xjwsforChrist

I found that it does just the opposite, dear Char (peace!... and I know you're gonna say you knew I would disagree with you... and you were right). It was because of that version that I could "see" who and what they TRULY are: their own words and teachings pointed right back to them. I found nothing slanted (and still don't), per se... except (1) their interpretations of what's in it - what certain verses say/mean - and (2) their use/insertion of the name "Jehovah". Otherwise, it's actually less inaccurate than many other versions out there. I actually researched a lot of the sources they reference and have found the concordance to be one of the best. The appendices are largely in error, yes, particularly as to the references to "Jehovah," "Adonai", "Lord/Kyrios," etc., but there's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater there. At least, no more than with any other Bible translation.



To the contrary, it is such a GOOD version... that it's use is not greatly encouraged (at least, not where I'm from) but actually discouraged, in favor of the smaller version (which, again, is one of the worst versions out there). It's contains information and so raises a plethora of questions that most JWs don't know how or want to address. I can see where if, say, one believes in a trinity then, yes, perhaps it might serve to undermine that belief... but not much else.

As for mesmerizing JWs, I truly can't see how: the large version is used so LITTLE... in comparison to the smaller version, which is almost viewed as a sacred item itself. That one (the smaller one) is viewed as most view bibles: sacred, holy books that can even be placed face down, dropped, or thrown away (some also view WTs/Awakes this way, too, and so stockpile them in closets and garages). Yet, we're not supposed to have idols.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

YES and YES!!!

It is the one that my Lord used ( the large reference bible) and told me to read the verses, actually the chapters, some books, look at the BOTTOM of the bible, and use the middle cross references.

Look at it and apply it as a MIRROR not a WINDOW. ( they always pat themselves on the back and say how good and faithful THEY ARE compared to all the other false christs/ religions in the world)
They apply everything GOOD to THEM....and everything BAD to the world.

When I began to read without the aid of the publications and allowed Holy Spirit to read and interpret the verses FOR ME, OMG!!! WOW!
How much you can see how it applied to them as apostate Israel/ leaving Jah.
Claiming to still be the true bride and possess the priestly group, to still be faithful to the the covenant and possess all of the ONLY other survivors at Armageddon ( the great crowd)

Man ooh Man did things now make sense!

Just speaking the truth and I'll never forget that part of my life!
Just a share
Justmom

I can only assume that practice varies between congregations, Shelby. In my local congregation, in which I was intimately and very actively involved (to my shame and retrospective horror) the Reference Bible was in use among the majority of the congregation. Of course, all had the smaller NWT too, probably more than one as we were encouraged to carry a spare to give out (and I even did!)

Actually, I think you are in fact agreeing with me on the Refwrence Bible. The actual text is the same NWT translation, after all, but the references and notes are much more in depth. Of course the substance of the text is the Bible, and yet the NWT, large or small, is still the inaccurate slanted NWT. It isn't the substance of the Bible as such that is wrong, it is the way they misuse it and the way they turn the meaning to their own end. Convincing people they are right. That's what's so pernicious, and I believe we think the same on that subject!

Which ALL who consider the Bible the "Word of God" do... with the particular version THEY have THEIR faith in and use, dear Char (peace!). So, in that regard we are in agreement, yes. But I did not get that that's what you meant (wink). If it IS what you meant... that the substance isn't the issue... then, why discard that version and not all versions? Or why keep others and not that one? There is truth AND falsehood in EVERY version.

The only one I would discard is the smaller NWT... and that's because (1) everything in IT is in the larger Reference version... along with a whole lot more (so since I would have to continually refer to the larger one for information (say, when "reasoning" with a JW/exJW), why not just use that one exclusively?); and (2) I don't have to worry what the "missing" verses (shown with lines) state and what the literal translations/transliterations, original languages, codices, manuscriptions, etc., are.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Ah well, no biggie, as they say! If you prefer to believe that we disagree, that's your prerogative and not for me to disillusion you!

Though honesty forces me to submit for your future reflection, just to yourself, if you prefer, that actually we don't really differ, very much. I agree with you that many organisations do slant their interpretations of the Bible, although I personally, in my British environment, do not know of any other that goes door to door promoting their own view, nor whose sole existence is focused on harvesting members even from other types of Christian affiliation. Mormons I suppose do sometimes go door to door, but they're not so much slanting Biblical interpretation as moving right away from emphasis on the Bible and creating their own new Scriptural text. Perhaps in your experience you know of others. I don't, I'm afraid.

