions for now. Interesting about how they change the meaning of the scriptures to suit their purposes.
Author:  AGuest [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
I cannot add a single thing to dear LQ's and Ataloa's last comments, dear Zoe (peace to you all!). But I must say that their responses... BOTH... made me jump and cry out "YES!!!" with GREAT joy! So much so, I literally startled dear hubby!! LOLOLOL!

May the undeserved mercy and kindness of OUR God and Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and the love and PEACE of His Son and Christ, OUR dear Lord, Master, Savior, and King... JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJAH)... be upon you ALL and upon your entire households, ESPECIALLY your children... to time indefinite!!

Praise JAH, you people... and KISS HIS SON!!

YOUR servant, sister, and FELLOW slave of Christ,

Shellamar
Author:  OUTLAW [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
.....Long JW Prayers Are a WBT$ Advertisement,a Show of Loyalty to the WBT$..And..
.......................................A Reward Of The SpotLight To The..
................................................Person Praising The WBT$..

Image...Image

........................................Image...OUTLAW
Author:  Justmom [ Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about JW prayers
I talk to Christ and pray to the Father. As has been suggested here previously (there's a thread somewhere on this), some ask Christ for permission to approach the Father in prayer. I do that sometimes. Other times, I ask Christ to ask the Father in my behalf. Other times, I ask Christ directly.


I still think the Father is the hearer of prayer - it is just that he might hear it directly from us (after we ask Jaheshua if we can approach) or he might hear it from Jaheshua if we've asked him to approach for us.


Dear Zoe...

Love and peace to you this day.....

I must add my Amen to what dear LQ and Ataloa have shared!

This is how I myself approach our father Jah through Jaheshua. Sometimes depending on ME, conversation and pleading is just between me and HIM! Other times I ask permission to go to the father and other times I ask that Jaheshua take my prayer to Jah on my behalf.

Thank you everyone for your sharing,
Love your sister and servant of Christ, Kim
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