xjwsforChrist

No, I meant all those who argued for centuries as to what belonged in the Bible canon and in what order. The order of the books of the NT are illogical considering when they were written. These councils and synods that did this should be ashamed of the confusion THEY caused and are causing.



Ok, I gotta ask: Exactly how is it that we are supposed to come to Christ? What do we do to come to him?

In your case, Christ came to you. In Paul's case, Christ came to him. To others, Christ came to them and called them. What about the rest of us? How do we come to Christ? If Christ isn't coming to call us, how is it that we're supposed to come to him? No, I'm not being snarky. I truly want to know because I just don't understand this. Beyond prayer and trying to talk to him and trying to listen to him (but not hearing), how is this done?

I did a whole response, dear LQ (peace to you!)... and the system logged me out... and the back button didn't work.

Christ calls ALL of us, luv. ALL of mankind... except maybe those who belong to THEIR father, the Devil. But as he said:

"MANY are called..."

It's late and so rather than try to repost what I did before, I will ask you to do something:

Read the 8th and 9th Chapters of Proverbs. As you do, consider that "Wisdom" is Christ... and the "stupid" woman the Harlot Babylon the Great/religion. Don't be distracted that Wisdom is feminine; both JAH and Christ are male and female (hence, "man"... meaning Adham AND Eve... were made IN their image - "Male AND female, He created them").

Pay VERY close attention to Proverbs 8:4, 6-9... but read ALL of both chapters.

BEFORE you read them... go to JAH, THROUGH Christ... or just directly to Christ... and ask HIM/them to "open" the scriptures here FOR you. MAKE you see their (JAH and Christ's) truth... as well as the truth of the words. Ask Christ to read TO you, so that you don't miss... or misunderstand... anything. Make sure, though, that when you go and ask... that you WANT to know the truth. EVEN if it totally unravels ALL that you THOUGHT you knew... believed... before. Because if not, then there's no point in you even asking.

Do that, read that, and then let's discuss more.

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

I have done what you asked. I can't say they were read TO me, but I did ask for that. What I can say is that I am, once again, amazed. Even here, the invitation to eat the bread and drink the wine is given. Even here is the promise to raise up kings. And viewing the stupid woman as Babylon the Great is interesting, especially Prov 9:17, where she says, "Stolen waters are sweet". She "steals" the life-giving water that only Christ has. I do not know what "food eaten in secret" refers to.

Back to Prov 8:4, 6-9... I am not sure of the point you want me to get. To me, this is saying what I've been feeling for some time:
Christ makes it EASY to be acceptable to him and his Father. Paul makes it very hard. WTBTS makes it very hard. Other religions make it very hard. When Christ said, "my load is light", he meant it.

PI still don't know how to actually come to him. Please, though, tell me what your thoughts were.

BTW, if you think you'll lose your posting, you might want to select it all and copy it to your Windows clipboard just in case. Easy to do: Ctrl-A selects all, Ctrl+C copies it. (You probably already knew that, but just in case...)

She steals, yes, but not LIFE-giving waters. That CAN'T be stolen. What she DOES is SAYS "stolen waters are sweet." In other words, she misleads others to BELIEVE that PARTAKING of what is not THEIRS... what has not been GIVEN to them... is GOOD. NOT bad, NOT wrong, NOT an error. And so, you have life-giving water from Christ, then you have STOLEN "water"... or WORMWOOD... that the STUPID woman SAYS is good! She wants people to believe SHE has GOOD water... but her water is poisoned... because it is "stolen". It is "stolen" because what SAYS she is giving out (AS water)... are things that do NOT belong to HER... but things that belong to CHRIST, the HOLY SPIRIT and are the result of the FRUITS of the (holy) spirit HE pours out, NOT her... and are not HERS to GIVE. And so, what she "STEALS"... are the "gifts" of that spirit, by her claim that SHE has them... and can GIVE them to others!

Two good examples is (1) the WTBTS... and their claim to "appoint" elders, etc., "by holy spirit." And (2) the RCC, that claims to "appoint" in succession... by means of "holy spirit." But their FRUITS... BELIE such claims. Of course, some will say, "Well, the RCC has CHANGED! They don't DO what they USED to!" But those who say this FORGET: a LITTLE leaven ferments the ENTIRE lump. And so, if Pope No. 1 was an imposter... then (1) those who APPOINTED him were imposters... AND... ANY that HE "appointed" are imposters... or others appointed by such imposters... were imposters, too! Or, if Pope 5 was an adulterer and murderer... or those in the "college" who appointed him/others consisted of adulterers and murderers... then EVERY single man/person "appointed" BY them... are IMPOSTERS! Because holy spirit could NOT have been involved in the FIRST "appointment."

