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Seriously, now, dear Sab (peace!)... do you TRULY take the dear folks here to be THAT simple-minded? I would be a bit insulted (because it's apparent that, like the WTBTS, you believe you can come up with any old thing and pass it off as truth... and then get indignant when someone says, "Ummmmm, no, sorry, that's NOT what Christ said, taught, did, promised...". I'm not insulted, though, or even concerned... because I know you don't REALLY have a CLUE as to what you believe (because it's changed, once AGAIN - NOW you're a "trinitarian"??? Ho-kayyyyy...).
I feel insulted when you brazenly act as if you can tell me what I believe. All I have seen from you so far is misunderstanding presented as superior understanding. For starters I have been enamored with the idea of a Divine Trinity for over a year now. If you would have paid attention instead of confirming your own bias you'd see the logical evolution of my beliefs. For me, it's been exactly as Proverbs 4:18 says. Simply put you show a consistent lack of ability to understand what I present. This is no fault of mine.
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Like the WTBTS folks - they, too, throw "stuff" out there from time to time... trying to see what will "stick"... then flimsily 'splain it away when it doesn't (meaning, when enough folks get up the courage to finally stop listening).
You're glossing over the fact that it's YOU who claims a direct connection to Christ, not I. My claim is that any human being with faith and determination can come to an accurate understanding of God using Scripture alone. When I come up with a conclusion I feel is complete I present it not as inerrant truth, but as the product of my personal research. You are much closer to the WT framework than I, lets not fool ourselves.
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Interesting. But then, with very few exceptions, so did virtually EVERY other Bible Committee... including those responsible for the Latin Vulgate, Douay-Rheims, Jerusalem Bible, KJV, NIV, NLT, ESV, ASV, RSV, HNV, YLT, RVR, NASB, DBY, WEB... and more. Because every one of THEM states, at 2 Corinthians 3:17 that:
That's not even close to true. There is a difference in bias slipping through the cracks of human error and openly altering core orthodox doctrine by mistranslating Scripture. Please, lets at least make an attempt at a reasonable discussion, AGuest.
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Now, you don't have to take MY word for that; you can look it up yourself, if you care do (I don't have high hopes that you will, of course). But seems some believed this long, long before anything "Arian"-related ever arose. Like during the first century. While the Apostles were still alive. Oh, wait... the APOSTLES believed it, too! Well, at least Simon (Lazarus) and John. Some consider Paul an Apostle, so him, too.
What you say is debatable, the Gospels supersede the Epistles and Christ is greater than Paul. Christ explained the Spirit much better than the 1st century Christians who admitted their own confusion.
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I don't think I'm the one who needs to worry about blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, dear Sab. I know Who that Spirit is... as did Lazarus, John, and Paul. My Lord, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of Son. Unlike your "Elohim"... AND your "Holy Spirit"... HE speaks, Christ the Holy Spirit does... and I hear him. I don't HAVE to guess or speculate... or opine on the basis of my own "gnosis." I don't know anything... and I have openly stated that you and all.
I beg to differ. The Watchtower put quite a deal of effort in subverting the truth about the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. You will have to come to terms with your heresy at some point in your life. I highly suggest not taking that belief with you into the next world. It will burden you there more so than it does in this one.
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Scribe/transcribe/someone who writes down or copies... these are scribes. They might not be any good at their job, lol... and they might allow the lying pen to distort what they are writing or copying... but they are still scribes.
I mean, calling someone a scribe is not giving them honor or anything.
A man is a man, even though he might be a bad man, a deadbeat man, a good man, or whatever description you want to add. A waitress is a waitress. A cook is a cook. Etc.
Yes, you are giving them undue honor by calling them scribes. A scribe is venerable position and requires being chosen by the Spirit of Elohim to do an important work. They played a vital role in safeguarding the truth. They made mistakes and had corruption to deal with yes. Because their position was one of such veneration Jesus called down woe to the scribes who skirted their responsibility. Even one of the 12 Jesus chose was a traitor.
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I'm not sure i know what you mean by mysticism... but Christ IS required to grant eyes that see, and ears that hear. He opened the eyes of the disciples that they might understand what they were reading. Men, on their own, come up with countless interpretations. Sometimes something should be obvious (even though those who want to twist that something will do so, even to themselves). But some things we only THINK we know, and then the Spirit (Christ) comes and explains it to us accurately, opening our eyes and ears to the truth.