Other than that, all in all, I don't think you and I are so far apart, really, on the whole.

Please forgive my saying so... again... dear Char (peace!), but you are contradicting yourself. Again. In this instance because it appears that now the topic has changed: from why the NWT Reference Bible is okay (me)/not so much (you)... and should not (me)/should (you) be tossed out... now to which folks go knocking door-to-door (which wasn't at issue, as far as I knew). In the first instance, I don't think our positions were in agreement but I wasn't losing any sleep over it; I simply stated what I stated which happens to disagree with what you stated. So what?

It really is a matter of personal viewpoint/preference, however... and I don't need anyone else to agree with/have the same viewpoint as mine. I just put it out there in case someone thinks the NWT Reference Bible is a "bad" version, because I think to say THAT is misleading. It really is a VERY good Bible version in spite of the hypocrisy of those who publish it. Their own blindness, however, which led to their creating and publishing such a version has also led them to judge... and possibly condemn... themselves. On the basis of that hypocrisy.

In that light, in order to SEE who they truly ARE... EVERY JW/exJW should, IMHO, have and thoroughly research what's IN the NWT Reference Bible. THEN, perhaps they can begin reviewing/researching other Bible versions. That's not to say that they won't "see" the hypocrisy/falsehood of the WTBTS without using the NWR Reference Bible - many have and do without it. However, while they might be able to see what that organization ISN'T ("a visible representation of the Lord on earth")... they might, by utilizing the NWT Reference Bible... see what and who she IS (a harlotous "golden calf" and daughter of Babylon the Great).

So, while you might be able to summarily dismiss our interchange as a mere petty "disagreement" between two folks, it really is more than that to ME. For me, dear Char, lives are at stake. The lives of my brothers and sisters who are still captive inside that harlot's gates, either technically or literally... or are merely standing just outside of them. Either way, they are in great danger and so MY position is that they deserve the TRUTH... as regards ALL things. So that they can at least be ABLE to make a better decision as to their spiritual lives... than what they are making now. If they WANT to.

I can simply poo-poo them and their beliefs/activities/faith with smug condescension... or I can offer them an altertative to their plight. For ME (which, perhaps is unlike for YOU)... the ONLY alternative is Christ. But these have never truly been told about him. Not really. He's not even in the picture, really, for most of them. I can TELL them about him all day and all night. But I know them... and if I can't SHOW them, in THEIR Bible... then I am merely spouting "empty" words. Their Bible... is the NWT. And so, if I have to KNOW a Bible... in order to be able to SPEAK to any of these about what's IN "the Bible", I would have to know the NWT.

Which takes me back to my position, that while the smaller version is a joke, the larger brown "Reference" version is actually superb, as far as Bible versions go. For "reasoning" with JW/exJws... and, as the record will show... folks like you. I just have to take what I read in IT... and refer to it in whatever other version(s) folks might be using.

So, while I have to say I do admire you brevity with words, I am not so sure I admire your consistent changing of the subject and/or "agreeing"... in order to deflect. It's okay to disagree, Char. Really. That is one thing I DID take away from my having been a JW - that I can... and it's okay... to disagree. Indeed, if everyone agreed with everyone about everything.. well, we might as well have stayed Jehovah's Witnesses, right? Because we'd be so much like them... needing to agree and be agreed WITH... that no one could really tell the difference?

Just sayin'.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes Shelby!

If your going to reason with a Jw or one that is fading away or asking as to how they do twist or misinterpret the Bible, I have found you have to start with the ONE they have been engrained with to trust solely. ( A NWT)
No others usually work as well.
Just as an example you could NOT speak to a Catholic and use the NWT to back up what you were saying for them to put their TRUST IN!
You would have to START at least with a translation that has been approved (approved version) by the Catholics.
And I'm sure the NWT is NOT one of them!

Similar comparisons
Justmom

Justmom, the NWT is by and for JW's, and no-one else, no-one at all, gives it any credence!

@Shelby. Well, there you go. Not to worry.

We'll agree to disagree!;)

Interesting. Wonder who the Book of Mormon is for. Or the Quran. Or the Talmud. The Gemerra. The Mishnah. The Douay-Rheims. The... Catechism. Yet, no indictment of those tomes... or those who put their faith in them. Even though they... and what they produce... are ALL slanted toward the benefit of those who put their faith in them. Most curious.