You would also include those other "christian" religions who make claims of "speaking in tongues" (only to utter... utter gibberish that NO ONE understands or can interpret)... or charm snakes.... both purportedly by means of holy spirit... which are also LIES.

But back to the discussion at hand...



I will refer again to the WTBTS and RCC to maybe help you "see" what I received from our dear Lord as to what it means. For the WTBTS, it is their internal false teaching that partaking of Christ is an action to be undertaken in SECRET, among just a few... rather than PROCLAIMED to and UNDERTAKEN by ALL. As a result of their false doctrine on this, seeing someone partake is, rather than a COMMON occurrence, treated like some major "hush-hush" event. Some JWs have NEVER seen someone partake of Christ. Even those who do have to do it quietly, virtually "secretly", so as to "not bring attention to themselves." They are SUPPOSED to, however, do so OPENLY and WITHOUT HIDING... NOT so as to bring attention to THEMSELVES... but to the One from WHOM they are eating! But in that harlot, partaking of Christ is NOT encouraged; to the contrary, it is DISCOURAGED... to the point that not only do many not do it, but many who DO... do it at home, out of sight... IN SECRET.

With regard to the RCC, it refers to the INFORMATION that is had been made readily available to certain of its leaders over the millenia... for instance, writings, etc.,... that is not/has not been made available to the general laity. As I told you, my dear Lord once said to me, "All that I tell you IS written...". Per him, SOME of those "writings" are in the possession of the RCC and held in secret vaults in the Vatican and other RCC-related monestaries, etc. Yes, there is some access to some writings, but there are a LOT of writing that absolutely are NOT made available... were not made available, will never be... some (copies) even being destroyed so that they can NEVER be seen (and read). Why? Because they will utterly expose those of "christendom"... ESPECIALLY the RCC (but everyone else, as well!) as the FALSE prophet and FALSE christs they are.



The point was in these chapters and verses are the answers to your questions, dear one. Which were:



Everyone one of those questions was answered in those Chapters. Let me show you, and again, let's assume Christ is "Wisdom":



"Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
“To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.


"She" raises her voice to ALL mankind, luv. Not just me... Paul... or a few others. ALL mankind. Including YOU. "Raising her voice" or calling "aloud", however, is NOT to the PHYSICAL ears... to the man we are on the OUTSIDE... but to the "man" we are on the INSIDE. "Wisdom" is a spirit; hence, "she" calls OUT to the SPIRIT. Unlike the "stupid" woman, whose voice is LOUD, "she"... Wisdom... speaks softly. "In low tones." Some might interpret the Hebrew word "hagah" as "mutters."

Now, you might ask, "Well, why NOT? Why DOESN'T he call out to our PHYSICAL ears, so that we can HEAR him!?" I am given to share with you that, just as those who SAW him and SAW what he did... with their PHYSICAL eyes... STILL did not put faith in... NEITHER did those who HEARD him... when he called out PHYSICALLY:

"On the last and greatest day of the festival, [Jesus] stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the spirit, which those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the spirit had not been given, since [Jesus] had not yet been glorified.

"On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.”

"Others said, “He is the Messiah.”

Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?”

"Thus the people were divided because of [Jesus]. Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him."

And so, just like SEEING (with one's PHYSICAL eyes) is not believing, hearing with one's PHYSICAL ears is not believing. For those who can bring themselves to see... and hear... by SPIRIT... they often eventually see and hear PHYSICALLY, as well!



Well, our dear Lord said:

"No one comes to [Christ] unless the FATHER DRAWS them."

With perhaps one exception (Saul of Tarsus, although I don't know if even then). the Father won't draw one who is disobedient to HIM, however, and HE said:

"This is my son, the beloved; LISTEN TO HIM."


Does the verses in Proverbs deal with that? It does:


"You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.
Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
To the discerning all of them are right;
they are upright to those who have found knowledge.

"Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

“I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
To fear JaHVeH is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.
I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.

"With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.

"I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.

“JaHVeH brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.

"Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

“Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.

For those who find me find life
and receive favor from JaHVeH.
But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me... love death.”