Revelation declares it's prophecies to the one's with "ears to hear." This doesn't mean that Scripture is encrypted and must go through some sort of decryption process in order to be understood. All one needs to know are the laws of grammar of the original languages the Scripture is written in to find the truth. That's why the Watchtower uses grammar to change the Bible, because that's the way God allows heretics to operate. They are not allowed to just slice up Scripture however they want, they have to follow a set of rules that God lays down. You must understand this, tec. You are the reason I have stayed here. You have ears that hear, but they are blocked by loud noises from others. It is as if we are in a crowd and I am having a hard time being loud enough.
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Like "Woe to you, scribes" ? (as Christ is written to have said) Or like, "How can you say, 'we are wise for we have the law of the LORD', when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (as is written in the book of the prophet, Jeremiah)
The punishment for such an infraction would most certainly be eternal damnation. So what would be worth risking that for? They would have to be seduced into believing that they would be rewarded for their dark deeds. The Word of God cannot be altered without it being exposed. Darkness can only envelope the light for a time.
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Again, I am not sure what you mean by mysticism.
Any source beyond logic and reason.
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However, I am curious how you know that what you have stated is true?
I have faith that what I said is at least partially true. I cannot attest to it's infallibility, however. My conclusions are based on a grammatical reading of the original language of the Hebrew and Christan Greek Scriptures.
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"You diligently study the scriptures because you think that by them you have life. These are the scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to ME to have Life."
I don't believe that the Scriptures offer salvation, they offer knowledge and understanding of creation. Christ is the one who gives life, of course, which then is used to come to knowledge by study of Scripture. The Scriptures help lead to understanding of Christ, that's why they were written. To help LEAD you to God and his Son.
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True. But we are not told to study the scriptures to have life. We are told to go to Christ, to listen to HIM. God did not say, here is the bible, listen to it. It is my word, my image, my truth, and the life.
Yes, but words are what we use to create the laws of the land which in turn establishes order and society in general. If we turn to anything besides Christ for life, we die. I understand this.
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He said, Listen to My Son. Which Son says that His sheep will hear His voice.
The Father says listen to the Son and the Son says listen to the Spirit. All are the same being.
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The first and only task is to listen to the Son, and that IS what God said to DO.
Yes, the Father said this:
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“This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”
And the Son said this:
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But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
After the Son was baptized the Spirit of God descended from heaven like a dove. In that account we have three separate entities. We have the Father who speaks in the clouds, the Holy Spirit who descends like a dove and the Son who just got done coming up out of the water. The "dove" is that uncredited facilitator I was speaking about. The world generally doesn't understand the vital role the Spirit has played all throughout the ages of mankind. He/she works tirelessly in the background and thinks nothing of prestige or renown. Then the Arian's used that trait against him/her by calling the Spirit of God a tool rather than as person. This came with the nice effect of invalidating the current orthodox Christian framework which just so happened to come with extreme amounts of power. Arianism was a power play, plain and simple. It's a broken theological framework and it doesn't need to be further propagated.
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But what you are saying above, Sab, does not add up. Life is not in the scriptures. The scriptures only point TO the Life, and that Life is Christ.
You seem to be saying that because life is not in the Scriptures that they are effectively obsolete. Christ is the means of salvation and the Spirit is the
teacher as is noted in the above Scripture.
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It really is that simple, Sab. You don't need theologians(of any religious field), and various books or experts to study, you don't need to figure it all out yourself, you don't need to be learned, or even very smart at all. (thank God, lol, at least for me)
You only need Christ. That's it. That's all. So simple, so light, so freeing.
Everything else is a distraction FROM Him.
Faith is dead without works. Once you put faith in Christ you will naturally want to learn and study. Once again you are saying Scripture is obsolete and wholly unnecessary. This is merely a convenient truth.
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Sounds complicated, and sounds like you still need to have an idea of what the Truth actually is first... because knowing the truth (Christ) is the quickest, surest way to recognize a lie. That is how those who belong to Christ and know His voice... will run from the voice of a stranger.
Why don't you join a police force and question people then? Do you realize how many criminals you could catch?
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How do you know that it was a very rare occurrence?
Because I know that the punishment for such a deed would be brutal which would keep many from even thinking about it.
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It is simple Sab. Really, it is. Christ is the Truth. Look to Him. First and foremost, and as you come to hear Him and recognize His voice... then first, foremost, and ONLY.
If it were that simple, it would be easier for you to explain without saying the same thing over and over. Christ IS truth, but how do you glean from his teachings without attending his sermon on the mount? The answer is the Spirit of Truth or the Holy Ghost. A teacher is not an object and if you regard one as such they will not teach you what they know.
-Sab
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