Just sayin'.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

LOL!

I admire your determination to achieve a disagreement with me, Shelby! Even right down to finding yourself defending the WT, and descending into sheer fantasy as you contrive to equate, in your mind, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, which isn't a Bible at all, nor anything like it, with the Douay-Rheims translation of the Bible, the "Mishnah", which is a Jewish word for oral law (passed down by word of mouth since the time of Moses but published post-Biblically) and the Gemara, which throws light on the Mishnah. Both the Mishnah and the Gemara merely comprise together the Talmud, the latter term encompassing Jewish law. You then flung caution to the wind and threw in the Koran, and even the Book of Mormon for good measure! LOL!

You're quite right! I didn't condemn any of those! Nor did I condemn the Book of Tao, nor the Rig Veda, nor the Kajiki, nor the Nihon-gi, nor yet the Tripitaka or the Tibetan Book of the Dead!

Whyever not? Why wouldn't I compare all these different books with the NWT translation of the Bible? Because the only subject under discussion, and the only subject relevant to the title of this thread, was the convention of Jehovah's Witnesses! That's why!

Well, as you so frequently point out, this is your forum! I suppose you can decide whether you want forum policy to include relevance of post to thread. I was merely assuming that you would want normal forum relevance rules to apply. And in any case, suddenly to veer all the way from Watchtower policies stated at 2013 Conventions all the way to the Koran really seems a step too far to me.

Were you wanting a thread in which to discuss the Koran, Shelby? Did you want one for the Talmud? Or maybe even you'd like one for the Rig Veda? I'll have to pass on most of those, I'm afraid. I don't know enough about any of them. Would you care to discuss Norse gods, perhaps?

Yes I would agree but isn't that the case with most translations. Why there seems to be SO MANY?
Each one doesn't give much credence to the other?...

Each one translated and slanted to support the belief of that particular doctrine??

If not, then why the need for so many when REALLY there is only ONE Lord, ONE Faith and ONE Baptism!?

It's all the same. Just packaged a little differently......

Love
Justmom

No, I don't think that is the case at all, justmom, though I can see that, coming from a world where the only translation available for your own personal use was the NWT, you might reasonably think that.

You see, whilst the abundance of alternative translations increases as new ones come out, each does not supersede the others. None serve a particular denomination or sect as such. They are not manipulated to serve the purpose of one sect deriving from the thoughts, originally, of one man. I'm not talking about the Book of Mormon because I don't think that even pretends to be the Bible, does it?

Admittedly, after the Reformation Protestants decided to abandon some books of the Bible and put them into the Apocrypha instead, but apart from that, all that translators have done, especially in recent times, is to try to come up with translations that will either be more comfortable to modern ears, or that accord with the latest discoveries, (see the Dead Sea Scrolls, such as the discovery then of the existence of the Q document).

Not to mention support their particular belief.

No, dear Char (peace!). I wasn't reaching to disagree with you. I disagreed with you from the start. I did not change that, you did. I brought these other writings into the discussion because, well, for one thing, they are considered "holy" books by those who look them, just as the Bible is by those who look to (their particular versions). I realize that you believe your two years of associating with JWs gave you some kind of a one-of-kind understanding into all that is JW/WTBTS. Unfortunately, though, I think that vast period of education failed you, once again. Really, the NWT is one of the best Bible versions out there. Although one does not have to have been a JW for ANY length of time to know this, having actually been one might give some advantage.

But so that YOU are clear as to why I respond to you as I do, again, it is your hypocrisy. I know, I know... YOU don't see it. Those who engage in it rarely do, though. Else they most probably would cease.

You and I differ in our union with Christ, dear Char. I have learned to look ONLY at him... and so away from ALL others (who stand in his place). You have decided only one such "golden calf" deserves your disdain. While I certainly agree that they DO... I do not agree that they alone... or unique.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

How many times have parents, grandparents bequeathed everything to the evil cult because their own children, grandchildren, are not witnesses or disfellowshipped. We've all read of numerous cases and it's sick. The cult knows exactly what they're doing. They manipulate/drain those people for everything.

I hate religions' freedom to do whatever they wish in this country. I appreciate the right to choose what religion (if any) we follow, join, whatever, but something is radically wrong when they get away with this brainwashing drama and ripping families apart.