Are you LISTENING, dear one? HEARING... with your SPIRIT... what he, the HOLY Spirit, is SAYING? If so, then read on, in Chapter 9, and LISTEN to... HEAR what he is SAYING there, as well. But by LISTEN... he means DO. JUST so. And NOT "pick and choose" as to what you will obey... and what you WON'T. Love doesn't work that way. Not TRUE love, at least. A FORM of "godly devotion" might do that... but one who loves another does ALL that one asks of them/directs them to do, to the extent what is asked is RIGHTEOUS. And ALL that Christ asks... tells us to do... is righteous. As he said, there is NOTHING crooked or perverse in ANYTHING he asks/directs.





Yes! Neither he NOR the Father require sacrifice; they want OBEDIENCE. Why? Because they're tyrant potentates? NO! Because obedience will save OUR (eternal) lives! THEY don't benefit when we listen to and obey them - WE do!



Sort of. If you FOLLOW Paul, perhaps, yes. Or if you don't understand WHY he wrote what he did. MOST's understanding, though, is based on what MAN says Paul meant... NOT what the very Spirit who called him says he meant. For example, his position of women being saved "through childbirth." At THAT time, though, the laws of ROME protected pregnant women! The Emperor Augustus (Octavian), in his appeal to the WOMEN of Rome, whose love he garnered BEFORE he became emperor... so as to have THEIR support ("if Mama ain't happy, NO ONE is happy... so make the MAMAs happy!")... put law INTO place... PROTECTING pregnant women, as part of the "new" Rome (after Julius Caesar) which promised to revere women! Rome was in TRANSITION, though, from a Republic that scorned women, to one that held them in high esteem. The JEWS, also had little regard for women... and so a woman who did things in public, like praying... COULD have cost entire congregations their lives. Because she would have given the Jews FODDER to turn such women... and their men...OVER to be arrested/convicted/executed for breaking JEWISH law. As you know, Rome CARRIED out sentences BROUGHT by JEWS.

If you follow CHRIST, however, you HAVE to reject some of what Paul wrote simply on the basis that Christ TRUMPS Paul. True, if the laws of the land you live in have ordinances that preclude women from speaking publicly, etc., then we aren't to break such laws. Many of us don't live under such circumstances, though, so Paul's "advice" and "admonitions"... DON'T APPLY. Christ's words, however, ALWAYS apply. WITHOUT exception.




They DO... but that's the very reason they EXIST: to "bind up heavy loads which THEY THEMSELVES are unable to carry"! Remember, our dear Lord told these that they were from THEIR father, OUR adversary. And what is our Adversary here to DO? Was not the word, "WOE, to you... because the Devil has come DOWN to you!"? And does it not say he CAME... "to WAGE WAR with the remaining ones of [the] seed."? Are you not LISTENING, dear one??



YES!! YES!! YES!! No meetings. No field service. No magazine placements. No time counting. No attending mass. No sitting in confessionals. None of those "empty works"!!



We have a saying in the 'hood: ain't nuthin' to it... but to DO it. Just... GO. TO him. You SHOW you are doing that... by DOING what he SAID. And what I just shared with you from Proverbs 8 is a GREAT start. LISTEN to what he said there... what he said to SEEK, PURSUE... INSTEAD of what most seek... pursue.



Yes, thank you! That is one way and there are others. Not sure what happened except I just forgot to "save" as I went. Happens.

Anyway, I hope the above helps... sheds a bit more "light" on this matter, for you. I am more than willing to continue to discussion if you NEED to do so, but I think if you just LISTEN to what he is SAYING, you will get what I'm trying to share with you. Now, I have to say, you have to WANT to get it... WANT to see it. You also might need to "prepare" your heart... so as to receive directly from HIM. Scrutinize yourself, then, if you need to. Look INSIDE. SEE what's "in" there... what COULD be "standing between" you and him... what you might not be acknowledging. You don't have to tell US... but it would be a GOOD thing for you to acknowledge it to HIM... let him know what NEEDS to be "cleansed"... so that he CAN come in... and speak to you even "louder." Whatever is there is between you and him. You should have no fear speaking with HIM about it, though, because (1) he won't judge you... if you are honest and ASK forgiveness, and (2)... he already knows about it. Trust me.

Peace to you, dear, dear LQ... and do not give up or out. KEEP seeking. KEEP asking. KEEP knocking. He WILL open to you! You can trust me on THAT, too!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel